Changed the rules so that you can't cast the "bust" half of boom//bust as if it was only 2 cmc. Kills the Dark-Dweller combo.
Otoh they just printed an instant speed O-Ring (costs 3W) that you can cycle for W, so that's interesting at least. The inclusion of Flash and Cycling more than justifies the extra point of colorless mana in my mind, but yet it still isn't clear that we would want in our deck.
So with the rules change and the giant surge of DS Jund, I really think the Sun & Moon version of this deck is incredibly well positioned in the current meta. Chalice at 1 kills DSJ, as does Blood Moon. DSJ being so good means the decks it preys on like Tron lose power (which is good for us) and meanwhile other decks are running jank like Condemn and more targeted removal to prey on it, which is also good for us. I'm up to 2x Leyline MB because turn 1 discard is verrrrry common these days, and its been pretty sweet. Only comes out against non-red control, aggro, and tron, the latter 2 being played even less and less these days since DSJ is just better.
I also like the cycle lands, especially if they end up printing a boros one. The new instant speed O-ring is interesting, but ultimately I think the 3W cost is prohibitive and the upside of being able to cycle isn't worth it. I almost never find myself not wanting an O-Ring when I draw it.
So now the question is what is the best version of Sun & Moon? Normally I'm all about PW control, but lately I've been running into more and more decks where I wish I had suppression field, so i'm considering switching.
So with the rules change and the giant surge of DS Jund, I really think the Sun & Moon version of this deck is incredibly well positioned in the current meta. Chalice at 1 kills DSJ, as does Blood Moon. DSJ being so good means the decks it preys on like Tron lose power (which is good for us) and meanwhile other decks are running jank like Condemn and more targeted removal to prey on it, which is also good for us. I'm up to 2x Leyline MB because turn 1 discard is verrrrry common these days, and its been pretty sweet. Only comes out against non-red control, aggro, and tron, the latter 2 being played even less and less these days since DSJ is just better.
I also like the cycle lands, especially if they end up printing a boros one. The new instant speed O-ring is interesting, but ultimately I think the 3W cost is prohibitive and the upside of being able to cycle isn't worth it. I almost never find myself not wanting an O-Ring when I draw it.
So now the question is what is the best version of Sun & Moon? Normally I'm all about PW control, but lately I've been running into more and more decks where I wish I had suppression field, so i'm considering switching.
I've adopted the same exact mentality, but I'm still on Sun and Moon, Planeswalker control with Leylines MB. The same exact tea leaves youre reading are what got me to where I'm at. 4-0 last two FNMs now.
Even worse.. we can't even flashback the card Boom//Bust at all with out DD, as it now counts as having a CMC of 8.
Dunno if this kills the landkill deck, or if we perhaps can make due with just flashbacking stone rain and molten rain, and win anyway. But it makes things alot more complicated
Ok... so i went top-8 again... for the 5th time in a row. And for the fifth time in a row i lost in the quarterfinals This time it was against "Titan Breach Valakut", which were the only deck and player i lost against in my ordinary matches.
Tough luck I guess!
I took out the Leylines because I rarely needed them at all. When do I really take out 4 cards (and what cards?) to become "perhaps" a bit safer against say, burn and discard? I still haven't had a single match that I regret not having Leylines in the SB.
Runed Halo does double duty. You can play fewer than 4 (as playing Leylines most often means you want to have it in your starting hand, otherwise it will slow this deck down significantly) and you can choose hard to handle creatures and whatnot.
In a Grixis Matchup yesterday I named Tasigur, which won me the match, cuz all the other beaters would die against Anger of the Gods. I named Lord of Atlantis in a game vs Merfolk, when they had 3 of them on the board...
Crumble to Dust is an awesome card, really. I played it yesterday against Cavern of Souls, so they couldn't cheat their dudes past my Chalices.
Well, to each of their own I guess. But my build is pretty light on wincons, and there were several matches yesterday that I took out my SF and took in my Nahiris and won with them, keeping the opponent low on lands and having chalice on 1 to fill their hand with nonsense. I actually raced Jund one match with Nahiri, as I had a Magus of the Tabernacle in play, blocking Goyfs all the match, until another Tabernacle landed, making my opponent loose half his board presence.
What do you think about running Needle Spires? The deck being light on wincons and all...
I've adopted the same exact mentality, but I'm still on Sun and Moon, Planeswalker control with Leylines MB. The same exact tea leaves youre reading are what got me to where I'm at. 4-0 last two FNMs now.
So far it's been pretty solid, the Stone Rains are in SB for tron, been thinking of swapping them out though since Tron seems to be losing popularity for a bit. Not sure what I would put in their place though.
Edit for new spoiler:
annnnnnnd we just became a tier 1 deck.
The craziest thing is that his -0 emblem is a god damn platinum angel effect on a freaking emblem, which means once it's there the only way to deal with it is to remove gideon, and if we're playing our game right they won't be able to do that. Not sure what he slots in for, but I plan to test him by shaving Gideon Jura, dropping a Chandra, and maybe dropping a nahiri as well.
His biggest drawback, and why WoTC let him into standard, is that he starts at 3 loyalty so if you don't +1 him immediately he is a big giant bolt target. For us, this isn't even close to a problem if we have chalice out so I'm pretty confident he is a definite 3-of at least.
I've also been thinking of swapping my blessed alliance and lightning helix numbers. 2 helix and 3 alliance feels better in a meta filled with goyfs and deaths shadows and tasigurs, especially since you can make them sac a creature and gain 4 life, potentially killing 2 shadows
Holy crap the emblem reads "A Gideon planeswalker". Not "this one". ANY Gideon.
It's a lock, it's a clock, it's an answer. It fits in the troublesome (for us) 3 mana slot. It's really hard to kill if you've got Leyline on the table.
Maro is smiling down upon us. I think the bigger concern for RW players is if some other deck will form around him and use him better than we can. Otherwise we seem to have got a card that connects a lot of pieces together.
To be honest; aside from also having a possible slot into Ad Naus, it seems like it's MOST at home in Sun and Moon. Could be wrong; but its a shell thats naturally built to utilize him.
edit: preordered a playset; I'm doing the SCG event in early May, and dont have much time to fudge around waiting to pick these up at the best price.
I'm not sure if I want more than 2 Gideons in the main deck, but I could be convinced 3 is appropriate. 4 is definitely too much. That said, his +1 is relevant, his first 0 is a clock (which we needed more of) and his second 0 is a great stall. One thing I have noticed in testing so far (via proxies) is that a resolved Gideon and a resolved Nahiri is basically GG. They work really well together, Gideon blanking an attacker and Nahiri threatening to exile the other, both of them also acting as must-answer threats because otherwise the other guy loses/cannot win. Going turn 2 chalice at 1, turn 3 gideon, turn 4 nahiri is a really great curve and very difficult for most modern decks to deal with.
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Path to Exile
3x Anger of the Gods
4x Lightning Helix
4x Spellskite
3x Faith's Shield
2x Ajani, Vengeant
3x Gideon of the Trials
3x Nahiri, the Harbinger
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Heart of Kiran
1x Emrakul, the Aeons torn
I seem to have a tendency to forget about certain matchups sometimes, but most of these cards coordinate well together. I would also consider Eight-and-a-half tails for a possibly more complete lock.
Otoh they just printed an instant speed O-Ring (costs 3W) that you can cycle for W, so that's interesting at least. The inclusion of Flash and Cycling more than justifies the extra point of colorless mana in my mind, but yet it still isn't clear that we would want in our deck.
I also like the cycle lands, especially if they end up printing a boros one. The new instant speed O-ring is interesting, but ultimately I think the 3W cost is prohibitive and the upside of being able to cycle isn't worth it. I almost never find myself not wanting an O-Ring when I draw it.
So now the question is what is the best version of Sun & Moon? Normally I'm all about PW control, but lately I've been running into more and more decks where I wish I had suppression field, so i'm considering switching.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
tl;dr: starting with Amonkhet release, the CMC of boom/bust will be 8 when it's in your graveyard (or anywhere else other than the stack).
It sucks for us, but actually makes the rules of the game a little less wonky.
I've adopted the same exact mentality, but I'm still on Sun and Moon, Planeswalker control with Leylines MB. The same exact tea leaves youre reading are what got me to where I'm at. 4-0 last two FNMs now.
What's your list?
Dunno if this kills the landkill deck, or if we perhaps can make due with just flashbacking stone rain and molten rain, and win anyway. But it makes things alot more complicated
What do you think about running Needle Spires? The deck being light on wincons and all...
Right now this is my list:
4 Blood Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Lightning Helix
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Wrath of God
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Nahiri, The Harbinger
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Gideon Jura
1 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Stasis Snare
2 Leyline of Sanctity
8 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Gemstone Caverns
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Arid Mesa
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Runed Halo
3 Stone Rain
2 Boil
2 Stony Silence
3 Rest in Peace
1 Leyline of Sanctity
So far it's been pretty solid, the Stone Rains are in SB for tron, been thinking of swapping them out though since Tron seems to be losing popularity for a bit. Not sure what I would put in their place though.
Edit for new spoiler:
annnnnnnd we just became a tier 1 deck.
The craziest thing is that his -0 emblem is a god damn platinum angel effect on a freaking emblem, which means once it's there the only way to deal with it is to remove gideon, and if we're playing our game right they won't be able to do that. Not sure what he slots in for, but I plan to test him by shaving Gideon Jura, dropping a Chandra, and maybe dropping a nahiri as well.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
That's a phenomenal add for this deck. I'm hyped.
I've also been thinking of swapping my blessed alliance and lightning helix numbers. 2 helix and 3 alliance feels better in a meta filled with goyfs and deaths shadows and tasigurs, especially since you can make them sac a creature and gain 4 life, potentially killing 2 shadows
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
But I'm thinking its such a solid card that I may bite just to have it early.
It's a lock, it's a clock, it's an answer. It fits in the troublesome (for us) 3 mana slot. It's really hard to kill if you've got Leyline on the table.
Maro is smiling down upon us. I think the bigger concern for RW players is if some other deck will form around him and use him better than we can. Otherwise we seem to have got a card that connects a lot of pieces together.
edit: preordered a playset; I'm doing the SCG event in early May, and dont have much time to fudge around waiting to pick these up at the best price.
3 Restoration Angel
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Path to Exile
4 Blessed Alliance
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Blood Moon
2 Wrath of God
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Gideon Jura
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
4 Temple of Triumph
9 Plains
2 Journey to Nowhere
2 Stony Silence
3 Rest in Peace
1 Wrath of God
3 Crumble to Dust
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
I'm already thinking about cutting 1 each of Chalice of the Void, Anger of the Gods and Blessed Alliance to put 3 Lightning Helix in.
BUWAd NauseamBUW-CRAffinityCR-GWBCounters CompanyGWB-BRGDredgeBRG-CWEldrazi and TaxesCW-CEldrazi TronC-BRGJund ShiftBRG-BRGJundBRG-CLantern ControlC-UTronU-RWGNaya BurnRWG-RUStormRU-UTaking TurnsU
CEldraziC
RBMizzix of the IzmagnusRB-UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
4 Blood Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Nahiri, The Harbinger
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Gideon of the Trials
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Stasis Snare
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Lightning Helix
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Wrath of God
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
23 Lands
2 Crumble to Dust
2 Lightning Helix
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Boil
2 Stony Silence
3 Rest in Peace
1 Leyline of Sanctity
I'm not sure if I want more than 2 Gideons in the main deck, but I could be convinced 3 is appropriate. 4 is definitely too much. That said, his +1 is relevant, his first 0 is a clock (which we needed more of) and his second 0 is a great stall. One thing I have noticed in testing so far (via proxies) is that a resolved Gideon and a resolved Nahiri is basically GG. They work really well together, Gideon blanking an attacker and Nahiri threatening to exile the other, both of them also acting as must-answer threats because otherwise the other guy loses/cannot win. Going turn 2 chalice at 1, turn 3 gideon, turn 4 nahiri is a really great curve and very difficult for most modern decks to deal with.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Oh right I forgot about SF. You still going to run the Landkill list since they changed the way fuse cards work?
What would you replace Path with?
I could put in SSG to get some mana acceleration.
BUWAd NauseamBUW-CRAffinityCR-GWBCounters CompanyGWB-BRGDredgeBRG-CWEldrazi and TaxesCW-CEldrazi TronC-BRGJund ShiftBRG-BRGJundBRG-CLantern ControlC-UTronU-RWGNaya BurnRWG-RUStormRU-UTaking TurnsU
CEldraziC
RBMizzix of the IzmagnusRB-UBRNekusar, the MindrazerUBR
He's good.
Curving Gideon into Ajani or Nahiri or a wrath is a MUST answer. It's awesome. Add leylines for extra protection and its really, really good.
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Path to Exile
3x Anger of the Gods
4x Lightning Helix
4x Spellskite
3x Faith's Shield
2x Ajani, Vengeant
3x Gideon of the Trials
3x Nahiri, the Harbinger
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3x Heart of Kiran
1x Emrakul, the Aeons torn
I seem to have a tendency to forget about certain matchups sometimes, but most of these cards coordinate well together. I would also consider Eight-and-a-half tails for a possibly more complete lock.