Was referred here from the main forum in a thread I made on Sunscour. I think Sunscour is pretty well positioned right now, and I'm looking at RW ways to take advantage of it. Right now I've identified a discard engine of Sunscour/Nahiri/Shining Shoal. They all pitch to each other when they're bad, and they're all strong removal.
In addition to this, you can fuel having cards to pitch with Squadron Hawk, and add the other cheap removal of Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, and Path to Exile. For win conditions, there's Nahiri, but Gideon Jura is also a good way of stopping damage that eventually wins the game, as is Ajani Vengeant. They pitch well too.
I'm not yet sure what those other 5 should be, ideally it's some sort of card draw, it's white, and it slows damage intake. Wall of Omens is a possibility but not one I'm thrilled with. There's a lot that can be done with the mana too, I'm sort of shortcutting it there, but there's some hawk support (the pitches are exile, but not the Nahiri +'s) and maybe some other stuff (like cycling lands if running 26)
Maybe some Martyr of Sands? I don't like pure lifegain though.
Thoughts? Too far off of RW Lockdown?
Not far off lockdown per se. Martyr and a couple of Procs of Rebirth would quite literally give you a large chunk of Martyr Proc with Nahiri grafted on. I have often dreamed of using Sunscour, it is one of those cards. I would maindeck 4 Leyline of Sanctity, protect the walkers. If running 4 Hawks then mistveil plains are worth it too. I would not bother with bolts in this build, you run sunscour after all and are in no danger of early defeat.
Has anyone found any real success with Nahiri stax/landkill builds? I've seen landkill/stax without walkers here quite a bit, especially suppression field builds as well as Nahiri-ponza builds that run wraths and no taxing effects (prison, magus, etc.) but none that utilize all 3 pieces of Nahiri, landkill, and taxing effects. It feels like my efforts are quite spread out.
It's also getting increasingly frustrating seeing this blend of pieces lose to decks that I think it should beat. Whether it be my other pet decks that I haven't devoted the same amount of time to, match-ups that I think I should win (decks with greedy mana bases, things like tron where we can turn them off tron easily, etc.), or sometimes even some of my friends' more casual decks. The idea feels inconsistent and more often than not I feel as though I'm running into the same set of problems.
Nahiri is harder to defend that she should be. She's my only serious win con, outside of running out Dark-Dwellers and hoping that they can beat the opponent down. Magus doesn't protect her well enough sometimes (assuming I can keep him on the field) and prison only keeps me alive, not her. Leylines help, just not against creatures
I feel as though I'm consistently pressured into resolving a bust to regain a favorable position if the opponent was able to draw into enough lands to continue what they want after the first few booms/stone rains/molten rains. Then the race is simply resolve bust or die... and a lot of times I just die
So I feel as though I have to either take the deck in one of 2 main directions. Either convert it into a suppression field build and drop the walkers, and maybe even add crucible for a ghost quarter recursion lock, or take the deck's lock pieces out and substitute them for wraths and spot removal. I feel as though a suppression field landkill stax build would be very effective but it gets around the primary reason I created this deck in the first place which was to build a RW deck around Nahiri. Conversely, going into Nahiri ponza w/o taxes seems risky, and a good recipe to die quickly to a lot of aggro decks.
A lot of you guys have plenty more experience than I do. I'd really love to hear your advice on this... I tend to overthink things and doubt my own decklists
Edit: I think for now I'm going to drop ghostly prison, and maybe even just a little bit of landkill. Without recursion I think it's best to focus slightly less on the landkill lock and more on protecting Nahiri, even if just a bit. Maybe add a 4th magus while I'm at it, and banishing light/oblivion ring to be a sort of catch-all. The best change I made was having 4 Temple of Triumph. The scry is amazingly good...
I have seen Nahiri with landkill, and in Moon/Chalice lists with no bridge (Bridge replaced by cards like Timely Reinfocements and Walls of Omens). I have not seen Nahri-landkill/stax builds.
Two reasons- Firstly Ghostly Prison won't protect the PW. You cannot use Suppression Field with Nahiri of course either. Magus won't work well without a minimum of 4 Ghostly, ideally with S F too, and for my money if you don't run S Field in landkill lists (older lists don't) then at least 4 Chalice must be included- you must get about 10 relevant t2 plays. Secondly without Ghostly your landkill becomes worse. The deck becomes prone to seeing nonbos or drawing the wrong half.
The problem is that you can't lay Nahiri often without protection. That means creatures like walls or TR tokens, which play badly with Magus. Or Bridge that plays badly with...Nahiri. Nahriri also likes maindeck Leylines, which are hard to squeeze into dedicated landkill bulds. Nahhiri with Moon/ a tad of landkill and Chalice would be your best bet for Nahriri, there are lots of good Nahriri lists out there with landkill- Nahiri Ponza. That might be a bit superfriends-ish for you but you get to use Nahriri and some landkill.
If the landkill is what you want to focus on then Landkill-Stax is excellent still, although it is less common than Nahiri good results have been put up by the people who do play it. S field is ideal for any fast linear environ as we see at present -4 SF, 4 Ghostly, and some chalice action with the usual landkill packages work well, with a nod to Darkdwellers/bust.
You can make sure Nahiri decks do not lose to aggro, but how much landkill you end up with is another matter....
Temples are excellent- and standard now, basically. People are beginning to realise that fetches and shocks have been applied to decks where there are benefits to not using them. Many decks don't need the lifeloss, fastlands are used more today too. Scrylands are ideal.
Has anyone found any real success with Nahiri stax/landkill builds? I've seen landkill/stax without walkers here quite a bit, especially suppression field builds as well as Nahiri-ponza builds that run wraths and no taxing effects (prison, magus, etc.) but none that utilize all 3 pieces of Nahiri, landkill, and taxing effects. It feels like my efforts are quite spread out.
It's also getting increasingly frustrating seeing this blend of pieces lose to decks that I think it should beat. Whether it be my other pet decks that I haven't devoted the same amount of time to, match-ups that I think I should win (decks with greedy mana bases, things like tron where we can turn them off tron easily, etc.), or sometimes even some of my friends' more casual decks. The idea feels inconsistent and more often than not I feel as though I'm running into the same set of problems.
Nahiri is harder to defend that she should be. She's my only serious win con, outside of running out Dark-Dwellers and hoping that they can beat the opponent down. Magus doesn't protect her well enough sometimes (assuming I can keep him on the field) and prison only keeps me alive, not her. Leylines help, just not against creatures
I feel as though I'm consistently pressured into resolving a bust to regain a favorable position if the opponent was able to draw into enough lands to continue what they want after the first few booms/stone rains/molten rains. Then the race is simply resolve bust or die... and a lot of times I just die
So I feel as though I have to either take the deck in one of 2 main directions. Either convert it into a suppression field build and drop the walkers, and maybe even add crucible for a ghost quarter recursion lock, or take the deck's lock pieces out and substitute them for wraths and spot removal. I feel as though a suppression field landkill stax build would be very effective but it gets around the primary reason I created this deck in the first place which was to build a RW deck around Nahiri. Conversely, going into Nahiri ponza w/o taxes seems risky, and a good recipe to die quickly to a lot of aggro decks.
A lot of you guys have plenty more experience than I do. I'd really love to hear your advice on this... I tend to overthink things and doubt my own decklists
Edit: I think for now I'm going to drop ghostly prison, and maybe even just a little bit of landkill. Without recursion I think it's best to focus slightly less on the landkill lock and more on protecting Nahiri, even if just a bit. Maybe add a 4th magus while I'm at it, and banishing light/oblivion ring to be a sort of catch-all. The best change I made was having 4 Temple of Triumph. The scry is amazingly good...
Bro you should really check out the list I have been showing in my streams. click on the youtube link in my sig and check the description of any recent stream, the RW lockdown list is there.
You are having all the same problems I have with those versions. My list addresses most of them. The strat is still vulnerable to heavy counterspells and non creature combos before the sideboard, but that has been the decks weakness from the start. I clean up most everyone else with that list.
Not far off lockdown per se. Martyr and a couple of Procs of Rebirth would quite literally give you a large chunk of Martyr Proc with Nahiri grafted on. I have often dreamed of using Sunscour, it is one of those cards. I would maindeck 4 Leyline of Sanctity, protect the walkers. If running 4 Hawks then mistveil plains are worth it too. I would not bother with bolts in this build, you run sunscour after all and are in no danger of early defeat.
I'm not sure about Martyr, it wants cards in hand while the removal works off of exiling your hand, but I was considering Ranger of Eos as a midgame way to fuel your hand back up.
Which is another Martyr staple, of course. I am not suggesting to go Martyr myself, although a Nahiri Martyr build with the Hawks recurring and fogs via Kami would potnetially be viable. I am instead simply reacting to the choice of Squadron Hawks and lifegain suggestion. Martyr of course normally comes with a 6/6 Ascendant. The hand issue in Martyr is normally solved by using the Proclamation of Rebirth's forecast ability- the life and hand soon build up when you spend 6/7 mana late game on the abilities.
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Oddly the feel of the deck is rather secure for me. I refuse to go Nahiri and Emmy.
The practice runs I've had reveals Chandra is a good stick to the field when in control but if you're behind it's a lot harder. Ajani however is nuts. I never thought of him as a good card until I wanted land destro. He's all I ever wanted now lol.
Eternal Scourge is abusable most of the time. The only thing it lacks is flying.
Please gimme your advice to make it better, but no Nahiri or Emmy. :b...
With nahiri I've been using the new combustible gearhulk and I'm very happy with it in my crucible bridge build.Card draw has always been an issue for me and the gearhulk has been good in the late game.Its been best after a wrath,and the card draw puts enough cards in hand I can swing under the bridge.
Koth works well after the wrath and the gearhulk hits,the 4/4 land creature is usually enough to finish.
Updated my decklist on the previous page.
Just trying new things.
Sorry it was late,im using two combustible gearhulk,i edited previous posts.I am not using emrakul.
Crucible,GQ and flagstones has been great for me,I can tap flagstone, GQ it and replay the flagstones.I more or less use it to thin the deck so I draw answers late game and not lands.
Hi guys i want to test the RW tod stevens deck and i wanna ask you why would you play the man land? Isnt it better to play just gemstone cavern?
The man land is pretty impressive post Sweeper, I have found it to work well in most versions that are not focussed on Landkill. The way it avoids planesalker and sorcery speed removal is enough to justify its inclusion. The Todd Stevens list seems set up for a certain meta, I would not be hesitant to change things around for your expected meta. This is not a linear combo deck like infect where the 75 becomes rapidly agreed upon, and to approach it as such would be a mistake. Go right ahead on Caverns if you feel it is worth it.
Personally I am not a massive fan of the Gemstone Caverns in these lists- it is ok but by no means an auto-include if you look at the history of RW lockdowns, if I was going to include it I would drop the second clifftop retreat. But either way don't worry about not conforming to X or Y list. Look at the variation in the primers. Admittedly Nahiri lists have more conformity than most, but even then there is room to make it fit your expected meta.
Sorry it was late,im using two combustible gearhulk,i edited previous posts.I am not using emrakul.
Crucible,GQ and flagstones has been great for me,I can tap flagstone, GQ it and replay the flagstones.I more or less use it to thin the deck so I draw answers late game and not lands.
The same tech is used in Martyr Proc. It can fetch any plains, which is a great feature, although Mistveil Plains tech is not something we would use like Proc does. Fetching a Sacred Foundry is great though (off the Flagstones, not the Ghost Quarter of course). My personal favourite is Ghost Quatering an opponent to death, I have done it a lot, and Crucible/GQ is especially good with Aven Mindcensor of course. Not sure about Gearhulk, at 5 mana I would rather Boom/Bust and DarkDweller, so the Gearhulks seem pretty weak by comparison. Who needs cards when the enemy has no mana....)
I've been all over the place testing every day.I have the majority of all cards for the diffrent versions but haven't settled on a sweet spot.Most of the time I play a few games then switch out a few cards for ones suggested here and try a few more.Card draw late game was my biggest issue,then closing the game was second.
I just posted because it was requested,i quite enjoy the write ups and input here.
I can't play/test on mtgo because I only have it in paper(no proxies).
I lend a few of my decks out so I can get challenged but even then I'm limited to tron,affinity,bgx eldrazi,sisters,dredge,wur delver,burn,coco elves and d&t,other than friends home brews.They haven't had much practice with them and misplay a lot so it's hard to get "honest" results.
I haven't played against anything else so my input is minimal at best.
As you can see by my list I've only a single copy of some of the more expensive cards unfortunately so still trying to make do with what I have.
So many choices of diffrent approaches.I enjoy it though.
Thanks, I will be updating soon, I will include a link to your you tube channel in the video section, and your list in the Bridge and Nahiri section i.e. the first section). You are already credited in the primer for your original efforts, of course. It is nice to see you back again- the deck appears to have gained lots of new options from a couple of years ago, and has now joined 8 rack in developing competitive.
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One question guys, I have been playing against a lot of decks and Im feeling confortable with the deck. But at the moment, I didnt faced burn.
How is the match? How would you sideboard?
I ve been cutting both wraths, both chandras, and banishig light and a blood moon for 3 leyline, 2 blessed and 1 anger. Is that correct?
Im playing todd stevens decklist
I'm playing Todd Stevens' list as well, and I would cut another Blood Moon and keep 1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance in -- you really really do not want to draw a 2nd Moon, and even the first Moon sometimes does absolutely nothing.
As you may notice,i don't play nahiri because i want to play with ensnaring bridge so no emrakul. And to be honest, I'm not even sure new chandra is worse than nahiri.
Another "weird" choice is faithless looting, but i found it to be almost as good as serum visions in this deck, because often you have dead cards to pitch anyway (extra blood moons, bridges, planeswalkers, or generally cards that are bad in certain matchups e.g. anger of the gods vs tron), and a bit of card disadvantage is good if your plan is hiding behind a bridge. i don't think 4 faithless looting is playable, but 3 could be ok.
Deck feels really smooth and the only numbers i could see changing are between bridges/alliances/angers. Mainly i feel like cutting one bridge for the 4th blessed alliance: when you need bridge, you really need it, but sometimes you are not able to deploy your hand fast enough so 4 bridges may be too many.
Sideboard is always in flux and it's mostly made of white haymakers.
It seems at all, that RW Lockdown (regarding the style) is well positioned against all the aggro decks. Where I have lots of problems are the control decks. Played couple of games on Xmage with the Boom/Bust+Flagstone version and with Todd Stevens' list. Never won a game against control. I already added Boil to the SB (which were countered every time). Do you have any specific strategy against control?
The Bust/Flagstone lists can beat control if they run S field and Chalice, especially if they use Serum Visions. If RW decks use omit chalice/field and run more three drops and don't draw a t2 boom then they lose, simple as that, you can't start the game t3, and drawing defensive measures like Blessed Alliance or Helix do nothing in those matches. I have rarely lost to control with landkill- stax versions. Board wise Boil is very strong. A 4 Chalice 4 S Field 4 and 4 Boom Bust list has a lot of t2 action, and can often cast two things t4. A T2 S Field is normally curtains for most control lists on the draw- they ahve to pay 2 to develop their bases making counters useless, giving you access to more landkill.
The Moon lists like Todd Steven's effort are simply weaker against control. If you want to be cute you can play a version that runs a big reset button like Obliterate in the board that you hope to draw with a resolved Blood Moon out to lock them out, but I really don't recommend it unless your meta is very controlling and you have all the other decks beat, as its a dead card against most decks and a waste of a slot. You can pack the board with 2-3 copies of Boil and hope. Using Walkers like Chandra is decent against Nahiri USA control that taps out for its own Nahiris if they do so. Running Rest In Peace main can do an awful lot against Grixis control as most control decks use things like Snappy. USA does too, but they can run Nahiri to exile the RIP.
Maindecking Leylines also helps in those Moon lists against control.
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It seems at all, that RW Lockdown (regarding the style) is well positioned against all the aggro decks. Where I have lots of problems are the control decks. Played couple of games on Xmage with the Boom/Bust+Flagstone version and with Todd Stevens' list. Never won a game against control. I already added Boil to the SB (which were countered every time). Do you have any specific strategy against control?
The Bust/Flagstone lists can beat control if they run S field and Chalice, especially if they use Serum Visions. If RW decks use omit chalice/field and run more three drops and don't draw a t2 boom then they lose, simple as that, you can't start the game t3, and drawing defensive measures like Blessed Alliance or Helix do nothing in those matches. I have rarely lost to control with landkill- stax versions. Board wise Boil is very strong. A 4 Chalice 4 S Field 4 and 4 Boom Bust list has a lot of t2 action, and can often cast two things t4. A T2 S Field is normally curtains for most control lists on the draw- they ahve to pay 2 to develop their bases making counters useless, giving you access to more landkill.
The Moon lists like Todd Steven's effort are simply weaker against control. If you want to be cute you can play a version that runs a big reset button like Obliterate in the board that you hope to draw with a resolved Blood Moon out to lock them out, but I really don't recommend it unless your meta is very controlling and you have all the other decks beat, as its a dead card against most decks and a waste of a slot. You can pack the board with 2-3 copies of Boil and hope. Using Walkers like Chandra is decent against Nahiri USA control that taps out for its own Nahiris if they do so. Running Rest In Peace main can do an awful lot against Grixis control as most control decks use things like Snappy. USA does too, but they can run Nahiri to exile the RIP.
Maindecking Leylines also helps in those Moon lists against control.
I agree. I have found that my RW Scorched Earth variant (GDD, Boom//Bust, Nahiri, Blood Moon, etc) is excellent against the aggro decks. I almost never lose, even against Affinity, Jund, Infect and fish. But as the meta at my LGS skews towards blue I struggle a bit more. It becomes critical to mulligan aggressively. A fast Moon or Boom//Bust is almost critical against them. I also run Molten Rains in my deck, which is almost must counter card for them, so I try to bait them and then then land Moon. I have considered looking for room in my SB for Gutteral Response. It's not as flexible as Ricochet Trap, but overall an excellent card. I also run 2 Restos in my build and have randomly flashed in an angel at EOT after running them out of counterspells and beaten them down. That's a case of winning through variance though, and can't be counted upon.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
The landkill lists I was speaking about also run molten and stone rains (but not moons). he key being that all important t2 play.
I run 2 Chalice, 4 S Field, plus the boom bust combos. The t2 action play is a must- and it must be disruptive, rather than simply reactive. If my meta was going to be more controlling than that then I would aim for 4 chalice, 4 SF and 4 B/B.
In my Moon/Bridge style lists I run RIP main, Chalices, SSGs and Leylines, and it is still only 50/50 game 1 vs USA control. The message is- do more stuff early to beat control, mulligan aggressively.
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Not far off lockdown per se. Martyr and a couple of Procs of Rebirth would quite literally give you a large chunk of Martyr Proc with Nahiri grafted on. I have often dreamed of using Sunscour, it is one of those cards. I would maindeck 4 Leyline of Sanctity, protect the walkers. If running 4 Hawks then mistveil plains are worth it too. I would not bother with bolts in this build, you run sunscour after all and are in no danger of early defeat.
I have seen Nahiri with landkill, and in Moon/Chalice lists with no bridge (Bridge replaced by cards like Timely Reinfocements and Walls of Omens). I have not seen Nahri-landkill/stax builds.
Two reasons- Firstly Ghostly Prison won't protect the PW. You cannot use Suppression Field with Nahiri of course either. Magus won't work well without a minimum of 4 Ghostly, ideally with S F too, and for my money if you don't run S Field in landkill lists (older lists don't) then at least 4 Chalice must be included- you must get about 10 relevant t2 plays. Secondly without Ghostly your landkill becomes worse. The deck becomes prone to seeing nonbos or drawing the wrong half.
The problem is that you can't lay Nahiri often without protection. That means creatures like walls or TR tokens, which play badly with Magus. Or Bridge that plays badly with...Nahiri. Nahriri also likes maindeck Leylines, which are hard to squeeze into dedicated landkill bulds. Nahhiri with Moon/ a tad of landkill and Chalice would be your best bet for Nahriri, there are lots of good Nahriri lists out there with landkill- Nahiri Ponza. That might be a bit superfriends-ish for you but you get to use Nahriri and some landkill.
If the landkill is what you want to focus on then Landkill-Stax is excellent still, although it is less common than Nahiri good results have been put up by the people who do play it. S field is ideal for any fast linear environ as we see at present -4 SF, 4 Ghostly, and some chalice action with the usual landkill packages work well, with a nod to Darkdwellers/bust.
You can make sure Nahiri decks do not lose to aggro, but how much landkill you end up with is another matter....
Temples are excellent- and standard now, basically. People are beginning to realise that fetches and shocks have been applied to decks where there are benefits to not using them. Many decks don't need the lifeloss, fastlands are used more today too. Scrylands are ideal.
Another one of interest.
Don't much care for the name though.
You are having all the same problems I have with those versions. My list addresses most of them. The strat is still vulnerable to heavy counterspells and non creature combos before the sideboard, but that has been the decks weakness from the start. I clean up most everyone else with that list.
I'm not sure about Martyr, it wants cards in hand while the removal works off of exiling your hand, but I was considering Ranger of Eos as a midgame way to fuel your hand back up.
I would also like to point the way to your videos in the primer if you have a list of the ones featuring your Nahiri content.
3 Gideon Jura
4 Blood Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lightning Helix
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Arid Mesa
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Mountain
9 Plains
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Mind Stone
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Wrath of God
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Needle Spires
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Damping Matrix
4 Rest in Peace
4 Leyline of Sanctity
One question too- is 3 Temple right- they always seem to end up being a 4 of in most lists?
4x Arid Mesa
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
3x Inspiring Vantage
3x Mountain
2x Plains
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Wooded Foothills
3x Anger of the Gods
4x Boom // Bust
2x Magmatic Insight
3x Molten Rain
Planeswalker (5)
2x Ajani Vengeant
3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3x Lightning Helix
2x Volcanic Fallout
Artifact (7)
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x Mind Stone
Creature (8)
4x Eternal Scourge
4x Simian Spirit Guide
==== The major problem I'm dealing with is pumped creatures without using Path to Exile Which is better? Condemn, Oust, or Blessed Alliance? And what would you cut in regards to it?
==== Another is which would you rather have? Magmatic Insight, Faithless Looting, or Tormenting Voice?
Oddly the feel of the deck is rather secure for me. I refuse to go Nahiri and Emmy.
The practice runs I've had reveals Chandra is a good stick to the field when in control but if you're behind it's a lot harder. Ajani however is nuts. I never thought of him as a good card until I wanted land destro. He's all I ever wanted now lol.
Eternal Scourge is abusable most of the time. The only thing it lacks is flying.
Please gimme your advice to make it better, but no Nahiri or Emmy. :b...
Koth works well after the wrath and the gearhulk hits,the 4/4 land creature is usually enough to finish.
Updated my decklist on the previous page.
Just trying new things.
The white gearhulk doesn't draw cards so I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Mirage King,
Blessed Alliance seems like the best option, another good one can be Declaration in Stone.
There is also Sudden Shock.
I see no reason not to play Nahiri, the Harbinger as it is the best win-con for the deck (in versions that don't play Ensnaring Bridge) and it's a much better PW than Ajani Vengeant.
Why do you have Volcanic Fallout ?
I would rather add the 4th Lightning Helix and Anger of the Gods or 2x Blessed Alliance/Declaration in Stone.
Maindeck Crucible of Worlds seems strange as well and way too slow to do anything, Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void (or even Ensnaring Bridge) would be much better instead.
Also all the ramp in the deck (SSG + Mind Stone) seems rather unnecessary without these lock pieces.
Instead of Magmatic Insight you can use Magma Jet for scry and removal/burn.
Faithless Looting is card disadvantage (without any graveyard synergies) so it is bad and Tormenting Voice is mediocre but at least not as narrow as Magmatic Insight.
Since the deck doesn't play 1-drops Temple of Triumph is very good here as well.
Crucible,GQ and flagstones has been great for me,I can tap flagstone, GQ it and replay the flagstones.I more or less use it to thin the deck so I draw answers late game and not lands.
The man land is pretty impressive post Sweeper, I have found it to work well in most versions that are not focussed on Landkill. The way it avoids planesalker and sorcery speed removal is enough to justify its inclusion. The Todd Stevens list seems set up for a certain meta, I would not be hesitant to change things around for your expected meta. This is not a linear combo deck like infect where the 75 becomes rapidly agreed upon, and to approach it as such would be a mistake. Go right ahead on Caverns if you feel it is worth it.
Personally I am not a massive fan of the Gemstone Caverns in these lists- it is ok but by no means an auto-include if you look at the history of RW lockdowns, if I was going to include it I would drop the second clifftop retreat. But either way don't worry about not conforming to X or Y list. Look at the variation in the primers. Admittedly Nahiri lists have more conformity than most, but even then there is room to make it fit your expected meta.
The same tech is used in Martyr Proc. It can fetch any plains, which is a great feature, although Mistveil Plains tech is not something we would use like Proc does. Fetching a Sacred Foundry is great though (off the Flagstones, not the Ghost Quarter of course). My personal favourite is Ghost Quatering an opponent to death, I have done it a lot, and Crucible/GQ is especially good with Aven Mindcensor of course. Not sure about Gearhulk, at 5 mana I would rather Boom/Bust and DarkDweller, so the Gearhulks seem pretty weak by comparison. Who needs cards when the enemy has no mana....)
I just posted because it was requested,i quite enjoy the write ups and input here.
I can't play/test on mtgo because I only have it in paper(no proxies).
I lend a few of my decks out so I can get challenged but even then I'm limited to tron,affinity,bgx eldrazi,sisters,dredge,wur delver,burn,coco elves and d&t,other than friends home brews.They haven't had much practice with them and misplay a lot so it's hard to get "honest" results.
I haven't played against anything else so my input is minimal at best.
As you can see by my list I've only a single copy of some of the more expensive cards unfortunately so still trying to make do with what I have.
So many choices of diffrent approaches.I enjoy it though.
Another one- a Bride/Moon list with a tad of landkill
3 Wrath of God
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Journey to Nowhere
4 Arid Mesa
3 Inspiring Vantage
2 Rugged Prairie
3 Gideon Jura
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Plains
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Day of Judgment
4 Myth Realized
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Madcap Experiment
4 Lightning Helix
4 Needle Spires
1 Platinum Emperion
4 Pithing Needle
3 Runed Halo
4 Rest in Peace
Heres my list mark.
I'm playing Todd Stevens' list as well, and I would cut another Blood Moon and keep 1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance in -- you really really do not want to draw a 2nd Moon, and even the first Moon sometimes does absolutely nothing.
Instant/sorceries:
4 Lightning bolt
4 molten rain
4 boom/bust
3 blessed alliance
2 faithless looting
2 anger of the gods
Planeswalkers:
3 chandra torch of defiance
2 koth of the hammer
1 ajani vengeant
Lock pieces:
4 Blood Moon
4 Ensnaring bridge
Creatures:
4 simian spirit guide
lands:
4 sacred foundry
4 temple of triumph
4 flagstones of trokair
4 arid mesa
2 windswept heath
2 plains
2 mountain
1 darksteel citadel
As you may notice,i don't play nahiri because i want to play with ensnaring bridge so no emrakul. And to be honest, I'm not even sure new chandra is worse than nahiri.
Another "weird" choice is faithless looting, but i found it to be almost as good as serum visions in this deck, because often you have dead cards to pitch anyway (extra blood moons, bridges, planeswalkers, or generally cards that are bad in certain matchups e.g. anger of the gods vs tron), and a bit of card disadvantage is good if your plan is hiding behind a bridge. i don't think 4 faithless looting is playable, but 3 could be ok.
Deck feels really smooth and the only numbers i could see changing are between bridges/alliances/angers. Mainly i feel like cutting one bridge for the 4th blessed alliance: when you need bridge, you really need it, but sometimes you are not able to deploy your hand fast enough so 4 bridges may be too many.
Sideboard is always in flux and it's mostly made of white haymakers.
The Bust/Flagstone lists can beat control if they run S field and Chalice, especially if they use Serum Visions. If RW decks use omit chalice/field and run more three drops and don't draw a t2 boom then they lose, simple as that, you can't start the game t3, and drawing defensive measures like Blessed Alliance or Helix do nothing in those matches. I have rarely lost to control with landkill- stax versions. Board wise Boil is very strong. A 4 Chalice 4 S Field 4 and 4 Boom Bust list has a lot of t2 action, and can often cast two things t4. A T2 S Field is normally curtains for most control lists on the draw- they ahve to pay 2 to develop their bases making counters useless, giving you access to more landkill.
The Moon lists like Todd Steven's effort are simply weaker against control. If you want to be cute you can play a version that runs a big reset button like Obliterate in the board that you hope to draw with a resolved Blood Moon out to lock them out, but I really don't recommend it unless your meta is very controlling and you have all the other decks beat, as its a dead card against most decks and a waste of a slot. You can pack the board with 2-3 copies of Boil and hope. Using Walkers like Chandra is decent against Nahiri USA control that taps out for its own Nahiris if they do so. Running Rest In Peace main can do an awful lot against Grixis control as most control decks use things like Snappy. USA does too, but they can run Nahiri to exile the RIP.
Maindecking Leylines also helps in those Moon lists against control.
I agree. I have found that my RW Scorched Earth variant (GDD, Boom//Bust, Nahiri, Blood Moon, etc) is excellent against the aggro decks. I almost never lose, even against Affinity, Jund, Infect and fish. But as the meta at my LGS skews towards blue I struggle a bit more. It becomes critical to mulligan aggressively. A fast Moon or Boom//Bust is almost critical against them. I also run Molten Rains in my deck, which is almost must counter card for them, so I try to bait them and then then land Moon. I have considered looking for room in my SB for Gutteral Response. It's not as flexible as Ricochet Trap, but overall an excellent card. I also run 2 Restos in my build and have randomly flashed in an angel at EOT after running them out of counterspells and beaten them down. That's a case of winning through variance though, and can't be counted upon.
I run 2 Chalice, 4 S Field, plus the boom bust combos. The t2 action play is a must- and it must be disruptive, rather than simply reactive. If my meta was going to be more controlling than that then I would aim for 4 chalice, 4 SF and 4 B/B.
In my Moon/Bridge style lists I run RIP main, Chalices, SSGs and Leylines, and it is still only 50/50 game 1 vs USA control. The message is- do more stuff early to beat control, mulligan aggressively.