To be clear - I think this is maybe more of a really strong aggro card in Standard... maybe... If wotc wanted to shift aggro colors away from RDW and into white weenie and/or Boros and/or some other Tribal plan then this is how you do it.
But if it's strong enough then it'll have other applications. As it stands it already has the potential to swing damage in a big way away from aggro. If you tap two goblin guides with it then you've already gained 6 life. Even against Jund it potentially gains 5 or more life AND makes it harder to protect Liliana.
I can't see it working unless we get a Storage matrix that is better. Blind Obedience gets no play currently, even with Storage Matrix about. It is nice to have as a future option, but it needs something else.
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My only issue with Nahiri/Ponza builds is that they don't use the taxes (Ghostly/Magus/Suppression Field) that synergise with landkill, meaning if they draw the landkill they sometimes die under early pressure when a tax deck does not. This is because Anger is far worse at dealing with dudes int he current meta (Death's Shadow, Infect and Burn decks all running the mutagenics) than a hard-ass Magus and Ghostly would be.
I would run 4 Leyline in the side, protecting Nahiri is key. I would also consider dropping a blood moon for a Ajani V.
Defense grid is a bit so-so for me, I have never taken to it, and I am struggling to see how Celestial Purge is really going to help you in that meta.....a generic Runed Halo, Nevermore, Spellskite or specific card like Kor Firewalker would probably be better.
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No, not at all- Landkill (Ponza) Nahiri lists have done well in some cases- I think I have referred to them in the primer. I think that Anger is probably not ideal as your killer sweeper because you have no taxes or Magus, and you are vulnerable to mutagenic growth and other pumps as all your spells kill only 3 toughness. I would consider some Ghostly Prison/Magus number, yes- the latter so that you can protect Nahiri (2/6s do that pretty well), the former to work with Landkill [esp BUST] (it won't protect Nahiri, sadly). Blood Moon, Helix, Anger are all trim-able. Nahiri will glue your deck together by her very nature. It is worth noting that Blood Moon is a nonbo with Flagstones. Legendary mountains that do nothing when you go to the bin. That is true of Rest in Peace too- a nonbo with Flagstones.
I would consider Blessed Alliance and Lightning helix mixed. BA is great vs Infect and Goyfs, and flexible too, and if you get 4 mana can do lots.
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Yes, true, but we get no choice on sequencing, and we don't always resolve chalice early enough. Sometimes we just need to not lose t3 because we have the tools in hand t4, but the odds of a Chalice t2 and Anger OTG t3 in order to not die is lower than them either Spell Pierce-ing the Chalice or us not drawing the Chalice and being stuck with the t3 wipe as our only means of survival- but only if they are out of pumps. They can also blow us out T2 which is fair enough, it happens. Often they see our plays coming thanks to probe, which does not help. Anger also has the issue that if they have an unactivated Inkmoth down when we cast it we are again hoping they are out of pumps t4 (when we are tapped out) or that we have landed that Chalice and they do not have the Become Immense. In short tapping out t3 to anger is often more risky than tapping out to lay a Ghostly- which sometimes gets beaten by the right pump combination but often does not- check out the mana needed t4 for a Inkmoth to attack into a Ghostly- its a whopping 3, that reduces them to free pumps only, unless they have a mana dork down. Either way Chlalice is our main out to their pumps, and we have less than a 50% chance of having the card down successfully t2.
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Hey there, newly joined but a longtime lurker of the prison decks in Modern.
I've been using drmarkb's (much respect) R/W Bridge control list for some time & just wondering if there's an updated list.
Tried the Landkill ver. of the deck a few months back to disastrous results. I pretty much went full tilt with landkill & shelved it. I'm sure the deck works for many others, just not for me.
Anyway, just a few questions:
I'm sure it's been mentioned before but wouldn't Magma Jet work extremely well in smoothing out the draws? Temple alone I feel isn't enough.
Apart from ATL, Ajani, Needle Spires/Megaliths, Banefire, are there any other wincons that would work now? Other win-cons that have been mentioned before, assuming giving up bridges in some number:
- Nahiri package
- Resto-kiki package
- Resto/Wall of Omens
- Akroma
- Batterskull
- Eight-and-a-Half-Tails (late game lock protection)
I think that the win-con side of things is simpler once the new Chandra is available. Suppression Field builds can't use her of course, but if you use Planeswalkers then new Chandra is your win-con. I think she makes Ajani better too, by shifting his responsibilities toward a utility role.
Magma jets aren't a good plug and play replacement for burn, but if you're willing to redesign your deck concept just a bit to cope with the lack of damage, you might gain enough consistency to justify the change.
I'm looking through the spoilers again. Bomat Courier has an interesting and potentially powerful ability, but requires a different type of deck I think.
Prophetic Prism is an interesting card for Blood Moon fans. It is basically free mana filtering. I can't tell you how many times I false-started on Blood Moon ideas that Blood Moon itself would prevent working.
Magma jet is fine, meta dependent, but fine.
Your package
Nahiri- super
Resto/kiki/wall super
Akroma- ok worth remembering it can die to lot of other removal effects
Batterskull- solid enough
8.5 tails- never seen this do much
K an P Nalar works under the bridge, and protects multiple Bridges from maelstrom pulse, providing two colourless flying blockers/attackers
My current list
I included fetches in the list because the moons are main. If I am on landkill or pillowfort I try to avoid them. Megaliths and Mystifying Maze had to go.
Options for the board include adding crumble or boil no 2 or sudden shock x2, another blessed alliance etc.
Boom/bust dweller tech can work over Ajani, I know that, but P and K Nalar do work well with the number of artifacts, and Dweller is bad with Bridge. We need 19 board cards, its all down to meta. I use Karma, for example, because its good against midrange black-green-x, and the damage can kill a planeswalker like Lilly.
I will be adding P and K Nalar and Blessed alliance to the Bridge discussion, and Blessed to the Landkill discussion in the primer.....
I saw some people talking about the new Chandra and Obliterate. If we go down that path what about Koth of the Hammer too? Seems like you can ramp into Obliterate fairly easy that way especially with blood moon.
I mention Obliterate a lot, but its not really a RW Landkill Stax, Nahiri Ponza or Boros Bridge card. The way to abuse it is to have huge numbers of Enchantments and PWS. Blowing up land an Bridges is not stellar, it needs to be combined with huge numbers of Taxing enchantments..........which basically means Pillow Fort. If you do run 6-10 enchantments then yes, its fine, as a board card. Even in regular 25 + enchantment pillow fort its normally a board card.
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Been lurking for some time now,i run a paper version with only 2 bridges and 3 prisons.I have almost every card in every version but the more expensive cards are still singles such as ajani,nahiri,crucible,chalice,spellskite,etc.I have one blood moon and two magus as well.I MB 2 paths for early goyfs,displacers and newlamog too.
Question is has anyone tried wheel of fate for when in top deck mode?Or is that too dangerous since it would add to many cards in hand.
I'm looking to get more card draw late game, wager,voice,lore and looting have all been things I've tried and none of them seemed like a good fit. Wheel though may give the opponent a chance to swing but they still have the prisons to get through,its my reasoning why it might work.
I am limited playtesting as it is paper and the wife would kill me if I bought all the cards online but I can get away with a few singles of cards in paper without having to sleep outside.
I've tried using the search on wizards but I'm getting nowhere.
Thanks in advance.
Reforge the soul is better- you get it there and then for just 2 on the miracle trigger, meaning you can use your stuff first. It works well if you harm their land in some way, enabling you to refill on landkill while they refill on mana sources, the difference being you can use your 7 quicker than they can. You then destroy their mana quicker than they can play and use it,because you have 5 mana and a new hand and they have 2 and a new hand. In theory that is. I tried it in a dedicated mono r landkill list with minor Ghostly Splash. It worked well in that in some games you won an they were never in it, just as you ran out of steam you refilled and they were always behond mana wise. On the other hand in some games they got stuff down and casting it meant defeat or at least high risk.
Without landkill I doubt it works but you never know.
I was expecting my meta to be filled with Aggro, Combo Aggro, Both flavors of Eldrazi (Tron + Aggro) so took drmarkb's list & tried to tweak it back to more creature hate list.
Wish I could say I went well but went a disappointing 4-3. I'll briefly summarize the rounds played, forgot what I sideboarded in/out (just assume I sideboarded wrongly a card or two):
Round 1 vs. Grixis Delver - Win G1:Runed Halo being an all star as always, stopping Tasigur & Gurmag Angler which beat me down to 1. He doesn't find his bolt. I land a Blood Moon, Chalice for 1 & ATL for the win. G2:He keeps a slow hand, open with Leyline, SSG into turn 1 Chalice, followed by Spellskite next turn. He counters my next few plays. Ajani resolves and opponent concedes once Ajani ults.
Round 2 vs. Naya Burn/Zoo - Loss G1:I made a mistake assuming my opponent was playing his Zombie Aggro deck (I jokingly told him he was a sellout) so kept a hand with creature lock pieces. Needless to say, I lost quickly. G2:Slow hand but had Double Chalice, Helix, Timely so kept. Was able to draw out of his double revelry & eventually seal the deal. G3:Being on the draw makes sucks. He drops Swiftspear & Nacatl while throwing burn to the face. Was able to stabilize with creature lock pieces & an active Chandra but by then I was at 6 life. He has one card in hand which I know is a burn spell. A few turns of drawing & +0'ing Chandra doesn't get me Chalice, Leyline or any Life Gain spells and he eventually double burns me.
Round 3 vs. Grishoalbrand - Loss G1:Knew what he was playing so Runed Halo'd Borbs Enraged & Griselbrand. Had an active ATL but he Breached Worldspine Wurm in. No creature lock in play so Trample tokens eventually finish me off. G2:I completely forgot about Goryo so didn't board in the grave hate. Active Chandra to try & dig for Bridge while Leyline, Prison, Chalice for 1 & 2 slows him down. He eventually splices Goryo 3 times to shoal & gets me with 3 Griselbrands. He did take 12 minutes for 1 turn (drew 21 cards) so I could call a judge for slow play but I knew it was quite complicated for him so I didn't.
Round 4 vs. Abzan Coco - Loss G1:So far out of contention so didn't play as seriously. Kept a loose hand that couldn't stop him from comboing to infinite life. Had a bridge but wasn't going to wait for him to draw to 0 so next. G2:Same story & he goes off Turn 3 again.
Round 5 vs. Leaver
Round 6 vs. Abzan midrange - Win
Notable shenanigans in Game 1: He collective brutalities with escalate, show 5 land hand with Bridge & Runed Halo. Eventually reach a point where he has no land with an active Liliana Last Hope ulti while I have ATL and Ajani Vengeant ticking back up. He concedes.
Round 7 vs. Elves - Win
No sage, No Gust, No Corrosion? No Problem
I did see a deck that made top 8 that might spark some interest. R/W Ponza with blue splash. The last deck he played was the Blink Riders deck way back so this is a tweaked version I'm guessing. Couldn't remember the exact list but he did let me see his deck so based on what I saw:
Maybe missing a spell (probably Landkill or burn) plus unsure of the number of Riders & Reveillark. I asked why the splash to which he replied "It's just for the card draw". Not sure if he just lucked out the whole day but he only lost a single round plus lost to Eldrazi Tron in the Quarters due to double magus taxing, not drawing his sixth land and opponent drawing himself out w/ Matter Reshaper sacs and Endbringer. What you guys think?
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To be clear - I think this is maybe more of a really strong aggro card in Standard... maybe... If wotc wanted to shift aggro colors away from RDW and into white weenie and/or Boros and/or some other Tribal plan then this is how you do it.
But if it's strong enough then it'll have other applications. As it stands it already has the potential to swing damage in a big way away from aggro. If you tap two goblin guides with it then you've already gained 6 life. Even against Jund it potentially gains 5 or more life AND makes it harder to protect Liliana.
I would run 4 Leyline in the side, protecting Nahiri is key. I would also consider dropping a blood moon for a Ajani V.
Defense grid is a bit so-so for me, I have never taken to it, and I am struggling to see how Celestial Purge is really going to help you in that meta.....a generic Runed Halo, Nevermore, Spellskite or specific card like Kor Firewalker would probably be better.
I would consider Blessed Alliance and Lightning helix mixed. BA is great vs Infect and Goyfs, and flexible too, and if you get 4 mana can do lots.
I've been using drmarkb's (much respect) R/W Bridge control list for some time & just wondering if there's an updated list.
Tried the Landkill ver. of the deck a few months back to disastrous results. I pretty much went full tilt with landkill & shelved it. I'm sure the deck works for many others, just not for me.
Anyway, just a few questions:
- Resto-kiki package
- Resto/Wall of Omens
- Akroma
- Batterskull
- Eight-and-a-Half-Tails (late game lock protection)
I'm looking through the spoilers again. Bomat Courier has an interesting and potentially powerful ability, but requires a different type of deck I think.
Prophetic Prism is an interesting card for Blood Moon fans. It is basically free mana filtering. I can't tell you how many times I false-started on Blood Moon ideas that Blood Moon itself would prevent working.
Your package
Nahiri- super
Resto/kiki/wall super
Akroma- ok worth remembering it can die to lot of other removal effects
Batterskull- solid enough
8.5 tails- never seen this do much
K an P Nalar works under the bridge, and protects multiple Bridges from maelstrom pulse, providing two colourless flying blockers/attackers
My current list
I included fetches in the list because the moons are main. If I am on landkill or pillowfort I try to avoid them. Megaliths and Mystifying Maze had to go.
4 temple of triumph
2 needle spires
2 mountain
5 plains
3 sacred foundry
1 steam vent
4 arid mesa
2 white fetches
2 runed halo
2 blessed alliance
2 Chalice of the Void
3 rest in peace
2 spellskite
1 ghostly prison (combos with AJ's ultimate, just another road block)
3 blood moon
1 oblivion ring
2 Pia and kiran nalar
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 outpost siege (could be the red walker version, but the second mode combos with Nalar's sacrifice and can do some damage, and enchantments don't die to attack)
1 faith's fetters (could be blinding light)
4 leyline of sanctity
2 assemble the legion
board
1 runed halo
2 pithing needle
1 sudden shock
1 kor firewalker or sanctimony
2 karma
1 boil
1 grafdigger's cage
1 eidolon of rhetoric
1 crumble to dust
3 stony silence
1 nevermore
Options for the board include adding crumble or boil no 2 or sudden shock x2, another blessed alliance etc.
Boom/bust dweller tech can work over Ajani, I know that, but P and K Nalar do work well with the number of artifacts, and Dweller is bad with Bridge. We need 19 board cards, its all down to meta. I use Karma, for example, because its good against midrange black-green-x, and the damage can kill a planeswalker like Lilly.
I will be adding P and K Nalar and Blessed alliance to the Bridge discussion, and Blessed to the Landkill discussion in the primer.....
consulate surveillance is a weak card that could be extremely good IF they decide to give us better sources of energy.
I don't think I would bother brewing with it but I wouldn't want to forget that it exists either.
Question is has anyone tried wheel of fate for when in top deck mode?Or is that too dangerous since it would add to many cards in hand.
I'm looking to get more card draw late game, wager,voice,lore and looting have all been things I've tried and none of them seemed like a good fit. Wheel though may give the opponent a chance to swing but they still have the prisons to get through,its my reasoning why it might work.
I am limited playtesting as it is paper and the wife would kill me if I bought all the cards online but I can get away with a few singles of cards in paper without having to sleep outside.
I've tried using the search on wizards but I'm getting nowhere.
Thanks in advance.
Without landkill I doubt it works but you never know.
another one for the primer
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
6 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Needle Spires
2 Ghost Quarter
Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Spellskite
Lock Pieces
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Runed Halo
2 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Wrath of God
2 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Helix
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Assemble the Legion
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Outpost Siege
2 Pithing Needle
3 Stony Silence
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Boil
1 Pyroclasm
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
I was expecting my meta to be filled with Aggro, Combo Aggro, Both flavors of Eldrazi (Tron + Aggro) so took drmarkb's list & tried to tweak it back to more creature hate list.
Wish I could say I went well but went a disappointing 4-3. I'll briefly summarize the rounds played, forgot what I sideboarded in/out (just assume I sideboarded wrongly a card or two):
Round 1 vs. Grixis Delver - Win
G1:Runed Halo being an all star as always, stopping Tasigur & Gurmag Angler which beat me down to 1. He doesn't find his bolt. I land a Blood Moon, Chalice for 1 & ATL for the win.
G2:He keeps a slow hand, open with Leyline, SSG into turn 1 Chalice, followed by Spellskite next turn. He counters my next few plays. Ajani resolves and opponent concedes once Ajani ults.
Round 2 vs. Naya Burn/Zoo - Loss
G1:I made a mistake assuming my opponent was playing his Zombie Aggro deck (I jokingly told him he was a sellout) so kept a hand with creature lock pieces. Needless to say, I lost quickly.
G2:Slow hand but had Double Chalice, Helix, Timely so kept. Was able to draw out of his double revelry & eventually seal the deal.
G3:Being on the draw makes sucks. He drops Swiftspear & Nacatl while throwing burn to the face. Was able to stabilize with creature lock pieces & an active Chandra but by then I was at 6 life. He has one card in hand which I know is a burn spell. A few turns of drawing & +0'ing Chandra doesn't get me Chalice, Leyline or any Life Gain spells and he eventually double burns me.
Round 3 vs. Grishoalbrand - Loss
G1:Knew what he was playing so Runed Halo'd Borbs Enraged & Griselbrand. Had an active ATL but he Breached Worldspine Wurm in. No creature lock in play so Trample tokens eventually finish me off.
G2:I completely forgot about Goryo so didn't board in the grave hate. Active Chandra to try & dig for Bridge while Leyline, Prison, Chalice for 1 & 2 slows him down. He eventually splices Goryo 3 times to shoal & gets me with 3 Griselbrands. He did take 12 minutes for 1 turn (drew 21 cards) so I could call a judge for slow play but I knew it was quite complicated for him so I didn't.
Round 4 vs. Abzan Coco - Loss
G1:So far out of contention so didn't play as seriously. Kept a loose hand that couldn't stop him from comboing to infinite life. Had a bridge but wasn't going to wait for him to draw to 0 so next.
G2:Same story & he goes off Turn 3 again.
Round 5 vs. Leaver
Round 6 vs. Abzan midrange - Win
Notable shenanigans in Game 1: He collective brutalities with escalate, show 5 land hand with Bridge & Runed Halo. Eventually reach a point where he has no land with an active Liliana Last Hope ulti while I have ATL and Ajani Vengeant ticking back up. He concedes.
Round 7 vs. Elves - Win
No sage, No Gust, No Corrosion? No Problem
Anyway, top 8 consisted of:
Bant Knightfall w/ Spell Quellers - Winner
Infect
Boggles
Amulet Titanshift
Eldrazi Tron
B/R Eldrazi
Jeskai Ponza
*Didn't see*
I did see a deck that made top 8 that might spark some interest. R/W Ponza with blue splash. The last deck he played was the Blink Riders deck way back so this is a tweaked version I'm guessing. Couldn't remember the exact list but he did let me see his deck so based on what I saw:
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Mulldrifter
2 Avalanche Riders
2 Reveillark
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Boom // Bust
3 Blessed Alliance
3 Cavern of Souls
Maybe missing a spell (probably Landkill or burn) plus unsure of the number of Riders & Reveillark. I asked why the splash to which he replied "It's just for the card draw". Not sure if he just lucked out the whole day but he only lost a single round plus lost to Eldrazi Tron in the Quarters due to double magus taxing, not drawing his sixth land and opponent drawing himself out w/ Matter Reshaper sacs and Endbringer. What you guys think?