Here's a version of this deck I've been working on in this metagame. I'm going for a little less speed, little more control that you guys. Life from the Loam makes gurenteed Academy Ruins/Slaver piles which is nice. Feel free to give it a spin, it's a bit different than the traditional but I think it's fairly solid.
Here's a version of this deck I've been working on in this metagame. I'm going for a little less speed, little more control that you guys. Life from the Loam makes gurenteed Academy Ruins/Slaver piles which is nice. Feel free to give it a spin, it's a bit different than the traditional but I think it's fairly solid.
The problem with playing Dig is when you get to cast it. You're not casting it until at least turn 4 by my estimate. The problem was never the mid game, it was more of a transition to the mid game. Our early game is usually filled with trying to manage our own game plan (Map and Signet) with interacting with the opponent (Path, Remand). In the kind of time of the game that I want to cast Dig (which is also when I want to cast Gifts), I simply don't have the resources/time to do so. At least with Gifts I have a very good indication of what I'm getting, and I can potentially combo.
I'm not trying to say Dig is a bad card, just that we don't want more of this effect. When have you ever wanted a 5th Gifts? I think 4 is a good number, because too many clog us up. By the time I cast Dig for the full Delve, I could cast other stuff and not be concerned about the mana. Dig is great for decks like UWR Control because they don't get infinite mana, and they don't play Gifts. They have legitimate mana concerns, and in particular, Gifts is bad due to playing so many 4-ofs and having no apparent synergy. I might reconsider Gifts if there was no MB combos with it.
The changes you make are reasonable but I just don't think the card I'd put in place of Verdict is Dig, as I've outlined.
Your deck looks like it's headed more towards 4c Gifts Control as opposed to UW Tron. 4c Gifts is a perfectly reasonable deck, but trying to mesh the two won't work out well.
Gifts is half colourless, so you can't just start adding singleton cards from other colours. You're going to have mana consistency problems because you don't have the colour. I tried splashing black once just for Lingering Souls flashback and it went horribly. The problem was always that I either drew the black source and was missing some source, or drew the black card with no sources. Lingering Souls was not even that bad in terms of a card since you cast half of it for white. What's going to happen when you draw Loam with no green sources? What happens when you fetch for the Temple Garden but then need blue mana and don't have it? You even cut a Signet and most of the Maps, so you're really going to struggle. With literally only a single Map, you're asking to never get to Tron and never win the game.
The biggest issue is cutting Tron pieces. I cannot say how awful of an idea I think this is. I would NEVER consider playing a Tron deck with less than the full 12 Tron lands. I want to draw them, or rather I need to draw them. They constitute my win condition and I'll have a bad time without them.
I would also question the inclusion of cards like Thirst and Gifts without as much synergy. You cut the Gifts Combo so instead you've just got Mindslaver as a win condition. This puts a bigger emphasis on your Tron lands because without them you're incapable of winning, which again, you cut to some degree. At this point, I'd also question why there's a second Mindslaver as opposed to something like Crucible for the synergy with Gifts (which can be seen in the primer section on it).
Furthermore, your sideboard looks like a mess. You're now adding black for something like Raven's Crime, which is so useless here. It's good in a deck playing 29 lands and 4 Loam, but not here. It's mostly good on turn 1 and 2, not as a top deck later. With just one copy and generally no lands to spare (because you need to make 12 mana + Academy Ruins), you're going to have trouble casting it again. I also don't even know what Loxodon Hierarch is for. It gains you life and blocks? It's just a Timely that's difficult to cast. You won't regenerate anything, I don't think.
The problem with playing Dig is when you get to cast it. You're not casting it until at least turn 4 by my estimate. The problem was never the mid game, it was more of a transition to the mid game. Our early game is usually filled with trying to manage our own game plan (Map and Signet) with interacting with the opponent (Path, Remand). In the kind of time of the game that I want to cast Dig (which is also when I want to cast Gifts), I simply don't have the resources/time to do so. At least with Gifts I have a very good indication of what I'm getting, and I can potentially combo.
I'm not trying to say Dig is a bad card, just that we don't want more of this effect. When have you ever wanted a 5th Gifts? I think 4 is a good number, because too many clog us up. By the time I cast Dig for the full Delve, I could cast other stuff and not be concerned about the mana. Dig is great for decks like UWR Control because they don't get infinite mana, and they don't play Gifts. They have legitimate mana concerns, and in particular, Gifts is bad due to playing so many 4-ofs and having no apparent synergy. I might reconsider Gifts if there was no MB combos with it.
The changes you make are reasonable but I just don't think the card I'd put in place of Verdict is Dig, as I've outlined.
Is it time to revisit gift-less UW tron? That idea should be revisited periodically to see if the deck would be better without 4 gifts, unburial, iona, elesh norn. We could incorporate more fetches into the manabase and play dig instead since the card is super powerful. Play more like a UW control deck with no gifts combo, and simply use tron to cast bigger spells then typical control decks in later game (emrakul, sphinx's rev etc)
The above is a SAMPLE decklist to show the idea, it is not the perfect 60. Even without gifts I think having a timely and oring in the main is fine as extra survival spells. We could easily adjust the numbers and take out white sun's zenith for another win con. I just wanted to try it because its not bad in the combo matchups where we don't want to tap out since that would leave us vulnerable to the combo (unless its emrakul). We have more counterspells in this version of the deck to fight combo like scapeshift and twin. We just want to play like UW control and survive till late game to cast bigger threats that our opponents can't deal with.
If you want to play those cards, go and play Mono-U tron. UW tron is really around the gift package.
I've been runnning 4CC since may and with the meta changing, i'm feeling that it isn't as strong as before so i'm turning myself back to UW tron.
I wanted to know how it performs now and if it is as consistent as mono-U tron (my favorite modern deck so far).
I'm asking for your opinion Darksteel since i know you're the most potent user of the deck since the beginning
(sorry for my english, i'm a french guy )
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Modern:
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
I never said that unburial rites was the only gift package. The strengh of gift is it's flexibility to answer multiple situation (like i said, i'm playing 4CC gift)
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Modern:
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
You bring an interesting point about the Emrakul. Isn't it hard to get into play?
I know it's great when it hits the table but it requires an insane amount of mana and
even more if you're not running Eye of Ugin. I agree with the mindslaver, it's hard to get
rid of it and most deck can't do much agaisn't it and often, only 1 activation screw the opponent.
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Modern:
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Hey guys, this is the list i've been tinkering with (went 4-0 first week, then 3-1, 3-1, 2-2). I've made some adjustments that i felt were appropriate for my local meta. This is the most recent variation i've come up with. However, i really want to put eye of ugin back in, as I've had quite a few games where if i had it, i would have won. However, I have no idea what to cut. The one of repeal and talisman have been greatly appreciated additions, so they're here to stay. Though im thinking of maybe cutting a condescend or remand? My meta tends to be control heavy so the counters are needed (as opposed to the 3 mainboard wraths), though im not sure. Maybe cutting the academy? Though I've gotten great value out of recycling ostone, maps, discarded artifacts etc. Thoughts?
You have to cut a non-land card because you need 24 mana producing lands. Condescend, Oblivion Stone, and Snapcaster are the three that jump out at me the most:
Condescend - It's a fine card but perhaps we don't need this many counters. Remand is particularly good right now because of the trend towards cards like Treasure Cruise. If your meta has few Delve cards, then it's fine to cut Remand instead.
Oblivion Stone - I never like it because it blows up our stuff. You have 5 Signets so it's potentially problematic. Especially given your control meta, how good is the Wrath? You cut the Day and Wrath, indicating you don't want the effect very much, so perhaps this is something to cut.
Snapcaster - With a fewer spell count due to things like Talisman and Oblivion Stone, you may not be getting enough value here. It has always been a flex spot for the deck, so maybe the value it gives isn't high enough.
As a side note, I think the only way Verdict is better than Wrath is if you expect a ton of Geist tempo decks. Outside of that, Wrath is better.
PS. Eye is really good against control and basically a requirement in such a meta.
1) ... why are u playing Iona, Elesh norn and unburial rites if you don't even have gifts in your deck lol.
2) You can probably cut ostone for a white wrath.
3) You can cut academy ruins to play eye. Ruins isn't that good if you don;t have mindslaver,
You bring an interesting point about the Emrakul. Isn't it hard to get into play?
I know it's great when it hits the table but it requires an insane amount of mana and
even more if you're not running Eye of Ugin. I agree with the mindslaver, it's hard to get
rid of it and most deck can't do much agaisn't it and often, only 1 activation screw the opponent.
The problem with Mindlsaver is that it usually requires more slots to run then emrakul, emrakul you only need 1 or 2 depending if you play eye. And its better late game in the sense that you can tutor for your win con (emrakul) and finish the game with map, whereas you have no way to tutor for mindslaver without committing more slots.
I didn't even realize he had no Gifts. That's really bad then. I cannot justify the Gifts combo without Gifts. The whole point is that you tutor for the combo. It doesn't really serve much purpose if you durdle with it and try to find two cards, that's just really awkward.
How do you feel about playing flooded strands in the mana base? maybe cut 1 seachrome or 1 hallowed fountain or 1 celestial colonnade (I always felt 4 was too many, it gives us a lot of ETB tapped lands, I think 3 is the better number, in some matchups where we need to wrath on turn 4 against aggro or gifts on turn 4, sometimes we draw a tapped colonnade and we can't, same thing applies to thirst on turn 3) to play some strands?
So I have not had the chance to actually test it out yet, but owing to the explosion of R/U/X or Just R/U Delver decks recently, as well as Ascedency, I am considering attempting to play a U/W Tron list that has more basic lands then most other versions (Blanking bloodmoon partially which is a major player in my meta), as well as sideboarding 4 leyline of sanctity.
I also considering 2 to 3 Ghostly Prison or 2 to 3 Defense Grid.
Thus having a sideboard that looks something like this
4xLeyline of Sanctity
3xGhostly prison
3xDefense Grid
2xRest in Peace
3xStony Silence/Hurkyl's Recall
Its a slightly fewer options deck with that board, but I suspect I will be seeing alot fewer options.
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Nyarlathotep must all things be told
for he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered. Trade Thread
I've mentioned this before in a post earlier in this thread, but the list in the primer and most of the lists that have been top8ing daily events on MTGO have cut the "5th signet (talisman of progress)" from the deck.
I just want to mention that, since 2010-2013, Gerry Thompson and LSV have made various changes to the deck and wrote articles/posted updated decklists and to this deck, including reid dukes recent list from March 2014. All 3 pros play 4 signets and 1 talisman. I think it isn't just for mana fixing but also allowing you to ramp faster out of the gates in the early game, to wrath on t3 or gifts on t3 and reach later game faster where our bigger spells are online faster.
The fact that the talisman is still in the deck after 4 years of UW tron decklist updates, this should be something for us to consider.
I went 3-1. I'm not gonna write much of a report, but I did run to some funny situations (mainly M2) I'd like to ask about.
M1: Ad Nauseam Unlife
2-0
First game I think he's playing some sort of budget BW tokens list, and then all of a sudden he just kills me. Check out the cards he flips, realize he hasn't got any non-black removal. Next two games gifts for Rites and Iona, gg.
M2: KCI Eggs Tron
0-2
This matchup felt miserable. Game 1 I start with a hand full of early disruption and Gifts, and die to a T4 Emrakul. I side out all of my useless Wraths and Paths and bring in the Negates etc, and once again die to an early Emmy because I simply didn't counter the right things. I had never played against this deck before or really even heard of it. I felt like it didn't even matter if I countered one KCI or whatever, he would just play Open the Vaults next turn. What is this deck's MVP and how do I disrupt their gameplan?
M3: BW Tokens
1-0, went to time.
The first game took way too long mostly due to misplays by both me and my opponent. Ended up winning by swinging with Emrakul for three times in a row at 4 life. I think this would've actually been a draw or a win for him if we'd played more quickly.
M4: Kiki Pod
2-0
I felt ridiculously confident once I knew what I ways playing against. I won Game 1 even though I made an enormous misplay by Giftsing for Elesh and Rites while he had Scooze in play and green mana open (needless to say he ate my Norn). Wrath into card draw into more Wraths into Emrakul. I felt that this line of play wouldn't be possible in Game 2, so I sided out Emrakul, Eye, some Maps and Thirts and brought in all the Twin/Pod hate and Sundering Titan. Made a misplay here, too, by slamming Gifts while he clearly had Mindcensor mana open. Won by casting a Torpor Orb he couldn't remove and attacking with Timely tokens and Colonnade.
This was my first time playing against such a wide variety of decks (been mostly playing against friends to this point). It was fun and the deck feels really powerful, but it clearly requires thinking at every step. I'm happy I bought this deck, gonna do some more testing. I'd like to thank darksteel88 for the Primer, it's been amazingly helpful.
How do you feel about playing flooded strands in the mana base? maybe cut 1 seachrome or 1 hallowed fountain or 1 celestial colonnade (I always felt 4 was too many, it gives us a lot of ETB tapped lands, I think 3 is the better number, in some matchups where we need to wrath on turn 4 against aggro or gifts on turn 4, sometimes we draw a tapped colonnade and we can't, same thing applies to thirst on turn 3) to play some strands?
I personally am not a huge fan but it seems reasonable. You can probably cut a Hallowed Fountain and Seachrome for them. As much as I think Colonnade at 3 might be good, I'm always reminded how handy it is and how happy I am when I get the value off it that I want.
So I have not had the chance to actually test it out yet, but owing to the explosion of R/U/X or Just R/U Delver decks recently, as well as Ascedency, I am considering attempting to play a U/W Tron list that has more basic lands then most other versions (Blanking bloodmoon partially which is a major player in my meta), as well as sideboarding 4 leyline of sanctity.
I also considering 2 to 3 Ghostly Prison or 2 to 3 Defense Grid.
Thus having a sideboard that looks something like this
4xLeyline of Sanctity
3xGhostly prison
3xDefense Grid
2xRest in Peace
3xStony Silence/Hurkyl's Recall
Its a slightly fewer options deck with that board, but I suspect I will be seeing alot fewer options.
If your meta is more narrow, then by all means, make a narrow sideboard.
As far as Blood Moon goes, answers to Blood Moon are better than basics. The biggest issue is actually using Tron with it as opposed to having mana. With 4 Signets you actually have reasonable chances to get your mana.
I've mentioned this before in a post earlier in this thread, but the list in the primer and most of the lists that have been top8ing daily events on MTGO have cut the "5th signet (talisman of progress)" from the deck.
I just want to mention that, since 2010-2013, Gerry Thompson and LSV have made various changes to the deck and wrote articles/posted updated decklists and to this deck, including reid dukes recent list from March 2014. All 3 pros play 4 signets and 1 talisman. I think it isn't just for mana fixing but also allowing you to ramp faster out of the gates in the early game, to wrath on t3 or gifts on t3 and reach later game faster where our bigger spells are online faster.
The fact that the talisman is still in the deck after 4 years of UW tron decklist updates, this should be something for us to consider.
I know they keep liking it but I keep disliking it. Every time I test it, I'm never impressed. It allows you to have turn 2 Path up and ramp, but not a lot else, in my opinion. It might be slightly better if Blood Moon is really popular right now.
It's funny you lost to Eggs because I've never lost to it. I've played against it twice in tournaments, one was the more traditional combo route and one was a create-based list (playing Myr Superion). I dropped exactly one game to the second list and only because I sideboarded strangely. Eggs lists can go any way though, so it's really difficult to suggest what was the problem.
Emrakul is a very rare win condition from them because it's not as reliable as others. You slam your Emrakul and then they play Pestermite or Exarch and suddenly it can't attack. It's not a bad win condition, just very unorthodox. I've only ever seen one person play it at my store, and that was AGES ago.
Eggs is simply a deck where you need to know how it functions. It's difficult to say what to counter (and I'm not entirely sure myself anymore since it keeps changing since the banning). In general you can sort of spot where they're going to go off or when you're getting value on the counter (for example, Remanding Reshape is pretty good).
Iona naming white used to be good because of Second Sunrise and Faith's Reward, but with only one it's mediocre. I probably still go for it though unless I have several counters up.
4 Urza's Tower
3 Urza's Mine
3 Urza's Power Plant
4 Flooded Strand
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Tolaria West
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruins
1 Island
1 Plains
Dudes
2 Trinket Mage
1 Sundering Titan
2 Mindslaver
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Expedition Map
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Path to Exile
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Life from the Loam
3 Remand
1 Detention Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Banishing Light
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Azorius Signet
1 Hallowed Burial
2 Condescend
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Raven's Crime
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Meddling Mage
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Rule of Law
1 Day of Judgment
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Batterskull
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Condemn
Here's a version of this deck I've been working on in this metagame. I'm going for a little less speed, little more control that you guys. Life from the Loam makes gurenteed Academy Ruins/Slaver piles which is nice. Feel free to give it a spin, it's a bit different than the traditional but I think it's fairly solid.
4 Urza's Tower
3 Urza's Mine
3 Urza's Power Plant
4 Flooded Strand
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Tolaria West
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruins
1 Island
1 Plains
Dudes
2 Trinket Mage
1 Sundering Titan
2 Mindslaver
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Expedition Map
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Path to Exile
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Life from the Loam
3 Remand
1 Detention Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Banishing Light
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Azorius Signet
1 Hallowed Burial
2 Condescend
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Raven's Crime
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Meddling Mage
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Rule of Law
1 Day of Judgment
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Batterskull
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Condemn
Here's a version of this deck I've been working on in this metagame. I'm going for a little less speed, little more control that you guys. Life from the Loam makes gurenteed Academy Ruins/Slaver piles which is nice. Feel free to give it a spin, it's a bit different than the traditional but I think it's fairly solid.
The problem with playing Dig is when you get to cast it. You're not casting it until at least turn 4 by my estimate. The problem was never the mid game, it was more of a transition to the mid game. Our early game is usually filled with trying to manage our own game plan (Map and Signet) with interacting with the opponent (Path, Remand). In the kind of time of the game that I want to cast Dig (which is also when I want to cast Gifts), I simply don't have the resources/time to do so. At least with Gifts I have a very good indication of what I'm getting, and I can potentially combo.
I'm not trying to say Dig is a bad card, just that we don't want more of this effect. When have you ever wanted a 5th Gifts? I think 4 is a good number, because too many clog us up. By the time I cast Dig for the full Delve, I could cast other stuff and not be concerned about the mana. Dig is great for decks like UWR Control because they don't get infinite mana, and they don't play Gifts. They have legitimate mana concerns, and in particular, Gifts is bad due to playing so many 4-ofs and having no apparent synergy. I might reconsider Gifts if there was no MB combos with it.
The changes you make are reasonable but I just don't think the card I'd put in place of Verdict is Dig, as I've outlined.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Gifts is half colourless, so you can't just start adding singleton cards from other colours. You're going to have mana consistency problems because you don't have the colour. I tried splashing black once just for Lingering Souls flashback and it went horribly. The problem was always that I either drew the black source and was missing some source, or drew the black card with no sources. Lingering Souls was not even that bad in terms of a card since you cast half of it for white. What's going to happen when you draw Loam with no green sources? What happens when you fetch for the Temple Garden but then need blue mana and don't have it? You even cut a Signet and most of the Maps, so you're really going to struggle. With literally only a single Map, you're asking to never get to Tron and never win the game.
The biggest issue is cutting Tron pieces. I cannot say how awful of an idea I think this is. I would NEVER consider playing a Tron deck with less than the full 12 Tron lands. I want to draw them, or rather I need to draw them. They constitute my win condition and I'll have a bad time without them.
I would also question the inclusion of cards like Thirst and Gifts without as much synergy. You cut the Gifts Combo so instead you've just got Mindslaver as a win condition. This puts a bigger emphasis on your Tron lands because without them you're incapable of winning, which again, you cut to some degree. At this point, I'd also question why there's a second Mindslaver as opposed to something like Crucible for the synergy with Gifts (which can be seen in the primer section on it).
Furthermore, your sideboard looks like a mess. You're now adding black for something like Raven's Crime, which is so useless here. It's good in a deck playing 29 lands and 4 Loam, but not here. It's mostly good on turn 1 and 2, not as a top deck later. With just one copy and generally no lands to spare (because you need to make 12 mana + Academy Ruins), you're going to have trouble casting it again. I also don't even know what Loxodon Hierarch is for. It gains you life and blocks? It's just a Timely that's difficult to cast. You won't regenerate anything, I don't think.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Is it time to revisit gift-less UW tron? That idea should be revisited periodically to see if the deck would be better without 4 gifts, unburial, iona, elesh norn. We could incorporate more fetches into the manabase and play dig instead since the card is super powerful. Play more like a UW control deck with no gifts combo, and simply use tron to cast bigger spells then typical control decks in later game (emrakul, sphinx's rev etc)
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Celestial Colonnade
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Artifacts: 9
4 Expedition Map
4 Azorius Signet
1 Batterskull
Instants: 20
3 Dig Through Time
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
3 Condescend
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 White Sun's Zenith
2 Wrath of God
1 Timely Reinforcements
Enchantments: 1
1 Oblivion Ring
The above is a SAMPLE decklist to show the idea, it is not the perfect 60. Even without gifts I think having a timely and oring in the main is fine as extra survival spells. We could easily adjust the numbers and take out white sun's zenith for another win con. I just wanted to try it because its not bad in the combo matchups where we don't want to tap out since that would leave us vulnerable to the combo (unless its emrakul). We have more counterspells in this version of the deck to fight combo like scapeshift and twin. We just want to play like UW control and survive till late game to cast bigger threats that our opponents can't deal with.
Any comments on this idea?
If you want to play those cards, go and play Mono-U tron. UW tron is really around the gift package.
I've been runnning 4CC since may and with the meta changing, i'm feeling that it isn't as strong as before so i'm turning myself back to UW tron.
I wanted to know how it performs now and if it is as consistent as mono-U tron (my favorite modern deck so far).
I'm asking for your opinion Darksteel since i know you're the most potent user of the deck since the beginning
(sorry for my english, i'm a french guy )
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Legacy :
-Storm
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Legacy :
-Storm
I know it's great when it hits the table but it requires an insane amount of mana and
even more if you're not running Eye of Ugin. I agree with the mindslaver, it's hard to get
rid of it and most deck can't do much agaisn't it and often, only 1 activation screw the opponent.
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Legacy :
-Storm
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Celestial Colonnade
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Seachrome coast
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Academy Ruins
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Elesh Norn
1 Iona
1 Snap caster
Artifacts: 9
3 Expedition Map
4 Azorius Signet
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Talisman of Dominance
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Path to Exile
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Remand
3 Condescend
1 Repeal
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Sorceries: 2
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Unburial Rites
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Topor Orb
1 Detention Sphere
2 Suppression Field
2 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
2 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Day of Judgement
1 Wrath of God
Condescend - It's a fine card but perhaps we don't need this many counters. Remand is particularly good right now because of the trend towards cards like Treasure Cruise. If your meta has few Delve cards, then it's fine to cut Remand instead.
Oblivion Stone - I never like it because it blows up our stuff. You have 5 Signets so it's potentially problematic. Especially given your control meta, how good is the Wrath? You cut the Day and Wrath, indicating you don't want the effect very much, so perhaps this is something to cut.
Snapcaster - With a fewer spell count due to things like Talisman and Oblivion Stone, you may not be getting enough value here. It has always been a flex spot for the deck, so maybe the value it gives isn't high enough.
As a side note, I think the only way Verdict is better than Wrath is if you expect a ton of Geist tempo decks. Outside of that, Wrath is better.
PS. Eye is really good against control and basically a requirement in such a meta.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
2) You can probably cut ostone for a white wrath.
3) You can cut academy ruins to play eye. Ruins isn't that good if you don;t have mindslaver,
The problem with Mindlsaver is that it usually requires more slots to run then emrakul, emrakul you only need 1 or 2 depending if you play eye. And its better late game in the sense that you can tutor for your win con (emrakul) and finish the game with map, whereas you have no way to tutor for mindslaver without committing more slots.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
How do you feel about playing flooded strands in the mana base? maybe cut 1 seachrome or 1 hallowed fountain or 1 celestial colonnade (I always felt 4 was too many, it gives us a lot of ETB tapped lands, I think 3 is the better number, in some matchups where we need to wrath on turn 4 against aggro or gifts on turn 4, sometimes we draw a tapped colonnade and we can't, same thing applies to thirst on turn 3) to play some strands?
I also considering 2 to 3 Ghostly Prison or 2 to 3 Defense Grid.
Thus having a sideboard that looks something like this
4xLeyline of Sanctity
3xGhostly prison
3xDefense Grid
2xRest in Peace
3xStony Silence/Hurkyl's Recall
Its a slightly fewer options deck with that board, but I suspect I will be seeing alot fewer options.
for he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered.
Trade Thread
I just want to mention that, since 2010-2013, Gerry Thompson and LSV have made various changes to the deck and wrote articles/posted updated decklists and to this deck, including reid dukes recent list from March 2014. All 3 pros play 4 signets and 1 talisman. I think it isn't just for mana fixing but also allowing you to ramp faster out of the gates in the early game, to wrath on t3 or gifts on t3 and reach later game faster where our bigger spells are online faster.
The fact that the talisman is still in the deck after 4 years of UW tron decklist updates, this should be something for us to consider.
4 Urza’s Mine
4 Urza’s Power Plant
4 Urza’s Tower
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Eye of Ugin
Creatures: 4
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Expedition Map
4 Azorius Signet
Instants: 19
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Remand
4 Path to Exile
2 Condescend
1 Sphinx’s Revelation
Sorceries: 5
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Unburial Rites
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Suppression Field
1 Torpor Orb
1 Rule of Law
3 Negate
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Spellskite
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sundering Titan
I went 3-1. I'm not gonna write much of a report, but I did run to some funny situations (mainly M2) I'd like to ask about.
M1: Ad Nauseam Unlife
2-0
First game I think he's playing some sort of budget BW tokens list, and then all of a sudden he just kills me. Check out the cards he flips, realize he hasn't got any non-black removal. Next two games gifts for Rites and Iona, gg.
M2: KCI Eggs Tron
0-2
This matchup felt miserable. Game 1 I start with a hand full of early disruption and Gifts, and die to a T4 Emrakul. I side out all of my useless Wraths and Paths and bring in the Negates etc, and once again die to an early Emmy because I simply didn't counter the right things. I had never played against this deck before or really even heard of it. I felt like it didn't even matter if I countered one KCI or whatever, he would just play Open the Vaults next turn. What is this deck's MVP and how do I disrupt their gameplan?
M3: BW Tokens
1-0, went to time.
The first game took way too long mostly due to misplays by both me and my opponent. Ended up winning by swinging with Emrakul for three times in a row at 4 life. I think this would've actually been a draw or a win for him if we'd played more quickly.
M4: Kiki Pod
2-0
I felt ridiculously confident once I knew what I ways playing against. I won Game 1 even though I made an enormous misplay by Giftsing for Elesh and Rites while he had Scooze in play and green mana open (needless to say he ate my Norn). Wrath into card draw into more Wraths into Emrakul. I felt that this line of play wouldn't be possible in Game 2, so I sided out Emrakul, Eye, some Maps and Thirts and brought in all the Twin/Pod hate and Sundering Titan. Made a misplay here, too, by slamming Gifts while he clearly had Mindcensor mana open. Won by casting a Torpor Orb he couldn't remove and attacking with Timely tokens and Colonnade.
This was my first time playing against such a wide variety of decks (been mostly playing against friends to this point). It was fun and the deck feels really powerful, but it clearly requires thinking at every step. I'm happy I bought this deck, gonna do some more testing. I'd like to thank darksteel88 for the Primer, it's been amazingly helpful.
If your meta is more narrow, then by all means, make a narrow sideboard.
As far as Blood Moon goes, answers to Blood Moon are better than basics. The biggest issue is actually using Tron with it as opposed to having mana. With 4 Signets you actually have reasonable chances to get your mana.
I know they keep liking it but I keep disliking it. Every time I test it, I'm never impressed. It allows you to have turn 2 Path up and ramp, but not a lot else, in my opinion. It might be slightly better if Blood Moon is really popular right now.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
It's funny you lost to Eggs because I've never lost to it. I've played against it twice in tournaments, one was the more traditional combo route and one was a create-based list (playing Myr Superion). I dropped exactly one game to the second list and only because I sideboarded strangely. Eggs lists can go any way though, so it's really difficult to suggest what was the problem.
Emrakul is a very rare win condition from them because it's not as reliable as others. You slam your Emrakul and then they play Pestermite or Exarch and suddenly it can't attack. It's not a bad win condition, just very unorthodox. I've only ever seen one person play it at my store, and that was AGES ago.
Eggs is simply a deck where you need to know how it functions. It's difficult to say what to counter (and I'm not entirely sure myself anymore since it keeps changing since the banning). In general you can sort of spot where they're going to go off or when you're getting value on the counter (for example, Remanding Reshape is pretty good).
Iona naming white used to be good because of Second Sunrise and Faith's Reward, but with only one it's mediocre. I probably still go for it though unless I have several counters up.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer