For the next time I try to borrow a Crucible of Worlds and cut a Map for it which I hope rise the chance of playing the Thopter Sword Combo ( gift for Ruins Sword Fabric and Crucible) this time it was often just a winmore after Iona looked the opponent away.
Second thing
Mindslaver is a good card but its just to clumsy in this deck. It belongs in the Mono U-Tron Version
And last but not least I need a reanimation target against Aggro/Burn decks.
Two of my three looses were against Aggro and Burn
G1 Against RG Ponza
R1 Iona on Red is GG
R2 Thopter Swords against a flooded enemy are GG too
G2 Against 8-Whack
R1 Aggro things
R2 Iona on Red against a Mono R Deck is GG
R3 Aggro things plus *****ty draws
G3 and G4 against Scapeshift
You guys know it. Iona on green is a good thing.
G5 Against Jund
Mulligan, Discard, Lilli, no blue sources all together make a terrible match
G6 Against Burn
The Match which meant a lot to me cause it was prices or no prices.
R1 I reanimated Elesh Norn to keep his board clean. 1 round before I would kill him he topdecked the last needed bolt.
R2 He was more agressive than R1 and I had to choose between Iona and die on his combat or Elesh and die to a bolt.
I thought about sth like Griselbrand which could give me lifepoints. Wurmcoil is to easy to remove in my oppinion.
Nice report, Sun95. You may not even need another reanimation target for burn or aggro. Iona and Elesh Norn cover those matchups, but I'd say if those archetypes are a big part of your meta, up your timely reinforcements count.
hi guys, i'm a new player of this deck and in my local meta,the decks are more aggro creatures than other stuff.. I'm thinking in using this current list as a main deck, what do you guys think about this list? (i've tested online and seems to work)
I've tested before with more counters, like Remand and Spell Snare but looks like more fragil
Celestial Colonnade is good, play some of them instead of some things, probably Flooded Strands.
Snow-Covered basics are better in the second ones because of Gifts.
Emrakul, the Promised End isn't that great, in my opinion. I don't find there's enough value in it, and usually some other card is good enough to bridge the gap if you need to go from 8-10 to 15. But I'm also interested in hearing your thoughts because I don't have a ton of testing data for it.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
1) i've tested with two colonnades and i note some things: that i always want to have 3 mana in turn 3 and drawing a colonnade while are you needing to close your 3 mana is bad for the match. Sure the colonnade are good, but as my meta is aggro, i dont like that much the colonnade in that case. Flooded strand helps me to filter the deck and i lot of times helps me to cast something from the grave when i draw a unburial rites, since i'm using godless shrine. (i'm thinking of using Engineered Explosives because of that too);
2)Actually i'm using 2 snow covered lands (a island and a plains) but i forgot to put in the list
3) About Emrakul, the Promised End, i actually love that card in this deck. Does a great job against decks that burn it selfs like death shadow and zoo (fetching and shocking it selfs). I lot of times it's just a hit kill because has flying and protection from instant spells. But if i draw it, i can cast it for 9-10 mana usually, than his effect trigger and i try to screw the oponent's field.
i was testing this deck online, but now i bought the remaining cards and i thinking of testing next week..
For my sideboard, i'm using i lot of counterspells as dispel, negate and spell pierce. Maybespellskite whould be a good card to sideboard too
Celestial Collonade is an amazing magic card and it is another win condition in our deck. Though I see the merit in what you are saying, I really encourage it as an include. If you want to make sure you have 3 mana on turn 3, I would consider adding 1 or 2 more lands to your deck. This deck usually runs 24-25 lands and you running less than this (23 lands) may be hurting your chances of hitting your land drops when you need it. The below article does a good job in explaining hitting land drops and lands required in a 60-card deck. Hope it helps!
This card can somewhat act like a Leyline of Sanctity. It does everything Leyline does but slightly more. It's a flying creature, so it has an added benefit of attacking with a drawback of dying. Probably not better than Leyline because you don't get it for free sometimes, but it's interesting because as a creature you can Gifts combo it. If I had to make a judgement call, I wouldn't play it.
I really don't think anything in this set is that good for us. Karn isn't good enough when it's competing with Gifts/Jace for a draw source, and the ultimate isn't powerful enough. It also has a drawback of potentially losing us an important card. I could be wrong about it, but I would far rather slot in Jace. I think I'd rather play TKS as well. Damping Sphere is a great card, but it's also good against us.
The biggest thing with this set is that it's focused around historic cards. We do play artifacts, but our historic count isn't high enough because our only legendary creatures also win the game (and are few in number). They're also typically not the kind of gameplan we're trying to play, and do things like tap creatures or whatever. They're just not at a high enough level for Modern.
Moved back to Canada this week, I'm going to try the deck tomorrow at the LGS of the town my parents live in. I'm pretty happy with the mainboard right now, using two Thought-Knot Seer as an earlier beater as well as discard. The sideboard is always the part I stress out the most about. Every time I look at it, I think there must be something better than Pithing Needle, but anything else I think of, it affects the game in lot of similar ways.
I was thinking of experimenting with adding some number of Damping Sphere but because this is an LGS I have never been to before, I'm wondering if I should even change anything, and just see how I roll with the 75 as is. If anyone has any advice or tips, I'm always all ears!
Hey Guys, I'm refreshing my UW gift tron deck and I've got few doubts.
Lets start with the signet/talisman suite. I used to play with 4/5 and now I see that most of You run just 3 . Ramping to 4-drops (gifts ungiven / mass removals/seers) wasn't the most important part of the deck vs many strategies? I wonder what happen, can someone clarify this topic? (TBH the "dead card" argument is simply not enough for me - we run 4x thirst for knowledge here with a low artifact count so if signets/talismans don't ramp us, they got the role to serve)
Second, I see that many Guys run thought-knot seers. I like the idea but I wonder why You try them along with mass removal package (where we don't exacly want to smash both IMO) not better to have some seers in the SB and take them for mass removal suite in game 2/3? I'm curious about Your reasoning here.
Last thing is celestial colonnade playability in the "post push-field-of-ruin" world. Finishing games with manlands seems to be a real trouble nowadays - what are Your exeperiences here? Personaly, I'm testing temple of enlightenment insted of colonnades (I sold my own and I'm w8ing for reprint :D)
Temple is really nice, scry 1 helps to draw "serious" cards - but I'm not sure if it's optimal (One/two years ago colonnade was a powerhouse but I'm also not sure if I can count on them - too many ponza/push decks in my local meta).
I would be happy to read Your answers thx for Your time Guys
Dassul, I can only speak for myself and my own deck, but I can try and answer some of what you bring up in your post above.
1: Right now, I run two signets and one talisman, and those, in addition to the 3 maps, the Engineered Explosives, and the 3-4 other artifacts that serve as utility cards or win conditions, I find I never really have an issue with TfK discards. I think bulking up on extra artifacts just for the sake of having extra artifacts to discard isn't the best use of our space, and I would rather have those extra 2-3 spots taken up with counter magic or something like Detention Sphere or Blessed Alliance to give the deck extra game against weaker matchups game 1.
2. I think you're totally right about main-deck Thought-knot Seer. I was trying them in my deck and felt they could be better replaced with something that fits more with our main-deck plan. Like I wrote above, other people's lists might have different set ups than my own that can optimise TkS in the main, but for myself, I'm going to keep exploring different options.
3. I only run two Colonnades in my deck, and only because I happened to buy two before they went crazy sky high in price. Generally speaking, I don't like enter tapped lands as a rule, but my philosophy with this deck is to be as flexible and as full of answers as possible at all times. Being able to answer whatever deck we're paired against with a variety of answers is best, and if they stone rain or field of ruin a colonnade instead of a tron piece, that's fine with me. I think, like you mentioned, it's meta dependent and if you're finding so much land destruction going on, then I could 100% see using a Temple as a way to get value off a land drop if it might get blasted later on.
Like I said, this is all based on my own experiences with the deck, and I'm always shifting cards in and out to see what sticks and what doesn't. I would interested in seeing your list and what experiences you've had with the deck, especially since you're coming back to it after some time away.
Thx for Your opinion Alex
Mostly I'm a mono-U tron player (but in some 2015/2016 I used to run UW gifts-tron deck). Nowdays my local meta goes into the direction where playin tron lands is really hard (GW companys / a lot of GR ponza decks / uw control / blue moon even grixis control maindeck fulminator mages :P) I always liked UW gifts for its resilience against blood moon and land destroy effects.
I did some testings to clarify some things on my own:
1. I suppose that You have right about cutting signets/talisman ramp package - it's simply not enough even against matchups where Iona shut down a color or Elesh norn cannot be answered. Cutting them for smth like additional removal/counter spells is a must. That's what I realized after playin with "gift-combo-depend" list (with 5 and later 4 signets for fast ramp - it didn't worked like it used to be :P).
2. About Thought-knot seers, I think that this is the card what we really needed in the deck. He's proactive play against combo where we always had really tough matchup. The question is how to include them in mainboard to not lose the edge against aggro? The mass removal suite is really good here...maybe goin for more timely reinforcements is a clue here? (in the past some lists played 2/3 timely in place of mass removal suite)
3. Yea, the colonnade price is a bit high but I don't play them beacuse of sooooo much hate nowdays. IMO it's not that much necessary land as Many UW-tron players think - I agree that sometimes it's a nice finisher - but in the world of field of ruin and fatal push (where our colonnade is the only one push target along with snapcaster) it's just a waste of land slot. On the other hand we have temple of enlightenment, which is natural replacement for colonnade - and the scry1 effect is really strong here in the deck (we just don't want to draw certain cards).
4. I tried to get back to 12 tron lands version and I don't think that it's really better than "classic" 10 land list. In the grindy matchups we are already digging for value (and often these kind of decks have a lot of ponza effects so these 2 lands don't really matter). For aggro/combo decks We don't need tron too - and these 2 more colored lands does wonders for Our manabase.
At the moment my list looks something like this (but I already change it few times and I still cannot find the optimal bulid):
The list is a bit high on counterspells (as for UW gifts tron) and I use split for gifts purpose. Adarkar wastes is my dualland of choice (for casting thought-knot seers from SB). The thought-knot seers are mine "leyline of sanctity" (TBH I used to run 4 of them before and I never liked them - or better: I never know how to play with them :D).
I'm not sure about lack of some utility land like academy ruins or even haven of the spirit dragon. Have to say that I don't really like these lands here beacuse we already use graveyard a lot - and we will get gravehate in games 2/3.
I'm totally not sold on this list and I will appreciate Your ideas and help
EDIT: already made some changes:
-1 negate + 1 blessed alliance in the mainboard
and in SB
-1 dispel + 1 negate
-1 ghostly prison + 1 spell snare
-1 rule of law + 1 celestial purge
I'm also thinkin about removing mana leak from main, it's too often dead card (maybe remand should come back?)
EDIT2:
-1 temple of enlightenment + 1 plains (too many field of ruins in my meta, I added 1 more plains to achive double white against aggro/midrange)
-1 mana leak +1 negate (I've got really nice removal package and I needed hard answer for cards like karn/all is dust/JTMS and other noncreature threats, we use to play long game if we can't combo and mana leak sux there)
IN SB:
-1 negate +1 spell snare (negate moves to main and I've got slot for another spell snare against fast decks/snapcasters/storm and many other jundish lists)
-1 pithing needle + 1 suppression field (I'm trying this card for the needle slot, I used to play it before and it was nice)
Imo it's bit heavy on finishers and too low on counterspells (and I don't trust crucible package anymore) but it's definitely an interesting take on Our deck - what do You think about deck choices?
Anyone tested champion of Wits in thirst slot? I'm not sure about creature>instant but it gots some advantages.
I agree the deck seems a little top heavy. It just has so many late game cards and I think it might have one or two too many. He shaved on Signets and Maps, plus went to the 10 Tron count to afford the manabase. Honestly, not sure how clunky it is, because Maps and Signets themselves are often as clunky.
Champion of Wits is really the only interesting card. I'm still not sure what I think about it, but it doesn't seem like the worst idea I've ever seen. The merit of it blocking has potential to offset the extra card. It is a bit awkward that you're trading card advantage for a small creature on board. On one hand, it does block, but it also does give your opponent opportunities to use otherwise dead removal spells. Eternalize is a nice mechanic though. I'm not convinced it is better, but it could end up like Wall of Omens, where it's better than Remand in some metas because it blocks. My gut tells me that the small size on this doesn't make it enough better than Thirst, but I've been wrong before.
I have warmed up a lot to Teferi having played with it/against it in various formats. The card untapping lands makes it so easy to play on 5 and leave up Remand / Path.
Can You share your last list Darksteel? I'm gonna get the "chumpion of wits" and try them. But TBH I'm not sure if creature is better than instant in this slot - eternalize is sweet - but when we can active this we are already in the good spot I think.
I'm confused with remands these days... I'm still tryin "hard answers", Well it seems that negate has really good time atm.
I haven't played the deck recently. As much as I love it, now that I have money to afford other decks, I've been playing a lot of stuff. As you can see from my sig I'm playing like basically everything now.
Curious if anyone has tried champion of wits - I was going to pull the trigger on them to test but I'm increasingly skeptical that paying 2U for a 2/1 with a faithless looting stapled to it is where I want to be. When thirst is at its worse, you still get faithless looting plus a (decent to good) card. It seems unlikely that a 2/1 body would ever be better than the average decent card in the deck - and digging one more deep to search out a missing tron land just seems way better. The eternalize is cool but seems a little win-more. I could more imagine playing one as part of a gifts package so that its value even if binned than playing a full set over TFK.
Similarly - is haven of the spirit dragon ever relevant? The guy on card knock life talks about chaining ugins, the odds they deal with ugin #1 are very low, but I could more imagine him getting countered or thoughtseized I guess, and maybe the crucible package makes it possible to tutor him late (crucible, ugin, haven and whatever).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Sometimes creatures are better than draw spells. The 2/1 body isn't appealing though. Like Wall of Omens is good sometimes because it blocks a lot of things, but Champion is only sometimes trading. It can probably trade a good amount, but like I said, it's also giving your opponent an outlet to use otherwise dead removal spells.
I also don't think Haven is that important. It's not the worst card I've ever seen or tested, but it's fine. I don't tend to need a second Ugin though, I can't tell you the last time I had to trade it. Now, I also don't know if I've gotten into situations where I've taken alternative lines because it would die. I would guess probably never. It's just almost always wrathing the board and then it's hard for opponents to come back. Even if it dies, killing everything is typically good enough to stabilize.
I may play the deck again sometime soon, but not enough to test Champion and make a decision about it. I took UWR for a spin last time.
3 Urza's Mine
3 Urza's Power Plant
1 Academy Ruins
2 Celestial Colonade
2 Flooded Strand
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Watery Grave
1 Plains
1 Snow Covered Plains
1 Island
1 Snow Covered Island
4 Gifts Ungiven
4 Expedition Map
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Unburial Rites
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Fabricate
1 Mindslaver
3 Talisman of Progress
1 Mana Leak
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Condescend
1 Spell Pierce
1 Supreme Will
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Negate
2 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ashen Rider
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Ceremonious Rejection
For the next time I try to borrow a Crucible of Worlds and cut a Map for it which I hope rise the chance of playing the Thopter Sword Combo ( gift for Ruins Sword Fabric and Crucible) this time it was often just a winmore after Iona looked the opponent away.
Second thing
Mindslaver is a good card but its just to clumsy in this deck. It belongs in the Mono U-Tron Version
And last but not least I need a reanimation target against Aggro/Burn decks.
Two of my three looses were against Aggro and Burn
G1 Against RG Ponza
R1 Iona on Red is GG
R2 Thopter Swords against a flooded enemy are GG too
G2 Against 8-Whack
R1 Aggro things
R2 Iona on Red against a Mono R Deck is GG
R3 Aggro things plus *****ty draws
G3 and G4 against Scapeshift
You guys know it. Iona on green is a good thing.
G5 Against Jund
Mulligan, Discard, Lilli, no blue sources all together make a terrible match
G6 Against Burn
The Match which meant a lot to me cause it was prices or no prices.
R1 I reanimated Elesh Norn to keep his board clean. 1 round before I would kill him he topdecked the last needed bolt.
R2 He was more agressive than R1 and I had to choose between Iona and die on his combat or Elesh and die to a bolt.
I thought about sth like Griselbrand which could give me lifepoints. Wurmcoil is to easy to remove in my oppinion.
Someone got tipps or questions?
I've tested before with more counters, like Remand and Spell Snare but looks like more fragil
4x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
2x Plains
3x Urza's Mine
3x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Unburial Rites
1x Wrath of God
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Emrakul, the Promised End
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Sundering Titan
2x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Condescend
4x Gifts Ungiven
1x Noxious Revival
4x Path to Exile
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Azorius Signet
2x Expedition Map
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
1) i've tested with two colonnades and i note some things: that i always want to have 3 mana in turn 3 and drawing a colonnade while are you needing to close your 3 mana is bad for the match. Sure the colonnade are good, but as my meta is aggro, i dont like that much the colonnade in that case. Flooded strand helps me to filter the deck and i lot of times helps me to cast something from the grave when i draw a unburial rites, since i'm using godless shrine. (i'm thinking of using Engineered Explosives because of that too);
2)Actually i'm using 2 snow covered lands (a island and a plains) but i forgot to put in the list
3) About Emrakul, the Promised End, i actually love that card in this deck. Does a great job against decks that burn it selfs like death shadow and zoo (fetching and shocking it selfs). I lot of times it's just a hit kill because has flying and protection from instant spells. But if i draw it, i can cast it for 9-10 mana usually, than his effect trigger and i try to screw the oponent's field.
i was testing this deck online, but now i bought the remaining cards and i thinking of testing next week..
For my sideboard, i'm using i lot of counterspells as dispel, negate and spell pierce. Maybespellskite whould be a good card to sideboard too
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-lands-do-you-need-to-consistently-hit-your-land-drops/
What cards of Dominaria are you excited to try out?
RBridgevineB
RGR/G EldraziX
UBlue MoonR
UU/W TronW
This card can somewhat act like a Leyline of Sanctity. It does everything Leyline does but slightly more. It's a flying creature, so it has an added benefit of attacking with a drawback of dying. Probably not better than Leyline because you don't get it for free sometimes, but it's interesting because as a creature you can Gifts combo it. If I had to make a judgement call, I wouldn't play it.
I really don't think anything in this set is that good for us. Karn isn't good enough when it's competing with Gifts/Jace for a draw source, and the ultimate isn't powerful enough. It also has a drawback of potentially losing us an important card. I could be wrong about it, but I would far rather slot in Jace. I think I'd rather play TKS as well. Damping Sphere is a great card, but it's also good against us.
The biggest thing with this set is that it's focused around historic cards. We do play artifacts, but our historic count isn't high enough because our only legendary creatures also win the game (and are few in number). They're also typically not the kind of gameplan we're trying to play, and do things like tap creatures or whatever. They're just not at a high enough level for Modern.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I was thinking of experimenting with adding some number of Damping Sphere but because this is an LGS I have never been to before, I'm wondering if I should even change anything, and just see how I roll with the 75 as is. If anyone has any advice or tips, I'm always all ears!
1x Academy Ruins
2x Celestial Colonnade
1x Field of Ruin
2x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Seachrome Coast
1x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Sorcery (4)
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Unburial Rites
1x Wrath of God
Instant (17)
1x Blessed Alliance
3x Condescend
4x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile
1x Secure the Wastes
1x Syncopate
3x Thirst for Knowledge
2x Azorius Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Expedition Map
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Talisman of Progress
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creature (6)
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Snapcaster Mage
2x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Disenchant
1x Dispel
2x Ghostly Prison
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Negate
1x Pithing Needle
2x Timely Reinforcements
Lets start with the signet/talisman suite. I used to play with 4/5 and now I see that most of You run just 3 . Ramping to 4-drops (gifts ungiven / mass removals/seers) wasn't the most important part of the deck vs many strategies? I wonder what happen, can someone clarify this topic? (TBH the "dead card" argument is simply not enough for me - we run 4x thirst for knowledge here with a low artifact count so if signets/talismans don't ramp us, they got the role to serve)
Second, I see that many Guys run thought-knot seers. I like the idea but I wonder why You try them along with mass removal package (where we don't exacly want to smash both IMO) not better to have some seers in the SB and take them for mass removal suite in game 2/3? I'm curious about Your reasoning here.
Last thing is celestial colonnade playability in the "post push-field-of-ruin" world. Finishing games with manlands seems to be a real trouble nowadays - what are Your exeperiences here? Personaly, I'm testing temple of enlightenment insted of colonnades (I sold my own and I'm w8ing for reprint :D)
Temple is really nice, scry 1 helps to draw "serious" cards - but I'm not sure if it's optimal (One/two years ago colonnade was a powerhouse but I'm also not sure if I can count on them - too many ponza/push decks in my local meta).
I would be happy to read Your answers thx for Your time Guys
1: Right now, I run two signets and one talisman, and those, in addition to the 3 maps, the Engineered Explosives, and the 3-4 other artifacts that serve as utility cards or win conditions, I find I never really have an issue with TfK discards. I think bulking up on extra artifacts just for the sake of having extra artifacts to discard isn't the best use of our space, and I would rather have those extra 2-3 spots taken up with counter magic or something like Detention Sphere or Blessed Alliance to give the deck extra game against weaker matchups game 1.
2. I think you're totally right about main-deck Thought-knot Seer. I was trying them in my deck and felt they could be better replaced with something that fits more with our main-deck plan. Like I wrote above, other people's lists might have different set ups than my own that can optimise TkS in the main, but for myself, I'm going to keep exploring different options.
3. I only run two Colonnades in my deck, and only because I happened to buy two before they went crazy sky high in price. Generally speaking, I don't like enter tapped lands as a rule, but my philosophy with this deck is to be as flexible and as full of answers as possible at all times. Being able to answer whatever deck we're paired against with a variety of answers is best, and if they stone rain or field of ruin a colonnade instead of a tron piece, that's fine with me. I think, like you mentioned, it's meta dependent and if you're finding so much land destruction going on, then I could 100% see using a Temple as a way to get value off a land drop if it might get blasted later on.
Like I said, this is all based on my own experiences with the deck, and I'm always shifting cards in and out to see what sticks and what doesn't. I would interested in seeing your list and what experiences you've had with the deck, especially since you're coming back to it after some time away.
Mostly I'm a mono-U tron player (but in some 2015/2016 I used to run UW gifts-tron deck). Nowdays my local meta goes into the direction where playin tron lands is really hard (GW companys / a lot of GR ponza decks / uw control / blue moon even grixis control maindeck fulminator mages :P) I always liked UW gifts for its resilience against blood moon and land destroy effects.
I did some testings to clarify some things on my own:
1. I suppose that You have right about cutting signets/talisman ramp package - it's simply not enough even against matchups where Iona shut down a color or Elesh norn cannot be answered. Cutting them for smth like additional removal/counter spells is a must. That's what I realized after playin with "gift-combo-depend" list (with 5 and later 4 signets for fast ramp - it didn't worked like it used to be :P).
2. About Thought-knot seers, I think that this is the card what we really needed in the deck. He's proactive play against combo where we always had really tough matchup. The question is how to include them in mainboard to not lose the edge against aggro? The mass removal suite is really good here...maybe goin for more timely reinforcements is a clue here? (in the past some lists played 2/3 timely in place of mass removal suite)
3. Yea, the colonnade price is a bit high but I don't play them beacuse of sooooo much hate nowdays. IMO it's not that much necessary land as Many UW-tron players think - I agree that sometimes it's a nice finisher - but in the world of field of ruin and fatal push (where our colonnade is the only one push target along with snapcaster) it's just a waste of land slot. On the other hand we have temple of enlightenment, which is natural replacement for colonnade - and the scry1 effect is really strong here in the deck (we just don't want to draw certain cards).
4. I tried to get back to 12 tron lands version and I don't think that it's really better than "classic" 10 land list. In the grindy matchups we are already digging for value (and often these kind of decks have a lot of ponza effects so these 2 lands don't really matter). For aggro/combo decks We don't need tron too - and these 2 more colored lands does wonders for Our manabase.
At the moment my list looks something like this (but I already change it few times and I still cannot find the optimal bulid):
3 Urza's Mine
3 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 adarkar wastes
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Plains
1 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
3 Flooded Strand
1 field of ruin
artifacts (5):
2 Expedition Map
2 Azorius Signet
1 Talisman of Progress
creatures (5):
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ugin, the spirit dragon
removal (10):
1 blessed alliance
4 Path to Exile
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Repeal
the "gift" things (9):
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Unburial Rites
counterspells (6):
2 negate
1 spell burst
2 Condescend
1 supreme will
1 suppression field
1 Engineered Explosives
1 negate
1 dispel
2 spell snare
1 disenchant
1 surgical extraction
1 relic of progenitus
1 timely reinforcements
2 celestial purge
3 thought-knot seer
The list is a bit high on counterspells (as for UW gifts tron) and I use split for gifts purpose. Adarkar wastes is my dualland of choice (for casting thought-knot seers from SB). The thought-knot seers are mine "leyline of sanctity" (TBH I used to run 4 of them before and I never liked them - or better: I never know how to play with them :D).
I'm not sure about lack of some utility land like academy ruins or even haven of the spirit dragon. Have to say that I don't really like these lands here beacuse we already use graveyard a lot - and we will get gravehate in games 2/3.
I'm totally not sold on this list and I will appreciate Your ideas and help
EDIT: already made some changes:
-1 negate + 1 blessed alliance in the mainboard
and in SB
-1 dispel + 1 negate
-1 ghostly prison + 1 spell snare
-1 rule of law + 1 celestial purge
I'm also thinkin about removing mana leak from main, it's too often dead card (maybe remand should come back?)
EDIT2:
-1 temple of enlightenment + 1 plains (too many field of ruins in my meta, I added 1 more plains to achive double white against aggro/midrange)
-1 mana leak +1 negate (I've got really nice removal package and I needed hard answer for cards like karn/all is dust/JTMS and other noncreature threats, we use to play long game if we can't combo and mana leak sux there)
IN SB:
-1 negate +1 spell snare (negate moves to main and I've got slot for another spell snare against fast decks/snapcasters/storm and many other jundish lists)
-1 pithing needle + 1 suppression field (I'm trying this card for the needle slot, I used to play it before and it was nice)
Imo it's bit heavy on finishers and too low on counterspells (and I don't trust crucible package anymore) but it's definitely an interesting take on Our deck - what do You think about deck choices?
Anyone tested champion of Wits in thirst slot? I'm not sure about creature>instant but it gots some advantages.
Champion of Wits is really the only interesting card. I'm still not sure what I think about it, but it doesn't seem like the worst idea I've ever seen. The merit of it blocking has potential to offset the extra card. It is a bit awkward that you're trading card advantage for a small creature on board. On one hand, it does block, but it also does give your opponent opportunities to use otherwise dead removal spells. Eternalize is a nice mechanic though. I'm not convinced it is better, but it could end up like Wall of Omens, where it's better than Remand in some metas because it blocks. My gut tells me that the small size on this doesn't make it enough better than Thirst, but I've been wrong before.
I have warmed up a lot to Teferi having played with it/against it in various formats. The card untapping lands makes it so easy to play on 5 and leave up Remand / Path.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I'm confused with remands these days... I'm still tryin "hard answers", Well it seems that negate has really good time atm.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Similarly - is haven of the spirit dragon ever relevant? The guy on card knock life talks about chaining ugins, the odds they deal with ugin #1 are very low, but I could more imagine him getting countered or thoughtseized I guess, and maybe the crucible package makes it possible to tutor him late (crucible, ugin, haven and whatever).
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I also don't think Haven is that important. It's not the worst card I've ever seen or tested, but it's fine. I don't tend to need a second Ugin though, I can't tell you the last time I had to trade it. Now, I also don't know if I've gotten into situations where I've taken alternative lines because it would die. I would guess probably never. It's just almost always wrathing the board and then it's hard for opponents to come back. Even if it dies, killing everything is typically good enough to stabilize.
I may play the deck again sometime soon, but not enough to test Champion and make a decision about it. I took UWR for a spin last time.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer