I think it's an idea worth testing, but on paper I don't think it's going to give you the results you're after. If you're dropping Tron, you're removing the "go big" plan that the deck seeks to do. Better mana is certainly a positive, but I don't think temples are going to do much since they only help to accelerate specific threats instead of just general "more mana"
In addition, I think if you want to drop Tron you'd just be better served with Esper Gifts instead of trying to force Eldrazi. You can still run Mindslaver Emrakul as an end game threat, but you'll just have to manually get up the mana needed instead of skipping a bit with Tron lands.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
This is the deck as it stands right now. Some of the sideboard floats in and out depending on what I think I'm going up against. I have a real hard time dealing with enter-tapped lands, so I only run 2 Celestial Colonnade, and if there was anything better available, I would probably opt for that. A one-of Batterskull or Wurmcoil Engine sometimes makes its way in like I wrote above, but right now, it's meant to be a little more control focused.
I've just moved to 2 Colonnades from 4 as well, and I've really liked it. I switched it for Seachrome, which can still enter tapped, but generally I found I needed it untapped in those early turns which Seachrome at least does. Colonnade is usually my main way of winning, but that constant tapped can be killer.
I see you're running the O Stone and EE main like Darksteel is, how have you liked it? Personally I've loved having it, and looping it over and over has been amazing.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
O-stone and EE are amazing. My meta around here is is a lot of small creatures (affinity or elves for example), or otherwise difficult to remove permanents like Bogles, and having a couple of threatening answers besides the sweepers has never felt wrong to me.
I used to run Seachrome Coast as well, which I switched out for the Godless Shrine, for exactly the same reason I only run two Colonnades. Generally, I'm way more comfortable being 2 life down with an untapped land, than ripping an "enters tapped" land right when I don't need it. I've had a lot of games that came down to me drawing *any* untapped land to get me back in, and not getting there. It may only be anecdotal evidence, but I find that Godless gives me a lot more flexibility in what I want to be doing with the deck.
I've always liked playing one Seachrome because I like the idea that Map can fetch an untapped dual on turn 2 that costs 0 life. It makes me feel better about keeping hands with two Tron lands + Map when I need coloured sources.
Recently I've seen a lot of lists posted that run both Emrakul and Mindslaver. In the past, I've felt that having both makes the deck clunky. Wondering if someone who runs both could comment on their experience and what running both adds to the deck?
Recently I've seen a lot of lists posted that run both Emrakul and Mindslaver. In the past, I've felt that having both makes the deck clunky. Wondering if someone who runs both could comment on their experience and what running both adds to the deck?
You get a bit more resiliency in late game win conditions. Having the ability to win out of the graveyard or out of your hand makes you less likely to lose to graveyard hate. Mindslaver is often a better card than Emrakul because it's not a 15 mana card, but the full package requires more slots to play (Crucible main plus the second Academy Ruins).
I think playing the full everything is just too clunky. Playing a single Mindslaver and a single Emrakul is probably not the worst. You could think of it as subbing out Crucible for Emrakul. So while Gifts isn't going to let you grab a guaranteed Mindslaver combo, you're still putting that slot as a "late game win condition" card.
All of it just always depends on how much you want to put late game cards in your deck. If you play against decks like UWR Control a bunch, maybe it's good. If you're playing against Affinity and Burn, they're just dead cards you're going to board out anyway. I tend to find the meta usually doesn't make Emrakul or Mindslaver that great. I'd never cut the late game win condition entirely; I'm always willing to dedicate at least one slot to it. Most of the time though, I think more than one slot is unnecessary.
Thanks for that answer. I've always been in the Emrakul camp, but I could see how Mindslaver works for you with academy ruin, EE, and oblivion stone. For me, I'd rather fill the other slot with a large must answer creature in the 10 mana range, that bridges the gap between Ugin and Emrakul and could take the game if I never get to 15 mana. Alongside Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Im experimenting with running Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and also experimenting with Emrakul, the Promised End. So far, seems like how good the second Emrakul is can vary greatly, while Ulamog is consistent.
I tend to rarely play both, and last time I played just Mindslaver and Emrakul, only one Academy Ruins and no other support. I find I lose more games because of a lack of interaction rather than not being able to get to Emrakul.
Yeah that's what I've noticed as well. I'm thinking of dropping my Mindslaver for something flexible like a Detention Sphere variant. I've also added in Thopter Sword as a one-of each, and I've been enjoing that.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
i know this is going to be breaking orthodoxy a little but I found that eldrazi temple mixed with 4 vesuva does pretty good work for ramping sol ring effects. the catch is your stuck on playing an eldrazi plan with it, but I found it some what consistent.
pretty consistently though, I found myself getting turn 5 all is dust. kind of gives me a reason to run snapcaster mage again. plus that tribal helps, it knocked my emrakul, the promised end down another mana in cost.
swapping the tron lands for temples and vesuva in testing does, mess with the gifts ungiven if you are using it to fetch up land cards. I was debating on going extreme and adding thespian stage in order to add a 2nd copy land. but way i approached it so far is I added 1 shrine of the forsaken gods and fetch an extra expedition map.
i know this is going to be breaking orthodoxy a little but I found that eldrazi temple mixed with 4 vesuva does pretty good work for ramping sol ring effects. the catch is your stuck on playing an eldrazi plan with it, but I found it some what consistent.
pretty consistently though, I found myself getting turn 5 all is dust. kind of gives me a reason to run snapcaster mage again. plus that tribal helps, it knocked my emrakul, the promised end down another mana in cost.
swapping the tron lands for temples and vesuva in testing does, mess with the gifts ungiven if you are using it to fetch up land cards. I was debating on going extreme and adding thespian stage in order to add a 2nd copy land. but way i approached it so far is I added 1 shrine of the forsaken gods and fetch an extra expedition map.
I feel like if you're playing Eldrazi Temple and trying to ramp out Eldrazi, you might as well play Eldrazi Tron. There's no reason to try and make your deck do everything; find one thing it can do well and stick to that. You'll run into all sorts of issues when your deck does everything but nothing well. The whole Gifts and ramp to Emrakul plan seems so much worse in a deck that doesn't have Tron lands.
Maybe it'll work, my gut intuition is that it won't be that good.
Some points I'd like to make:
- Gifts for Thopter Combo is a real deal, especially when you run a Muddle
- Trinket Mage is a real powerplay post-board, and is a replacement for the lack of Expedition Map
- Leyline of Sanctity impressed me a lot, though playing 3 in SB proved valuable
- Having both the Slaver-lock and Emrakul in lategame gives a lot of possibilities with Gifts Ungiven
Overall, the list seems valuable, I am gathering the cards in paper right now.
I appreciate any hints and suggestions.
The ability on this card is ETB instead of cast, so it becomes a Gifts target. Even though it's WWUU, it being 6 mana makes it somewhat castable. I think what sells me on it is that the ETB makes it hard to prevent it from attacking, and being able to gain a bunch and draw is something. It's probably bad and I'm probably overestimating it, but when the card has the same text as Sphinx's Rev, I'm intrigued.
This set doesn't seem very good for us. The blue whale seems like it doesn't accomplish much, and there just isn't really anything powerful.
Any opinion on The Immortal Sun? It seems like it has a fair bit of power. Shutting off opposing planeswalkers, lowering mana costs, and giving an additional card. Seems like a decent single cards. I doubt people would want to give you that with gifts.
The problem is that expensive cards like this need a more immediate and powerful impact. This is a solid card over the course of several turns, but in Modern the immediate impact is quite low. You probably rarely tap out at 6 mana for this, so it's realistically an 8-9 mana card. At that price, I think we're too late into the game for us to reap the benefits of this card.
I'm planning on putting one in the main, swapping it for either engineered explosives or sundering titan depending on the meta at my shop per night. Just glad I got one years ago and didn't trade it when I had the chance.
I'd put one in the main and see how it goes. It's obviously powerful and there's no reason not to at least test it. I think more than one is probably clunky, and one works well with Gifts. Also keeps your costs down if you don't own them cause they're around $200 right now.
In addition, I think if you want to drop Tron you'd just be better served with Esper Gifts instead of trying to force Eldrazi. You can still run Mindslaver Emrakul as an end game threat, but you'll just have to manually get up the mana needed instead of skipping a bit with Tron lands.
1x Academy Ruins
2x Celestial Colonnade
2x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Snow-Covered Plains
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Planeswalker (2)
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Instant (17)
3x Condescend
4x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile
2x Remand
1x Sphinx's Revelation
3x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Coax from the Blind Eternities
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Unburial Rites
1x Wrath of God
Creature (4)
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Snapcaster Mage
Artifact (8)
3x Azorius Signet
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Expedition Map
1x Mindslaver
1x Oblivion Stone
2x Blessed Alliance
1x Celestial Purge
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Disenchant
1x Dispel
2x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
I see you're running the O Stone and EE main like Darksteel is, how have you liked it? Personally I've loved having it, and looping it over and over has been amazing.
I used to run Seachrome Coast as well, which I switched out for the Godless Shrine, for exactly the same reason I only run two Colonnades. Generally, I'm way more comfortable being 2 life down with an untapped land, than ripping an "enters tapped" land right when I don't need it. I've had a lot of games that came down to me drawing *any* untapped land to get me back in, and not getting there. It may only be anecdotal evidence, but I find that Godless gives me a lot more flexibility in what I want to be doing with the deck.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I think playing the full everything is just too clunky. Playing a single Mindslaver and a single Emrakul is probably not the worst. You could think of it as subbing out Crucible for Emrakul. So while Gifts isn't going to let you grab a guaranteed Mindslaver combo, you're still putting that slot as a "late game win condition" card.
All of it just always depends on how much you want to put late game cards in your deck. If you play against decks like UWR Control a bunch, maybe it's good. If you're playing against Affinity and Burn, they're just dead cards you're going to board out anyway. I tend to find the meta usually doesn't make Emrakul or Mindslaver that great. I'd never cut the late game win condition entirely; I'm always willing to dedicate at least one slot to it. Most of the time though, I think more than one slot is unnecessary.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
I wipped out turn 2/3 thought-knot seers a couple times in testing.
pretty consistently though, I found myself getting turn 5 all is dust. kind of gives me a reason to run snapcaster mage again. plus that tribal helps, it knocked my emrakul, the promised end down another mana in cost.
swapping the tron lands for temples and vesuva in testing does, mess with the gifts ungiven if you are using it to fetch up land cards. I was debating on going extreme and adding thespian stage in order to add a 2nd copy land. but way i approached it so far is I added 1 shrine of the forsaken gods and fetch an extra expedition map.
Maybe it'll work, my gut intuition is that it won't be that good.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
4 Urza's Tower
3 Urza's Power Plant
3 Urza's Mine
2 Celestial Colonnade
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Flooded Strand
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 Tolaria West
1 Ghost Quarter
[CREATURES]
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Expedition Map
3 Path to Exile
1 Condescend
3 Remand
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
4 Azorius Signet
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Wrath of God
1 Day of Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Unburial Rites
1 Mindslaver
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Batterskull
1 Sacred Ground
1 Celestial Purge
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Rule of Law
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Pact of Negation
1 Negate
1 Hurkyl's Recall
Some points I'd like to make:
- Gifts for Thopter Combo is a real deal, especially when you run a Muddle
- Trinket Mage is a real powerplay post-board, and is a replacement for the lack of Expedition Map
- Leyline of Sanctity impressed me a lot, though playing 3 in SB proved valuable
- Having both the Slaver-lock and Emrakul in lategame gives a lot of possibilities with Gifts Ungiven
Overall, the list seems valuable, I am gathering the cards in paper right now.
I appreciate any hints and suggestions.
Greetings
The ability on this card is ETB instead of cast, so it becomes a Gifts target. Even though it's WWUU, it being 6 mana makes it somewhat castable. I think what sells me on it is that the ETB makes it hard to prevent it from attacking, and being able to gain a bunch and draw is something. It's probably bad and I'm probably overestimating it, but when the card has the same text as Sphinx's Rev, I'm intrigued.
This set doesn't seem very good for us. The blue whale seems like it doesn't accomplish much, and there just isn't really anything powerful.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer