Playing Dismember with no black mana in a burn meta seems like an extremely bad idea.
I don't disagree, but if you did manage to stick a chalice for 1 against burn it'd probably save more life than dismember would take.
I'd just use Magma Jet, Electrolyze, and Izzet Charm if you need removal that doesn't get hit by a Chalice for 1. They hit almost everything in the format nowadays.
I don't think I'm going to play this deck until the meta swings back towards it. Moving over to the RUG midrange shell, leaving my blood moons in the board where they belong. Sad times.
I don't think I'm going to play this deck until the meta swings back towards it. Moving over to the RUG midrange shell, leaving my blood moons in the board where they belong. Sad times.
While I agree (I sold my Blood Moons to pay for Remands, which is really somewhat ironic since I have campaigned so long against that card in this deck only to sell this deck's main card to buy it), it did just make top 16 at GP Madrid.
I know, it's just that Blood Moon main is too much of a liability currently, with my list I still think tight play could overcome these bad matchups (especially with izzet charm and loothouse to get rid of excess land hate) there is no point making games so hard for yourself. I'll still play my baby for fun with friends but serious magic requires a more serious deck.
Edit: just checked out the list, I like ruins/EE main, I was at the point of siding in both, the white splash is interesting as well. 3 Clique seems mildly excessive, what is he worried about with that? Scapeshift?
I played a modified version of Ryan Hipp's list and 4-0'd a DE with it. (and also 1-2'd a later one)
I didn't like vapor snag when I was playing with it in the practice room. It's early interaction vs aggro decks, but it's still card disadvantage unless you're using it on a snapcaster. I guess you can snag creatures that resolved before blood moon, but that seems hard to pull off. Plus there are a lot of enter the battlefield creatures that you don't really want to snag especially if you don't have moon. I never got to the point where I wanted to use it on a snapcaster. I replaced the snags with repeal and 2x thirst for knowledge. Maybe the repeal should be another land since I increased the curve? I don't think mana leak is playable in a control deck. With so much creature removal, I think negate is the better choice. It certainly helped vs my burn match.
The sideboard is whatever. I was too cheap to buy a 4th blood moon. Maybe the 4th blood moon might be worth it since I have thirst to get rid of extras.
I beat soul sisters round 1. He won a game since he got to curve out and I was stuck on lands. He got crushed the other 2 where he didn't curve out. He had a ton of white hate enchantments (i looked up his list ahead of time). So I made sure to leave up snare. Those enchantments are another reason why repeal can be playable in this deck.
I beat some UWR ascendancy combo round 2. He had young pyromancer, 3 squadron hawks, fate stitcher, ideas unbound an all the cantrips (no glittering wish, mana dorks or manamorphose) blood moon crushed him. Though I did drop a game since I had no idea what he was playing game 2 and sideboarded incorrectly and mistook my role.
I beat twin round 3. He got me with exarch twin game 1. Game 2 is drawn out. On turn ~15 he cliques me, takes away my negate(my only interaction), then slams splinter twin on his pestermite, only for me to take it away with my spellskite. Game 3 he dispels all the cards that are 1 for 1s and i run him out of gas and win with keranos or something. He was going to time out anyways.
I beat boros burn round 4. I had this awesome game 3 against it, but modo is a trash pile and ends replays when someone gets targeted with an electrolyze or forked bolt. I play this tight game where I only counter cards that kill my creatures or do 4 damage. I blood moon him mid game to lock him out of white cards. Before moon resolved he cast 2 helix and 1 boros charm (i countered the boros charm). I stabilize at 1 life and deploy my batterskull with 3 counters as back up (2 snare and 1 counter flux), he searing blazes twice and I counter both with my 2 snares. He had a skull crack and i counter flux it. He top decks eidolon and casts it, and chumps with it on my turn so he can use searing blood on my germ token. I gain 1 life of the exchange. I draw cryptic and then a clique and seal the game. I don't know why my opponent left in searing cards, he also played helix which makes me think he's a sub optimal burn player, or he really wanted to beat the mirror.
In the other DE I lost to grixis twin. He had the turn 4 combo both times, though I did clique him into the combo the second game. I beat some 5 color creature deck with rainbow lands. Blood moon and shackles crushed him, though I dropped a game due to mana screw. And I lost to junk, had mana issues both games, though game 1 he was on the play and took my serum visions out of my 1 land hand. I knew he was on junk since I looked at the last DE replays, but mulliganing against the discard deck is generally bad.
I also played a bunch of practice games, there's so many chokes it's ridiculous. Is it worth splashing green to kill choke and other enchantments? Or should I play cascade bluffs? I think I might play trygon predator or back to nature. Back to nature is probably better since you can get it back with snapcaster.
But I think the take away from my experience is that I lost quite a few games keeping 1-2 landers and didn't get there. A sleight of hand might be worth considering, or another land (probably replacing repeal). And flooding is less of a liability when i play thirst.
A singelton desolate lighthouse is generally accepted for this deck and I personally also played izzet charm to smooth extra moons or lands out. I also think that you could look into flame slash or forked bolt in this meta (just more cheap interaction to fuel delve cards really). As I've previously said tho this deck is a pretty bad meta call as of right now.
3-1'd a DE with the deck. I think the deck is in a better position than it was a month ago.
Unfortunately my loss was to a good match up in UWR control. I thought he had a blank in his hand but it turned out to be mana leak. Then he drew 2 paths for my batterskull and then a bolt + colonnade attack to kill me. And in game 2 he had leak, leak, wear for my plays, then he resolved DTT into keranos. He drew pretty well that match.
Still using the same list as above. I feel like this deck could use a life gain card main deck, I'm going to try druidic satchel over the repeal.
Glad to hear ur having success but do you really feel that Blood moon is worth not splashing another colour? Some ppl have been discussing a temur shackles deck that puts the moons in the SB and runs some bigger creatures and maindeck life gain (huntmasters or baloths, I'm also running finks)
It obviously makes the main a bit different but I personally feel the life gain is worth the cost. The deck still runs enough islands to make shackles work ( 5 basic islands, 2-3 vents and 2-3 pools w 8 on colour fetchs).
Would be interested in your take (deck was just piloted to top 16 in SCG IQ)
Glad to hear ur having success but do you really feel that Blood moon is worth not splashing another colour? Some ppl have been discussing a temur shackles deck that puts the moons in the SB and runs some bigger creatures and maindeck life gain (huntmasters or baloths, I'm also running finks)
It obviously makes the main a bit different but I personally feel the life gain is worth the cost. The deck still runs enough islands to make shackles work ( 5 basic islands, 2-3 vents and 2-3 pools w 8 on colour fetchs).
Would be interested in your take (deck was just piloted to top 16 in SCG IQ)
That would be RUG Shackles deck under discussion, not Blue Moon. Many decks run Blood Moon sideboard. I mean, the RUG deck you're talking about spins around getting tempo while beating with goyf and stealing creatures with shackles, but as far as I know this deck is all about gaining tempo until resolving a moon then burning/stealing beating with a little good old Snapcaster, spinning more around tempo/control.
This is my current list that I want to test forward on, seems to be a solid deck and proved to be working not bat at all against the current meta.
Glad to hear ur having success but do you really feel that Blood moon is worth not splashing another colour? Some ppl have been discussing a temur shackles deck that puts the moons in the SB and runs some bigger creatures and maindeck life gain (huntmasters or baloths, I'm also running finks)
It obviously makes the main a bit different but I personally feel the life gain is worth the cost. The deck still runs enough islands to make shackles work ( 5 basic islands, 2-3 vents and 2-3 pools w 8 on colour fetchs).
Would be interested in your take (deck was just piloted to top 16 in SCG IQ)
That would be RUG Shackles deck under discussion, not Blue Moon. Many decks run Blood Moon sideboard. I mean, the RUG deck you're talking about spins around getting tempo while beating with goyf and stealing creatures with shackles, but as far as I know this deck is all about gaining tempo until resolving a moon then burning/stealing beating with a little good old Snapcaster, spinning more around tempo/control.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Glad to hear ur having success but do you really feel that Blood moon is worth not splashing another colour? Some ppl have been discussing a temur shackles deck that puts the moons in the SB and runs some bigger creatures and maindeck life gain (huntmasters or baloths, I'm also running finks)
It obviously makes the main a bit different but I personally feel the life gain is worth the cost. The deck still runs enough islands to make shackles work ( 5 basic islands, 2-3 vents and 2-3 pools w 8 on colour fetchs).
Would be interested in your take (deck was just piloted to top 16 in SCG IQ)
That would be RUG Shackles deck under discussion, not Blue Moon. Many decks run Blood Moon sideboard. I mean, the RUG deck you're talking about spins around getting tempo while beating with goyf and stealing creatures with shackles, but as far as I know this deck is all about gaining tempo until resolving a moon then burning/stealing beating with a little good old Snapcaster, spinning more around tempo/control.
I do understand that that Blue Moon and RUG shackles are two different decks..... if you read Ricksters post he says he felt like the deck needed life gain. So my post was to ask if MD Blood Moon is worth not getting life gain from splashing a 3rd colour.
The RUG Shackles deck shares a lot in common w Blue Moon (counter burn strat with shackles to steal creatures and finish the beats). I felt like the decks shared enough (in both card selection and playstyle) that it was worth trying to discuss the advantages of one over the either and if they can learn something from each other.
Negate tends to be good in the matchups you're already good in. (You know, control mirrors and against combo decks) I would say no, if you're playing with something narrow like that it needs to be for a matchup you struggle against.
A blue moon deck did finish 12th at GP Milan played by Fabain Moyschewitz , going UR with 2 blood moons and 3 cliques main (with a 61 card deck). Also interesting is the white splash from a single hallowed fountain for three sideboard timely reinforcments and I guess one engineered explosives as well.
@TFSS: I'd say if you're worried about affinity, get rid of the repeal, a shackles and flame slash and think more forked bolt, and anger. Which are the keys to that matchup.
@Nixerator: from my previous experience, Shackles are pretty good against afiinity - this is our only answer to resolved Etched Champion. Maybe cutting flame slash and repeal is a way to go, i'll think about it.
I'd replace Flame Slash for a single Bonfire of the Damned, which is really valuable against delver, fish and affinity. Maybe Repeal for a MB Volcanic Fallout can be nice, as it also gets damage through. Another card that might be valuable as a single in SB is Sudden Shock, in response to an Arcbound Ravager activation or a Monastery Swiftspear trigger or even an unattended Sakura-Tribe Elder (though this will only work once and it is not a reliable SB card against Sacepshift).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
Look to be brutally honest, you shouldn't try to hedge against a resolved etched champion. They run 4 max, usually 2 or 3, what you need to hedge against is their main game plan which is swarming with dudes and outracing your removal. Anger fixes this nicely, not only that it is more applicable against Pod as well. Do you want to spend 3 mana then have to invest another two in a matchup as brutally fast as affinity (and still get outswarmed and out combat tricked by ravagers, platings and manlands) or just spend your 3, reset the board and carry on. I found 2 shackles to be a sweetspot of seeing often enough but not cloggin up your hand and mana against affinity.
Why play bonfire over Anger? Bonfire is the nuts in decks that can abuse its one sidedness and damage to the face, of which blue moon does neither.
Look to be brutally honest, you shouldn't try to hedge against a resolved etched champion. They run 4 max, usually 2 or 3, what you need to hedge against is their main game plan which is swarming with dudes and outracing your removal. Anger fixes this nicely, not only that it is more applicable against Pod as well. Do you want to spend 3 mana then have to invest another two in a matchup as brutally fast as affinity (and still get outswarmed and out combat tricked by ravagers, platings and manlands) or just spend your 3, reset the board and carry on. I found 2 shackles to be a sweetspot of seeing often enough but not cloggin up your hand and mana against affinity.
Why play bonfire over Anger? Bonfire is the nuts in decks that can abuse its one sidedness and damage to the face, of which blue moon does neither.
I play 1 Bonfire main, as an additional answer and as a finisher in long games. Topdecking a Bonfire after a remand T4+ is neat and happens very often, does it's not a reliable play. The most relevant thing about the Bonfire is that we play 4 Serum Visions, so we can set it up most of the times for the blowout.
I play 2 Anger side plus 1 Pyroclasm, but this is only because my meta is full of Delvers, Bogles, Zoo and some Pods/Affinity. Anger is the best postboard, but in this meta I'd never drop the single Bonfire main as is an answer waiting to be dug off the top.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In Lorwyn's brief evenings, the sun pauses at the horizon long enough for a certain species of violet to bloom with the fragrance of mischief.
I think against affinity you would want something at instant speed because of Cranial Plating , but I think the best awnser at sorcery speed is Vandalblast. It kills early threads like a turn 1 plating/ravager/overseer while still being very relevant as the game goes longer.
Maybe if we are really worried about affinity we can swap the hallowed fountain and the white splash and run a breeding pool for Ancient Grudge in the sideboard. Wear // Tear could be Nature's Claim wich is quite good against storm and jeskai ascendancy as well , and we don't really care about the 4 life. We loose a bit in the burn matchup without the white splash but green has some good options , not sure what would be the best.
Just some ideas , I'm not really a blue moon player.
I've been playing a lot with for a month and a half (like 200 games or even more I guess), so I'm starting getting comfortable with my card choices and so on. My current list looks like that:
1. Q: Hey dude, why your list has only 2 digs? Delve is so broken!
A: I was playing 3/3 split with Cryptics for some time, but then I realised that cryptic is the card you are digging for with DTT, and also it's the best card in this deck (and one of the best in modern overall). Seriously, when you have 4 untapped mana, crytpic in hand, and a rather stable board, you are the king on the castle. Also, dig is pretty bad with 4 Snapcasters (even with 2 DTT, I am often casting it for 4-5 mana, not 2), and they are affected with random grave hate, which is minor issue, but still pretty annoying.
2. Q: Pearl Lake Ancient?! Really?! Are we playing standard?
A: I know he could raise a few eyebrows, but I think he is the best finisher option we can play. Virtually unkillable (partially thanks to his ability, and partially because most decks are just not running suitable removal), UNCOUNTERABLE, which is a huge deal against scapeshift and some random twin decks, and the most important thing: Flash, so you can hold up your cryptic or any other reactive cards and just jam him if opponent gives you a window.
3. Q: Why are you playing Stony Silence? It's so sad and narrow!
A: Yeah, it is. It is also almost necessary against affinity, which is our worst match-up by far. You can also try something like vandalblast, but I guess it can be sometimes too slow.
Also, I like the maindeck explo, drawing live in almost any situation in really, really valuable, and it's the most versatile answer both to tarmozords and something like BW Tokens.
I'm going to play a PPTQ next weekend, 99% with this deck and probably with this exact list. Stay tuned for more uptades, and remember: If you don't love this, you don't love magic!
Best Regards & Much Love,
TFSS
I'd play at least 1 Batterskull somewhere in the 75. Sometimes we stabilize at a low life total and we need Batterskull to make sure that we don't lose to topdecked Burn and haste creatures. I'm also not a fan of Repeal. Other than that I like the list, though I am somewhat worried about Pearl Lake Ancient (please prove me wrong).
I'd just use Magma Jet, Electrolyze, and Izzet Charm if you need removal that doesn't get hit by a Chalice for 1. They hit almost everything in the format nowadays.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
While I agree (I sold my Blood Moons to pay for Remands, which is really somewhat ironic since I have campaigned so long against that card in this deck only to sell this deck's main card to buy it), it did just make top 16 at GP Madrid.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Edit: just checked out the list, I like ruins/EE main, I was at the point of siding in both, the white splash is interesting as well. 3 Clique seems mildly excessive, what is he worried about with that? Scapeshift?
I didn't like vapor snag when I was playing with it in the practice room. It's early interaction vs aggro decks, but it's still card disadvantage unless you're using it on a snapcaster. I guess you can snag creatures that resolved before blood moon, but that seems hard to pull off. Plus there are a lot of enter the battlefield creatures that you don't really want to snag especially if you don't have moon. I never got to the point where I wanted to use it on a snapcaster. I replaced the snags with repeal and 2x thirst for knowledge. Maybe the repeal should be another land since I increased the curve? I don't think mana leak is playable in a control deck. With so much creature removal, I think negate is the better choice. It certainly helped vs my burn match.
The sideboard is whatever. I was too cheap to buy a 4th blood moon. Maybe the 4th blood moon might be worth it since I have thirst to get rid of extras.
I beat soul sisters round 1. He won a game since he got to curve out and I was stuck on lands. He got crushed the other 2 where he didn't curve out. He had a ton of white hate enchantments (i looked up his list ahead of time). So I made sure to leave up snare. Those enchantments are another reason why repeal can be playable in this deck.
I beat some UWR ascendancy combo round 2. He had young pyromancer, 3 squadron hawks, fate stitcher, ideas unbound an all the cantrips (no glittering wish, mana dorks or manamorphose) blood moon crushed him. Though I did drop a game since I had no idea what he was playing game 2 and sideboarded incorrectly and mistook my role.
I beat twin round 3. He got me with exarch twin game 1. Game 2 is drawn out. On turn ~15 he cliques me, takes away my negate(my only interaction), then slams splinter twin on his pestermite, only for me to take it away with my spellskite. Game 3 he dispels all the cards that are 1 for 1s and i run him out of gas and win with keranos or something. He was going to time out anyways.
I beat boros burn round 4. I had this awesome game 3 against it, but modo is a trash pile and ends replays when someone gets targeted with an electrolyze or forked bolt. I play this tight game where I only counter cards that kill my creatures or do 4 damage. I blood moon him mid game to lock him out of white cards. Before moon resolved he cast 2 helix and 1 boros charm (i countered the boros charm). I stabilize at 1 life and deploy my batterskull with 3 counters as back up (2 snare and 1 counter flux), he searing blazes twice and I counter both with my 2 snares. He had a skull crack and i counter flux it. He top decks eidolon and casts it, and chumps with it on my turn so he can use searing blood on my germ token. I gain 1 life of the exchange. I draw cryptic and then a clique and seal the game. I don't know why my opponent left in searing cards, he also played helix which makes me think he's a sub optimal burn player, or he really wanted to beat the mirror.
In the other DE I lost to grixis twin. He had the turn 4 combo both times, though I did clique him into the combo the second game. I beat some 5 color creature deck with rainbow lands. Blood moon and shackles crushed him, though I dropped a game due to mana screw. And I lost to junk, had mana issues both games, though game 1 he was on the play and took my serum visions out of my 1 land hand. I knew he was on junk since I looked at the last DE replays, but mulliganing against the discard deck is generally bad.
I also played a bunch of practice games, there's so many chokes it's ridiculous. Is it worth splashing green to kill choke and other enchantments? Or should I play cascade bluffs? I think I might play trygon predator or back to nature. Back to nature is probably better since you can get it back with snapcaster.
But I think the take away from my experience is that I lost quite a few games keeping 1-2 landers and didn't get there. A sleight of hand might be worth considering, or another land (probably replacing repeal). And flooding is less of a liability when i play thirst.
Unfortunately my loss was to a good match up in UWR control. I thought he had a blank in his hand but it turned out to be mana leak. Then he drew 2 paths for my batterskull and then a bolt + colonnade attack to kill me. And in game 2 he had leak, leak, wear for my plays, then he resolved DTT into keranos. He drew pretty well that match.
Still using the same list as above. I feel like this deck could use a life gain card main deck, I'm going to try druidic satchel over the repeal.
It obviously makes the main a bit different but I personally feel the life gain is worth the cost. The deck still runs enough islands to make shackles work ( 5 basic islands, 2-3 vents and 2-3 pools w 8 on colour fetchs).
Would be interested in your take (deck was just piloted to top 16 in SCG IQ)
That would be RUG Shackles deck under discussion, not Blue Moon. Many decks run Blood Moon sideboard. I mean, the RUG deck you're talking about spins around getting tempo while beating with goyf and stealing creatures with shackles, but as far as I know this deck is all about gaining tempo until resolving a moon then burning/stealing beating with a little good old Snapcaster, spinning more around tempo/control.
This is my current list that I want to test forward on, seems to be a solid deck and proved to be working not bat at all against the current meta.
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
2 Vapor Snag
2 Izzet Charm
2 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Blood Moon
2 Electrolyze
2 Vedalken Shackles
3 Cryptic Command
1 Batterskull
2 Dig Through Time
1 Academy Ruins
2 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
7 Island
1 Mountain
1 Dispel
1 Vandalblast
1 Combust
1 Negate
1 Pyroclasm
1 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sudden Shock
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Blood Moon
1 Counterflux
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Wipe Away
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Thoughts? Ideas? Any feedback would be appreciated.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I do understand that that Blue Moon and RUG shackles are two different decks..... if you read Ricksters post he says he felt like the deck needed life gain. So my post was to ask if MD Blood Moon is worth not getting life gain from splashing a 3rd colour.
The RUG Shackles deck shares a lot in common w Blue Moon (counter burn strat with shackles to steal creatures and finish the beats). I felt like the decks shared enough (in both card selection and playstyle) that it was worth trying to discuss the advantages of one over the either and if they can learn something from each other.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
2 Dig Through Time
3 Remand
3 Spell Snare
1 Repeal
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Batterskull
2 Blood Moon
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Sulfur Falls
3 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Polluted Delta
3 Vandalblast
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Negate
1 Magma Spray
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Spellskite
1 Dispel
1 Combust
I'd replace Flame Slash for a single Bonfire of the Damned, which is really valuable against delver, fish and affinity. Maybe Repeal for a MB Volcanic Fallout can be nice, as it also gets damage through. Another card that might be valuable as a single in SB is Sudden Shock, in response to an Arcbound Ravager activation or a Monastery Swiftspear trigger or even an unattended Sakura-Tribe Elder (though this will only work once and it is not a reliable SB card against Sacepshift).
Why play bonfire over Anger? Bonfire is the nuts in decks that can abuse its one sidedness and damage to the face, of which blue moon does neither.
I play 1 Bonfire main, as an additional answer and as a finisher in long games. Topdecking a Bonfire after a remand T4+ is neat and happens very often, does it's not a reliable play. The most relevant thing about the Bonfire is that we play 4 Serum Visions, so we can set it up most of the times for the blowout.
I play 2 Anger side plus 1 Pyroclasm, but this is only because my meta is full of Delvers, Bogles, Zoo and some Pods/Affinity. Anger is the best postboard, but in this meta I'd never drop the single Bonfire main as is an answer waiting to be dug off the top.
Maybe if we are really worried about affinity we can swap the hallowed fountain and the white splash and run a breeding pool for Ancient Grudge in the sideboard. Wear // Tear could be Nature's Claim wich is quite good against storm and jeskai ascendancy as well , and we don't really care about the 4 life. We loose a bit in the burn matchup without the white splash but green has some good options , not sure what would be the best.
Just some ideas , I'm not really a blue moon player.
I'd play at least 1 Batterskull somewhere in the 75. Sometimes we stabilize at a low life total and we need Batterskull to make sure that we don't lose to topdecked Burn and haste creatures. I'm also not a fan of Repeal. Other than that I like the list, though I am somewhat worried about Pearl Lake Ancient (please prove me wrong).
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.