So I'll go on some ramblings with this deck over the last month or so. Between FNM and Modern Mondays in the last month or so, I have 4-0'd once and 3-1'd each remaining time for an overall record of 16-4 (80% WR) across the last 5 times playing with this deck. When combined with Vegas side events (7-3), that number jumps to an overall 23-7 (77% WR) since early June. Of the 7 losses, they were Affinity (x2), Elves, Merfolk, Hollow One, Tron, and Burn. Tron was the most recent loss (last night), which felt especially bad after slamming a turn 3 Moon on a mull to 5, just to have them untap, play a forest, and Nature's Claim it.
All in all, this deck is essentially unbeatable for fair decks, grindy decks, control decks, midrange decks, etc. It probably helps that I have specifically tuned it to be so, with 3 Jaces (2 Sculptor, 1 Architect) and a Keranos in the side.
Against most fair decks, if I win game 1 without them seeing the combo, I generally leave 5 pieces in (3 Breach 2 Emmy) and bring in whatever suits the opponent. If they see the combo, I usually take it out entirely (maybe leaving 1 Emmy in for Jace AOT, which has gotten an Emrakul more than once, while keeping me alive against spirit and elemental tokens). Breach still gets a lot of people by surprise. I'm not sure why, but I guess people expect Thing in the Ice and P&K and Cliques and other fair nonsense. The ability to board out the combo and bring in tons of great grindy cards reminds me a lot of Twin. As soon as I get near 5 mana, suddenly their play slows down and they are more careful. Easy then to pick a fight on their end step then untap and slam a Jace or Keranos. I am undefeated against Jeskai, UW, Jund, and Mardu.
Against fast aggro decks, I'm fairly weak. I have diversified the sideboard to help a bit, but it's a lot of "find these cards or die" most of the time. And since the combo is 5 mana instead of 4, it's much more rare to actually have it, so it's not something I can rely on in a timely way. If I draw all my removal, it's a crushing victory. If I don't, it's a fairly decisive loss. Things that don't die to Bolt are extremely difficult to deal with. I am trying a Sweltering Suns main deck to try and help. It has not been relevant in a game 1 yet (I have only cast in a game 2, in which it was great). I usually have to aggressively mulligan for removal most of the time and am still unsure how much (if any) of the combo to leave in past game 1. Sometimes I am dead before it matters, and sometimes it has won me games from being at 2 life and dead on the next turn. The inconsistency and cost of the combo is frustrating and complex.
I played at least one match against UB Mill. Game 1 he managed to surgical my Emrakul, but still got there with Snaps and Bolts. Game 2 he never found Surgical and... that was that.
Tron is super hit and miss. Especially with Ulamog, the deck goes back to the old "find the combo or die" game. Because even if I can buy time with Moon and counter their things, eventually Ulamog is going to come down and just wreck me. Still hate this deck.
Nobody at my store plays Humans. Or if they do, I have never been matched with them. I'm sure my matchup isn't awful, but I can't imagine it's all that great if I can't kill their stuff early.
Hollow One is dumb. My GY hate is minimal, but the real problem is the need for specific cards and them aggressively and randomly screwing my hand. Luckily, I think only one person plays this and I've only played them once (and lost).
Wonky random decks. Mostly doing the old Serum/Remand/Moon dance is enough when I can slam an unexpected Breach any time after turn 5. Been pretty lucky so far.
Burn is a tricky matchup and very tight. Lost 1-2, where each game finished with both of us at 5 life or less. Might have been able to navigate a little better, but Eidolon is really rough to deal with. Also, drawing removal when they draw spells, or drawing Negates and Dispels when they draw creatures... is still a thing.
I'm sure there is much more for this deck. I definitely continue to hold that I will not be playing large competitive events with it and that my success is mostly due to dodging a lot of the "top decks" that represent fairly poor matchups. I eat midrange and control for breakfast, and luckily most of my local meta is that (and wonky brews). The entire deck (main and side) is foiled, other than the Breaches (waiting for reprint), Field of Ruin (I'm not paying $25 for an in-print, standard-legal uncommon), and Abrade/Electrolyze (full art promos instead). List of card versions here.
Good job there. That is an amazing record with the deck. I didn't realize that you could beat those such decks with consistency.
I tried UR Breach for a bit, but I just found it tough to find the combo. In theory, it seems easy to find it with Serum Visions, Opt, and Snapcaster Mage with those, but I often couldn't find both of them until the bottom 30 cards of my deck. Still, I managed 5-3 with the deck. I really like your list as well. Even the SB is something that I would run nearly the same 15 and that is very hard to say in today's meta. (What I mean is that I used to mostly copy SBs, but I have adapted it a bunch to the metas that I play or expect to play in currently.)
I would love to see some pictures of the foils. I am a foil WHORE myself. I got my Field of Ruin foil for $18 shipped, but it may be a tiny bit higher now and yes, it DID suck paying that. But then I also paid $50 and 2 FNM Opt for a Karn, Scion of Urza to play in Affinity. That hurts more.
I look forward to Preordain, a card that could significantly help a deck like this. I hate Opt. It's probably the main thing that stopped me from playing this deck, (aside from a "rougher than I would have thought matchup vs. Company decks.") I just don't think that the card is that good. I almost would rather run Thought Scour, but I realize that in theory at least, Opt helps dig towards Annihilator 6.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I would love to see some pictures of the foils. I am a foil WHORE myself. I got my Field of Ruin foil for $18 shipped, but it may be a tiny bit higher now and yes, it DID suck paying that. But then I also paid $50 and 2 FNM Opt for a Karn, Scion of Urza to play in Affinity. That hurts more.
I keep forgetting how much of a pain it is to try and photograph foils. So I took a short video of the main board and side board. Along with a few totalshots. Also an Honorable Mention to my signed Noah Bradley foil Islands that I'm not using because I only have 5 (and I need 7... ) The Mountain is a signed foil, but the Islands are currently non-foil Unstable.
Nice posts cfusionpm. I actually have had so much success with the Breach version, I spent most of today trying other decks, and getting absolutely smashed. I then bring back out the Breach, and...win Turn 5, put the fear of Emmy into em, and then tempo/burn them out.
I even tried UR Thing, UR Hard Control, UR Aggro, but the Breach build is just about there for our fallen god, so thats what I'm going to be doing for the foreseeable future.
Is there a reason, beyond personal preference for people to not be on the Breach version? It seems immensely strong.
Is there a reason, beyond personal preference for people to not be on the Breach version? It seems immensely strong.
In addition to the bad matchups, I think the perception that "Jeskai is the best" is hurting Blue Moon too. Teferi and Azcanta are new, amazing, and exciting cards. Combined with the strong Humans/Affinity matchup for Jeskai (which are moderate to bad for Blue Moon), it would make sense that Jeskai is just more popular. Other than Abrade, Blue Moon hasn't really gotten anything new in a long time. Yeah, it got Jace, but he's really only a 1-2 of SB card, IMO.
What's weird is that control SHOULD be me up, but they don't. As far as I'm personally concerned, I've played enough blue decks to know how to pick them apart and waste their resources. Since they don't really have any quick or scary win cons, I'm rarely under enough pressure to be forced into action early, so I can play the waiting game all day then win out of nowhere. I can't tell you how many times I have won the turn after a resolved Teferi (I pretend I care about it resolving, fight over it, use their mana, and then untap and Emrakul). But I think the biggest reason I'm never scared of interactive decks is that Breach/Emmy is mostly impossible to interact with. It's not like Twin where a Path/Push/Bolt could easily take care of it... You need exactly Counterspell or you lose (or narrow stuff like Blessed Alliance/Settle the Wreckage/etc, but attacking with a Snap as well nullifies Alliance...). Even discard spells aren't that great because Emmy shuffles back in and Breach can be cast with Snapcaster.
I really miss the tempo beats plan of Pestermites and Exarchs, but this is by far and away the closest "Twin" experience to date. It is unequivocally worse overall, but does have the added benefit of being nearly impossible to interact with (Hey WOTC, this is what you want out of Modern, right?). Plus, it's not nearly as difficult/awkward to cast as Kiki Jiki. And as much as I want to play Madcap, I also don't want to rest my victory on a glorified vanilla ground creature with no evasion. That was the trap I fell into with Death's Shadow.
Yeah, you play against one Control deck with this (or Twin) and you've played against them all. I 2-0 both UW, and UWR yesterday, and the UW game especially really just solidified my thoughts of 'Why would I not play this?' Just crushed him.
As you know I was all about the new hotness of Teferi and Search, but having 7 or 8 dead cards that can just win isn't the worst thing in the world, and sometimes Moon just does it.
I don't know, at this point I'm just exhausted from grinding out UWR games, you cannot just fire up MTGO for a quick UWR match and the games I would lose, time and again, we're against unfair decks I was just too slow to stop.
This feels like it will be my 'home deck' for the foreseeable future.
I thought it was common knowledge that blue moon was favored vs other blue control decks? Just watch the UW control players stream and they cry when they get paired against steam vents.
I thought it was common knowledge that blue moon was favored vs other blue control decks? Just watch the UW control players stream and they cry when they get paired against steam vents.
The Thing in the Ice versions are really bad. Anything that tries to win with "fair" or "fair-ish" creatures will have a hard time.
And I have held the personal opinion for years that UW is trash. Maybe some people finely tune it and spend years mastering it; I'm not one of them. If you want to play Ponza, play Ponza. UW is just bad Ponza with more bad matchups than Jeskai and less closing speed due to lack of burn spells.
UW Mana Denial has to be better than Ponza. It's got some of the same things going on, but Ponza needs those Mana Dorks, and has little to do if they cannot accelerate their Mana into BBE, and Free Stone Rains.
I love Thing in the Ice, they are in my sideboard with this deck, but as the main path to victory it's too vulnerable. Heck, Affinity just super bolts it, and that feels terrible.
UW Mana Denial has to be better than Ponza. It's got some of the same things going on, but Ponza needs those Mana Dorks, and has little to do if they cannot accelerate their Mana into BBE, and Free Stone Rains.
I love Thing in the Ice, they are in my sideboard with this deck, but as the main path to victory it's too vulnerable. Heck, Affinity just super bolts it, and that feels terrible.
Yeah, now that Affinity is mostly back to playing 4 Galv Blasts, Thing feels SOOOO bad. Nevermind literally everything else other than Bolt kills it. And most do it for 1 mana.
I don't know enough about UW to draw more complex conclusions, I just always hated how the deck played. "Hoping your opponent runs out of resources" is just not a good way to win in Modern. Ponza can at least throw an Inferno Titan at you as early as turn 4. And they have Bloodbraid Elf for extra speed and value.
The problem of UR Breach is that, while being a better deck overall (for the same reasons Twin was good, as someone already said) it’s also more ‘hit or miss’ with the field. In the sense that, while having a better chance against several decks in the format, it has a terrible game against some others. If you were to play - let’s make an example - the Madcap version, you would have certainly a much, much better shot against things like Affinity, Infect, Burn and such, which are all almost miserable for Breach. Playing with TiTi also allows you to contain better fast aggro because of the inner ‘block ability’ of Thing, and so on. That means, UR a Breach is insanely powerful in certain fields, but not everywhere.
I'm not positive that TiTi is remotely enough in this deck, to handle fast aggro. The Galvanic Blasts out of Affinity, the 'go ahead and put a creature down so I have something to Searing Blaze' Burn, or the Path/Push options...there's stuff out there that is going to make a 'fair' version of TiTi (not Bloo for example) feel simply terrible.
Infect, I can see being an issue for sure. Makes me wonder if I should dig out my Spellskite's, but until or if, it comes back, I dont think so.
I dont know, the Breach version just feels like gas. I can gold fish for 4 turns, and just wipe out their board, I can fight over resources, and win out of nowhere, or pivot into a more tempo/burn plan in the later games if needed. Its been SUPER great so far.
Anyone still grinding this? I strayed a little, got beat up on (UWR just drains me right now so playing janky fun stuff) but came back to this and it remains better than people think.
I even played a mirror, he got salty when I 2-0 him.
I've been playing this deck on Modo and finally got the last breach needed for paper, so I'll be playing it at my LGS tonight. This is the list I have sleeved up (slightly different build on modo) https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1041423#paper
I have -1 Jace, -1 Cryptic, -1 loothouse for +3 serum
I honestly love the deck, but at times when we don't draw the cards we need it can feel really bad. I've played with adjusting the counterspells, either adding more or changing some number of remands for mana leaks or logic knots, but honestly the draw seems so important. There are so many games where I'm just trying to stall until I get my last piece.
I was really salty about the B&R either not giving me Ponder/Preordain or banning stirrings, but that's my Blue player entitlement showing lol. I honestly hate serum visions and have toyed with the idea of cutting it altogether, but as of now I feel it's a necessary piece. I've toyed with adding a fun-of supreme will, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Sorry for my rambling, I've been lurking this thread for weeks and figured I'd start talking due to the thread inactivity.
*Edit* What's the consensus on land count? I see both 22 and 23 count lists but I haven't been able to form a personal opinion yet. Some games on 22 I still draw 4 lands in a row, other times I'm sitting on the combo and stuck on 4 lands. Is 23 with the 2 loothouses the best option? What if moon is in play?
I had Supreme Will in a combo deck I messed around with months ago, and as Search has proven, dig 4 is a very meaningful set of text for a Blue deck. I think I'll try one in place of one of my non-remand, non-spell snare's, good idea to test. :]
As for lands, I feel with 7+ cantrip like cards (4 Serum, 3 Opt, 2 Electrolyze, 3/4 Cryptic, Lighthouse) 23 is certainly enough. I dont like going down to 22 however. If you are running any Field of Ruin, 23 would also seem correct.
I dont have the math around the land count, but I think the base of the land is something like this. Very clean.
My Fridays and Mondays the last week or two have been taken up by D&D, so I don't have much to update with my list, other than I've been fiddling with the idea of just TRYING Kiki Mite again. Basically -4 Breach, -3 Emmy, -1 Moon for +3 Mite, +2 Exarch, +3 Kiki. This gives me the same (better, actually) combo distribution as 4 Breach 3 Emmy, as opposed to 6/2, tappers/kiki, meaning it is at least AS reliable, and possibly slightly more (5/3 vs 4/3). The removal of a Moon seems kind of counterintuitive, but considering I am usually fetching island island island to prep for Moon, it means I can't cast Kiki. So Moon becomes a secondary or tertiary goal instead of nearly a primary one. Going to see if this plan makes the Kiki combo more reliable and adds dimmension to the deck in terms of playability and fun as a tempo build. I have been greatly successful with Breach Moon, but any game not against Uxx/BGx isn't really that fun. Giving my combo pieces something to DO may increase that? Iduno.
Edit: as for land bases and such, I run nearly identical to what idsurge has listed and have been fairly successful (-1 Sulfur Falls, +1 Field of Ruin) Though instead of the second Elecrtolyze, I am running a main deck Sweltering Suns. I am also only running 3 Cryptics to make room for a second Spell Snare.
There is obviously something to be said for the Tempo plan, the tension between Cryptics UUU and Kiki's RRR was always a challenge for me to stomach, if Kiki was 3RR...man. The game against my tilted Breach opponent last night was won on Game 1 Snap/Burn with a Snare pushing him over the edge 'you are just luck' and then game 2 I had left the combo (3/3 split) in, but loaded up on counters, I dont remember if I even put Jace in, and then just worked him down until I had 2 Breach in hand, forced a fight 1 turn early over an EOT Cryptic to try and choke out his mana a bit, and then EOT next turn feign a fight over an EOT Breach, leaving him with 1 mana for the turn I actually wanted to cast it, and so I Breached, he Dispel, and I Remand (the same remand he had JUST remanded...lol) and that was the game an easy 2-0 I didnt go under 15 either game.
He then proceeded to let me know I was all about lucky draws, and that he just had terrible luck and that magic sucks.
Point is, a better Tempo plan would have made that a lot easier as I had to drag it out and then stage fights with Cryptics of all things to force the action.
Honestly, I'm probably too wrapped up in D&D at the moment to make any real progress evolving the deck. Beyond continuing our "main campaign", I am personally designing and preparing a separate Ixalan-themed campaign with new characters, building from WOTC's one shot story and supplemental material.
Short version: Likely going to keep Breach Moon as is because I can play it in my sleep these days.
Had some additional success with the deck, 3-1 against Pillow Fort (2-0), Tron (1-2...throw me a bone deck plz...) Burn (2-1 !!) and RG Eldrazi (2-1, Nice Mountains in Game 3...:p) and I couldnt be happier with the deck actually.
Being able to play the 2 main deck Snare's, you'd be surprised how often its a blow out.
I'm almost at the point of selling my UWR and just playing this. Supreme Will hasnt done anything for me yet that Leak or Negate wouldnt have (in game) as I just needed the counter more than having the chance to dig. Hour of Devastation is a test, sometimes there are just things we cannot bolt. I'm still happy with the TiTi sideboard plan. Not as a sweeper really, but as a win con if they saw the Combo already.
I've been running 2 Snares since forever. There are just SO MANY GOOD TARGETS IN EVERY DECK not to run at least two at all times.
How do you feel about the Mana Leak, second Electrolyze, and only 3 Breach? I have had great luck with Abrade in my flex slot and sometimes feel "Breach flooded" myself. Does cutting one seem like a noticeable improvement? It seems like it would make turn 5 much less reliable (which is already fairly unreliable, especially when you 'need' it to be).
I've been good with it, its a change I made just for these last 4 games. Even with Twin I used to shave parts of the combo Main deck, and with Opt now? I'm ok with this. Breach or Emy alone are just plain dead, and if I dont have it in my hand turns 1/2 then they are not discard/extraction targets so...ok. Maybe its greedy, but it hasnt burned me.
Leak has been good. It still wins counter wars when it needs to, and since the action for us is early (Serum, Remand/Leak, Moon, Cryptic) if we are even remotely trying to curve, its fine. When its late game, meh, its late game, and we see who has drawn to their outs better.
I still like the 2nd Electrolyze main, velocity is very important, and while Abrade will almost never be dead the difference is minimal I would imagine if we looked at our common opponents for 2 vs 3 damage, and the ability to blow out a few 2/1 or 0/1 dorks is golden. 2 Abrade in the side for Hollow One/Affinity is key of course. I was trying a Lavamancer (2 actually) in the side, but since we see (or at least I do) GY hate the moment people see Islands, I've dropped them.
Snare feels like cheating, honestly. Ramps up the salt levels a good 50% when you cast it, every time.
I'm actually heading to my shop, going to swap out some UWR staples I'm not using and see how far I can get in foiling this out.
People just dont bother to even try and play around 'twin like' decks anymore, I swear.
EDIT x 2: Punt vs Storm.
Game 1, Moon, Breach.
Game 2, I cannot find either, and my fist full's of burn is not enough to prevent the Goblin's from storming me.
Game 3, Long, lots of action on both sides, comes down to near top decks, when I get stupid, at 7, cast Sweltering to kill a mass of Goblins and Baral, leaving me at 4 Mana, with Cryptic, and him at 1 card. I cast...Thing, leaving up 2 useless Mana....He plays another land, and Past in Flames, GG.
Not to say I had it locked up of course, but I like my odds when I am top decking more so than Storm...
EDIT x 3: Another win against Burn, lost Game 1, win Game 2 at 1 Life (Thing bounced his team), with Game 3 at 5, with a late Breach. Love the deck.
Good job there. That is an amazing record with the deck. I didn't realize that you could beat those such decks with consistency.
I tried UR Breach for a bit, but I just found it tough to find the combo. In theory, it seems easy to find it with Serum Visions, Opt, and Snapcaster Mage with those, but I often couldn't find both of them until the bottom 30 cards of my deck. Still, I managed 5-3 with the deck. I really like your list as well. Even the SB is something that I would run nearly the same 15 and that is very hard to say in today's meta. (What I mean is that I used to mostly copy SBs, but I have adapted it a bunch to the metas that I play or expect to play in currently.)
I would love to see some pictures of the foils. I am a foil WHORE myself. I got my Field of Ruin foil for $18 shipped, but it may be a tiny bit higher now and yes, it DID suck paying that. But then I also paid $50 and 2 FNM Opt for a Karn, Scion of Urza to play in Affinity. That hurts more.
I look forward to Preordain, a card that could significantly help a deck like this. I hate Opt. It's probably the main thing that stopped me from playing this deck, (aside from a "rougher than I would have thought matchup vs. Company decks.") I just don't think that the card is that good. I almost would rather run Thought Scour, but I realize that in theory at least, Opt helps dig towards Annihilator 6.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I keep forgetting how much of a pain it is to try and photograph foils. So I took a short video of the main board and side board. Along with a few total shots. Also an Honorable Mention to my signed Noah Bradley foil Islands that I'm not using because I only have 5 (and I need 7... ) The Mountain is a signed foil, but the Islands are currently non-foil Unstable.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I even tried UR Thing, UR Hard Control, UR Aggro, but the Breach build is just about there for our fallen god, so thats what I'm going to be doing for the foreseeable future.
Is there a reason, beyond personal preference for people to not be on the Breach version? It seems immensely strong.
Spirits
In addition to the bad matchups, I think the perception that "Jeskai is the best" is hurting Blue Moon too. Teferi and Azcanta are new, amazing, and exciting cards. Combined with the strong Humans/Affinity matchup for Jeskai (which are moderate to bad for Blue Moon), it would make sense that Jeskai is just more popular. Other than Abrade, Blue Moon hasn't really gotten anything new in a long time. Yeah, it got Jace, but he's really only a 1-2 of SB card, IMO.
What's weird is that control SHOULD be me up, but they don't. As far as I'm personally concerned, I've played enough blue decks to know how to pick them apart and waste their resources. Since they don't really have any quick or scary win cons, I'm rarely under enough pressure to be forced into action early, so I can play the waiting game all day then win out of nowhere. I can't tell you how many times I have won the turn after a resolved Teferi (I pretend I care about it resolving, fight over it, use their mana, and then untap and Emrakul). But I think the biggest reason I'm never scared of interactive decks is that Breach/Emmy is mostly impossible to interact with. It's not like Twin where a Path/Push/Bolt could easily take care of it... You need exactly Counterspell or you lose (or narrow stuff like Blessed Alliance/Settle the Wreckage/etc, but attacking with a Snap as well nullifies Alliance...). Even discard spells aren't that great because Emmy shuffles back in and Breach can be cast with Snapcaster.
I really miss the tempo beats plan of Pestermites and Exarchs, but this is by far and away the closest "Twin" experience to date. It is unequivocally worse overall, but does have the added benefit of being nearly impossible to interact with (Hey WOTC, this is what you want out of Modern, right?). Plus, it's not nearly as difficult/awkward to cast as Kiki Jiki. And as much as I want to play Madcap, I also don't want to rest my victory on a glorified vanilla ground creature with no evasion. That was the trap I fell into with Death's Shadow.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
As you know I was all about the new hotness of Teferi and Search, but having 7 or 8 dead cards that can just win isn't the worst thing in the world, and sometimes Moon just does it.
I don't know, at this point I'm just exhausted from grinding out UWR games, you cannot just fire up MTGO for a quick UWR match and the games I would lose, time and again, we're against unfair decks I was just too slow to stop.
This feels like it will be my 'home deck' for the foreseeable future.
Spirits
It would probably be fun though and has a lot of paths to winning.
Spirits
The Thing in the Ice versions are really bad. Anything that tries to win with "fair" or "fair-ish" creatures will have a hard time.
And I have held the personal opinion for years that UW is trash. Maybe some people finely tune it and spend years mastering it; I'm not one of them. If you want to play Ponza, play Ponza. UW is just bad Ponza with more bad matchups than Jeskai and less closing speed due to lack of burn spells.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I love Thing in the Ice, they are in my sideboard with this deck, but as the main path to victory it's too vulnerable. Heck, Affinity just super bolts it, and that feels terrible.
Spirits
Yeah, now that Affinity is mostly back to playing 4 Galv Blasts, Thing feels SOOOO bad. Nevermind literally everything else other than Bolt kills it. And most do it for 1 mana.
I don't know enough about UW to draw more complex conclusions, I just always hated how the deck played. "Hoping your opponent runs out of resources" is just not a good way to win in Modern. Ponza can at least throw an Inferno Titan at you as early as turn 4. And they have Bloodbraid Elf for extra speed and value.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I'm not positive that TiTi is remotely enough in this deck, to handle fast aggro. The Galvanic Blasts out of Affinity, the 'go ahead and put a creature down so I have something to Searing Blaze' Burn, or the Path/Push options...there's stuff out there that is going to make a 'fair' version of TiTi (not Bloo for example) feel simply terrible.
Infect, I can see being an issue for sure. Makes me wonder if I should dig out my Spellskite's, but until or if, it comes back, I dont think so.
I dont know, the Breach version just feels like gas. I can gold fish for 4 turns, and just wipe out their board, I can fight over resources, and win out of nowhere, or pivot into a more tempo/burn plan in the later games if needed. Its been SUPER great so far.
Spirits
I even played a mirror, he got salty when I 2-0 him.
Deck just seems solid.
Spirits
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1041423#paper
I have -1 Jace, -1 Cryptic, -1 loothouse for +3 serum
I honestly love the deck, but at times when we don't draw the cards we need it can feel really bad. I've played with adjusting the counterspells, either adding more or changing some number of remands for mana leaks or logic knots, but honestly the draw seems so important. There are so many games where I'm just trying to stall until I get my last piece.
I was really salty about the B&R either not giving me Ponder/Preordain or banning stirrings, but that's my Blue player entitlement showing lol. I honestly hate serum visions and have toyed with the idea of cutting it altogether, but as of now I feel it's a necessary piece. I've toyed with adding a fun-of supreme will, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Sorry for my rambling, I've been lurking this thread for weeks and figured I'd start talking due to the thread inactivity.
*Edit* What's the consensus on land count? I see both 22 and 23 count lists but I haven't been able to form a personal opinion yet. Some games on 22 I still draw 4 lands in a row, other times I'm sitting on the combo and stuck on 4 lands. Is 23 with the 2 loothouses the best option? What if moon is in play?
As for lands, I feel with 7+ cantrip like cards (4 Serum, 3 Opt, 2 Electrolyze, 3/4 Cryptic, Lighthouse) 23 is certainly enough. I dont like going down to 22 however. If you are running any Field of Ruin, 23 would also seem correct.
I dont have the math around the land count, but I think the base of the land is something like this. Very clean.
4 Flooded Strand
7 Island
1 Mountain
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Desolate Lighthouse
Spirits
Edit: as for land bases and such, I run nearly identical to what idsurge has listed and have been fairly successful (-1 Sulfur Falls, +1 Field of Ruin) Though instead of the second Elecrtolyze, I am running a main deck Sweltering Suns. I am also only running 3 Cryptics to make room for a second Spell Snare.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
He then proceeded to let me know I was all about lucky draws, and that he just had terrible luck and that magic sucks.
Point is, a better Tempo plan would have made that a lot easier as I had to drag it out and then stage fights with Cryptics of all things to force the action.
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Short version: Likely going to keep Breach Moon as is because I can play it in my sleep these days.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Being able to play the 2 main deck Snare's, you'd be surprised how often its a blow out.
I'm almost at the point of selling my UWR and just playing this. Supreme Will hasnt done anything for me yet that Leak or Negate wouldnt have (in game) as I just needed the counter more than having the chance to dig. Hour of Devastation is a test, sometimes there are just things we cannot bolt. I'm still happy with the TiTi sideboard plan. Not as a sweeper really, but as a win con if they saw the Combo already.
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
7 Island
1 Mountain
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Desolate Lighthouse
//Cantrip
4 Serum Visions
3 Opt
//Counter
2 Spell Snare
4 Remand
1 Mana Leak
3 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Electrolyze
1 Sweltering Suns
//Snaps
4 Snapcaster Mage
//Moon
3 Blood Moon
//Breach
3 Through the Breach
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Abrade
1 Roast
3 Thing in the Ice
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Hour of Devastation
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How do you feel about the Mana Leak, second Electrolyze, and only 3 Breach? I have had great luck with Abrade in my flex slot and sometimes feel "Breach flooded" myself. Does cutting one seem like a noticeable improvement? It seems like it would make turn 5 much less reliable (which is already fairly unreliable, especially when you 'need' it to be).
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Leak has been good. It still wins counter wars when it needs to, and since the action for us is early (Serum, Remand/Leak, Moon, Cryptic) if we are even remotely trying to curve, its fine. When its late game, meh, its late game, and we see who has drawn to their outs better.
I still like the 2nd Electrolyze main, velocity is very important, and while Abrade will almost never be dead the difference is minimal I would imagine if we looked at our common opponents for 2 vs 3 damage, and the ability to blow out a few 2/1 or 0/1 dorks is golden. 2 Abrade in the side for Hollow One/Affinity is key of course. I was trying a Lavamancer (2 actually) in the side, but since we see (or at least I do) GY hate the moment people see Islands, I've dropped them.
Snare feels like cheating, honestly. Ramps up the salt levels a good 50% when you cast it, every time.
I'm actually heading to my shop, going to swap out some UWR staples I'm not using and see how far I can get in foiling this out.
EDIT: Azban Hatebears Falls.
Turn 1: Flooded, Opt EOT Draw Bolt
Turn 2: Scalding, Crack in Response, Snare, Opt EOT Draw Moon
Turn 3: Steam Vents, Moon - Concede.
People just dont bother to even try and play around 'twin like' decks anymore, I swear.
EDIT x 2: Punt vs Storm.
Game 1, Moon, Breach.
Game 2, I cannot find either, and my fist full's of burn is not enough to prevent the Goblin's from storming me.
Game 3, Long, lots of action on both sides, comes down to near top decks, when I get stupid, at 7, cast Sweltering to kill a mass of Goblins and Baral, leaving me at 4 Mana, with Cryptic, and him at 1 card. I cast...Thing, leaving up 2 useless Mana....He plays another land, and Past in Flames, GG.
Not to say I had it locked up of course, but I like my odds when I am top decking more so than Storm...
EDIT x 3: Another win against Burn, lost Game 1, win Game 2 at 1 Life (Thing bounced his team), with Game 3 at 5, with a late Breach. Love the deck.
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