MTG Salvation

That reminds me of the Grixis Control decks from ye olde days of Splinter Twin and Jund. Maindeck Keranos is something I've wanted to toy around with for a long time because I love that card, but sometimes it just doesn't do enough. Have any of your matchups changed after switching to this?

@thealler I've never tried abrade main deck, so I don't know how it rates. I'm a big fan of negate since this deck is able to pick off a lot of creatures. You can also try a thought scour as it fuels pyre, snap, and knot, as well as clearing Jace brain storms when moon is out. Scour is good with titi. There's also sweltering sun's, which I am trying out.

I've only been playing practice games with the grixis version, but I don't think I'm sold. The black splash makes moon and cryptic worse. And the main deck Kcommand wasn't that great for me as it was hard for my snapcasters to hit the bin. The Kcommand was only amazing in the game 1s where the destroy artifact mode was relevant. The sideboard games it gets a lot better since those games are more grindy. I didn't play enough games where cast down was relevant.

I feel like terminate is a trap as you don't want to fetch either red or black early. You generally want to fetch islands unless you want to bolt something. I would stick with cast down.

You splash black to kill 4 toughness creatures, and Kcommand gives you insane late game, but I don't think those features are what the deck wants at the moment.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Terminate messes up the mana and your life total way too much. This deck wants to go turn 1 island most of the time. Though i'm not sure the best way to solve your tasigur answer, is go for the throat playable in your meta? For the board there's liliana's defeat, but I don't know if that's worth it in your meta.

I just played this deck for the first time — also my first time playing Modern in maybe 4-5 months — and managed to go 4-0 at my LGS. It’s a pretty competitive crowd, so I’m quite happy with the result. I basically copied Ross Merriam’s list, substituting Young Pyromancers in the sideboard as I don’t own Thing in the Ice, and I figured Pyromancer provided a slightly different angle of attack (along with a couple other "fun-ofs", partially metagamed for my normally control-heavy LGS). In the main deck, I had a second Electrolyze over an Abrade, as Electrolyze is a more flexible card in general.



My matches were Jund (2-0 or 2-1; I can’t recall); Amulet Titan (2-1); Colorless Eldrazi (2-1); B/G (2-1).

Without going into too much detail, here are some general observations, some of which may be obvious to people already playing the deck, as well as a fun moment or two:

In my matches against both Jund and B/G, my opponents took Blood Moon out of my hand *even though they had basic swamp and forest on board*, leaving Snapcaster, Vendilion Clique, and Cryptic Command in hand. This felt *great*, as I don’t even necessarily want to play Moon on turn 3 if they have already fetched basics. Blood Moon was still great in the matchups to constrain their mana and shut off their creature lands.

Against Amulet Titan, we had a funny game 1, where I resolved a Blood Moon, and a turn or two later he Summoner’s Pact’d for a Reclamation Sage, cast it, and destroyed the Blood Moon. I untapped and drew a Blood Moon for turn, locking him out of GG and winning the game. He was a good sport about it, thankfully.

Against Colorless Eldrazi, I lost game 1 (predictably, I think). I sideboard out 4 Remand, 1 Electrolyze, and 2 Jace, leaving in the Snares for Chalice of the Void. I brought in 2 Abrade, 2 Roast, and 3 Young Pyromancer. In game 2, I was able to land a Young Pyromancer and make a few tokens by casting spells into the Chalice (pretty much the game plan here), and had running Cryptics to tap-draw and attack for lethal over two turns. In game 3, I had to throw back a 7 with 3 lands and 3 cantrips (dead to Chalice), and thankfully drew a 6 with 2 lands and a Pyromancer. I thought I was fairly dead to two Eternal Scourges, but managed to block one with a Clique, block another with a Snap + elemental, and counter a third later in the game with Logic Knot. In the meantime, I had landed a Blood Moon on turn 5-6, while he had multiple Mutavaults and Blinkmoth Nexuses, but no basic Wastes, shutting him off a number of cards in hand. After playing draw-go for 4-5 turns, my opponent cast a Serum Powder, and I countered it with a Cryptic Command to try to keep him off colorless mana — which, though I never saw his hand during/after the game, was the right play, I think. I managed to win the game off the back of a Clique and two Snapcasters attacking for lethal over three turns, along with a couple of Bolts to my opponent.

In my B/G/x matches, I felt *very* soft to a resolved Tarmogoyf / Eldrazi / even a Scavenging Ooze. The deck has ways of dealing with them (I think I used Jace’s unsummon mode 7-8 times over the night, not counting once on my own Snapcaster), but another removal spell capable of killing a large creature seems like it would be very valuable, likely in the main deck.

Jace was a solid support card, but not a win condition. I mostly brainstormed to dig for more action, but also used the unsummon mode many times to remove blockers and prevent attacks, and once or twice to force my opponent to re-cast a creature into Spell Snare / Cryptic Command. In one game, I just unsummoned three times to prevent dying to a large Tarmogoyf and push through damage, which worked well enough. I did +2 on my Amulet Titan opponent after seeing a hand with no action from a Clique, but it was more of a way to try to keep him off balance than an actual route to victory.

I only cast Keranos in one game against B/G, but he was pretty great. I bottomed him off a Serum Visions in another game against B/G as I needed to make land drops to unlock my hand, which was quite sad, but the right decision, I think.

Pia and Kiran were very strong the two times I cast them, though I never made use of the activated ability. With more play, I’m sure I would. Clique was excellent, obviously.

I activated Lighthouse exactly 0 times. The only time it was 'useful' was in coming into play as a mountain to give me a second red source under a Blood Moon. But I also didn't have it on board without a Blood Moon in the 'grindy' times during my games with the BGx decks and didn't play against another control deck.

I think the only thing I would change in the main deck is adding an additional removal spell capable of dealing with large creatures. I think I prefer the instant speed of Harvest Pyre over something like Roast, so I’d probably cut one Logic Knot for one Harvest Pyre, though I could also see cutting Remand or Electrolyze instead. Given that Harvest Pyre needs a fair number of cards 'delved', and that there are 9 counterspells other than Logic Knot in the main deck, I think I'd lean towards cutting the Logic Knot.

I never made use of Teferi (a fun-of and metagame choice against my normally control-heavy LGS) or Relic of Progenitus in the sideboard, but could see both being fine choices to keep (though Teferi should probably be something more competitive, like an Engineered Explosives). Counterflux could easily be Negate, but again was a bit of a fun-of/metagame choice. And I probably got a bit lucky with my matchups in that Blood Moon was very good against all of the decks I played, but I also didn't feel that the matchup was in my favor, per se -- and it felt like I stole a win off a very bad matchup against Colorless Eldrazi.

Hello all,

I've tried to get away with blue red pyromancer, but I can't gel with it, and I think I need to go all in on hard control. I'm without Jace's and money at the moment, so I've slapped together Ross Merriam's list with -2 JTMS +1 Cryptic +1 Torrential Gearhulk. No Madcap/Breach combos either.

What do you all think of a 4th cryptic and gearhulk as another finisher?

My local meta is wonderful for this deck. Lots of Mardu, Jeskai, and UW. I am currently undefeated against midrange and control, but get fairly wrecked by most fast aggro decks. My losses include things like Elves, Merfolk, and Affinity, and are bad enough for me to want to put Sweltering Suns somewhere in the main deck. Either way, this deck is fantastic fun to play and I have had great success with it when the game goes past 5 or 6 turns. I have also found that Jace AOT is great at stifling the bleeding from go-wide strategies as I tick up on my way to getting a free Emrakul (and cast trigger for it...)

I'm going to guess that the RiP and/or Stony Silence are for KCI decks, where Moon may not be as effective. Same for Affinity. But yeah, I'd be interested in seeing a SB plan for this deck since it has TitI as well.

Hows your Storm match up folks? I'm tired of losing that one. :]

Yeah I last played this with a Kiki build, but I cannot go back to that. Going to try the Emmy version tonight.

EDIT: I remember now why these decks tilt me, and its that 5 mana (Kiki/Breach) cost. Any reason (as the primer is not current) Search isnt ran in this for the pseudo ramp?

EDIT x 2:

2-0 Grixis Control
1-2 Tron (couldnt find a moon or emmy in Game 3 and it went LONG)
2-1 Mardu (boarded out Combo in Game 2, casting Remand and Keranos again brought a tear to my eye!)

Quote from idSurge »

Yeah I last played this with a Kiki build, but I cannot go back to that. Going to try the Emmy version tonight.

EDIT: I remember now why these decks tilt me, and its that 5 mana (Kiki/Breach) cost. Any reason (as the primer is not current) Search isnt ran in this for the pseudo ramp?

I think the Kiki version isn't bad if you aren't leaning on the Blood Moon plan. When I am playing Breach, I essentially fetch nothing but Islands unless I absolutely need a red source. It works out well when my plan is to slam a Moon as soon as possible most of the time. And even then, the deck functions fine and smoothly with only 1-2 red sources. With Kiki, I would likely forgo the forced moon (or hold back on casting it if it's not a slam dunk) to keep the combo live. The main difference (besides vastly different mana commitments) is that Pestermites can actually attack and Exarchs can block, in addition to both being disruptive tempo plays. I still like Breach better because I take less damage off my lands when fetching Islands, but I have also had a nonzero number of games where Emrakul isn't enough to win... Either way, fetching lands and play patterns are fairly different between Kiki and Breach.

As for Azcanta, I don't like it because it means I'm not holding up Remand. My ideal curve is T1 Serum/Bolt, Turn 2 Remand, T3 Moon, T4 Cryptic, T5 Breach. Tapping out on 2 means either going three turns without representing permission (assuming you Moon on 3) or prolonging your Moon to 4, at which point you aren't holding up Cryptic. Plus there's the awkwardness of binning an Emrakul if you don't need one. It screws your Snaps, exposes to the opponent what you're doing (Breach/Emmy still gets many by surprise, since Thing/Clique/P&K builds are more popular). It's also fairly bad with Blood Moon, which I am usually trying to slam as soon as possible. If I'm playing Azcanta out of the side for a grindy matchup, I'd rather just use the slots for extra Jaces and Keranos.

Thanks that makes sense.

The one note lack of a real plan b in game one is still frustrating, but I guess that's just how it goes.

Quote from idSurge »

Thanks that makes sense.

The one note lack of a real plan b in game one is still frustrating, but I guess that's just how it goes.

Honestly, I already see plans of Blood Moon (Plan A) Breach (Plan B) and Bolt Snap Bolt/Snap Beats (Plan C). A lot of times Blood Moon alone could win you the game, or at least buy time to dig for the combo. It's not ideal, but it's the best we got until they release Twin back to us.

Quote from cfusionpm »

Quote from idSurge »

Thanks that makes sense.

The one note lack of a real plan b in game one is still frustrating, but I guess that's just how it goes.

Honestly, I already see plans of Blood Moon (Plan A) Breach (Plan B) and Bolt Snap Bolt/Snap Beats (Plan C). A lot of times Blood Moon alone could win you the game, or at least buy time to dig for the combo. It's not ideal, but it's the best we got until they release Twin back to us.

Yeah you know what I'm getting at. The fact Breach/Emmy are dead by themselves, leaves us with no way 'win' Plan A (because we know Moon doesnt 'win') and Snaps/Bolts/Electrolyze as B, which is normally fine but yeah.

Its a pale shadow of our once glorious lord.

Quote from idSurge »

Quote from cfusionpm »

Quote from idSurge »

Thanks that makes sense.

The one note lack of a real plan b in game one is still frustrating, but I guess that's just how it goes.

Honestly, I already see plans of Blood Moon (Plan A) Breach (Plan B) and Bolt Snap Bolt/Snap Beats (Plan C). A lot of times Blood Moon alone could win you the game, or at least buy time to dig for the combo. It's not ideal, but it's the best we got until they release Twin back to us.

Yeah you know what I'm getting at. The fact Breach/Emmy are dead by themselves, leaves us with no way 'win' Plan A (because we know Moon doesnt 'win') and Snaps/Bolts/Electrolyze as B, which is normally fine but yeah.

Its a pale shadow of our once glorious lord.

True, but I have surprised myself with how many times Moon either just won, or basically facilitated a win via something as mundane as 10 turns of Snapcaster beats. Landing a moon with Remand up is amazing because they often can't recast their colored spell. Landing a moon with Snap Remand doubles the clock. Landing a moon with Remand and Cryptic is often good enough. As much as I want to play a game like Jeskai, Modern is just too unforgiving to decks that want to play fair. If this is what WOTC wants for the format, this is what I'll play.

Eh, I'm not going to play those better unfair decks. I just stop playing until they go away. Search, and then Teferi, was enough to at least get me playing again, but you DO need something unfair, especially if you are playing online, otherwise you'll just lose to something unfair.

I've been meaning to try TitI. The card seems really strong but I don't want to tap out on turn 2 if I don't have to. Has anybody here tried it? What have the results been?

I've not played it in this deck, but in others you just want to force their hand. Thing is a card that say's 'if you dont answer me soon, you die' and with a lot of cantrips, this deck will flip it quick.

I would probably tap out for it. Force the answer, then slam the Moon.

Alright, I'm down. I'll give it a shot because the more I consider it the more hilarious it is.

So I'll go on some ramblings with this deck over the last month or so. Between FNM and Modern Mondays in the last month or so, I have 4-0'd once and 3-1'd each remaining time for an overall record of 16-4 (80% WR) across the last 5 times playing with this deck. When combined with Vegas side events (7-3), that number jumps to an overall 23-7 (77% WR) since early June. Of the 7 losses, they were Affinity (x2), Elves, Merfolk, Hollow One, Tron, and Burn. Tron was the most recent loss (last night), which felt especially bad after slamming a turn 3 Moon on a mull to 5, just to have them untap, play a forest, and Nature's Claim it.



All in all, this deck is essentially unbeatable for fair decks, grindy decks, control decks, midrange decks, etc. It probably helps that I have specifically tuned it to be so, with 3 Jaces (2 Sculptor, 1 Architect) and a Keranos in the side.

Against most fair decks, if I win game 1 without them seeing the combo, I generally leave 5 pieces in (3 Breach 2 Emmy) and bring in whatever suits the opponent. If they see the combo, I usually take it out entirely (maybe leaving 1 Emmy in for Jace AOT, which has gotten an Emrakul more than once, while keeping me alive against spirit and elemental tokens). Breach still gets a lot of people by surprise. I'm not sure why, but I guess people expect Thing in the Ice and P&K and Cliques and other fair nonsense. The ability to board out the combo and bring in tons of great grindy cards reminds me a lot of Twin. As soon as I get near 5 mana, suddenly their play slows down and they are more careful. Easy then to pick a fight on their end step then untap and slam a Jace or Keranos. I am undefeated against Jeskai, UW, Jund, and Mardu.

Against fast aggro decks, I'm fairly weak. I have diversified the sideboard to help a bit, but it's a lot of "find these cards or die" most of the time. And since the combo is 5 mana instead of 4, it's much more rare to actually have it, so it's not something I can rely on in a timely way. If I draw all my removal, it's a crushing victory. If I don't, it's a fairly decisive loss. Things that don't die to Bolt are extremely difficult to deal with. I am trying a Sweltering Suns main deck to try and help. It has not been relevant in a game 1 yet (I have only cast in a game 2, in which it was great). I usually have to aggressively mulligan for removal most of the time and am still unsure how much (if any) of the combo to leave in past game 1. Sometimes I am dead before it matters, and sometimes it has won me games from being at 2 life and dead on the next turn. The inconsistency and cost of the combo is frustrating and complex.

I played at least one match against UB Mill. Game 1 he managed to surgical my Emrakul, but still got there with Snaps and Bolts. Game 2 he never found Surgical and... that was that.

Tron is super hit and miss. Especially with Ulamog, the deck goes back to the old "find the combo or die" game. Because even if I can buy time with Moon and counter their things, eventually Ulamog is going to come down and just wreck me. Still hate this deck.

Nobody at my store plays Humans. Or if they do, I have never been matched with them. I'm sure my matchup isn't awful, but I can't imagine it's all that great if I can't kill their stuff early.

Hollow One is dumb. My GY hate is minimal, but the real problem is the need for specific cards and them aggressively and randomly screwing my hand. Luckily, I think only one person plays this and I've only played them once (and lost).

Wonky random decks. Mostly doing the old Serum/Remand/Moon dance is enough when I can slam an unexpected Breach any time after turn 5. Been pretty lucky so far.

Burn is a tricky matchup and very tight. Lost 1-2, where each game finished with both of us at 5 life or less. Might have been able to navigate a little better, but Eidolon is really rough to deal with. Also, drawing removal when they draw spells, or drawing Negates and Dispels when they draw creatures... is still a thing.

I'm sure there is much more for this deck. I definitely continue to hold that I will not be playing large competitive events with it and that my success is mostly due to dodging a lot of the "top decks" that represent fairly poor matchups. I eat midrange and control for breakfast, and luckily most of my local meta is that (and wonky brews). The entire deck (main and side) is foiled, other than the Breaches (waiting for reprint), Field of Ruin (I'm not paying $25 for an in-print, standard-legal uncommon), and Abrade/Electrolyze (full art promos instead). List of card versions here.

Quote from gkourou »

So, how are you crushing Jund, a deck that plays a lot of threats that don't die to bolt? *tarmogoyf, possibly grim flayer?

Spell Snare, Cryptic to tap team or bounce something, bolt snap bolt, snap block+bolt, Engineered Explosives, Jace bouncing, etc. Goyf is really the only thing they have that doesn't die to bolt (haven't seen Flayer once), and the others I can usually tag before they matter (Ravine/Ooze). I've only played Jund itself twice. Most midrange I'm seeing is Mardu, which is much easier to deal with. But overall, as long as I'm not dead within the first few turns, I my likelihood of winning grows with each additional turn. Stringing Snaps and Remands and Cryptics is great. I especially love Cryptic: counter, bounce my Snap, then Snap+Cryptic. Plus, like Twin, they generally slow their play a bit and avoid tapping out or over-extending. Because unlike Twin, Breach is an instant speed combo that they can't really interact with outside of Thoughtsieze.

Edit: Oh yeah, and Blood Moon is a card. So either I totally hose them, or they have to awkwardly fetch and heavily hinder their own pace anyway. Plus, nothing feels better than Remanding a spell under a Blood Moon when they only have one black or one green source.