MTG Salvation

The issue with Last Reckoning is that it's sort of a stop gap measure to try and find an ensnaring bridge. It buys you a turn to try and find bridge, but the opponent can rebuild too quickly. It doesn't synergize with Ruins or Stirrings either. Over all it's not a terrible card, but because so much of our deck relies on blanking the opponents creatures in general it doesn't do as well as one would think.

I have a feeling Reckoning will go like this:

Opp: Drop Tas and a Shadow
Us: Play Reckoning
Opp: Drop another Shadow
Us: ...
Opp: Swing 10

The time walk effect is a real drawback and idk if it's worth it.

Honestly, I think Magus of the Moat is just better. It costs one more, sure, but also has much less potential to backfire.

For a sweeper, I would rather play with Terminus and Noxious.

Quote from Dice_Bag »

For a sweeper, I would rather play with Terminus and Noxious.

Maybe you're on to something... It's a shame I have no room for a sweeper in my mainboard.

Ninja-Edit: Maybe in my SB?

Turtle-Edit: I have a one-of Dispatch that I could swap out for this. Problem is I like Dispatch.

I started streaming and recording videos on twitch.tv/thursdayisgo if anyone wants to check it out, I also provided a link to this primer on that page.

The build was 3 leyline, 1 nox revival main, I still like leyline but nox rev was hugely disappointing.

Cop black was also not particularly impressive. I didn't face any shadow decks and only brought it in vs living end, where it didn't come up.

I plan on picking up some baubles and running kanister's list, it seems to be the highest performing and most consistent version, I do miss running infernal tutor as well.

I'm going to bring the discussion back to Bontu's Last Reckoning for a moment. Honestly I think this card is a huge card for Lantern Control, and let me explain why.

One of my biggest downfalls with Lantern is when I get out a Bridge, and my opponent just amasses a board state, finds a way to deal with Bridge, and kills me. Now granted it doesn't happen in a large percentage of games, but it happens often enough for me to be extremely annoyed by it.

The matches where this situation occurs usually has the following circumstances in place:

1) I have little or no lock in place
2) I have no discard to interact with their hand
3) A combination of 1 and 2

Now maybe my luck is just the worst imaginable and I get these situations arising more often than they should, but having a card in my deck that just reads "Destroy all creatures" is fantastic. So here's an obvious question then. Why didn't I run Damnation? Simple answer is that it was too much mana. 4 is a huge difference from 3 when you are talking about clearing the board in Modern. Next obvious question; what about Terminus. My problem with Terminus is two-fold. First is that we can't control when we cast Terminus. Perhaps it's on top of our deck when our opponent has an empty board. The second problem I have is that if the card is not miracled, it costs 6 whole mana. 6 MANA! That's ridiculous! You should never expect yourself to get to 6 mana in a game, and if you do, Terminus is win-more. What Terminus does do however, is clog up your hand allowing creatures to get through your Ensnaring Bridge.

Bontu's Last Reckoning is both easier to cast, and we are able to cast it when we want to. Honestly I feel this card is great for the deck. Not 4 of great, but possibly 2 or 3 of great.

Awesome

About the Bauble builds, I have a question for everyone running all the different builds. There seem to be three main builds:

-4 Bauble
-Main Leyline
-GB with flex spots

If anyone (or everyone) could post which build they go with, along with their sideboard plans (and gameplan in general) specific to that build for as many matchups as possible, I'd appreciate it. I want to update the primer to reflect that information, so any newer pilots can get the information specific to their chosen build. Thanks!

Both my lists are in my signature
I keep them up to date from whenever I modify them

I don't like bontu's at all, it doesn't create any semblance of a lock, it will clog up your hand and can easily result in "feel bad" moments when you pop it and they eot-coco. Definitely worth testing and would be happy to eat my words but I don't see enough potential to get me excited to tested it.

So far white leyline has impressed me the most against eldrazi tron, there are two times of games we can lose: turn 2-3 thought-knot taking bridge and unable to find another bridge or with an early chalice on 1 and we take some chip damage before we land a hellbent bridge but then it's a race for them to draw karn (2) ratchet bomb (2) ballista (4) or enbringer (2-3) before we draw decay (2) seal (~2). I like leyline a lot because it negates the first type of game and it neutralizes a lot of their top decks in the second type.

I haven't played bauble yet but I imagine it is bad against eldrazi tron (chalice), about the same vs discard decks, a little worse against storm (maybe a lot because of gifts?), dredge, and burn, and a lot better everywhere else (affinity, taxes, coco, etc)

@thnkr my list is a BGx flex slots list. List might not be as fast as the baubles lists and I do not play either revival or leylines main. The full set of leylines are ofc in the board.

When boarding I basically shave the cards that are bad in a given MU and bring the ones that are better or upgrades. The cards that are usually cut depending on MUs are: brutalities, Decays, needles, surgicals, an opal and bell/pyxis.

- Magus of the Moat is something I am testing to see if having another bridge on a creature card can either lock games or force opponents to keep in bad cards.

- The extra pithing needle and surgical is for the tron variants mainly. The plan is to go for the mana and lock down critical wincons.

- Lost Legacy is another flex slot in my board. It is in there for stuff like living ends, prime times, scapeshifts, stuff from eldrazi tron etc.

- Grafdiggers Cage comes in vs the coco/chord decks, snapcaster decks if the build allows me to cut enough from main, dredge and decks that has ancient grudge mainly.

- Welding Jar is protection and comes in vs decks that has lots of ways to remove a bridge.

- Seal of Primordium is an all star. Kills leylines, chalices and stony silence and you don't have to hold it in your hand. Kills other stuff too, but those are primary and I see alot of those. Often i go 3/3 on brutality and decay for the same reason.

- Leylines come in vs discard heavy decks, burn, valakut and stuff like that. They are not main at the moment by could warrant being there.


Now to the List:

---- spells 42 ----
4x lantern of insight
4x codex shredder
3x ghoulcallers bell
1x pyxis of pandemonium
4x ensnaring bridge
4x mox opal
3x pithing needle

4x inquisition
2x thoughtseize
2x surgical extraction
4x collective brutality
2x abrupt decay
4x ancient stirrings
1x infernal tutor


---- lands 18 ----
4x blooming marsh
3x ghost quarter
4x glimmer void
2x inventors fair
2x academy ruins
2x spire of industry
1x swamp


---- SB 15 ----
1x Magus of the Moat
1x Surgical extraction
1x lost legacy
1x pithing needle
2x grafdiggers cage
2x welding jar
3x seal of primordium
4x leyline of sanctity

Quote from 4554551n »

Hey all,

I used to play this deck a lot and some may remember me. I switched to tokens when times got tough, but am looking to come back to my favourite deck. Couple quick questions for the regulars like thinkr to save me going through 30 pages:
Why did people stop running bauble?
Why did people stop running crane?
Why did people stop running (or at least maining) skyte?
Why is leyline main now?
(I know all lists are different, and some still run these, but these are the big changes since I stopped, and I'm curious about the reasoning behind them)

Ill try and answer, at least these are my reasons:

Bauble is perfectly fine. It makes us play less cards and therefore have more consistency. The opal hands get a fair deal faster also. I guess this is just a matter of taste when playing with or without.

As for crane, I dont want to be dependant on blue mana with the amount of colorless lands we play. Straight BG having glimmervoids and spires for academy is how I personally like the deck. Crane also actually turns on removal, so having it as a finisher or blocker for very long didn't seem plausible. I might be wrong though.

Spellskite is kind of the same as crane in the sense that is doesn't hose many decks anymore, and is basically just a 2 mana welding jar that dies to removal. They are great vs exile effects when they come up, and are much better after board when all the removal is boarded out.

Leyline main is a way to combat the discard heavy meta of especially GDS. If has great splash effect of being very good against eldrazi tron, valakut and burn also.

These are my thoughts on each, but others might have reasons of their own.

Anybody testing Ramunap Exacavator in the list as a budget alternative to Crucible? Got one at the prerelease this week and swapped out my sideboard Golgari Charm for it. Won't be able to test it this week, the lantern hate is getting a tad too thick for my liking at my LGS (some people have over half their sideboard dedicated to just beating my deck) so I'll be janking it up with Possibility Storm until I get the funds to finish Bogles.

I tested 4 bauble build last night, I definitely think it's objectively better

g1 vs burn I got to live the dream of t1 shredder + inquisition off a bauble + mox, use bauble to see their top card was burn and shred it.

post board I ended up with a white leyline and infernal tutor in hand but no brutality, which is basically the worst case scenario, I wonder if tutors come out when leylines come in to ensure this doesn't happen? I also unfortunately only ran 3 brutality just due to card availability, I see why kanister is on 4 though, it's probably a necessity.

g2 + 3 I faced skred and merfolk, both were very easy 2-0s and leyline vs bauble wasn't particularly relevant in either match

g4 vs mardu not burn, I've faced this match before, really hoping it doesn't pick up in popularity as it's probably the most helpless I've ever felt playing lantern. It's on pyro, lingering souls, bedlam for creatures and then a slew of burn, discard, k comm, souls, looting. Sides into some amount of wear/tear, stony, and k comm. I lost both games quickly, as I have with my previously leyine build as well, so nothing indicative of a build difference just a distinct archetype disadvantage.

I tried to record the matches but something was wrong with my computer, probably for the better as I think I boarded incorrectly anyway. I'll try to fix it for tonight and run another league.

I am curious though, what are the various places people feel like they really like collective brutality? Leyline builds seem to be on 2/1, kanister is on 0/4, and I think that whir one posted yesterday was 3/0. I typically only like it vs burn or when I want extra discard like vs uw/ad nas/storm, I'm assuming some people like it to kill devoted druids or thalias or something?

Quote from Thursdayisgod »

I am curious though, what are the various places people feel like they really like collective brutality? Leyline builds seem to be on 2/1, kanister is on 0/4, and I think that whir one posted yesterday was 3/0. I typically only like it vs burn or when I want extra discard like vs uw/ad nas/storm, I'm assuming some people like it to kill devoted druids or thalias or something?

So Collective Brutality has applications in a lot of scenarios.

It is literally one of your best cards against Burn, as every mode is useful, and a fully escalated Brutality at nearly any point in the game is a massive swing in your favor (even early game draining for 2 matters).

Against Storm Brutality also has all of its modes active. You can kill a Goblin Electromancer, have them discard something, and draining for 2 makes them have to get a higher storm count to kill you.

Those are the two match ups where Brutality it as it's BEST.

In a lot of other games, I find that if you can find a good use for 2 of 3 modes, then it is worth not sideboarding it out. For example I keep them in against UW Control because the hand disruption is good, and you can kill off Snapcaster Mages.

If you find yourself only finding one mode on Brutality useful in a match up, it's probably best to board the card out for something better. A great example for me is Living End. Against that deck Brutality's only use is to have them discard things like Beast Within. You can't kill their creatures, and draining doesn't matter as if they're attacking you it's usually for lethal. In those cases I'd be making sure to take Brutalitys out for games 2 and 3

Has everyone seen Adrian Sullivan's decklist and gameplay footage from the SCG Invitational? I feel like his version is really well suited for the current metagame and he piloted it amazingly.. I just swapped the cards around and am anxious to play it in tomorrow's FNM

Kanister, why do you play Bauble over Leyline in the mainboard. I can see the argument around speed. But isn't the Leyline much better in the current metagame?

I am thining again about switching back to Lantern, but I find myself seeing different kind of builds.
With or without Crucible main. With or without Infernal Tutor.

I can see why you won't play the Brutality mainboard, How is your list nowadays?

Does anyone have any tips on how they evaluate a keepable hand if a leyline is in it? I've been keeping medium/risky (land light) hands and getting punished for it.

Oops, sorry about that kanister, I must have misread your board from the last goldfish post.

The board I ran was: 2 cage, 3 white leyline, 3 brutality, 2 needle, 2 jar, 1 seal, 1 grudge, 1 surgical

It was largely disappointing, I think I want grids in there somewhere, I'm not sure, I want something to help vs coco decks but I'm not confident grid is even that card. A while ago you mentioned how they have a highly unpredictable board and I am starting to feel that more and I think it will become a bigger issue as number of decklists posted gets reduced. I really wish there was a magus of humility. I've considered torper orb a bit since it can also turn off ptitan, tks, and various other things, but vs coco it would be for like... a singleton rec sage.

@momsie I think leyline md or not is more distinguishing since it indicates more flex choices. Leyline md means you will have brutality and not infernal while bauble is the opposite (and likely extra seize/inq). Crucible is a maybe in both builds though. Leyline md also means you'll have more colorful manabase and probably some creature suite sb while bauble builds will stick to jundy cards post-board.

@bloe g1 I often treat leyline as a replacement for a discard spell when evaluating hands, logic being that I want a discard to take their discard to protect my bridge in hand. Usually I require at least 2 of 4 different elements in a 7 card hand in the dark: discard or leyline, lantern, bridge, or stirrings + millrock. Post board it's a lot easier to evaluate, generally if white leyline is in the deck post-board it's probably highly effective and each matchup has it's own "elements" "can this hand beat chalice on 1? do I have an opal for blood moon? will I just die to devoted combo?"

New to the deck, Lets say you have a lantern and discard spell first turn, do you play lantern, or do you discard them first?? does this change depending what we have else in hand?

Is crucible a win more card? i understand that it can do ghost quarter loops and inventors fair loops, and even when its in the board, when do i bring it in? against ponza of course, but what else? it doesnt help establish our lock?

I ran Crucible for a while, but then put it side-by-side with Mechanized Production and realized that I simply liked Production more. I feel like Production does Crucible's job of giving Lantern additional utility, flexibility, and inevitability a lot better than Crucible does.