Report from five constructed 1v1 tournaments in a row online with my thopter + faithless looting deck. Won four out of the five, and would've won the fifth one too if I hadn't make some mistakes in game 3. >_<
Game 1: Had lantern and a mill rock but he dropped multiple 1-cmc goblins and a goblin grenade to finish the job before I could find a bridge. Didn't see any elements of the combo this game. Afterwards I sided out most of the combo, needles and put in leyline + artifact protection.
Game 2: He kept a hand with only one land and so couldn't dump his hand in time before I had two spellskites and the lantern combo in the field, with a pyroclasm in hand. He concedes after I start milling lands.
Game 3: Leyline, lantern, and bridge down won the game with me stabilized at 5 life.
Round 2: Naya Burn 1-2
Game 1: Conceded shortly into the game as I didn't have a viable hand against burn. Sided out needles, part of the combo, put in leyline + artifact protection.
Game 2: Put down two leylines from the opening hand, followed by a thopter foundry and lantern/shredder. Without bridge he used monastery swiftspear + boros charm and bolted himself to put out surprising amounts of damage, and I would've lost without killing my shredder to put out a thopter to block, leaving me stabilized at two life. Bridge came out next turn and I put it down, and I used buried ruin to recur the shredder the following turn. Milled out eidolon (Thank god) and artifact hate, and slowly caught life back up by using academy to recur artifacts for thopter foundry to sacrifice, which was a good thing since once I missed a molten rain that sent me down to 1 health. A few harrowing turns later sword showed up and he conceded. The combo really shone here, keeping me from death twice through blockers and a sliver of life, but it was a little annoying to have to kill my mill rocks to survive.
Game 3: This is the game where I goofed. I had a leyline and lantern and mill rock and bridge after stabilizing at 8 life from another swiftspear but I got a little too greedy when milling and let one destructive revelry through. I had a welding jar but he targeted leyline and had enough burn in hand to take me down.
Round 3: UW Control 2-0
Game 1: Saw the Hallowed Fountain come down, put out a pithing needle naming ghost quarter, then a thoughtseize discarding remand, then another needle naming Elspeth, Sun's Champion, which was fortunate since he drew it shortly afterwards. Then following turns saw lantern and the thopter combo go down along with his Jace, Architect of Thought. Fortunately he didn't draw anything useful with it before I killed him. Throughout all this he put down several restoration angels while I didn't have a bridge, but what I did have was the thopter combo and I churned out a dozen of them to block the angels and kill him. Sided out part of the combo and a mill rock and sided in enchantment destruction, skites, and defense grid
Game 2: Thoughtseized a wear/tear from his hand and put down defense grid, pretty much neutralizing his counterspells and letting me push through a bridge, lantern, and shredder. He concedes.
Round 4: Scapeshift 2-1
Game 1: Not much to say here. I had the lantern combo out but he had a Bring to Light in hand that he used to grab Scapeshift and kill me. I sided out my bridges and needles and put in leylines, skites, welding jar, and defense grid.
Game 2: Opened with thopter combo in hand and immediately dropped it with 3 mox opals, a welding jar, a lantern, and a land. He concedes.
Game 3: Thoughtseized Scapeshift and Remand out of his hand in the first two turns, followed by a defense grid that neutralized his cryptic commands. Dropped the lantern combo afterwards and we draw a few turns until I pick up a leyline, at which point he concedes.
Round 5: Affinity 2-0
Game 1: Not much to say here. Got down bridge and lantern early. He gets a signal pest down but concedes once I draw thopter foundry. Sided out most of the thopter combo and sided in grudge, pyroclasm, and artifact protection.
Game 2: Needling cranial plating turn 1 kept me alive as he pretty much dropped his entire hand in the first three turns. Had the lantern combo, but didn't have a bridge and would've lost had I not drawn a pyroclasm. After that it was a matter of milling away any creatures he drew, and the one inkmoth nexus he had couldn't kill me before I needled it too.
While admittedly I didn't face the decks that give us the most problems, I'm tentatively pleased with the performance of thopter foundry. While bridge and lantern carried the day in most of the games, thopter did play a role in keeping me alive in several of them, from picking up blockers and life from saccing mill rocks to outright winning once sword showed up. I didn't see any instances where the combo cluttered my hand, though in several practice rounds before this I used Faithless Looting to discard extra swords or foundries. I feel the combo is superior to most of what I replaced with it: 2 mainboard pyroclasms (Kept in my sideboard), 1 thoughtseize, 1 mishra's bauble, 2 Abrupt Decays (Here I'm not certain, as decay does have its uses against several troublesome decks), and a surgical extraction. I can't make a final judgement without facing Jund, Infect, and other T1 decks that give us grief.
Unfortunately Gutshot can't jump start a Sun Droplet as paying life is not counted as taking damage
i meant you could spend a red to shoot yourself. It's a really minor thing, like the argument for running pain lands, and it's also not something I think I saw mentioned that can be done with Aether Grid. Granted, one mana and one card to gain a life is generally a terrible ROI, but it's more of a bonus than a primary incentive.
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Unfortunately Gutshot can't jump start a Sun Droplet as paying life is not counted as taking damage
i meant you could spend a red to shoot yourself. It's a really minor thing, like the argument for running pain lands, and it's also not something I think I saw mentioned that can be done with Aether Grid. Granted, one mana and one card to gain a life is generally a terrible ROI, but it's more of a bonus than a primary incentive.
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Yeah that's true. I'm pretty sure we usually can, though. I mean, we have Ancient Stirrings and Abrupt Decay, and those are much harder to cast on curve.
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Just had a tournament this afternoon. Went 3-3 which I am pleased about because I made major changes, haven't played it in a while and last few tournaments I've been 1-5. If interested in the games let me know
Definitely interested!
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I really missed the consistency that this build offered, and i think i am going to stick with it for a while.
EDIT: By the way, Duskmantle, House of Shadow won me a game in the mirror, where all mill rocks, Lantern, and Academy Ruins had been pithed. I love that card.
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I still like it as an Alternate win-con and it has promise, but the more I tooled with it to work the more it felt like two separate decks. That coupled with the massive amount of Main board hate that destroys Thopter Foundry before you can get the ball rolling made me shelf it for now. Online is full of non-burn decks, and that is really the only match up I was finding myself wanting more Thopter. It's mighty powerful, but playing it vs Scavenging Ooze is just not worth it. A midrange Tezzeret deck would do better with it.
I took it out, and replaced it with some Serum Visions and a 2nd Surgical Extraction. I'm liking the Bug version of this deck, and have since cut nearly every red card in the 75.
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As a major supporter for the bug version, which red cards are you keeping in the 75? I'm only keeping 1 red card and that is aether grid
Slaughter Games. Might bring back Hide/Seek. I cut AetherGrid months ago as I wasn't having issues with creatures after turn 3-4(and if I was, it was a single creature so Dispatch was a better choice imo), though I still have it in my binder as a maybe. Wincon wise, my current version only wins through mill, helped out by Surgical Extraction and Nephalia Drownyard. Timing out might become a factor again for me, but meh we'll see.
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phew its been a rough couple of months for me. i have had trouble winning anything and it seems as if this deck just doesn't want me to have success. i chocked it up to misplays and good ol fashioned bad luck. i almost hit the big red button and traded away for the key pieces of an infect deck, but i decided to make some changes to the deck. so far i have been doing a bit better and feel like im getting some of my mojo back. i ordered the new additions in paper.
basically just made room for mishra's bauble and ashiok. the main problem i was having was getting good opening hands or the right draws. i kept getting too many lands or not enough. i like mishra for smoothing out draws. with a mill rock it digs through three cards. ashiok is good against control decks. they either answer it or they dont and they lose. against jund it can be good as well. besides that all i can say is that i am recommitted to this deck, and will stick with it through this jund/burn filled meta.
edit: took out ashiok for torpor orb, and pyrite for ghirapur. ill change the decklist to reflect this. overall i would say my mojo is back. won like five games in a row. lots of coco running around.
phew its been a rough couple of months for me. i have had trouble winning anything and it seems as if this deck just doesn't want me to have success. i chocked it up to misplays and good ol fashioned bad luck. i almost hit the big red button and traded away for the key pieces of an infect deck, but i decided to make some changes to the deck. so far i have been doing a bit better and feel like im getting some of my mojo back. i ordered the new additions in paper.
basically just made room for mishra's bauble and ashiok. the main problem i was having was getting good opening hands or the right draws. i kept getting too many lands or not enough. i like mishra for smoothing out draws. with a mill rock it digs through three cards. ashiok is good against control decks. they either answer it or they dont and they lose. against jund it can be good as well. besides that all i can say is that i am recommitted to this deck, and will stick with it through this jund/burn filled meta.
edit: took out ashiok for torpor orb, and pyrite for ghirapur. ill change the decklist to reflect this. overall i would say my mojo is back. won like five games in a row. lots of coco running around.
Burn match would be better if bauble was cut to move two skites mainboard, freeing up sideboard slots. I'd recommend welding jars to fill that space if Jund is big in your meta. Also, Droplet is more consistent against burn than Leyline is, given you're running welding jars.
k so whatever to the last post lol. here is my new list with 2 skites main and 2 baubles main. also leyline is applicable in more match ups than droplet so it's slots in and claims do the work of droplet with life gain or answers to eidolon. after testing extensively today i cant go back from 2 baubles. so many games i was able to activate opal on turn one or i was able to dig three deep and set up my hand. the card works in this deck. here is my new list which i am very excited about. my jund matchup has improved overall. actually had a jund player quit against me and no joke his hand was confidant, abrupt, grudge, kolaghan, huntmaster land land game 2. i took confidant with kozilek t1 and kolaghan t2 with thoughtseize. he left game a few turns after i stirrings for academy. won game 1 btw.
obviously i cut on discard to make room for baubles, but i feel the added acceleration of not only our draws but also getting hellbent is a benefit, i did cut one pyroclasm to make room for duress in the board against tron, control, storm, scapeshift etc. ghirapur is better than pyrite because it acts as another "threat" counterpart to bridge. also since we are running baubles, the draw effect from spellbomb isn't missed as much. i'm running noxious instead of tutor atm because i feel it is better in the opener but this could change, the fact that tutor can rummage through the entire deck is a plus but it can get stuck in your hand. my logic is that you don't always need tutor, but you can never go wrong casting noxious. ashiok is still in the testing stages. i like her versus bgx, grixis and any other grindy match up. she either eats a removal spell or eats our opponent. lastly i choose 3 leylines over sun droplet because you can also board them in against jund and scapeshift. also it generally takes 2 droplets or a host of other factors to stop burn. leyline is a one stop shop. you cast it t0 and it saves your life or eats removal, or (since we're runing 3) you see it midgame when you have established a lock and just need to survive the last bit of burn. still waiting on the cards to arrive in paper, but i will run a few mini's in the morning and report results.
edit: cards as in bauble's and ashiok. had to order baubles online couldn't find them around and i grab ashiok while i was at it. i have everything else in paper.
ok so i have been honing the list quite a bit and i am happy to report my satisfaction with the changes i have made. as i have stated i believe that mishra's bauble is a staple in the deck now. i have heard people refer to it as a 5/6 lantern, but i compare it more to ancient stirrings. with a mill rock it digs three deep and can accelerate metalcraft as well as hellbent. also i cut out all sun droplets for 3 leyline of sanctity this has been a major improvement in the burn match up as i have a better chance for turn 0 leyline or to see it midgame. the last addition was adding ashiok, nightmare weaver. i was on the fence about a singleton off color planeswalker in the board, but literally every time i cast this card, good things happen. so it can be difficult to know what match ups to bring him in, but i have noticed he excels in grindy match ups (bgx, grixis mid range). he basically just eats removal which is actually really good. he is a bomb against blue based control decks (temur scapeshift, grixis control, jeskai control), he is also useful against coco decks, and strangely zoo, since they rely heavily on creatures, an early ashiok must be dealt with and can usually eat up to 2 burn spells. granted these are all worst case scenarios, occasionally he just gets out of control and eats our opponent, so that's good to. lastly i went back to infernal tutor over noxious revival, it is just a more powerful card. also gruul scapeshift is popular right now, so i traded out my sea gate wreckage for ghost quarter.
overall i can truly say that my win percentage has improved greatly after making these changes. i had previously had a dismal month and felt that the deck might not have been viable in the meta. i have now changed my mind and will continue playing lantern control in preparation for gp dallas.
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
2 Ghoulcaller's Bell
2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
4 Mox Opal
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pithing Needle
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
Sorceries
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Faithless Looting
1 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Infernal Tutor
2 Surgical Extraction
Lands
4 Glimmervoid
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Yavimaya Coast
2 Academy Ruins
1 Duskmantle, House of Shadow
1 Buried Ruin
1 Mountain
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Torpor Orb
2 Pyroclasm
1 Welding Jar
2 Spellskite
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
2 Defense Grid
Round 1: 8-Whack 2-1
Game 1: Had lantern and a mill rock but he dropped multiple 1-cmc goblins and a goblin grenade to finish the job before I could find a bridge. Didn't see any elements of the combo this game. Afterwards I sided out most of the combo, needles and put in leyline + artifact protection.
Game 2: He kept a hand with only one land and so couldn't dump his hand in time before I had two spellskites and the lantern combo in the field, with a pyroclasm in hand. He concedes after I start milling lands.
Game 3: Leyline, lantern, and bridge down won the game with me stabilized at 5 life.
Round 2: Naya Burn 1-2
Game 1: Conceded shortly into the game as I didn't have a viable hand against burn. Sided out needles, part of the combo, put in leyline + artifact protection.
Game 2: Put down two leylines from the opening hand, followed by a thopter foundry and lantern/shredder. Without bridge he used monastery swiftspear + boros charm and bolted himself to put out surprising amounts of damage, and I would've lost without killing my shredder to put out a thopter to block, leaving me stabilized at two life. Bridge came out next turn and I put it down, and I used buried ruin to recur the shredder the following turn. Milled out eidolon (Thank god) and artifact hate, and slowly caught life back up by using academy to recur artifacts for thopter foundry to sacrifice, which was a good thing since once I missed a molten rain that sent me down to 1 health. A few harrowing turns later sword showed up and he conceded. The combo really shone here, keeping me from death twice through blockers and a sliver of life, but it was a little annoying to have to kill my mill rocks to survive.
Game 3: This is the game where I goofed. I had a leyline and lantern and mill rock and bridge after stabilizing at 8 life from another swiftspear but I got a little too greedy when milling and let one destructive revelry through. I had a welding jar but he targeted leyline and had enough burn in hand to take me down.
Round 3: UW Control 2-0
Game 1: Saw the Hallowed Fountain come down, put out a pithing needle naming ghost quarter, then a thoughtseize discarding remand, then another needle naming Elspeth, Sun's Champion, which was fortunate since he drew it shortly afterwards. Then following turns saw lantern and the thopter combo go down along with his Jace, Architect of Thought. Fortunately he didn't draw anything useful with it before I killed him. Throughout all this he put down several restoration angels while I didn't have a bridge, but what I did have was the thopter combo and I churned out a dozen of them to block the angels and kill him. Sided out part of the combo and a mill rock and sided in enchantment destruction, skites, and defense grid
Game 2: Thoughtseized a wear/tear from his hand and put down defense grid, pretty much neutralizing his counterspells and letting me push through a bridge, lantern, and shredder. He concedes.
Round 4: Scapeshift 2-1
Game 1: Not much to say here. I had the lantern combo out but he had a Bring to Light in hand that he used to grab Scapeshift and kill me. I sided out my bridges and needles and put in leylines, skites, welding jar, and defense grid.
Game 2: Opened with thopter combo in hand and immediately dropped it with 3 mox opals, a welding jar, a lantern, and a land. He concedes.
Game 3: Thoughtseized Scapeshift and Remand out of his hand in the first two turns, followed by a defense grid that neutralized his cryptic commands. Dropped the lantern combo afterwards and we draw a few turns until I pick up a leyline, at which point he concedes.
Round 5: Affinity 2-0
Game 1: Not much to say here. Got down bridge and lantern early. He gets a signal pest down but concedes once I draw thopter foundry. Sided out most of the thopter combo and sided in grudge, pyroclasm, and artifact protection.
Game 2: Needling cranial plating turn 1 kept me alive as he pretty much dropped his entire hand in the first three turns. Had the lantern combo, but didn't have a bridge and would've lost had I not drawn a pyroclasm. After that it was a matter of milling away any creatures he drew, and the one inkmoth nexus he had couldn't kill me before I needled it too.
While admittedly I didn't face the decks that give us the most problems, I'm tentatively pleased with the performance of thopter foundry. While bridge and lantern carried the day in most of the games, thopter did play a role in keeping me alive in several of them, from picking up blockers and life from saccing mill rocks to outright winning once sword showed up. I didn't see any instances where the combo cluttered my hand, though in several practice rounds before this I used Faithless Looting to discard extra swords or foundries. I feel the combo is superior to most of what I replaced with it: 2 mainboard pyroclasms (Kept in my sideboard), 1 thoughtseize, 1 mishra's bauble, 2 Abrupt Decays (Here I'm not certain, as decay does have its uses against several troublesome decks), and a surgical extraction. I can't make a final judgement without facing Jund, Infect, and other T1 decks that give us grief.
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Quiet Disrepair is better than Sun Droplet anyways.
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Definitely interested!
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Multiplayer Cube
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Codex Shredder
3 Ghoulcaller's Bell
2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Pithing Needle
Lands
3 Mox Opal
2 Academy Ruins
1 Copperline Gorge
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Glimmervoid
1 Duskmantle, House of Shadow
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Darksteel Citadel
3 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Ghirapur AEther Grid
1 Infernal Tutor
2 Pyroclasm
1 Spellskite
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Welding Jar
3 Quiet Disrepair
1 Extirpate
1 Pyroclasm
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Grafdigger's Cage
I really missed the consistency that this build offered, and i think i am going to stick with it for a while.
EDIT: By the way, Duskmantle, House of Shadow won me a game in the mirror, where all mill rocks, Lantern, and Academy Ruins had been pithed. I love that card.
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I took it out, and replaced it with some Serum Visions and a 2nd Surgical Extraction. I'm liking the Bug version of this deck, and have since cut nearly every red card in the 75.
u/Anon_Amarth - Fun as a zero sum game: If my opponent is having none of it, then by extension I must be having all of it.
Current Top Control Decklist
Cockatrice: Spage
Slaughter Games. Might bring back Hide/Seek. I cut AetherGrid months ago as I wasn't having issues with creatures after turn 3-4(and if I was, it was a single creature so Dispatch was a better choice imo), though I still have it in my binder as a maybe. Wincon wise, my current version only wins through mill, helped out by Surgical Extraction and Nephalia Drownyard. Timing out might become a factor again for me, but meh we'll see.
u/Anon_Amarth - Fun as a zero sum game: If my opponent is having none of it, then by extension I must be having all of it.
Current Top Control Decklist
Cockatrice: Spage
2 spellskite
spells: 41
2 mishra's bauble
4 mox opal
4 ancient stirrings
4 codex shredder
1 duress
2 ghoulcaller's bell
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 lantern of insight
3 pithing needle
2 pyxis of pandemonium
2 surgical extraction
3 thoughtseize
2 abrupt decay
1 infernal tutor
4 ensnaring bridge
1 ghirapur æther grid
2 academy ruins
2 blackcleave cliffs
1 forest
4 glimmervoid
1 grove of the burnwillows
4 llanowar wastes
2 sea gate wreckage
1 tendo ice bridge
1 welding jar
2 grafdigger's cage
2 nature's claim
1 pithing needle
2 surgical extraction
2 pyroclasm
1 torpor orb
3 leyline of sanctity
basically just made room for mishra's bauble and ashiok. the main problem i was having was getting good opening hands or the right draws. i kept getting too many lands or not enough. i like mishra for smoothing out draws. with a mill rock it digs through three cards. ashiok is good against control decks. they either answer it or they dont and they lose. against jund it can be good as well. besides that all i can say is that i am recommitted to this deck, and will stick with it through this jund/burn filled meta.
edit: took out ashiok for torpor orb, and pyrite for ghirapur. ill change the decklist to reflect this. overall i would say my mojo is back. won like five games in a row. lots of coco running around.
How's your burn matchup been?
2 spellskite
spells: 41
2 mishra's bauble
4 mox opal
4 ancient stirrings
4 codex shredder
2 ghoulcaller's bell
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 lantern of insight
1 noxious revival
3 pithing needle
2 pyxis of pandemonium
2 surgical extraction
3 thoughtseize
2 abrupt decay
4 ensnaring bridge
1 ghirapur æther grid
2 academy ruins
2 blackcleave cliffs
1 forest
4 glimmervoid
1 grove of the burnwillows
4 llanowar wastes
2 sea gate wreckage
1 tendo ice bridge
1 welding jar
1 duress
2 grafdigger's cage
2 nature's claim
1 pithing needle
2 surgical extraction
2 pyroclasm
1 ashiok, nightmare weaver
3 leyline of sanctity
obviously i cut on discard to make room for baubles, but i feel the added acceleration of not only our draws but also getting hellbent is a benefit, i did cut one pyroclasm to make room for duress in the board against tron, control, storm, scapeshift etc. ghirapur is better than pyrite because it acts as another "threat" counterpart to bridge. also since we are running baubles, the draw effect from spellbomb isn't missed as much. i'm running noxious instead of tutor atm because i feel it is better in the opener but this could change, the fact that tutor can rummage through the entire deck is a plus but it can get stuck in your hand. my logic is that you don't always need tutor, but you can never go wrong casting noxious. ashiok is still in the testing stages. i like her versus bgx, grixis and any other grindy match up. she either eats a removal spell or eats our opponent. lastly i choose 3 leylines over sun droplet because you can also board them in against jund and scapeshift. also it generally takes 2 droplets or a host of other factors to stop burn. leyline is a one stop shop. you cast it t0 and it saves your life or eats removal, or (since we're runing 3) you see it midgame when you have established a lock and just need to survive the last bit of burn. still waiting on the cards to arrive in paper, but i will run a few mini's in the morning and report results.
edit: cards as in bauble's and ashiok. had to order baubles online couldn't find them around and i grab ashiok while i was at it. i have everything else in paper.
here is the list
2 spellskite
spells: 41
2 mishra's bauble
4 mox opal
4 ancient stirrings
4 codex shredder
2 ghoulcaller's bell
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 lantern of insight
3 pithing needle
2 pyxis of pandemonium
2 surgical extraction
3 thoughtseize
2 abrupt decay
1 infernal tutor
4 ensnaring bridge
1 ghirapur æther grid
2 academy ruins
2 blackcleave cliffs
1 forest
2 ghost quarter
4 glimmervoid
1 grove of the burnwillows
4 llanowar wastes
1 tendo ice bridge
1 welding jar
1 duress
2 grafdigger's cage
2 nature's claim
1 pithing needle
2 surgical extraction
2 pyroclasm
1 ashiok, nightmare weaver
3 leyline of sanctity
overall i can truly say that my win percentage has improved greatly after making these changes. i had previously had a dismal month and felt that the deck might not have been viable in the meta. i have now changed my mind and will continue playing lantern control in preparation for gp dallas.