-Duskmantle, House of Shadow seems better than Sea Gate Wreckage. Sea Gate is used to find more Mill Rocks to assure the lock and close the game faster. Duskmantle is a mill rock per se, that is not affected by Stony Silence.
So this idea is a bit of a mess but I wanted your thoughts on it. It is evidently not really fleshed out.
The transmute is in order to find either thopter/sword, Aether Grid or bridge and are cards that you can get out of hand once you have bridge (ie. transmute and failing to find). Also allows finding Taigam's Scheming
I don't have 4 bridges because financial constraints, that said tutoring it up possibly allows a little more flexibility.
Bolt & Slagstorm are just for creatures and it's easy to ditch once bridge drops.
I'm kinda stuck on where to go from here and whether this is even a possible option.
Not sure if this has ever come up but with the thopter combo, how bad would 1 or 2 of Tezzeret agent of bolas be? The +1 is good for assembling either the lock or the sword combo and his -4 late game could just end the game. Only concern is his CMC might be too high
I only put a 1 of, of Tezzeret ..exactly because of his high CMC. You can sift through your deck fairly quick enough, to finally fetch him when needed.
-Duskmantle, House of Shadow seems better than Sea Gate Wreckage. Sea Gate is used to find more Mill Rocks to assure the lock and close the game faster. Duskmantle is a mill rock per se, that is not affected by Stony Silence.
I've got a Duskmantle sleeved while I slowly build the deck (slower every time there's an artifact spike). Wanting to get it in the 75 somewhere.
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so i've done extensive testing now with lantern foundry and i'm going back to the old build. i think the meta is good for us right now and there is no reason to delude our strategy for the combo. this deck pride's itself on having a low average cmc, many of the cards that inevitably have to be taken out are crucial to our strategy and have a 1 cmc. i'll be playing this build of lantern control at my next tournament on monday.
now that tron has been somewhat nutured and amulet bloom is not a thing i think we can take out g. quarter for sea gate wreckage. there is going to be a lot of blue decks running around so i think a way to generate card advantage is needed. everything else is pretty stock. i was not a huge fan of sea gate but after having several opponents concede after i played it i think it is worth it.
Guys, I'm brand new to this deck and am looking into buying the pieces to this deck. However, my fear is that if I don't draw Lantern of Insight in my opener or draw it early then the deck just loses... Is that an issue for this deck or am I missing something?
Guys, I'm brand new to this deck and am looking into buying the pieces to this deck. However, my fear is that if I don't draw Lantern of Insight in my opener or draw it early then the deck just loses... Is that an issue for this deck or am I missing something?
One of the cool things about lantern is how consistent it is considering the nature of it.
Step one: Proxy the deck you aim to be playing in the end and test it out.
Step two: Watch pros play the deck. (mtgcoverage is a great resource)
Step three: figure out your budget and stick to it. In my case, I'm not willing to afford more than the two bridges I already own so I am testing some cards that can tutor it up with some utility strapped on. It's the post 6 above yours if you're interested.
Step four: If step one, two and three go well, get the deck and have fun. :]
I play Dispatch for Platinum Angel, manlands, and bigger than 4 butt creatures. Game 2 I have more answers. I find Dispatch more useful than Aether Grid, specifically because of that situation and Ulamog. I would not play more than 1 though.Personal preference obviously
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Top Control: The only pure lockdown deck in Modern.
You don't even need to play Aether Grid to win through a Platinum Angel; a single Pyrite Spellbomb will suffice to kill it eventually - bomb upkeep, return it with Ruins, play it and bomb Angel again.
Same can be said of Pyroclasm + Codex Shredder, although it costs 3 extra. I personally think the grid is the more elegant solution as it doesn't require a combo, only eight artifacts of any kind, and it can also bring their life to zero while you find enough fuel.
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Can I ask a major question? I find that I end up with the mill win con most of the time and I end up running out of time in many of my matches which makes all the hard work moot. Do you have any recommendations for speeding up the game? I made the deck after a two year haiatus and did poorly in three casual tourneys and moved on to azban company. I feel like now that control decks are going to be top dog due to AV unban, lantern will have a really good matchup and I have a little more experience playing the deck so I won't suck quite as hard. I'm just worried that I could play great and and up going, 0-0-3 in a three round tourney due to time. Do you guys have any tips for speeding up the process?
Yes, this is an extremely slow deck, the slowest out there. This means it's all the more important to be lightning quick with your moves. You need to know what cards you can keep on top and what cards you can't afford to keep before they show up, requiring that you have an integral knowledge of your meta and what kinds of decks/cards you are going to see.
It's also important to know the capabilities of your own deck. You need to know what you can or cannot do in certain situations. At the same time, you need to be innovative. For example, it's nice to know that you have a built-in recursion engine in the form of Codex Shredder, Academy Ruins, seven mana sources, plus enough other mana sources to cast your card. However, it might not be immediately apparent that you can recur Surgical Extraction to remove additional cards from your opponent's library every turn. To this end, i highly suggest you diversify your card base. For example, we all know and love Seal of Primordium, but why not take one and replace it with Hide // Seek instead? It performs much the same functions as the Seal does, but lets you use it in other ways as well – for example, exiling the only copy of Keranos, God of Storms in an opposing URX deck (or tucking it when it's already resolved, something Seal can't do), which often times leads to a concession, even though you were going to mill it later on anyway. Also, it really helps to play a one-of Infernal Tutor in there. If you're looking to break stalled games, the tutor can fetch you whatever you need to end the stalemate.
Speaking of that, play as many alternate wincons as you can. I've switched over to the Lantern Foundry build like 90% of us on here have. The Foundry/SotM combo can not only keep you alive, but also outright wins games on its own. I've kept my one-of Ghirapur Æther Grid in addition to the Foundry combo, because not only does it close games faster with the combo live, but it can defend and win games on its own even without Ensnaring Bridge, just like the Foundry combo can. I've even taken this a step further and included a single Time Sieve in my sideboard, specifically against control matchups. If i can land this card in a grindy game and get the Foundry combo out, then i win.
Have you ever played an EDH game where that guy played Winter Orb into Frozen Æther into Luminarch Ascension? Remember how frustrating it was to wait a million turns for your lands to untap while you got pummeled by a couple angels? Well congratulations, you are now that guy – you should use it to your advantage. Players will often times concede when they see you've got the lock online or when you cast Ensnaring Bridge, and many will flip out after you force them to draw land after land after land (this is especially effective against fast or aggressive players). Putting people on tilt is an easy way to steal some games that you otherwise would have lost or stalled; go ahead and let them untap with their Natural State on top of their library, only to stop them on their upkeep and mill it away. Remind them who is in control of the game, and against some players, you will get a concession from them instead of going to time. Maybe this is a below-the-belt move, but hey, it works for me.
The issue I come accross is that no one seems to be conceding even when I have the lock. Oh well, I ordered my thopter swords and im hoping that variant will be quick enough or will convince people its over more quickly. I definitely want to get back into the deck but I think I will have to practice the new variant on cockatrice a bit
If you ever wanna play against me hit me up. I'm on Cockatrice too. I've got the mirror of course, and i am gonna be building a couple other decks too.
Still on the thopter/sword idea for now, and just had a thought. Since it runs blue more heavily, what about Reshape? The card has utility outside of the thopter/sword combo, and if we run one, it allows us to run a 3/2 split of thopter/sword, and be able to find the missing piece as a mid to late game wincon. For 1UU Reshape can be used to turn excess mill rocks into a lantern, excess lanterns into mill rocks, any of the above into needles, and obviously find a thopter or a sword for 2UU, and put it straight onto the battlefield. It's a bit costly but seems to open up a lot of plays. If we need it out of our hand we can go and find a mox opal for UU and the cost of another artifact. Post board it also lets us search out a welding jar for UU, for board stability. I'm going to test it as a 1 of with the 3/2 thopter/sword split.
It would compete for Infernal Tutor for its (flex) spot. I would test both and see which one feels better and come back with some results!
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Semi-retired Lantern Player. I try to get out to play every once in awhile!
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I gave my list a run and although it's a bit too high in cmc the transmute spells are working a treat for getting a bridge turn 4 (which since my budget only allowed two is good by my standards)
I stopped running the muddle the mixtures and dimir infiltrator main and put in faithless looting and gitaxian probe to lower curve but I am loving dimir machinaitons. Perplex also has it's perks.
Dimir Machinations allows us to psuedo-top either ourselves or our opponent pre-lantern or grabs bridge and can't be countered doing so.
Perplex is also solid but is less potential overall. If the card is important enough they will ditch their hand (which is usually only 3 or 4 cards by then). That said I have gone turn 3 bridge, turn 4 perplex a mill rock/lantern/bolt to discard hand for bridge.
The main issue I see with reshape is it's more important for the expensive stuff we are looking for than the cheap stuff which we usually find consistently because we run so many.
How's everyone's sideboards looking right now? I am going to a GPT this next weekend and will most likely be piloting the new (Lantern Foundry) version of the deck. So far this is what I'm thinking for my sideboard:
Grafdigger's Cage is for my local meta being annoying and having a LOT of r/g decks so I have to find a way around getting 2 for 1'd with Ancient Grudge. Not to mention this is just an added bonus to stop the chord/coco and graveyard based decks in my meta.
Nature's Claim is straight forward in use.
Pyroclasm feels good as a 2 of and I very rarely would up the count to 3. Most decks in my meta aren't super creature heavy, but for the ones that are, this is a great one to have to wipe the board clean.
Welding Jar is also straight forward in use.
Spellskite is in there for my Scapeshift and infect match ups. Also a good card just to protect stuff.
Hide // Seek for U/R decks where i'm going against Keranos. Also doubles as great tech against tron to make sure ulamog doesn't destroy me.
Ray of Revelation is a new include that I had seen mentioned previously and I really want to try out (plus i already have foils of them) because this deck tends to lose to good enchantments such as Stony Silence, Suppression Field, Rest in Peace, Leyline of Sanctity (sometimes), Blood Moon, and more. The flashback makes it a good late game card as well because I can use it early and flash it back when I really am in need of it.
Leyline of Sanctity is for my burn and scapeshift match up.
Æther Grid is for the decks that think I'm solely on the thopter plan. I don't mind if I have to go to the mill plan in order to win, but if they're dead-set on locking me out of thopters, then Æther Grid has potential to still close out the game very quickly.
Not sure if this is the right choices, but wouldn't mind input on what other people are using and such.
I haven't played competitive Modern since the Eldrazi breakout. I've read the deck had a decent match against Eldrazi but didn't bother sleeving it up as I was still reeling from a bad performance pre-Eldrazi. If you are losing even against Stompy Green then either you're a poor pilot, have a poor decklist or it's simply not your day. So I've stayed away and built a Tier 3 deck for fun, we'll fun for me at least. I tried to build it to combat Eldrazi but didn't complete it on time so I just played casually.
Now I think it's time to sleeve up the deck again but I'll still play casually. I just need a warm up then play competitively next month. I like the transformational(?) sideboard with Gifts Ungiven over the Sword/Thopter combo as I personally believe it puts more strain on the mana base. But that has to wait for a while as I won't have the budget for additional key pieces and would stick with the traditional list.
I too have experienced the drawish nature of the deck. Even if I have the lock the opponent won't concede. I don't know if this can still be consulted to a judge if the game can now be finished if the opponent has no way out or if the opponent can still say no knowing he/she has no way out and play out the game just to see your cards for strategy purposes. But I guess it's best just to be familiar with the deck so you can play faster as what like PV observed. I know Zac doesn't treat this a mill deck but let's face it, it's a mill deck and I'm going to test if a singleton Grindclock would work to win games faster.
Thanks for all the replies re Platinum Angel, beginning to see the problem with cutting red for Thopter, it think kanister suggested Pyrite Spellbomb, might move for Aether Spellbomb.
Re Reshape, my logic on it is that if you have any intention whatsoever of fetching a Bridge with it then Tezzeret the Seeker is a strict upgrade.
On Platinum Angel, I've included a single copy of Doom Blade in my thopter/sword version, and it won me a game against blue tron with platinum angel. Black removal is more efficient in getting rid of plat angel than red.
On Tezzeret the Seeker, I don't think it's correct to say he's strictly better than reshape, because you can't get him out your hand easily if you need to.
You don't need to be efficient or elegant at all, Platinum Angel is just another blank creature which you can let them draw because t doesn't really threaten you in any way, as long as you have any way to deal with it in your deck. I don't really know many Platinum Angel decks to begin with, but the deck most reasonably running it is some kind of Tron - pre-board, you have spellbombs in your deck, so it doesn't lock you out, you ignore it and deal with it eventually, without going out of your way; post-board, you shouldn't really have a Doom Blade in your deck against a Tron build, you probably have a disenchant effect or two, so the angel still doesnt really do anything. I don't exactly see where is the issue.
^Exactly. Platinum Angel is a non issue and Dedicating sideboard slots to "answer" Platinum Angel is a waste of sideboard space. As long as you're running Pyrite Spellbomb, nothing else is needed.
-Duskmantle, House of Shadow seems better than Sea Gate Wreckage. Sea Gate is used to find more Mill Rocks to assure the lock and close the game faster. Duskmantle is a mill rock per se, that is not affected by Stony Silence.
-Someone mentioned Warping Wail for Ancestral Vision. In a BUG manabase, Dimir Charm is better.
-Serum Visions is now a viable option to give extra consistency alongside Ancient Stirrings.
8 Mill Rocks
2 Thopter Foundry
2 Bridge
1 Sword
1 Aether Grid
4 Taigam's Scheming
1 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Dimir Machinations
2 Perplex
3 Muddle the Mixture
4 Duress
4 Bolt
19 Lands
So this idea is a bit of a mess but I wanted your thoughts on it. It is evidently not really fleshed out.
The transmute is in order to find either thopter/sword, Aether Grid or bridge and are cards that you can get out of hand once you have bridge (ie. transmute and failing to find). Also allows finding Taigam's Scheming
I don't have 4 bridges because financial constraints, that said tutoring it up possibly allows a little more flexibility.
Bolt & Slagstorm are just for creatures and it's easy to ditch once bridge drops.
I'm kinda stuck on where to go from here and whether this is even a possible option.
I only put a 1 of, of Tezzeret ..exactly because of his high CMC. You can sift through your deck fairly quick enough, to finally fetch him when needed.
I've got a Duskmantle sleeved while I slowly build the deck (slower every time there's an artifact spike). Wanting to get it in the 75 somewhere.
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4 mox opal
4 ancient stirrings
4 codex shredder
1 duress
4 ghoulcaller's bell
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 lantern of insight
3 pithing needle
1 pyrite spellbomb
1 pyxis of pandemonium
2 surgical extraction
2 thoughtseize
2 abrupt decay
1 infernal tutor
2 pyroclasm
4 ensnaring bridge
2 academy ruins
2 blackcleave cliffs
1 forest
4 glimmervoid
1 grove of the burnwillows
4 llanowar wastes
2 sea gate wreckage
1 tendo ice bridge
2 spellskite
2 welding jar
1 grafdigger's cage
1 nature's claim
1 pithing needle
2 surgical extraction
1 ancient grudge
1 pyroclasm
2 sun droplet
2 leyline of sanctity
now that tron has been somewhat nutured and amulet bloom is not a thing i think we can take out g. quarter for sea gate wreckage. there is going to be a lot of blue decks running around so i think a way to generate card advantage is needed. everything else is pretty stock. i was not a huge fan of sea gate but after having several opponents concede after i played it i think it is worth it.
One of the cool things about lantern is how consistent it is considering the nature of it.
Step one: Proxy the deck you aim to be playing in the end and test it out.
Step two: Watch pros play the deck. (mtgcoverage is a great resource)
Step three: figure out your budget and stick to it. In my case, I'm not willing to afford more than the two bridges I already own so I am testing some cards that can tutor it up with some utility strapped on. It's the post 6 above yours if you're interested.
Step four: If step one, two and three go well, get the deck and have fun. :]
u/Anon_Amarth - Fun as a zero sum game: If my opponent is having none of it, then by extension I must be having all of it.
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Cockatrice: Spage
Same can be said of Pyroclasm + Codex Shredder, although it costs 3 extra. I personally think the grid is the more elegant solution as it doesn't require a combo, only eight artifacts of any kind, and it can also bring their life to zero while you find enough fuel.
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same name in trice?
It would compete for Infernal Tutor for its (flex) spot. I would test both and see which one feels better and come back with some results!
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I stopped running the muddle the mixtures and dimir infiltrator main and put in faithless looting and gitaxian probe to lower curve but I am loving dimir machinaitons. Perplex also has it's perks.
Dimir Machinations allows us to psuedo-top either ourselves or our opponent pre-lantern or grabs bridge and can't be countered doing so.
Perplex is also solid but is less potential overall. If the card is important enough they will ditch their hand (which is usually only 3 or 4 cards by then). That said I have gone turn 3 bridge, turn 4 perplex a mill rock/lantern/bolt to discard hand for bridge.
The main issue I see with reshape is it's more important for the expensive stuff we are looking for than the cheap stuff which we usually find consistently because we run so many.
2 Nature's Claim
2 Pyroclasm
2 Welding Jar
1 Spellskite
1 Hide // Seek
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Ghirapur Æther Grid
Grafdigger's Cage is for my local meta being annoying and having a LOT of r/g decks so I have to find a way around getting 2 for 1'd with Ancient Grudge. Not to mention this is just an added bonus to stop the chord/coco and graveyard based decks in my meta.
Nature's Claim is straight forward in use.
Pyroclasm feels good as a 2 of and I very rarely would up the count to 3. Most decks in my meta aren't super creature heavy, but for the ones that are, this is a great one to have to wipe the board clean.
Welding Jar is also straight forward in use.
Spellskite is in there for my Scapeshift and infect match ups. Also a good card just to protect stuff.
Hide // Seek for U/R decks where i'm going against Keranos. Also doubles as great tech against tron to make sure ulamog doesn't destroy me.
Ray of Revelation is a new include that I had seen mentioned previously and I really want to try out (plus i already have foils of them) because this deck tends to lose to good enchantments such as Stony Silence, Suppression Field, Rest in Peace, Leyline of Sanctity (sometimes), Blood Moon, and more. The flashback makes it a good late game card as well because I can use it early and flash it back when I really am in need of it.
Leyline of Sanctity is for my burn and scapeshift match up.
Æther Grid is for the decks that think I'm solely on the thopter plan. I don't mind if I have to go to the mill plan in order to win, but if they're dead-set on locking me out of thopters, then Æther Grid has potential to still close out the game very quickly.
Not sure if this is the right choices, but wouldn't mind input on what other people are using and such.
FULL TIME FAERIES
Now I think it's time to sleeve up the deck again but I'll still play casually. I just need a warm up then play competitively next month. I like the transformational(?) sideboard with Gifts Ungiven over the Sword/Thopter combo as I personally believe it puts more strain on the mana base. But that has to wait for a while as I won't have the budget for additional key pieces and would stick with the traditional list.
I too have experienced the drawish nature of the deck. Even if I have the lock the opponent won't concede. I don't know if this can still be consulted to a judge if the game can now be finished if the opponent has no way out or if the opponent can still say no knowing he/she has no way out and play out the game just to see your cards for strategy purposes. But I guess it's best just to be familiar with the deck so you can play faster as what like PV observed. I know Zac doesn't treat this a mill deck but let's face it, it's a mill deck and I'm going to test if a singleton Grindclock would work to win games faster.
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^Exactly. Platinum Angel is a non issue and Dedicating sideboard slots to "answer" Platinum Angel is a waste of sideboard space. As long as you're running Pyrite Spellbomb, nothing else is needed.