Personally I don't like running Dismember against Twin that much. I rarely have more than a single one against them after side. When I side against twin I take out a mindslaver, an angel, a repeal and the three Talismans. In comes a single Dismember, 2 Spell Snare, 2 spell Pierce and another Wurmcoil. My gameplan is to just counter his pestermites, and force him to resolve them when I'm tapping out for Thirst or gifts at the end of his turn. That way I get openings to resolve big stuff, like Sundering titans to keep him off enough mana to kill me next turn with a Splinter Twin. Or have enough countermagic to stall the game.
This is pretty much the exact opposite of what I do. I leave in my repeals and board up to three dismembers, board in squelch and negate, and board out Sundering titan, trinket mage, chalice, Pithing needle.
Would you not keep Pithing Needle in? I mainly use it to name Deceiver Exarch so that the combo doesn't work unless it's a Pestermite.
Guys
did someone tests before some copy of Vapor Snag? What do you think about this card?
I'm trying to improve fast aggro and burn match up with 3 Snag 3 Repeal MB and 3 Dismember and 3 Chalice in SB
Hey all. Can't go into too much detail right now, though I perhaps can answer questions later if there is interest, but I managed to top8 Florida States with Blue Tron this weekend. I then proceeded to get nutdrawn by RG Tron twice in a row, through Chalice of the Void both times. C'est la vie...
Decklist is nothing fancy, similar to Shooktroopa's.
Hey all. Can't go into too much detail right now, though I perhaps can answer questions later if there is interest, but I managed to top8 Florida States with Blue Tron this weekend. I then proceeded to get nutdrawn by RG Tron twice in a row, through Chalice of the Void both times. C'est la vie...
Decklist is nothing fancy, similar to Shooktroopa's.
Hi Everyone I managed to top 8 a SCG CA event this past Sunday using cbgirardo's List. I don't have a lot of time for specifics, but here is a quick summary.
I didn't run Ugin in favor of fabricate, and I chose to use witchbane orb over Jester's Cap anticipating more Burn.
Round 1- U/W Tron. Deck used eggs and Krark-Clan Ironworks really through me for a loop. Lost to Spaghetti monster both games. (0-2)
Round 2 - Mirror Match. (2-0)
Round 3 - Twin (2-0)
Round 4 - Ad Nauseam- Chalice shut him off both games. (2-0)
round 5 - Tooth and Nail Ramp ( hard game but kept him off of ramp long enough to get coils on board.) (2-1)
Lost to twin in the top 8. I know I know ... it should have been easy. I got flooded game 3 (1-2)
Yeah, I got fairly lucky in pairings. The one game I dropped to twin was because I kept a hand with full tron, but no blue source, and didn't draw one in 4 turns so he just turn 4 twinned me. The boggles match is entirely decided by having an early chalice on 1, into an Angel or Wurmcoil. There was plenty of zoo, affinity, etc. in the room, just not at the top tables.
Personally I don't like running Dismember against Twin that much. I rarely have more than a single one against them after side. When I side against twin I take out a mindslaver, an angel, a repeal and the three Talismans. In comes a single Dismember, 2 Spell Snare, 2 spell Pierce and another Wurmcoil. My gameplan is to just counter his pestermites, and force him to resolve them when I'm tapping out for Thirst or gifts at the end of his turn. That way I get openings to resolve big stuff, like Sundering titans to keep him off enough mana to kill me next turn with a Splinter Twin. Or have enough countermagic to stall the game.
This is pretty much the exact opposite of what I do. I leave in my repeals and board up to three dismembers, board in squelch and negate, and board out Sundering titan, trinket mage, chalice, Pithing needle.
I think the discrepancy is because our lists are as different as can get while still both being close to the vanilla version of uTron. I'm running Signets and Gifts, to get early card draw and EOT action. While you've opted for running Silver-Bullet cards and more direct tutor effects. If you're on the silver bullet plan keeping in the Angel, and not going down on instant speed interaction after board makes sense. To my list the Angel can potentially be something that gets stuck in the hand against twin for a couple of critical turns while I continue my attrition game.
Aether Spellbomb
- shuts down Twin
- quasi Think Twice
- delays opponent, screws wih their tempo
- "OH, CRAP" button
- can be tutored with Trinked Mage
Have you tested it? How has it worked out for you?
Do you mean for this as a sideboard option, or main deck? I can see it in a sideboard if you're running a Trinket Mage package in the side.
But I'm having a hard time seeing it as a replacement for Repeal in the main. I know that spellbomb can draw a card if you choose to not bounce, but the fact that repeal bounces AND draws a card is pretty huge for us.
Would love to hear more from someone who's playtested it
I went against 8Rack for the first time today, and I very nearly quit after he turn 2'ed Smallpoxed me, then made me discard most of my hand, then played another pox on me...leaving me with just a single tron piece on board.
I was going to quit and then come ask here in these forums how in the heck we beat that deck.
Game 2 was much tougher. He stripped me of my hand within a couple of short turns and never gave me the time I needed to build up my mana and play anything of note.
Game 3 was a much slower game and I was lucky he didn't pox me early. I was able to hit my urzatron and drop a platinum angel...He dropped me down to somewhere around -100 life, but was never able to hit my angel...I had a solemn simulacrum so if he made me sac a creature I'd be able to sac that and not my angel, and the couple of times my solemn did die, I just brought it back to the top of my deck with Academy to play again.
And that's how I beat 8rack...lol it was all about platinum angel the 2 games I won They don't have a ton of card draw, and they will eventually run out of steam (or at least the person I played did).
Aether Spellbomb
- shuts down Twin
- quasi Think Twice
- delays opponent, screws wih their tempo
- "OH, CRAP" button
- can be tutored with Trinked Mage
I also tested it, but it's not what you want to see vs. most Decks.
It's a cantrip 3 out of 4 times, it delays your opp (maybe) also yourself (no cantrip when bouncing) and when you have Trinket Mage T3 you just don't want to tutor for a 1cmc cantrip.
I HATE TWIN. Aether Spellbomb is perfect for dealing with it. Put it down and you could care less if they EoT Exarch/Pest (Aether spellbomb's bounce ability doesn't require it to tap). When they try to resolve Twin, just bounce the Exarch/Pest and Twin will fizzle.
Twin will - against decks that run counterspells - combo out when they have 8-9 lands so they can protect it. That means counterwar.
Aether Spellbomb gets around that.
If you don't need it, you can still cycle it. I always end up with "spare" mana.
Bomb is great pretty much all the time. I always like to draw it, especially early game.
I realized that what I really need when playing UTron is TIME. Bomb delays delvers, tarmagoyfs, that gobin that storm plays, ...
Right now, I am experimenting with a playset. So far, it has been great.
I HATE TWIN. Aether Spellbomb is perfect for dealing with it. Put it down and you could care less if they EoT Exarch/Pest (Aether spellbomb's bounce ability doesn't require it to tap). When they try to resolve Twin, just bounce the Exarch/Pest and Twin will fizzle.
Twin will - against decks that run counterspells - combo out when they have 8-9 lands so they can protect it. That means counterwar.
Aether Spellbomb gets around that.
If you don't need it, you can still cycle it. I always end up with "spare" mana.
Bomb is great pretty much all the time. I always like to draw it, especially early game.
I realized that what I really need when playing UTron is TIME. Bomb delays delvers, tarmagoyfs, that gobin that storm plays, ...
Right now, I am experimenting with a playset. So far, it has been great.
Like twitch77 said...it's a matchup in our favor.
just don't tap out and get rid of there Dudes by countering them.
I tested for about 3 or 4 hours on friday last week vs. Twin and recognized what i've done wrong before.
It's just about playing the right way and finally you realize Spellbomb isn't needed indeed.
The fact that Aether Spellbomb doesn't cantrip is a pretty big deal. Generating card disadvantage for ourselves is unfavourable. Having to use blue mana to for an inferior bounce compared to repeal would be less blue mana for countermagic.
The matchup against Twin is something we shouldn't worry about if played correctly against. Aether Spellbomb is kinda insane against Twin at times but their combo shouldn't ever be assembled in the first place assuming our draws aren't horrible.
I went against 8Rack for the first time today, and I very nearly quit after he turn 2'ed Smallpoxed me, then made me discard most of my hand, then played another pox on me...leaving me with just a single tron piece on board.
I was going to quit and then come ask here in these forums how in the heck we beat that deck.
Game 2 was much tougher. He stripped me of my hand within a couple of short turns and never gave me the time I needed to build up my mana and play anything of note.
Game 3 was a much slower game and I was lucky he didn't pox me early. I was able to hit my urzatron and drop a platinum angel...He dropped me down to somewhere around -100 life, but was never able to hit my angel...I had a solemn simulacrum so if he made me sac a creature I'd be able to sac that and not my angel, and the couple of times my solemn did die, I just brought it back to the top of my deck with Academy to play again.
And that's how I beat 8rack...lol it was all about platinum angel the 2 games I won They don't have a ton of card draw, and they will eventually run out of steam (or at least the person I played did).
You figured out the "secret." 8rack is basically just about outlasting them, and that goes for both pox-less and pox-ful versions. Be patient, counter their rack effects if possible, and stick a threat. Easier said than done, sometimes, but it's a pretty slow deck that we have a ton of answers for. I always board in 2xChalice of the Void and Trinket Mage; CotV on one shuts off like a third of their deck, and a second one on two leaves them with next to nothing. Unless they're running the splash white variant Wurmcoil Engine is the shiznight against them. It's a very frustrating deck to play against, but all-in-all I'd say it's definitely a favorable matchup.
I've been running a semi-cbgirardo deck for a while. I found myself actually doing quite well against fast aggro like burn, infect, zoo, or affinity.
However, my worst nightmare comes to tempo-ish matchups.
(I'm not talking about online testing but competitive paper games here)
I have a bad record against UR/w tempo (bolt/snapcaster/electrolyze or tempo-style twin), BUR delve, and GBW/u collected company.
for those tempo decks with blue, I somehow always lost to counter battle because of lack of blue source.
for those black decks, I somehow always lost to hand disruption (ether thoughtseize or Tidehollow Sculler)
I feel I need a good hand or good card draw, combined with my opponent's bad luck to successfully land a sundering titan for the win.
My win relies on having right answers (like land, counters, or bounce) at the right time...big time
Any suggestion?
This is my second time having such a big frustration playing U-Tron.
The last time this forum helped a lot, I hope this time it does too.
Maybe move your trinket mage package to your sideboard.
Go back down to 24 lands but play 2 Talisman of dominance...I've tried playing without any talismans, but I miss having them.
Take out the batterskull for a second wurmcoil engine (I keep trying to do 1x batterskull/1x wurm, but I always end up going back to 2x wurm).
I also think it'd be nice if you had 1 more tutor...either another treasure mage, or fabricate, or have you ever tried gifts ungiven? I'm having a lot of fun with that card and it works well with your snapcaster mage.
And then a couple Solemn Simulacrums. There's some people here that are starting to dislike this guy...but I'm still very much so liking him in this deck. I don't tap out for him usually unless I'm desperate, but he's just such a great card in the mid game, and he works well against the kinds of mid-range decks you're having a difficult time with. He comes out and helps get you ahead with mana and then he provides a very good chump blocker...and occasionally he can get in quite a few hits on his own and be a bit of a threat.
This would further help smooth out your mana, and with the other changes would help your deck be less vulnerable to hand disruption (because you'd be running more tutors you can draw into for your threats).
I'd suggest cutting tolaria west and the second mindslaver for an island and an Ugin. Chalice on one is great against tempo decks, but it's pretty bad against collected company because they should be running abrupt decay and their mana costs are pretty varied, plus they can cheat dudes into play. Overall the lists with loxodon smiter are going to be much more difficult to beat.
Against ur tempo decks (I assume you mean delver?) chalice on one should be backbreaking. After that, resolving any threat should win the game. Remember that repeal for 0 hits flipped Delvers and you can do this after it flips but before they draw. Also remember that chalice on one stops you from repealing a flipped delver.
Against the delve decks, relic helps a little , chalice on one is still really good, and dismember is excellent. Repeal is a lot worse. Reality shift is an option against them, or vapor snag/echoing truth/aetherize.
I'd suggest cutting tolaria west and the second mindslaver for an island and an Ugin. Chalice on one is great against tempo decks, but it's pretty bad against collected company because they should be running abrupt decay and their mana costs are pretty varied, plus they can cheat dudes into play. Overall the lists with loxodon smiter are going to be much more difficult to beat.
Against ur tempo decks (I assume you mean delver?) chalice on one should be backbreaking. After that, resolving any threat should win the game. Remember that repeal for 0 hits flipped Delvers and you can do this after it flips but before they draw. Also remember that chalice on one stops you from repealing a flipped delver.
Against the delve decks, relic helps a little , chalice on one is still really good, and dismember is excellent. Repeal is a lot worse. Reality shift is an option against them, or vapor snag/echoing truth/aetherize.
My problem against tempo decks (either delver or snapcaster-style tempo control) is that I'm out tempoed...meaning they hold more counters or blue sources than me and can do more EOT tricks.
Play against any deck splashing blue, I always feel risky EOT thirst or something. and as a result, the snapcaster-style control always got me.
I'm still having second thoughts on Ugin because my problem is never about the big threats but no mana to cast them (or cast them with protection)
@twitch77, Solomon is a good card with no doubt but it's not solving any of my problem of being too slow and losing tempo. So is talisman. I've been there and I don't think I will want to go back anytime soon.
Also, Dismember MB is just too good in every aspect.
Would you not keep Pithing Needle in? I mainly use it to name Deceiver Exarch so that the combo doesn't work unless it's a Pestermite.
did someone tests before some copy of Vapor Snag? What do you think about this card?
I'm trying to improve fast aggro and burn match up with 3 Snag 3 Repeal MB and 3 Dismember and 3 Chalice in SB
Decklist is nothing fancy, similar to Shooktroopa's.
Matchups:
1: Bye : 1-0
2: UR Twin 2-1 : 2-0
3: Junk 1-2 : 2-1
4: UR Twin 2-0 : 3-1
5: Boggles 2-1 : 4-1
6: ID : 4-1-1
Top 8: RG Tron 1-2
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
Hey man, that's awesome! Congrats on the top 8 finish at a big event like that!
What does ID (#6) stand for?
I didn't run Ugin in favor of fabricate, and I chose to use witchbane orb over Jester's Cap anticipating more Burn.
Round 1- U/W Tron. Deck used eggs and Krark-Clan Ironworks really through me for a loop. Lost to Spaghetti monster both games. (0-2)
Round 2 - Mirror Match. (2-0)
Round 3 - Twin (2-0)
Round 4 - Ad Nauseam- Chalice shut him off both games. (2-0)
round 5 - Tooth and Nail Ramp ( hard game but kept him off of ramp long enough to get coils on board.) (2-1)
Lost to twin in the top 8. I know I know ... it should have been easy. I got flooded game 3 (1-2)
ID = Intentional Draw
I think the discrepancy is because our lists are as different as can get while still both being close to the vanilla version of uTron. I'm running Signets and Gifts, to get early card draw and EOT action. While you've opted for running Silver-Bullet cards and more direct tutor effects. If you're on the silver bullet plan keeping in the Angel, and not going down on instant speed interaction after board makes sense. To my list the Angel can potentially be something that gets stuck in the hand against twin for a couple of critical turns while I continue my attrition game.
- shuts down Twin
- quasi Think Twice
- delays opponent, screws wih their tempo
- "OH, CRAP" button
- can be tutored with Trinked Mage
Can be brought back with Academy Ruins as well.
Have you tested it? How has it worked out for you?
Do you mean for this as a sideboard option, or main deck? I can see it in a sideboard if you're running a Trinket Mage package in the side.
But I'm having a hard time seeing it as a replacement for Repeal in the main. I know that spellbomb can draw a card if you choose to not bounce, but the fact that repeal bounces AND draws a card is pretty huge for us.
Would love to hear more from someone who's playtested it
I was going to quit and then come ask here in these forums how in the heck we beat that deck.
And then he ran out of gas...meanwhile I drew into a Talisman Of Dominance and Solemn Simulacrum and was able to build up to 7 mana to cast platinum angel.
Game 2 was much tougher. He stripped me of my hand within a couple of short turns and never gave me the time I needed to build up my mana and play anything of note.
Game 3 was a much slower game and I was lucky he didn't pox me early. I was able to hit my urzatron and drop a platinum angel...He dropped me down to somewhere around -100 life, but was never able to hit my angel...I had a solemn simulacrum so if he made me sac a creature I'd be able to sac that and not my angel, and the couple of times my solemn did die, I just brought it back to the top of my deck with Academy to play again.
And that's how I beat 8rack...lol it was all about platinum angel the 2 games I won
I also tested it, but it's not what you want to see vs. most Decks.
It's a cantrip 3 out of 4 times, it delays your opp (maybe) also yourself (no cantrip when bouncing) and when you have Trinket Mage T3 you just don't want to tutor for a 1cmc cantrip.
Green @ it's best
Twin will - against decks that run counterspells - combo out when they have 8-9 lands so they can protect it. That means counterwar.
Aether Spellbomb gets around that.
If you don't need it, you can still cycle it. I always end up with "spare" mana.
Bomb is great pretty much all the time. I always like to draw it, especially early game.
I realized that what I really need when playing UTron is TIME. Bomb delays delvers, tarmagoyfs, that gobin that storm plays, ...
Right now, I am experimenting with a playset. So far, it has been great.
Like twitch77 said...it's a matchup in our favor.
just don't tap out and get rid of there Dudes by countering them.
I tested for about 3 or 4 hours on friday last week vs. Twin and recognized what i've done wrong before.
It's just about playing the right way and finally you realize Spellbomb isn't needed indeed.
Green @ it's best
The matchup against Twin is something we shouldn't worry about if played correctly against. Aether Spellbomb is kinda insane against Twin at times but their combo shouldn't ever be assembled in the first place assuming our draws aren't horrible.
You figured out the "secret." 8rack is basically just about outlasting them, and that goes for both pox-less and pox-ful versions. Be patient, counter their rack effects if possible, and stick a threat. Easier said than done, sometimes, but it's a pretty slow deck that we have a ton of answers for. I always board in 2xChalice of the Void and Trinket Mage; CotV on one shuts off like a third of their deck, and a second one on two leaves them with next to nothing. Unless they're running the splash white variant Wurmcoil Engine is the shiznight against them. It's a very frustrating deck to play against, but all-in-all I'd say it's definitely a favorable matchup.
However, my worst nightmare comes to tempo-ish matchups.
(I'm not talking about online testing but competitive paper games here)
I have a bad record against UR/w tempo (bolt/snapcaster/electrolyze or tempo-style twin), BUR delve, and GBW/u collected company.
for those tempo decks with blue, I somehow always lost to counter battle because of lack of blue source.
for those black decks, I somehow always lost to hand disruption (ether thoughtseize or Tidehollow Sculler)
I feel I need a good hand or good card draw, combined with my opponent's bad luck to successfully land a sundering titan for the win.
My win relies on having right answers (like land, counters, or bounce) at the right time...big time
Any suggestion?
This is my second time having such a big frustration playing U-Tron.
The last time this forum helped a lot, I hope this time it does too.
The following is my deck:
8 Island
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Tolaria West
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Tutors
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Fabricate
Threats
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Batterskull
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Angel
2 Mindslaver
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
Spell
4 Condescend
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Remand
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dismember
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Squelch
2 Negate
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Dismember
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 aetherize
1 Jester's Cap
1 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Witchbane Orb
Maybe move your trinket mage package to your sideboard.
Go back down to 24 lands but play 2 Talisman of dominance...I've tried playing without any talismans, but I miss having them.
Take out the batterskull for a second wurmcoil engine (I keep trying to do 1x batterskull/1x wurm, but I always end up going back to 2x wurm).
I also think it'd be nice if you had 1 more tutor...either another treasure mage, or fabricate, or have you ever tried gifts ungiven? I'm having a lot of fun with that card and it works well with your snapcaster mage.
And then a couple Solemn Simulacrums. There's some people here that are starting to dislike this guy...but I'm still very much so liking him in this deck. I don't tap out for him usually unless I'm desperate, but he's just such a great card in the mid game, and he works well against the kinds of mid-range decks you're having a difficult time with. He comes out and helps get you ahead with mana and then he provides a very good chump blocker...and occasionally he can get in quite a few hits on his own and be a bit of a threat.
-1x Trinket Mage
-1x Batterskull
-1x Chalice Of The Void
-1x Pithing Needle
-1x Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth or Tolaria West
+1x Solemn Simulacrum (I think he should be played as a 2 of, but am having a hard time finding room in your list for a second!)
+1x Wurmcoil Engine
+1x Gifts Ungiven
+2x Talisman Of Dominance
And if you do try gifts ungiven...
-1x Island
-1x Urborg, Tomb Of Yawgmoth or Tolaria West
+1x Snow-Covered Island
+1x Academy Ruins
These changes should hopefully help you smooth out your mana issues (the lack of blue sources).
How have you liked the 2x Dismembers in your main? I know a lot of people swear by them in the main...but you could possibly try
-2x Dismember
+1x Treasure Mage
+1x Solemn Simulacrum
This would further help smooth out your mana, and with the other changes would help your deck be less vulnerable to hand disruption (because you'd be running more tutors you can draw into for your threats).
Anyhow, just some thoughts.
Your deck would look like:
1x Snapcaster Mage
2x Treasure Mage
2x Solemn Simulacrum
2x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Platinum Angel
1x Sundering Titan
----Card Draw/Tutors (6):
4x Thirst For Knowledge
1x Fabricate
1x Gifts Ungiven
4x Remand
4x Condescend
----Bounce/Board Wipes (5):
3x Repeal
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Oblivion Stone
----Lock (2):
2x Mindslaver
----Mana Accel/Fixing (6):
4x Expedition Map
2x Talisman Of Dominance
--UrzaTron (12):
4x Urza's Tower
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Mine
--Utility Lands (4):
2x Academy Ruins
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
--Basics (8):
7x Island
1x Snow-Covered Island
Against ur tempo decks (I assume you mean delver?) chalice on one should be backbreaking. After that, resolving any threat should win the game. Remember that repeal for 0 hits flipped Delvers and you can do this after it flips but before they draw. Also remember that chalice on one stops you from repealing a flipped delver.
Against the delve decks, relic helps a little , chalice on one is still really good, and dismember is excellent. Repeal is a lot worse. Reality shift is an option against them, or vapor snag/echoing truth/aetherize.
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
My problem against tempo decks (either delver or snapcaster-style tempo control) is that I'm out tempoed...meaning they hold more counters or blue sources than me and can do more EOT tricks.
Play against any deck splashing blue, I always feel risky EOT thirst or something. and as a result, the snapcaster-style control always got me.
I'm still having second thoughts on Ugin because my problem is never about the big threats but no mana to cast them (or cast them with protection)
@twitch77, Solomon is a good card with no doubt but it's not solving any of my problem of being too slow and losing tempo. So is talisman. I've been there and I don't think I will want to go back anytime soon.
Also, Dismember MB is just too good in every aspect.