It's okay in these matchups. Dismember on a turn 1 Goblin Guide is a way to survive vs Burn (of course, it gets worse the more hits you take from that small efficient guy). It's also a way to survive a couple more turns against Affinity if you draw one early enough.
I see some people complaining about Dismember after a couple games where they draw it too late. Well, that will happen and it sucks in that context, but doesn't mean the card is bad. I'd go so far as to say it's a centrepiece in the SB of this deck, you just can't remove it and expect to perform well.
Dismember is really important in beating aggro matchups. Most of their creatures will do more than 4 damage to you over the course of their existence (and yours). Just do a little mental math before you cast it and count how many attacks the creature would be able to make before you stabilize and see if adds up to more than 4.
Tested an hour against (Tarmo) Twin yesterday and Dismember is vital to beating that matchup too. Many times, in order to progress your board state, Dismember ends up being your only out against Twin. Remand, Repeal, Condescend can often times be too expensive. You can leave up mana to cast those spells, but then you'll be doing too little and will die from the beatdown plan.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
Karn Liberated on turn 3 is game winning, by turn... 5 he's far too slow for the format. Batterskull is great, and I like it mainboard (many use a SB slot for it at least). The downside is it's not searchable with Treasure Mage. On that point, neither is Karn.
Never played against the UW variant, but RG is a much more forgiving deck, so you can win mostly through very tight play (or luck, if you're not as good at the deck, like me).
I would agree with the above and recommend batterskull and fabricate.
Win rates in my experience is about 65-35 vs RG Tron and 70-30 vs UW.
Just beat RG Tron 2-0 in the Daily. G1 I Quartered one of his Tron lands, played a Chalice on 1, and eventually when he had a lot of mana, Slavered him, looked through his deck with Eye of Ugin that he had just searched for, then untapped, played Trinket Mage, Pithing Needled the Eye, and locked him two turns later.
G2 I t3 Jester's Capped 3 of his Towers and t4 Ghost Quartered the one he had in play after my t1 Pithing Needle on the Map he had just played. That one was very onesided.
2-0 UR Storm r2. G1 I had two Tron pieces and Map, but no blue mana. When he went t2 Ascension on the draw, I went t3 Mindslaver, he took a turn and didn't put counters on Ascension so I couldn't win on his turn, I Slavered him and won on his turn. G2 I Rifted an Ascension that was about to get its second counter and played a Chalice on 2 for GG.
2-1 BW Tokens r3. I blind Needled Scalding Tarn, then Repealed it and named Pack Rat when I saw what he was on, but got overrun g1. G2 and 3 I won with Chalices on 1 and 2 and Platinum Angel.
2-0 Storm R4, Chalice of the Void won both games. 4-0 in matches, 8-1 in games.
I'd like to hear people's opinion on this: Is Ugin's nexus an improvement over mindslaver? Ugin's nexus + prototype portal + sac outlet = infinite turns. Is this combo good enough to justify turning our deck upside down?
Mindslaver is good on its own and Academy Ruins is good on its own. Ugin's Nexus is useless on its own and requires two other mostly useless cards. You're replacing two good cards for three bad cards.
So no, there is absolutely no reason to use Ugin's Nexus
Mindslaver often wins the game even without the combo. I've even had people just scoop to it. Ugin does nothing on its own, it needs a sac outlet. If you think Academy Ruins is useless, well, I kind of wonder if you ever played with the deck. Recurring Ostone, Wurmcoil, Simulacrum, even Expedition Map if you really need that final tronland.
Even if the combo was worth it, utron was never about speed to begin with. If you want to win asap with 7 mana, GRTron does that much better, much more consistently and doesn't require a 3-card combo of which 2 are useless on its own.
Ugin + Portal + Core is a 3-card combo. 2 of the pieces cannot be fetched unless you play Fabricate, which are at most a 2-of in builds that run it. Mindslaver + Ruins is a 2-card combo and both pieces can be fetched in a stock list (0 Fabricate). Besides, Mindslaver is far more disruptive against most opponents. If you are behind, an extra turn will probably not do much compared to using your opponent's cards in the most counterproductive way possible (for him). Combo just folds, and decks like Pod, Discard and anything running Liliana or burn will be set so far back you can take control of the game. You also have the opportunity to look at your opponent's Sideboard if you want.
And that is without mentioning that Phyrexia's Core is a subpar land to be playing in MonoU tron to begin with.
Ugin's Nexus real place is in Vintage Shops... But that's for another thread.
Batterskull can be searched by fabricate and many of us run more fabricates than treasure mage.
Ugin's Nexus is clearly terrible in this deck and there is no way to break an active slaver lock, how is the Ugin combo more fool proof?
Pact of Negation is one card that can break Slaver lock.
There are a few others as well that could break it when you can't play the cards legally on their turn.
Pact of Negation would only break the lock if you have zero other spells to cast, otherwise it actually wins you the game by forcing your opponent to not pay the upkeep cost. On top of that there are no decks in Modern that run pact apart from maybe some fringe gimmick combo deck.
Speaking of which, if you already admit you have to play UG to make Ugintron work and it has its own thread in deck creation, why do you persist on talking about it in the mono-utron thread?
I'm afraid not. The effect is too small unless you have ferocious, and if you have ferocious (Wurmcoil, Titan, whatever), you probably don't need that effect anyway.
I'm afraid not. The effect is too small unless you have ferocious, and if you have ferocious (Wurmcoil, Titan, whatever), you probably don't need that effect anyway.
Well, there *are* times when you play a Wurmcoil and you're just one turn away from stabilizing or it gets Snagged Pathed Grudged etc. The real question is if it's better than Aetherize; I think it is only if stopping 2 non-token creatures buys you an extra turn. The ferocious trigger cannot be relied upon but as I said, if you can lay a Wurmcoil / Titan with even 1U open to tap their highest power creature (which you can achieve starting T4), it might help getting back into the game, especially with creatures where Remand and Repeal don't really cut it (Goyf in primis). Given the horrible matchup aggro gives us, I think it's worth investigating.
Batterskull can be searched by fabricate and many of us run more fabricates than treasure mage.
Ugin's Nexus is clearly terrible in this deck and there is no way to break an active slaver lock, how is the Ugin combo more fool proof?
Pact of Negation is one card that can break Slaver lock.
There are a few others as well that could break it when you can't play the cards legally on their turn.
There is a *VERY* specific set of circumstances where Pact of Negation can break the lock, and even when it does it only stops it for one turn.
They have to
have no playable spells in their hand
have a pact of negation in hand OR have a pact of negation in the top N cards where N is their hand size minus 7
have 3UU available on their next upkeep after slaver
AND you have to have no playable instants.
Like I said, if that happens to play out and you get your slaver countered. They tap 3UU to pay for the pact on their upkeep and take their turn. Then you recur slaver on your turn to continue the lock.
I went 4-0 in a daily a few days ago. haven't been on much at all. 8-0 in games. Beat b/g/w, bg, storm, and burn i believe. Oboro is ran because it doesn't get hit by our own titan. It can give us double blue during our main phase if we are short on land. It's a lot cooler to search for oboro over a basic island. Choke does not hit oboro. If you are a true master of the deck you can squelch your own oboro activation to cycle a card whenever you deem necessary. The bounce to your hand ability helps v lilliana as well sometimes. I know i've bounced the land to save a wurmcoil a few times.
Isn't Minslaver essentially infinite turns? If you control conjectures every turn, its the same, except strictly better.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end... You will accede my every command.
How do you play if your opponent resolves a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir? it seems like a very hard spot to be in.
I see some people complaining about Dismember after a couple games where they draw it too late. Well, that will happen and it sucks in that context, but doesn't mean the card is bad. I'd go so far as to say it's a centrepiece in the SB of this deck, you just can't remove it and expect to perform well.
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Bant | U Tron | GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Scapeshift | UW Tron | UW Midrange
Batterskull is great, and I like it mainboard (many use a SB slot for it at least). The downside is it's not searchable with Treasure Mage. On that point, neither is Karn.
Never played against the UW variant, but RG is a much more forgiving deck, so you can win mostly through very tight play (or luck, if you're not as good at the deck, like me).
Win rates in my experience is about 65-35 vs RG Tron and 70-30 vs UW.
Just beat RG Tron 2-0 in the Daily. G1 I Quartered one of his Tron lands, played a Chalice on 1, and eventually when he had a lot of mana, Slavered him, looked through his deck with Eye of Ugin that he had just searched for, then untapped, played Trinket Mage, Pithing Needled the Eye, and locked him two turns later.
G2 I t3 Jester's Capped 3 of his Towers and t4 Ghost Quartered the one he had in play after my t1 Pithing Needle on the Map he had just played. That one was very onesided.
2-0 UR Storm r2. G1 I had two Tron pieces and Map, but no blue mana. When he went t2 Ascension on the draw, I went t3 Mindslaver, he took a turn and didn't put counters on Ascension so I couldn't win on his turn, I Slavered him and won on his turn. G2 I Rifted an Ascension that was about to get its second counter and played a Chalice on 2 for GG.
2-1 BW Tokens r3. I blind Needled Scalding Tarn, then Repealed it and named Pack Rat when I saw what he was on, but got overrun g1. G2 and 3 I won with Chalices on 1 and 2 and Platinum Angel.
2-0 Storm R4, Chalice of the Void won both games. 4-0 in matches, 8-1 in games.
List:
8 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
Artifacts: 12
4 Expedition Map
3 Talisman of Dominance
1 Batterskull
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Pithing Needle
2 Fabricate
Creatures: 7
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
Instants: 16
4 Condescend
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Remand
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Spell Burst
3 Dismember
2 Ætherize
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Squelch
1 Ætherspouts
1 Jester's Cap
1 Perilous Vault
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Witchbane Orb
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
Mindslaver is good on its own and Academy Ruins is good on its own. Ugin's Nexus is useless on its own and requires two other mostly useless cards. You're replacing two good cards for three bad cards.
So no, there is absolutely no reason to use Ugin's Nexus
Even if the combo was worth it, utron was never about speed to begin with. If you want to win asap with 7 mana, GRTron does that much better, much more consistently and doesn't require a 3-card combo of which 2 are useless on its own.
And that is without mentioning that Phyrexia's Core is a subpar land to be playing in MonoU tron to begin with.
Ugin's Nexus real place is in Vintage Shops... But that's for another thread.
Modern
Legacy
Ugin's Nexus is clearly terrible in this deck and there is no way to break an active slaver lock, how is the Ugin combo more fool proof?
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
Pact of Negation would only break the lock if you have zero other spells to cast, otherwise it actually wins you the game by forcing your opponent to not pay the upkeep cost. On top of that there are no decks in Modern that run pact apart from maybe some fringe gimmick combo deck.
Speaking of which, if you already admit you have to play UG to make Ugintron work and it has its own thread in deck creation, why do you persist on talking about it in the mono-utron thread?
I'm afraid not. The effect is too small unless you have ferocious, and if you have ferocious (Wurmcoil, Titan, whatever), you probably don't need that effect anyway.
Well, there *are* times when you play a Wurmcoil and you're just one turn away from stabilizing or it gets Snagged Pathed Grudged etc. The real question is if it's better than Aetherize; I think it is only if stopping 2 non-token creatures buys you an extra turn. The ferocious trigger cannot be relied upon but as I said, if you can lay a Wurmcoil / Titan with even 1U open to tap their highest power creature (which you can achieve starting T4), it might help getting back into the game, especially with creatures where Remand and Repeal don't really cut it (Goyf in primis). Given the horrible matchup aggro gives us, I think it's worth investigating.
Modern
Legacy
There is a *VERY* specific set of circumstances where Pact of Negation can break the lock, and even when it does it only stops it for one turn.
They have to
AND you have to have no playable instants.
Like I said, if that happens to play out and you get your slaver countered. They tap 3UU to pay for the pact on their upkeep and take their turn. Then you recur slaver on your turn to continue the lock.
Pact of Negation has probably never broken a Slaver lock. What other cards can't be cast on their turn that can break the lock?
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
I stream Modern events semi-regularly at http://www.twitch.tv/nezeru