So, I don't think there is a dedicated U Tron Discord. But I found a Tron Discord that has a general chat section for U Tron. Or if you all would like I can make a discord for specifically U Tron.
I dont want to post an invite link to the normal tron discord because I can only get an invite link that lasts 24 hours and that won't do much good.
But if people would be up for a specific mono u tron discord I can get it started.
Man it really sucks that this site shuts down. Maybe i'm a little old, but i feel that a forum is perfect for this kind of content, since we can check it out every other day, read new info and eventually reply to the thread.
FWIK (correct me if i'm wrong) Discord is more like a chat, if so it looks less useful to me
So, I don't think there is a dedicated U Tron Discord. But I found a Tron Discord that has a general chat section for U Tron. Or if you all would like I can make a discord for specifically U Tron.
I dont want to post an invite link to the normal tron discord because I can only get an invite link that lasts 24 hours and that won't do much good.
But if people would be up for a specific mono u tron discord I can get it started.
I'm not a really good player at all, but I used to play Mono U Tron a while back (using shoktroopas' list as a base), and could do 4-1 consistently and 5-0 twice.
Time has passed and I was playing merfolk but after the Karn hype I decided to go back and give it a try.
So far the results are terrible (something like 3-8). It feels somehow clunky and the lattice combo is freakin' hard to assemble given the amount of disruption and/or creatures on the opponent's side.
So.. do you guys think that maybe I'm doing smething wrong or maybe the "classic" version is actually better?
I am a long time UTron player,
since the appearence of Karn, I am realy excited...
I think the list from Shook is likely the logical evolution of the deck - means reducing high costs and introducing cards from side.
the list I am trying is moreless the one from Shok (more repeals, more Talismans, 1 snap, full Karns, B. Zone, no Dismemeber, etc):
but I am playing a full Karn and full dedicated artifacts in side. It is not good but I want to find out how good is Karn in the deck.
just a few questions mainly for Shok if he is by there (sure or others):
a) Why using the Trini in Side, I don't think it has any use and the same purpose is Chalice in side. If yes, please let me know reasons.
b) Why Revoker instead of Spyglass or Needle? likely for those WG Vizier?
c) me and a friend are evaluating the need of Oboro right now - we've included Blast Zone and also T. Edge thus reducing the blue land count and added the 3rd Talisman instead of 2nd Snap. and now that we don't play Mages we don't see much of as a need for the Oboro. Agree?
d) Why Leyline instead of more Tormods/Cage and Relic?
e) Definately No O. Stone in Side? me and a friend think it is one of the cards more frequesntly search for. (I think the most ones are Crucible, Lattice, Ballista and OStone)
f) definately thinking in 2nd Gemstone, bt not sure what to take out...
Thanks in advance, I personally agree mosts of the times with Shoks Lists/changes and his reasonings.
@syunikiso, with new Karn we are in a unexplored territory, you'll likely do better results with old lists if you are used to. I can guarranty that in short term I'll not do good results because of this, but definately Karn is something good for the deck. I am not ccmpletely sure and the fact that reduces our so comprissed side is something I don't like in a deck like tron. I for example am trying a full artifacts side - which is wrong - but I want to see the behaviour of karn and if it is worth its inclusion and at the same time reducing the side. In Legacy in TES I can say 7 slots for Burning Wish worths. But no idea in UTron...
anyway, I always take UTron as a deck I just like to play and never expect to do great results, sometimes I do, but sometimes I just loose miserably (because of *****ty Burn...)
EDIT: I've been thinking in Ensnaring Birdge + Bottled Cloister in side... but not sure if this is ok... by the moment lets see how S.Arbiter works... any idea?
Yo yo yo . Shok here. Trinisphere in the side is good against Phoenix decks. Storm. If you get to 7 mana Karn plus 3ball is a good little roadblock. Hits and stalls more than Chalice.
Revoker is in their for all the random useless planeswalkers. It having wheels and turns sideways is the plus side over spyglass or needle.
Leylines just win games. Blatantly steal and end games on the spot.
I don’t see how bridge and cloister can be playable. It’s not. Abort that.
The sideboard can have anything you want in there really. I tried to use targets that gave me the option to remove things from the board quickly(e.e. And ballista). Cards that can stall when I have clear board .(cotv, 3ball, revoker actually is a blocker quite often. ) and then win conditions when we have ample mana. Everything in the sideboard should be cheap cmcs. Is it right? I don’t know .
With the release of modern horizons here is the list I have been playing. I did not like Karn, the Great Creator, and have decided to part with him. I could be just flat wrong and he is likely the best route for the deck but I have been doing just fine with out him.
This is a list I play in paper. My current LGS does not have any Hogaak and is just a pile of Midrange and Combo. I probably do not need the spatial contortions but there is always the rogue humans player that I need them for.
If I was playing my list on MTGO or at a large paper event, I would likely change the sideboard to:
My main reason for not having the Leylines in my current deck is that I just don't own any in paper and don't have the funds to acquire them.
Force of Negation has been insane for me. I have won several games off of my opponents not expecting it, or not being able to play around 2-3+ counterspells in a turn.
A lack of Chalice of the Void, I currently do not own any but I feel that they aren't always necessary for us to win games. When they are relevant and we have them on a meaningful turn, they always feel amazing. But aside from that they feel horrid. In a Great Creator build I would certainly have chalices, as you are sacrificing some of your defensive spells to be more all in on that wincon.
In case someone is interested, I meddled a little bit with the archetype as of late.
I also hate what Karn does for this deck. Playing sorcery speed threats that do nothing the turn they come into play is simply bad. Force of Negation, on the other hand, may be one of the last few reasons to play Blue Tron instead of its brothers. I seriously like what this card does, given we can also pitch useless Condescends to it when we’re not into Tron mode. But we need to up the Blue Count.
I play this deck more and more like a Control that has Big Mana advantages. In the current meta mono blue is fine on its own as a Control shell, cause several Hyper aggressive strategies nowadays mostly focus on few pivotal creatures (such as Thing in the Ice and Arclight Phoenix), while we can deal with swarms thanks to Blast Zone and Walking Ballista. Blast Zone singlehandedly made the Humans match-up much better than it once was, cause it’s very often an actual wrath on turn four even if we have to look for it (Map turn one, sad turn two, charge it turn three, kaboom turn four).
Mindslaver it’s still an hell of a card, but... either it isn’t very effective in a metagame dominated by Surgical Extraction, and it’s too slow in an environment well prepared to face Tron decks. We can now play the Draw Go game much better than before, and Blast Zone actually helps in the Control matchup too, dealing with annoying walkers.
Would like to play second Negate in the sideboard, but slots are what they are.
How has echoing truth been for you? Its something I've always wanted to try and I see it in your Cyclonic rift slot. Additionally how has 4 Force been? I'm currently at 2 and probably want to go up to 3.
How has echoing truth been for you? Its something I've always wanted to try and I see it in your Cyclonic rift slot. Additionally how has 4 Force been? I'm currently at 2 and probably want to go up to 3.
It’s less of a Tron card and more of a non-Tron mode card. You ideally want to cast it while you’re advancing in your gameplan in the first few turns, and it solves problems such as multiple Arclight Phoenix on the battlefield or an horde of Zombie Tokens. Truth be told, I’m also considering an Unsubstantiate in place of the fourth Repeal or the third Remand for similar reasons (being cheaper and hitting almost everything immediately).
4 Force is a mainstay. This deck is so slow that the card disadvantage is worth it, and it improves so many turns in the early game, even vs strategies which shouldn’t be weak to it (example: Infect’s pump spells, Affinity’s Scales and Stirrings, Shadow’s Denial on our bounce spells, etcetera).
Hey guys, long time lurker here - finally posting because I have embraced the latest iteration of our lord and saviour Karn and wanted to spread his gospel.
Wanted to say a big thanks to all the previous posters who have discussed and developed the deck over the years, truly a great community has formed around our love for best tron.
@BloodyRabbit_01 I have been a big fan of your posts, I loved and fully embraced your innovation of maxing out on dismembers and ballistae to great success. However, after reading your analysis of Karn GC I have to disagree with you. To expand on why, I have laid out my thoughts on Karn's unique strengths/advantages below:
Firstly, he gives us the toolbox that was previously only achievable using the sub-par treasure and trinket mages or fabricate. Having to dedicate cards to your sideboard gives both positives and negatives, however overall in my meta not being able to switch to non-artifact sideboard tech G2 hasn’t negatively affected me as much as grabbing sideboard cards game 1 has positively.
It is also worth mentioning that this effect is also potentially repeatable should Karn survive, which leads me onto my second point.
Opponents have to respect the ability of Karn to be game-ending. An example of this could be, playing him turn 4 off 2 separate tron pieces and 2 islands, which wouldn’t be a threatening play with any other 4 drop we would potentially play (TKS, Solemn). Given the chance that on the following turn you could play the third tron piece, minus for lattice and essentially win the game on the spot. Although this line does revolve around you top-decking the final tron piece needed which is quite unlikely, I often find many opponents thinking “what is the worst possible outcome for me?” when deciding whether to attack Karn or me.
Finally the versatility of the cards Karn is available to fetch for in modern is incredible, as Shok mentioned a few pages back, you can essentially grab any kind of card needed (disruption, interaction or game enders). I have even taken to running a dampening sphere in the side (due to local meta full of our green cousins).
I would love for you to expand on your points a little more and continue this discussion – I’m not able to post my list right now but will do later when I get home.
On your inclusion of force of negation: It sounds super interesting, I can certainly see it being a lifesaver. However my concern is that it pushes us further into blue and "bad UW control" rather than into the niche space between control and big mana that we currently sit in - I will definitely be trying it out as a 1-2 of and see how I feel about it.
@BloodyRabbit_01 I have been a big fan of your posts, I loved and fully embraced your innovation of maxing out on dismembers and ballistae to great success. However, after reading your analysis of Karn GC I have to disagree with you. To expand on why, I have laid out my thoughts on Karn's unique strengths/advantages
Thank you for your appreciation.
Regarding Karn: I’m not pretending this card never existed, I simply have few time to test this deck while taking care of my exams and testing different strategies. So, I stick to what I know it works.
That said, implementing Karn in the previous build isn’t that difficult. You can just trim one Snapcaster Mage, one Ugin and one Wurmcoil in order to make space for it. I was actually considering this change. It sucks to eat sideboard space, but it may be worth it in order to provide a game ending threat for the right matchup (I was considering Chalice of the Void, Mindslaver, Wurmcoil Engine and Mycosynth Lattice, other than utility cards such as another Walking Ballista or Oblivion Stone, Crucible of Worlds and something for the graveyard. But, see? How many cards left in the sideboard?
Force of Negation has been bonkers in my (limited) testing. There is no reason not to run the full set, imho. I already explained the reasons before, and it’s basically the only cards with whom we can interact with the opponent on turn zero/one. Or WHILE we are fetching with Map, WHILE we are bouncing a one drop, and so on. It gives the deck the consistency it needs.
I have to side with bloody here. Most of the time our deck wins if the game goes past turn 4. Our main struggle is actually getting to that point. Having a free interaction spell, while we can still advance our game is the crucial thing we needed. Force is easily the best card in our deck now. With Hogaak and decks trying to race it, having that early interaction is basically needed for us to survive.
Karn, the Great Creator obviously feels powerful when he does his thing. however sometimes you can cast him and just die. Maybe my wish board was wrong or not strong enough. Karn never won me games that a wurmcoil, mindslaver or even a walking ballista would have in the same position. So with that, I decided to cut him from the list. The tool box strategy I've found to be ineffective for a while now, I cut the tutors over a year ago and haven't looked back. Getting them from the sideboard is nice but I felt it was often times too slow. Sure a Turn 3 tron into Karn + Trinisphere or ensnaring bridge or chalice of the void on one is nice but that is a "perfect" sequence of 4 cards with your opponent having zero interaction.
Perhaps my initial idea of going hard control with Karn GC as our finisher is the right build for him. I've found hard control to be a better game plan for us over being a medium big mana midrange deck.
Perhaps my initial idea of going hard control with Karn GC as our finisher is the right build for him. I've found hard control to be a better game plan for us over being a medium big mana midrange deck.
Same conclusion I came to. Instead of running lots of utilities in the board, we could just make the space for threats, while running more permission and removals in the main. Which would mean:
Where Relic of Progenitus also act as a cantrip fetchable by Karn when you”re short on targets. I would definitely run a sixth piece of Grave hate while Hogaak is still legal, probably instead of the Ghost Quarter.
Thanks for you replies and input @BloodyRabbit_01 and @SwissRolls, I am still sold on GC but could be bias, more testing is needed from my side. I thought I would do a little write up of the FNM I 4-0’d at last week as well as post my list.
Round 1 vs Dredge, 2-0
Game 1 I’m on the draw. After a mull to 6, I keep a hand with a mine, island, map, remand, condescend and Karn GC and scry a 2nd island to the bottom.
He leads off with gemstone mine into a shriekhorn and mills a land and loam. I play mine->map and pass back. He dredges back his loam then mills with the horn netting him a narcomoeba and amalgam on end step, then plays a second shriekhorn but no second land. I untap and draw into a repeal, play the island and pass holding up remand. He mills in my 2nd main and finds a creeping chill to put me to 17, next turn he takes a natural draw and manages to find a second land – casts the loam in hand (removing the last counter from gemstone mine) which I quickly remand and draw into a powerplant. The rest of the game goes smoothly for me as his clock is too slow to race natural tron with karn getting cage and wurmcoil for the win.
I bring in the 2 spell pierce and 2 relics and side out the talismans and chalices, my opponent seems to bring in about a thousand cards. I have a pretty bland hand with only 2 non-tron lands, a spell pierce, ugin, remand and a pair of thirsts, but keep because I can turn 0 spell pierce with a gemstone caverns so I keep and pray to the Karnfather that I draw more lands. I exile one of the thirsts for the caverns and pierce a turn 1 looting, much to my opponents dismay. The next few turns consist of my being blessed by the top of my deck and my opponent milling/dredging all his over-sideboard tech (x4 alpine moons, x2 natures claims and a couple of ancient grudges). The game ends when I overload cyclonic rift and follow it up with an ugin.
Round 2 vs Artifact Burn? 2-1
My opponent is a local who I know quite well, I also know that he loves dredge – thankfully he is playing something a bit janky this week so I don’t have to play dredge twice in a row. I’m on the play and lead with power plant->map, he follows up with a mountain into bomat courier and chips in for 1. Turn two I land a tower and play chalice for 1, thinking he is on burn – he follows up by playing a darksteel citadel, mox opal, cranial plating and equipping to the bomat – ouch. Fortunately I draw into a ballista and fetch for the mine to play it on 2 and shoot down the bomat. My opponent struggles to finish me and reveals his hand with x3 galvanic blasts before scooping to karn+lattice locking him out of the game.
For game 2 I once again bring in the spell pierces and take out the talismans. I keep what I think is a strong hand with natural tron+karn, unfortunately I then get blown apart on turn 3 by 2 shrapnel blasts.
Game 3 I snap keep a god hand of 2 tron pieces, island, pierce, x2 condescend, karn, ballista, pierce on a mox opal slows his explosiveness and the condescends keep him from committing too much to the board. He ends up with a mox, an unequipped cranial plating and an ornithopter vs karn and ensnaring bridge in play, he spends a long time debating what he should sac and what he should target with a shrapnel blast – eventually deciding to shoot down karn saccing his ornithopter. This blasphemy is punished as our lord and saviour is reborn from the top of the deck.
Round 3 vs Traditional Affinity 2-0
Blessed Karn is a house both games, one sided stony silence is good against affinity – who knew. Game one he isn’t able to flood the board too hard and repeals keep him from doing too much damage before karn locks his key pieces from doing anything.
I don’t sideboard anything game two I lead with repeal on a mox opal and play a chalice for 0 to keeps him honest for a while before it gets smashed to smithereens. A few turns later I cast a karn and in response he floats red with a mox opal – signalling galvanic blast. I uptick to keep him alive as a stony silence and next turn he has to use a second galv blast to finish him off. My opponent has committed too much damage to the first karn and isn’t able to kill me before I draw a second and tutor a lattice for the win. Praise be to Karn and his delicious lettuce.
Round 4 vs Hogaak Bridgevine 2-1
It’s the new hotness, it’s 3-0 after just beating G tron and I have little experience playing against it – but with faith in the Karnfather anything is possible.
I’m on the draw but lead off with a gemstone caverns turn 0, he plays a faithless looting and discards a vengevine and a bloodghast. I land a tower into talisman and map. Next turn he plays a second land to trigger bloodghast and follows up with two stitchers supplier’s getting two bridge from below in the yard. I play a second tron piece and slam down almighty Karn (Turn 2!), pull a ballista from the sideboard and play it for 0 to exile the bridges. His next turn consists of playing a bunch of small dudes to bring back vengevine, which in turn he uses to convoke out a hogaak. I minus Karn for an ensnaring bridge and leave up condescend and repeal. Next turn he drops an altar which I condescend and scry the final tron piece to the top. I get hit for a lot but next assemble tron and land ugin to -7 to exile his board (including hogaak), from there I counter everything he plays and bounce a few bloodghasts until I draw into a wurmcoil and stabilise.
Game 2 I keep a hand with natural tron, a talisman and ugin with the plan of getting him out turn 3. Unfortunately he drops a thalia turn 2 and delays that plan, I lose without playing a single spell on turn 3 – deck’s busted.
Final game, I’m on the play which helps a LOT in this matchup (and most matchups tbf). I play mine into map, he evokes an ingot chewer to destroy it. This feels pretty good as I have the follow up chalice on 1 for turn 2, he struggles to play through this the entire game and I win with a mindslaver lock gifted to me by the great creator himself.
Some takeaways:
Karn GC was really impressive, a game winner against both the artifact decks I played and really useful in getting sideboard tech game 1 against the graveyard strategies.
Gemstone caverns really overperformed, I got quite lucky and saw them often when I needed to. These really helped against the unfair decks where having the extra land is necessary to keep up.
Talismans were surprisingly good, I usually hate these cards as they are often don’t have enough impact. But by having stronger, more impactful 4 drops (karn and karn), setting this up on turn 2 is now a more reasonable line to take.
Many of the sideboard cards, such as trinisphere and crucible, were never used and I am uncertain about running both mindslaver and lattice in the side – maybe this is overkill and it would be better to include some removal or extra non-artifact hate.
First of all, I went 4-0 in a small local tourney of 12 people! Mostly I think I just got lucky with a lot of turn 3-4 tron, while dodging bad matchups. I can type up a tournament report if anyone wants it, here is the list I played:
Anyways, it seems like the discussion here has diminished lately, is there some other place that people are talking about U Tron?
Also, I have noticed to no one has taken over the primer on the new mtgnexus site, linked here, I would do it but I don't think I'm experienced enough with the deck.
Congrats on the 4-0. I totally forgot about the switch over to mtgnexus so I didn't even know that site was going. I know a lot of us are just testing whether or not Karn, the Great Creator and Force of Negation are good in the deck as of late.
I probably could write it but I feel like Shok, Trellon, Pie or Bloody should write it. Perhaps in collaboration since they all have pretty distinct builds.
I dont want to post an invite link to the normal tron discord because I can only get an invite link that lasts 24 hours and that won't do much good.
But if people would be up for a specific mono u tron discord I can get it started.
FWIK (correct me if i'm wrong) Discord is more like a chat, if so it looks less useful to me
WB BW Control
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Modern
UC UTron
RG Karn Metal Ponza
WRB Mardu Nahiri
Here's a link to the Tron Discord from reddit:
https://discordapp.com/invite/xzd6Hd4
Join us there!
Oh s**t!
I'm not a really good player at all, but I used to play Mono U Tron a while back (using shoktroopas' list as a base), and could do 4-1 consistently and 5-0 twice.
Time has passed and I was playing merfolk but after the Karn hype I decided to go back and give it a try.
So far the results are terrible (something like 3-8). It feels somehow clunky and the lattice combo is freakin' hard to assemble given the amount of disruption and/or creatures on the opponent's side.
So.. do you guys think that maybe I'm doing smething wrong or maybe the "classic" version is actually better?
The list I'm using: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1969316#online
I am a long time UTron player,
since the appearence of Karn, I am realy excited...
I think the list from Shook is likely the logical evolution of the deck - means reducing high costs and introducing cards from side.
the list I am trying is moreless the one from Shok (more repeals, more Talismans, 1 snap, full Karns, B. Zone, no Dismemeber, etc):
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1969316#online
but I am playing a full Karn and full dedicated artifacts in side. It is not good but I want to find out how good is Karn in the deck.
just a few questions mainly for Shok if he is by there (sure or others):
a) Why using the Trini in Side, I don't think it has any use and the same purpose is Chalice in side. If yes, please let me know reasons.
b) Why Revoker instead of Spyglass or Needle? likely for those WG Vizier?
c) me and a friend are evaluating the need of Oboro right now - we've included Blast Zone and also T. Edge thus reducing the blue land count and added the 3rd Talisman instead of 2nd Snap. and now that we don't play Mages we don't see much of as a need for the Oboro. Agree?
d) Why Leyline instead of more Tormods/Cage and Relic?
e) Definately No O. Stone in Side? me and a friend think it is one of the cards more frequesntly search for. (I think the most ones are Crucible, Lattice, Ballista and OStone)
f) definately thinking in 2nd Gemstone, bt not sure what to take out...
Thanks in advance, I personally agree mosts of the times with Shoks Lists/changes and his reasonings.
@syunikiso, with new Karn we are in a unexplored territory, you'll likely do better results with old lists if you are used to. I can guarranty that in short term I'll not do good results because of this, but definately Karn is something good for the deck. I am not ccmpletely sure and the fact that reduces our so comprissed side is something I don't like in a deck like tron. I for example am trying a full artifacts side - which is wrong - but I want to see the behaviour of karn and if it is worth its inclusion and at the same time reducing the side. In Legacy in TES I can say 7 slots for Burning Wish worths. But no idea in UTron...
anyway, I always take UTron as a deck I just like to play and never expect to do great results, sometimes I do, but sometimes I just loose miserably (because of *****ty Burn...)
EDIT: I've been thinking in Ensnaring Birdge + Bottled Cloister in side... but not sure if this is ok... by the moment lets see how S.Arbiter works... any idea?
Revoker is in their for all the random useless planeswalkers. It having wheels and turns sideways is the plus side over spyglass or needle.
Leylines just win games. Blatantly steal and end games on the spot.
I don’t see how bridge and cloister can be playable. It’s not. Abort that.
The sideboard can have anything you want in there really. I tried to use targets that gave me the option to remove things from the board quickly(e.e. And ballista). Cards that can stall when I have clear board .(cotv, 3ball, revoker actually is a blocker quite often. ) and then win conditions when we have ample mana. Everything in the sideboard should be cheap cmcs. Is it right? I don’t know .
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
6 Island
2 River of Tears
1 Field of Ruin
1 Blast Zone
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
Creatures (7)
3 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Mindslaver
Spells(20)
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Remand
2 Dismember
2 Force of Negation
4 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Fact or Fiction
PlanesWalkers (2)
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Spreading Seas
3 Spatial Contortion
3 Thought-Knot Seer
This is a list I play in paper. My current LGS does not have any Hogaak and is just a pile of Midrange and Combo. I probably do not need the spatial contortions but there is always the rogue humans player that I need them for.
If I was playing my list on MTGO or at a large paper event, I would likely change the sideboard to:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spreading Seas
2 Spatial Contortion
3 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Leyline of the Void
My main reason for not having the Leylines in my current deck is that I just don't own any in paper and don't have the funds to acquire them.
Force of Negation has been insane for me. I have won several games off of my opponents not expecting it, or not being able to play around 2-3+ counterspells in a turn.
A lack of Chalice of the Void, I currently do not own any but I feel that they aren't always necessary for us to win games. When they are relevant and we have them on a meaningful turn, they always feel amazing. But aside from that they feel horrid. In a Great Creator build I would certainly have chalices, as you are sacrificing some of your defensive spells to be more all in on that wincon.
I also hate what Karn does for this deck. Playing sorcery speed threats that do nothing the turn they come into play is simply bad. Force of Negation, on the other hand, may be one of the last few reasons to play Blue Tron instead of its brothers. I seriously like what this card does, given we can also pitch useless Condescends to it when we’re not into Tron mode. But we need to up the Blue Count.
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
7 Island
1 River of Tears
1 Field of Ruin
2 Blast Zone
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
Creatures (9)
3 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Torrential Gearhulk
3 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
Spells(21)
4 Condescend
3 Remand
4 Force of Negation
4 Repeal
2 Echoing Truth
4 Thirst For Knowledge
PlanesWalkers (1)
1 Ugin, The Spirit Dragon
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Dismember
3 Spatial Contortion
1 Negate
I play this deck more and more like a Control that has Big Mana advantages. In the current meta mono blue is fine on its own as a Control shell, cause several Hyper aggressive strategies nowadays mostly focus on few pivotal creatures (such as Thing in the Ice and Arclight Phoenix), while we can deal with swarms thanks to Blast Zone and Walking Ballista. Blast Zone singlehandedly made the Humans match-up much better than it once was, cause it’s very often an actual wrath on turn four even if we have to look for it (Map turn one, sad turn two, charge it turn three, kaboom turn four).
Mindslaver it’s still an hell of a card, but... either it isn’t very effective in a metagame dominated by Surgical Extraction, and it’s too slow in an environment well prepared to face Tron decks. We can now play the Draw Go game much better than before, and Blast Zone actually helps in the Control matchup too, dealing with annoying walkers.
Would like to play second Negate in the sideboard, but slots are what they are.
It’s less of a Tron card and more of a non-Tron mode card. You ideally want to cast it while you’re advancing in your gameplan in the first few turns, and it solves problems such as multiple Arclight Phoenix on the battlefield or an horde of Zombie Tokens. Truth be told, I’m also considering an Unsubstantiate in place of the fourth Repeal or the third Remand for similar reasons (being cheaper and hitting almost everything immediately).
4 Force is a mainstay. This deck is so slow that the card disadvantage is worth it, and it improves so many turns in the early game, even vs strategies which shouldn’t be weak to it (example: Infect’s pump spells, Affinity’s Scales and Stirrings, Shadow’s Denial on our bounce spells, etcetera).
Wanted to say a big thanks to all the previous posters who have discussed and developed the deck over the years, truly a great community has formed around our love for best tron.
@BloodyRabbit_01 I have been a big fan of your posts, I loved and fully embraced your innovation of maxing out on dismembers and ballistae to great success. However, after reading your analysis of Karn GC I have to disagree with you. To expand on why, I have laid out my thoughts on Karn's unique strengths/advantages below:
Firstly, he gives us the toolbox that was previously only achievable using the sub-par treasure and trinket mages or fabricate. Having to dedicate cards to your sideboard gives both positives and negatives, however overall in my meta not being able to switch to non-artifact sideboard tech G2 hasn’t negatively affected me as much as grabbing sideboard cards game 1 has positively.
It is also worth mentioning that this effect is also potentially repeatable should Karn survive, which leads me onto my second point.
Opponents have to respect the ability of Karn to be game-ending. An example of this could be, playing him turn 4 off 2 separate tron pieces and 2 islands, which wouldn’t be a threatening play with any other 4 drop we would potentially play (TKS, Solemn). Given the chance that on the following turn you could play the third tron piece, minus for lattice and essentially win the game on the spot. Although this line does revolve around you top-decking the final tron piece needed which is quite unlikely, I often find many opponents thinking “what is the worst possible outcome for me?” when deciding whether to attack Karn or me.
Finally the versatility of the cards Karn is available to fetch for in modern is incredible, as Shok mentioned a few pages back, you can essentially grab any kind of card needed (disruption, interaction or game enders). I have even taken to running a dampening sphere in the side (due to local meta full of our green cousins).
I would love for you to expand on your points a little more and continue this discussion – I’m not able to post my list right now but will do later when I get home.
On your inclusion of force of negation: It sounds super interesting, I can certainly see it being a lifesaver. However my concern is that it pushes us further into blue and "bad UW control" rather than into the niche space between control and big mana that we currently sit in - I will definitely be trying it out as a 1-2 of and see how I feel about it.
Thank you for your appreciation.
Regarding Karn: I’m not pretending this card never existed, I simply have few time to test this deck while taking care of my exams and testing different strategies. So, I stick to what I know it works.
That said, implementing Karn in the previous build isn’t that difficult. You can just trim one Snapcaster Mage, one Ugin and one Wurmcoil in order to make space for it. I was actually considering this change. It sucks to eat sideboard space, but it may be worth it in order to provide a game ending threat for the right matchup (I was considering Chalice of the Void, Mindslaver, Wurmcoil Engine and Mycosynth Lattice, other than utility cards such as another Walking Ballista or Oblivion Stone, Crucible of Worlds and something for the graveyard. But, see? How many cards left in the sideboard?
Force of Negation has been bonkers in my (limited) testing. There is no reason not to run the full set, imho. I already explained the reasons before, and it’s basically the only cards with whom we can interact with the opponent on turn zero/one. Or WHILE we are fetching with Map, WHILE we are bouncing a one drop, and so on. It gives the deck the consistency it needs.
Karn, the Great Creator obviously feels powerful when he does his thing. however sometimes you can cast him and just die. Maybe my wish board was wrong or not strong enough. Karn never won me games that a wurmcoil, mindslaver or even a walking ballista would have in the same position. So with that, I decided to cut him from the list. The tool box strategy I've found to be ineffective for a while now, I cut the tutors over a year ago and haven't looked back. Getting them from the sideboard is nice but I felt it was often times too slow. Sure a Turn 3 tron into Karn + Trinisphere or ensnaring bridge or chalice of the void on one is nice but that is a "perfect" sequence of 4 cards with your opponent having zero interaction.
Perhaps my initial idea of going hard control with Karn GC as our finisher is the right build for him. I've found hard control to be a better game plan for us over being a medium big mana midrange deck.
Same conclusion I came to. Instead of running lots of utilities in the board, we could just make the space for threats, while running more permission and removals in the main. Which would mean:
Mindslaver
Wurmcoil Engine
Mycosynth Lattice
Crucible of Worlds (which is sort of a finisher against many decks)
Without any Bridge, Chalice, O-Stone, Trini and such. It wouldn’t be that much of a Wishboard, this way.
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Relic of Progenitus
3x Spatial Contortion
2x Dismember
1x Ghost Quarter
Where Relic of Progenitus also act as a cantrip fetchable by Karn when you”re short on targets. I would definitely run a sixth piece of Grave hate while Hogaak is still legal, probably instead of the Ghost Quarter.
This would be the list with Karn, for reference.
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
7 Island
1 River of Tears
1 Field of Ruin
1 Blast Zone
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
3 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Torrential Gearhulk
Artifacts (6)
4 Expedition Map
2 Oblivion Stone
Spells(21)
4 Condescend
3 Remand
4 Force of Negation
4 Repeal
2 Echoing Truth
4 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Urza’s Mine
4 Urza’s Power Plant
4 Urza’s Tower
7 Island
2 Gemstone Caverns
1 Field of Ruin
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
Creatures (4)
2 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil Engine
Artifacts (10)
4 Expedition Map
2 Oblivion Stone
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Chalice of the Void
4 Condescend
3 Remand
4 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Cyclonic Rift
PlanesWalkers (6)
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Walking Ballista
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Mindslaver
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Spell Pierce
Round 1 vs Dredge, 2-0
Game 1 I’m on the draw. After a mull to 6, I keep a hand with a mine, island, map, remand, condescend and Karn GC and scry a 2nd island to the bottom.
He leads off with gemstone mine into a shriekhorn and mills a land and loam. I play mine->map and pass back. He dredges back his loam then mills with the horn netting him a narcomoeba and amalgam on end step, then plays a second shriekhorn but no second land. I untap and draw into a repeal, play the island and pass holding up remand. He mills in my 2nd main and finds a creeping chill to put me to 17, next turn he takes a natural draw and manages to find a second land – casts the loam in hand (removing the last counter from gemstone mine) which I quickly remand and draw into a powerplant. The rest of the game goes smoothly for me as his clock is too slow to race natural tron with karn getting cage and wurmcoil for the win.
I bring in the 2 spell pierce and 2 relics and side out the talismans and chalices, my opponent seems to bring in about a thousand cards. I have a pretty bland hand with only 2 non-tron lands, a spell pierce, ugin, remand and a pair of thirsts, but keep because I can turn 0 spell pierce with a gemstone caverns so I keep and pray to the Karnfather that I draw more lands. I exile one of the thirsts for the caverns and pierce a turn 1 looting, much to my opponents dismay. The next few turns consist of my being blessed by the top of my deck and my opponent milling/dredging all his over-sideboard tech (x4 alpine moons, x2 natures claims and a couple of ancient grudges). The game ends when I overload cyclonic rift and follow it up with an ugin.
Round 2 vs Artifact Burn? 2-1
My opponent is a local who I know quite well, I also know that he loves dredge – thankfully he is playing something a bit janky this week so I don’t have to play dredge twice in a row. I’m on the play and lead with power plant->map, he follows up with a mountain into bomat courier and chips in for 1. Turn two I land a tower and play chalice for 1, thinking he is on burn – he follows up by playing a darksteel citadel, mox opal, cranial plating and equipping to the bomat – ouch. Fortunately I draw into a ballista and fetch for the mine to play it on 2 and shoot down the bomat. My opponent struggles to finish me and reveals his hand with x3 galvanic blasts before scooping to karn+lattice locking him out of the game.
For game 2 I once again bring in the spell pierces and take out the talismans. I keep what I think is a strong hand with natural tron+karn, unfortunately I then get blown apart on turn 3 by 2 shrapnel blasts.
Game 3 I snap keep a god hand of 2 tron pieces, island, pierce, x2 condescend, karn, ballista, pierce on a mox opal slows his explosiveness and the condescends keep him from committing too much to the board. He ends up with a mox, an unequipped cranial plating and an ornithopter vs karn and ensnaring bridge in play, he spends a long time debating what he should sac and what he should target with a shrapnel blast – eventually deciding to shoot down karn saccing his ornithopter. This blasphemy is punished as our lord and saviour is reborn from the top of the deck.
Round 3 vs Traditional Affinity 2-0
Blessed Karn is a house both games, one sided stony silence is good against affinity – who knew. Game one he isn’t able to flood the board too hard and repeals keep him from doing too much damage before karn locks his key pieces from doing anything.
I don’t sideboard anything game two I lead with repeal on a mox opal and play a chalice for 0 to keeps him honest for a while before it gets smashed to smithereens. A few turns later I cast a karn and in response he floats red with a mox opal – signalling galvanic blast. I uptick to keep him alive as a stony silence and next turn he has to use a second galv blast to finish him off. My opponent has committed too much damage to the first karn and isn’t able to kill me before I draw a second and tutor a lattice for the win. Praise be to Karn and his delicious lettuce.
Round 4 vs Hogaak Bridgevine 2-1
It’s the new hotness, it’s 3-0 after just beating G tron and I have little experience playing against it – but with faith in the Karnfather anything is possible.
I’m on the draw but lead off with a gemstone caverns turn 0, he plays a faithless looting and discards a vengevine and a bloodghast. I land a tower into talisman and map. Next turn he plays a second land to trigger bloodghast and follows up with two stitchers supplier’s getting two bridge from below in the yard. I play a second tron piece and slam down almighty Karn (Turn 2!), pull a ballista from the sideboard and play it for 0 to exile the bridges. His next turn consists of playing a bunch of small dudes to bring back vengevine, which in turn he uses to convoke out a hogaak. I minus Karn for an ensnaring bridge and leave up condescend and repeal. Next turn he drops an altar which I condescend and scry the final tron piece to the top. I get hit for a lot but next assemble tron and land ugin to -7 to exile his board (including hogaak), from there I counter everything he plays and bounce a few bloodghasts until I draw into a wurmcoil and stabilise.
Game 2 I keep a hand with natural tron, a talisman and ugin with the plan of getting him out turn 3. Unfortunately he drops a thalia turn 2 and delays that plan, I lose without playing a single spell on turn 3 – deck’s busted.
Final game, I’m on the play which helps a LOT in this matchup (and most matchups tbf). I play mine into map, he evokes an ingot chewer to destroy it. This feels pretty good as I have the follow up chalice on 1 for turn 2, he struggles to play through this the entire game and I win with a mindslaver lock gifted to me by the great creator himself.
Some takeaways:
Karn GC was really impressive, a game winner against both the artifact decks I played and really useful in getting sideboard tech game 1 against the graveyard strategies.
Gemstone caverns really overperformed, I got quite lucky and saw them often when I needed to. These really helped against the unfair decks where having the extra land is necessary to keep up.
Talismans were surprisingly good, I usually hate these cards as they are often don’t have enough impact. But by having stronger, more impactful 4 drops (karn and karn), setting this up on turn 2 is now a more reasonable line to take.
Many of the sideboard cards, such as trinisphere and crucible, were never used and I am uncertain about running both mindslaver and lattice in the side – maybe this is overkill and it would be better to include some removal or extra non-artifact hate.
First of all, I went 4-0 in a small local tourney of 12 people! Mostly I think I just got lucky with a lot of turn 3-4 tron, while dodging bad matchups. I can type up a tournament report if anyone wants it, here is the list I played:
4x Condescend
1x Dismember
3x Remand
3x Repeal
1x Spatial Contortion
1x Spell Burst
2x Supreme Will
4x Thirst for Knowledge
Artifact (9)
2x Chalice of the Void
1x Dimir Signet
4x Expedition Map
1x Mindslaver
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Torrential Gearhulk
2x Trinket Mage
2x Walking Ballista
3x Wurmcoil Engine
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Land (23)
1x Academy Ruins
1x Field of Ruin
6x Island
2x River of Tears
1x Tolaria West
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Dismember
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Filigree Familiar
2x Nimble Obstructionist
2x Silent Arbiter
2x Spatial Contortion
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
2x Tormod's Crypt
Anyways, it seems like the discussion here has diminished lately, is there some other place that people are talking about U Tron?
Also, I have noticed to no one has taken over the primer on the new mtgnexus site, linked here, I would do it but I don't think I'm experienced enough with the deck.
I probably could write it but I feel like Shok, Trellon, Pie or Bloody should write it. Perhaps in collaboration since they all have pretty distinct builds.