Hi guys. What do you think about the new Tamiyo's epiphany?
For me scry 4 is huge! It could be very usefull when we need to find a wincon, dodging bad draws. Sure 4cmc is heavy, but I think a 2x may be good.
It's a functional reprint of foresee it already existed. Supreme will is a better version of the effect for the versatility rather than the card advantage.
At 4 Mana I'd rather play hieroglyphic illumination because we can always cycle it for 1 Mana to avoid counterspells or have an early turn 1 play. *Edit* If it needs to be four Mana and sorcery speed, Karn, Scion of Urza is a better card. He draws more cards if he doesn't die right away and can be a wincon all on his own.
There is certainly a lot of cards in war of the spark for us to try out though. I have a feeling Blast Zone or Karn, the Great Creator will be Mainstays in the deck.
Hi guys,I'm returning to active play. I'll be trying the new karn combo.
I need some advice about the deck, also, I need to fit the MB Batterskull in SB so that I can fit a second Karn, the great creator in MB.
With karn, I can get hate from SB, and depending on the situation I can get creatures:
If I have tron I can land karn+filigree in the same turn to gain time, If I have tron+1 mana I can land arbiter, if I dont have tron and tapped to cast karn, I can tutor batterskull (if I can fit him in SB) and play it next turn (although karn would probably die in this situation.
If I dont draw karn, I can still have reactive play and tutor hate with trinket mage.
As you see, I have MB and SB tangled, so I would be grateful if you can offer me sideboarding advice, should I take out both karns after game 1 in most matchups or only one?
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Modern:
Mono red burn with goblin guides
Mono U tron
Pili-pala combo
Mono Black control
UW control (Old, non miracles version)
EDH:
Mono black reanimator erebos
Freeform:
Mono Chancellor of the Dross
It depends on what you are trying to do with the sb. IMO, if you are playing 1 Karn I don't think we can afford to go full silver bullet sideboard. You want good cards that apply in several matchups, just in case Karn is bad. Chalice is a main deck card that you could swap with batterskull if you really want it in your side. Tutoring for chalice with Karn is way too slow. Chalice for one on turn 3 if we have Tron and Karn still seems too slow for it to really effect the game in a meaningful way.
With siding Karn out. With your board I don't think you can afford to regardless of the matchup. With 2, in aggressive matchups I would definitely side one out. He is pretty poor as a turn 4 play, even with tron (and I assume an island). I'm playing one Karn in my maindeck and siding him out in anything that attacks aggressively. He is much better against artifacts, slower combo and control.
@Barrin
I've too thought about going crazy and playing stars and spheres. I think it's definitely something to explore but I fear it just makes us a worse green tron. We are MUCH weaker to Stony silence and Chalice of the void if we go into the 10+ 1 Mana artifacts. I do think if we go down that route you might as well go all in and play the 3-4 relics main too. This should allow us to cut down even more lands and probably play 21+-1
Doing that though will probably cut back the usefulness of condescend as we'll probably be more focused on quick Tron, rather than delaying till we can out grind anyone with our Tron Mana. However the useful of Karn Liberated goes up in our deck if we do this. He wins a lot of games if just played on turn 3.
With the average list at 9-11 blue sources, a double blue card is not really feasible for us to cast till turn 5. (I used a hyper geometric calc that assumed 10 sources, on the draw and we've cast thirst, or have seen three extra cards. And that gives us ~78% chance)
The cards do look good and I would love to play Narset, but we'd need drastically more blue sources for us to reliably cast them by turn 3.
I do think narset is probably better against us than it would be in our deck (even if we shifted our Mana to be able to cast it). The static shuts down our main way to survive through the control mirror. Only drawing one card a turn is probably game ending if not dealt with.
Ashiok is probably not good in our deck, just like Narset. I personally play a lower number of tutors than other versions (only maps and new Karn). The incidental graveyard hate would be nice but Relic of Progenitus is a card we can maindeck that is on theme and draws cards.
I think Teferi, time raveler is also a rough card for us to play against UWx control. Losing instant speed is rough. I haven't played against UW since war has been released and I can't imagine that the match up is slightly in our favor anymore. It's probably more so in theirs now (assuming both players are on an even playing ability).
Thanks for the reply! I'll definitely give it a shot. Those were just my initial thoughts, I've wanted to try them for a while and you seeing that they at least show some amount of promise, is encouraging. I can see the use of 3 EE in the 75 for sure. Seems like a solid fit especially with the color fixing from all the eggs.
I definitely forgot that just using them to fix for blue on their turn was good. I am used to them in Green tron and just aggressively popping them for green to cantrip.
I was going to ask the same thing. Its obviously strong but can we afford to play it. According to an article from 2011 on CFB by Caleb Durward. (I don't know if we can post links to it but it easy enough to find) 15 is the minimum number of blue cards to make force of will playable with the alternate casting cost. My list plays 16 and I believe most people are around there as well.
Like a lot of other nice blue cards spoiled in War and now Modern Horizon's I think its better against us than for us. The Card disadvantage and only costing zero on our opponents turn is rough.I definitely want to try it when it is released though.
Side note. I played in a SCG IQ this weekend and came in 9th. Damn Tie breakers, was hoping to have my list posted. I felt pretty good about it other than running 3 negates. I wish I would have had 3 Spreading seas or 2 seas /1 negate. The meta was nearly 25% Tron, 25% Humans.
Hello, I don't think we have a enough good payoff for using the colored mana, rather than what we already accomplish with islands. G Tron otherwise, has Stirrings, that digs for 5 cards as a 1-drop, Sylvan Scrying as a 2-drop, that fetches any land of your deck. We have Repeal for 0 on turn 1, Remand/Condescend/Repeal on turn 2. Helps to cast stuff like Thirst and a decent Condescend while having only tron, and makes it easier to fetch a tron land/ruins with map. Maybe it would facilitate to transmute a Tolaria West too. Could be relevant? For sure. Helps to cycle through the deck and filters mana? Absolutely. Do I rather filter some blue mana to do some pretty specific plays that are not truly determinant nor necessary, because we still can play Islands or drop a Chalice of the Void that wins many matches, specially some obnoxious matches like Bogles/Infect/Burn and many more. Chalice IMO is one of the best Magic cards ever printed, I have very good experience with 4 maindeck, and Pierakor certainly has a even better experience with all aboard.
GTRON will use these artifacts because only one green mana makes them HAVE tron no matter what, its ridiculous how easy they assemble Tron, and their pay-off is that freaking silver dude that loves to lose to U Tron, but normally just win the game right in the spot.
Hi guy's I'm getting back to MTG after a 3 years break. I used to play in 2013 mono U tron and if i rememember correctly our MU against UW was good but i feel it's not the case anymore. Do you have the same feeling? I had few games this weekend and this new UW list with the new tef is a huge pain in the **.
long-time lurker. I've been playing mono U Tron for a while and I've fell in love with the new Karn, so I said to myself I might share my opinion about this new planeswalker. I had an opportunity to try him yesterday for the first time. Decided to try him as a 4-of. Not a single regret. The inclusion of him as a 4-of allows us in my opinion to play more interaction spells. It was my first try and I'm sure there is a lot to improve, but I think it might be a quite good.
What I really like about him in the deck is that you can move almost all the expensive cards to sideboard, so you don't end up with hand full of 6+ drops. Another thing I like is that you are not limited by CMC of the cards you are looking for, which sometimes hurts when you play mages.
So far I'm not really sure about the spell snares and correct number of talismans (I was also thinking about trying mind stone in its place). For the sideboard I think I might want to play second Oblivon stone there. I'm also quite tempted to try more snapcaster mages, but maybe two is enough. There is still a lot of options for the sideboard as Jester's cap,Witchbane orb,Pithing needle, Silent arbiter and other stuff, but it will need further testing.
Same, I dont wanna be left out. Truly a shame it's over for these forums. I'd like things to lat forever
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Modern: U Tron, BWTokens, W Soul Sisters, W Martyr Proc, GR Shamans, G Stompy, UW Poached Eggs,UW Emeria Control, R RDW GW Bogles, GWUTroll Worship, BGU Heartless Summoning Combo, WGRUB Endless Renewal Combo.
EDH: U Braids, Conjurer's Adept (My first),GWU Jenara, Asura of War (1vs1)BW Teysa, Orzhov Scion,GB Meren, of Clan Nel TothGW Trostanni, Selesnya Voice/Rhys, the redeemed, RB Rakdos, Lord of RiotsUWB Sen triplets (play everyones deck), Oloro, Sydri GW Sigarda enchantress W Thalia/Radiant, Archangel (casual games)U Azami, lady of scrolls, B Gisa, zombies tribal, WUBRG Horde of Notions,RW Gisela/Aurelia, R Krenko, W Nahiri/Kemba, R Daretti, G Titania/Nissa, G Freyalise/Ezuri, RBU Nekrusar, RBU Jeleva, GRBProssh, GWR Marath, GWRMayael, BW Daxos
Pauper: R RDW, GUWR PauperTron, W Weenies, GW Bogles Trolling: BW Tainted Remedy
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For me scry 4 is huge! It could be very usefull when we need to find a wincon, dodging bad draws. Sure 4cmc is heavy, but I think a 2x may be good.
Supreme will is a better version of the effect for the versatility rather than the card advantage.
or just searching up what you need with Karn, The Great Creator or fabricate or the mages.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
There is certainly a lot of cards in war of the spark for us to try out though. I have a feeling Blast Zone or Karn, the Great Creator will be Mainstays in the deck.
I need some advice about the deck, also, I need to fit the MB Batterskull in SB so that I can fit a second Karn, the great creator in MB.
4 expedition map
1 Batterskull
1 Chalice of the void
1 Engineered explosives
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion stone
Creatures
1 Snapcaster mage
1 Treasure mage
1 Trinket mage
2 Wurmcoil engine
2 Walking ballista
Instant
4 Thirst for knowledge
4 Condescend
2 Remand
2 Repeal
2 Supreme will
1 Cyclonic rift
1 Spell burst
1 Dismember
12 Tron
6 Island
3 River of tears
1 Tolaria west
1 Field of ruin
1 Blast zone
1 Academy ruins
Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the spirit dragon
1 Karn, the great creator
3 Spatial contortion
1 Dismember
1 Aethersprouts
1 Surgical extraction
1 Nimble obstructionist
1 Filigree familiar
1 Silent arbiter
1 Chalice of the void
1 Engineered explosives
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Crucible of worlds
1 Mycosynth lattice
With karn, I can get hate from SB, and depending on the situation I can get creatures:
If I have tron I can land karn+filigree in the same turn to gain time, If I have tron+1 mana I can land arbiter, if I dont have tron and tapped to cast karn, I can tutor batterskull (if I can fit him in SB) and play it next turn (although karn would probably die in this situation.
If I dont draw karn, I can still have reactive play and tutor hate with trinket mage.
As you see, I have MB and SB tangled, so I would be grateful if you can offer me sideboarding advice, should I take out both karns after game 1 in most matchups or only one?
Mono red burn with goblin guides
Mono U tron
Pili-pala combo
Mono Black control
UW control (Old, non miracles version)
EDH:
Mono black reanimator erebos
Freeform:
Mono Chancellor of the Dross
With siding Karn out. With your board I don't think you can afford to regardless of the matchup. With 2, in aggressive matchups I would definitely side one out. He is pretty poor as a turn 4 play, even with tron (and I assume an island). I'm playing one Karn in my maindeck and siding him out in anything that attacks aggressively. He is much better against artifacts, slower combo and control.
@Barrin
I've too thought about going crazy and playing stars and spheres. I think it's definitely something to explore but I fear it just makes us a worse green tron. We are MUCH weaker to Stony silence and Chalice of the void if we go into the 10+ 1 Mana artifacts. I do think if we go down that route you might as well go all in and play the 3-4 relics main too. This should allow us to cut down even more lands and probably play 21+-1
Doing that though will probably cut back the usefulness of condescend as we'll probably be more focused on quick Tron, rather than delaying till we can out grind anyone with our Tron Mana. However the useful of Karn Liberated goes up in our deck if we do this. He wins a lot of games if just played on turn 3.
I feel like it might be easier to have conversations about the deck in that format.
If something like that doesn't exist. Maybe it should!
The cards do look good and I would love to play Narset, but we'd need drastically more blue sources for us to reliably cast them by turn 3.
I do think narset is probably better against us than it would be in our deck (even if we shifted our Mana to be able to cast it). The static shuts down our main way to survive through the control mirror. Only drawing one card a turn is probably game ending if not dealt with.
Ashiok is probably not good in our deck, just like Narset. I personally play a lower number of tutors than other versions (only maps and new Karn). The incidental graveyard hate would be nice but Relic of Progenitus is a card we can maindeck that is on theme and draws cards.
I think Teferi, time raveler is also a rough card for us to play against UWx control. Losing instant speed is rough. I haven't played against UW since war has been released and I can't imagine that the match up is slightly in our favor anymore. It's probably more so in theirs now (assuming both players are on an even playing ability).
I definitely forgot that just using them to fix for blue on their turn was good. I am used to them in Green tron and just aggressively popping them for green to cantrip.
It‘s noncreatures only, looks strong nonetheless.
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
Like a lot of other nice blue cards spoiled in War and now Modern Horizon's I think its better against us than for us. The Card disadvantage and only costing zero on our opponents turn is rough.I definitely want to try it when it is released though.
Side note. I played in a SCG IQ this weekend and came in 9th. Damn Tie breakers, was hoping to have my list posted. I felt pretty good about it other than running 3 negates. I wish I would have had 3 Spreading seas or 2 seas /1 negate. The meta was nearly 25% Tron, 25% Humans.
GTRON will use these artifacts because only one green mana makes them HAVE tron no matter what, its ridiculous how easy they assemble Tron, and their pay-off is that freaking silver dude that loves to lose to U Tron, but normally just win the game right in the spot.
The liste i'm testing:
1 Academy Ruins
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Platinum Angel
3 Repeal
4 Remand
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Mindslaver
8 Island
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Field of Ruin
4 Expedition Map
1 Cyclonic Rift
4 Condescend
1 Aetherize
1 Tolaria West
1 Supreme Will
2 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Mindslaver
1 Batterskull
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Mycosynth Lattice
I am just using 2x Walking Ballista over that and the Platinum Angel (which is in the side)
As for using the baubles, I am using main deck Relic of progenitus as a bauble cantrip with upside against many common decks.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
This Tron discord has a U-Tron discussion
https://discord.gg/cpd9r5
Hope this link works, never tried inviting anyone
Fact or Fiction is coming!
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
I'm very excited about trying Fact or Fiction
long-time lurker. I've been playing mono U Tron for a while and I've fell in love with the new Karn, so I said to myself I might share my opinion about this new planeswalker. I had an opportunity to try him yesterday for the first time. Decided to try him as a 4-of. Not a single regret. The inclusion of him as a 4-of allows us in my opinion to play more interaction spells. It was my first try and I'm sure there is a lot to improve, but I think it might be a quite good.
Here is the decklist:
2 Snapcaster Mage
Land
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Island
1 River of Tears
1 Field of Ruin
Artifact
1 Oblivion Stone
3 Talisman of Dominance
4 Expedition Map
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Condescend
3 Remand
3 Repeal
2 Spell Snare
1 Dismember
1 Cyclonic Rift
Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Mindslaver
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Trinisphere
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Batterskull
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Sundering Titan
2 Spatial Contortion
What I really like about him in the deck is that you can move almost all the expensive cards to sideboard, so you don't end up with hand full of 6+ drops. Another thing I like is that you are not limited by CMC of the cards you are looking for, which sometimes hurts when you play mages.
So far I'm not really sure about the spell snares and correct number of talismans (I was also thinking about trying mind stone in its place). For the sideboard I think I might want to play second Oblivon stone there. I'm also quite tempted to try more snapcaster mages, but maybe two is enough. There is still a lot of options for the sideboard as Jester's cap,Witchbane orb,Pithing needle, Silent arbiter and other stuff, but it will need further testing.
I’d be super excited about joining the discord!
EDH: U Braids, Conjurer's Adept (My first),GWU Jenara, Asura of War (1vs1)BW Teysa, Orzhov Scion,GB Meren, of Clan Nel TothGW Trostanni, Selesnya Voice/Rhys, the redeemed, RB Rakdos, Lord of RiotsUWB Sen triplets (play everyones deck), Oloro, Sydri GW Sigarda enchantress W Thalia/Radiant, Archangel (casual games)U Azami, lady of scrolls, B Gisa, zombies tribal, WUBRG Horde of Notions,RW Gisela/Aurelia, R Krenko, W Nahiri/Kemba, R Daretti, G Titania/Nissa, G Freyalise/Ezuri, RBU Nekrusar, RBU Jeleva, GRBProssh, GWR Marath, GWRMayael, BW Daxos
Pauper: R RDW, GUWR PauperTron, W Weenies, GW Bogles Trolling: BW Tainted Remedy