I havent played for months, so I need deck building advice. I'm aware the meta shifted and now I'm worried about burn, spirits and humans. Could you give me some deckbuilding advice?
BTW UR living end seems strong with electrodominance now
Platinum angel is scheduled to be swapped by another Walking ballista. As for titan, I still get to see him shine, but less than before. I might substitute him for batterskull or other card.
Thank you all
Private Mod Note
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Modern:
Mono red burn with goblin guides
Mono U tron
Pili-pala combo
Mono Black control
UW control (Old, non miracles version)
EDH:
Mono black reanimator erebos
Freeform:
Mono Chancellor of the Dross
Walking Ballista is definitely great to have in the deck. I'm playing the full 4 in the deck and don't regret it. I've never been a fan of fabricate, if I'm going to play a tutor, I'd rather it be one the mages (Trinket/treasure).They block for a turn or can represent a clock that most control decks just let sit there for couple turns.
If you are worried about burn you can play more wurmcoils or more chalice in the maindeck. Wurmcoil is also good against humans, same with walking ballista.
I don't know if pithing needle is needed in the board, the things with activated abilities we are really worried about we normally can answer pretty easily (e.g. Teferi), they are spending 5 and we'll probably win that counter war with them down 5 mana.
I used to play batterskull and Sundering titan. They were fun when they got people but I've that wurmcoil engine is just way better. It comes in the same turn as batterskull if we have fast tron, or a turn faster than titan. I think titan is a win more rather than a win condition.
I havent played for months, so I need deck building advice. I'm aware the meta shifted and now I'm worried about burn, spirits and humans. Could you give me some deckbuilding advice?
BTW UR living end seems strong with electrodominance now
Thank you all
You should basically never be scared of living end. Chalice on 0 will essentially win you the game. Its one of our best matchups. For Burn you can play 2 wurmcoils, a copy of batterskull, or bottle gnomes(believe it or not its awesome; blocks 2/2s easily and can be sac in response to targeting) in the sideboard. Spirits and humans are decent targets for playing 1-2 copies of engineered explosives. You could also consider mainboarding some copies of spatial contortion.
Did anybody else see the U tron list that snagged the 1st place at the GP? I'm interested in a few things about that deck.
They cut all copies of remand
Two copied of nimble obstructionist; but that begs the question why?
Why play kefnet? Seems too slow for an aggro meta.
Did anybody else see the U tron list that snagged the 1st place at the GP? I'm interested in a few things about that deck.
They cut all copies of remand
Two copied of nimble obstructionist; but that begs the question why?
Why play kefnet? Seems too slow for an aggro meta.
I'm assuming the Nimble Obstructionist was added in place of Remand because it's 1 cmc more for a hard counter + card draw. It's also flexible as a blocker or a clock (with flying and flash, no less), if the matchup doesn't call for a significant number of counters. A decent number of matchups call for a chalice on 1 and/or 2. If you Chalice on 2, Remand is out, but Obstructionist is still viable. Also, in that IQ, there were 3 burn decks in the top 8, making Remand feel real awful against all those 1 and 2 CMC spells.
I don't know about Kefnet the Mindful... Assuming he's in the opening hand, T1 - land, 6 cards in hand, 7 if on draw, 5 or 6 if you play a map. T2 - draw, land, remain at 6/7 or 5/6, crack map then go to 6/7. T3 - draw, land, Kefnet, drop to 6/7. So, maybe on T3, but unlikely, he's a 5/5. More likely on T4 he's a 5/5 because you'll have likely naturally drawn your 7th card or, at worst, you can activate Kefnet and draw the 7th.
In a fast aggro or combo deck matchup, I don't see Kefnet as an overly useful inclusion. However, against control or midrange, I think it's a useful addition. The longer the game is likely to go, the more powerful he is, imo.
Hi guys, I write because I need some advice and explanation of some card.
Can someone of you answer why MYR battlesphere is not played in Utron?
And what do you think about supreme will?
Last but not least, nimble obstructionist is really needed?
I'M trying to test a supreme will in one copy in my maid deck, for digging better and search mass removal for aggro decks like spirit...
Because I think spirit is a really hard matchup
Hi guys, I write because I need some advice and explanation of some card.
Can someone of you answer why MYR battlesphere is not played in Utron?
And what do you think about supreme will?
Last but not least, nimble obstructionist is really needed?
I've never been a huge fan of battle ball but I could see why it could be played and useful in some matchups. It making multiple bodies is definitely no joke.
I've been in love with supreme will in the shell of U Tron I play, I just went back down to a singular copy of it to put back in the fourth expedition map. A lot of people never play around supreme will, the expect you to have up remand or thirst. The random counter mode on this is great. The impulse mode is something I find my self doing a lot
side note, perhaps we need another card draw card? I was thinking about playing with a singleton copy of hieroglyphic illumination, it gives us another turn one play as well as something powerful in the late game. This could be a wrong choice but its just a thought.
Nimble Obstructionist is a card I used to play with and liked but never loved. Sure the Stifle mode of it feels good but rarely wins the game. (Only have had this happen once, stifling a fetch land of my GDS opponent. Leaving them with zero lands) The Flash creature mode is probably the stronger of the half and even then I'd rather just play another big threat. 3 mana is the tough spot for this deck because we are either casting a wurmcoil engine with 3 lands or thirst for knowledge.
TLDR: I agree with what Barrin_master_wizard basically said
One thing about Kefnet came to mind: with his carddraw ability, you can return a Tron land to your hand and thereby protect it from Field of Ruin (or rather stifle that activation).
I definitely agree with the reasoning on Hieroglyphic Illumination being nice at instant speed on both sides. Especially over opt and most lists playing some number of chalice of the voids. The card would be insane if it was 1U cycle and do a sleight of hand or opt effect.
Most Games I tend to play have at least 2 blue sources at the end win or lose. I don't think we are necessarily losing if we don't have fast tron, but it certainly helps. If we wanted fast tron, I would just play mono green. This card is definitely insane in the long game, drawing two cards instant speed is nice. I always find myself wanting more interaction in early turns, maybe just playing relic of progenitus. The relic cantrips early which is a definite plus, and having some form of graveyard hate (although minuscule) in the main gives us some amount of percentage points. There is a ton of graveyard based decks running rampant, as well as some that just use it as value. This would still not change my sideboard full of graveyard hate, this would bring my GY hate up to 5 cards through out the 75 which could just be right (3 surgical extraction and 1 Tormod's Crypt in the side currently).
I'm already playing 3 dismember in the main, to give me turn 1 interaction on the draw. To offset that I'm on 3 wurmcoil engine and tempted to go to a fourth, with Burn and Mono-red Phoenix coming up in popularity.
I'm going to give one Hieroglyphic Illumination a try though. I don't think more than one would be correct because it is definitely clunky at 4 mana and not the easiest to cycle early in the game.
Trinket mage/Tolaria West: The tutor package is amazing here. Find the land you need or a map. EE, tormods crypt, chalice, walking ballista, pithing needle if you wanted to run it. Between these two tutors you have lots of options.
Note: I'm not sure if it would be right to drop the trinket mage for a fabricate which would open up playing silent arbiter and batterskull at the cost of a 2/2 body. An additional maindeck life gainer would be huge in a phoenix/burn heavy meta.
Karn continuous to impress me. He competes with solemn for the 4 slot. I'm not sure it wouldn't be correct to cut solemn and run a second. He's great in control/midrange match ups and makes decent blockers in a pinch.
Angel vs Sundering titan: IDK which is the right choice. Run both? Angel won me a few games I would have lost had I had titan in her place. Titan would have been win more against jund, even to negative against phoenix or burn, and terrible against any mono colored deck (skred, green control) or something like affinity or tezzerator. For now I think its correct to run the angel which can at least block phoenix and is never really dead, even if sometimes it could be better.
R1: Terrible green deck. Free win.
R2: UR phoenix. Ended up going 1-1-0 with a tie this round. My opponent played super slow and by game three I probably would have won had he just gone a bit faster. In this matchup he was playing phoenix and thing in the ice. Repeal was of course excellent vs thing in the ice. I am playing a trinket mage package (MB maps, two chalice of the void, walking ballista; SB Engineered explosives, grafdigger's cage) so bringing in grafdigger's cage here was excellent. The card also has great game vs the new GU creature pod decks that are showing up, as well as splash hate vs random collected company decks. Additionally, surgical extraction was obviously key to target the phoenixes and ancient grudge they run. Chalice on one is very hard for them to deal with game one. Beware the grudges that get pitched to the GY.
R3: Jund which has to be one of our best match ups. Once you find and land a wurmcoil its lights out. Postboard you can bring in some dismember if you want and maybe remove platinum angel. Its a great matchup that you should win most times.
R4: Death shadow. G1 its important to repeal their death shadow. Going for the wurmcoil here should stabilize you. If you have tron up you can sometimes kill them with a mindslaver activation because at that point they are often at about 3 life. I actually thoughtseized targeting self and cracked a fetch to kill him with mindslaver. Postboard you can bring in the EE, dismembers. Surgical extraction seems like it would be good here but its a trap. You need to get a deaths shadow in the GY to make it work which is usually pretty hard unless we are already stabilized.
R5: Somehow a skredless red skred deck made it to the finals. As you know blood moon does little to slow us down nor does an ensnaring bridge. Resolve a wurmcoil, protect a platinum angel, or ugin them for the win. You have lots of choices and are heavily favored game one. Post board watch for abrade and maybe some GY hate for your mindslaver. Remove sundering titan and probably your chalices to bring in spatial contortion and maybe something like negate or spell pierce if you run them.
I play same deck list as yours more or less.
I only want to ask: do you think the second mindslaver is really necessary in this fast aggro meta?
I decided tu cut it for the 3rd chalice...
But I really need to know why you choose to play the second.
Thanks
I only want to ask: do you think the second mindslaver is really necessary in this fast aggro meta?
Thats a great question. It could certainly be cut and you wouldn't be wrong to do it. however, as mindslaver is one of the primary win cons sometimes its better to have three ways to find it vs just two.
TBH I have considered cutting the second slaver for a batterskull in the main. Something like:
I've tested fabricate over a trinket, and after the test I say: I will never play fabricate over trinket in this meta.
There are one big reason: play fabricate, I absolutely know you can tutor oblivion stone, but if you don't have Tron is not useful, instead trinket is a 2/2 and can block, he gives us time.
I also play EE maindeck for this reason.
I am a huge fan of creature tutor
Went 2-2, beat the Goblins and SS handily - lost to Storm and Elves. Elves I was a turn away from winning, so it didn't seem that stacked, but Storm I just had no idea how to play against.
Obivously it's going to be a very uphill battle with this many bad matchups, but what would be your mainboard tweaks to make the deck more competitive in this environment.
I was thinking of mainboarding a Tormod's Crypt and a single Dismember, but I've no idea what to cut, or if that's even the right chocie.
Hey guys! Ravnica allegiance caught my eye with two significantly powerful cards that looked interesting in U tron: Hydroid Krasis and Wilderness Reclamation.
It may seem funny at first look but both cards really upgrade some weaknesses of the deck:
- Hydroid Krasis is really nice in the meta. it's not hard and late to cast and it can be huge pretty quickly. It proved to be amazing against spirits and more than decent versus phoenix, burn and all midrange/controls. Also much better than wurmcoil against azorius because of PTE. Postboard it eats the Disdainful strokes but the trigger is pretty commonly 4 or 5 cards on the stack...
The other really nice thing is having 4 big modulable daddies with the couple of ballistas as well. Flooding is pretty rewarded in this deck, as allowed by this other card:
- Wilderness reclamation. My first list was only splashing krasis but digging on web I saw a post about wilderness being a contender for U tron and my mind was blown. This is really cute, but take it seriously: it improves many cards in the deck. The counterspells shine because if you are a Tron player you know the big dilemma is playing daddy or keeping counterspell up , waiting for more mana to protect etc. This allows to put pressure and completely protect your board with 8 mana condescends instead of 2, or casting 2 counterspells, and this makes a real difference.
thirst for knowledge is also nuts with untapping. One nice thing is also Kefnet the Mindful. You guys underrate how nice in the format he is. He wrecks spirits/humans, is really hard to eat for non white decks and if you play paper opponents mess to understand him and often make mistakes. It pretty much keeps late game in check with double card drawing and becomes BONKERS with wilderness. Also note he can bounce your T west if you had to play it early.
Walking ballista becomes also really good with wilderness but the real deal is mindslaver. You can easily activate it the turn you play it, even without tron. slaver-Combo is easier to assemble so i'd like to put back treasure mage maybe... Academy ruins, Nimble obstructionist, cyclonic rift (i'm considering adding a second one to the main) also are really improved by Wilderness.
Of course the splash has downsides such as simic signet (i really wish there were simic talismans) since it can't cast map or dismember on T2. Helps casting krasis though.
Sideboard offers nice inclusion with Thragtusk as a really nice addition, tempoes aggro for 2 turns which is awesome in U tron; nature's claim deals nicely with bad MU such as affinity and many cards like stony silence or damp sphere..
That meta isn't actually too bad for U tron. Dredge being an awful matchup, same with goblins (if they have a good start, and you don't have turn 2 chalice on the play). Since the meta is so aggressive you could and probably should only play 1 mindslaver.
Storm is probably one of our best matchups so I agree you just weren't playing it right. Most of the time I find myself playing very hard control. Just counter all the key stuff, gifts ungiven, and creatures. They have a hard time winning after that. One thing I found really helpful to learn how to play against storm, is to play ~50 games of storm to learn how it really operates. You'll learn when they are bluffing or ritual spamming to try and just get there. Do this with proxies or your free online platform of choice (I use xmage). However with this hard control you just can't try to counter everything. A 2/2 ballista or even just treasure/trinket/snapcaster mage beats has won me games against storm. You just need to learn when you can go shields down (even just partially) to get a threat in and start actually winning the game.
If you want more game versus elves, I'd suggest going up to 3 walking ballista in the main. The card is nuts versus any creature deck. Even just 2 of them along with your EE will suffice. I'm currently playing 3 dismember in the mainboard and Never find they are bad. If you can slip in one into your main I would highly recommend it.
With 2 dredge, phoenix and storm, I don't know how your sideboard looks but if you wanted to play a Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus in the main it wouldn't hurt you. With that much graveyard recursion it might actually just be right to try that. Maybe even 2 relics, they are less dead versus the non graveyard decks because they draw cards if you can't pitch them to thirst.
I'm a huge fan of thought-knot seer and play 3 in my board. Its amazing versus Tron and Storm in that meta.
My Sideboard is:
2x Surgical Extraction (waiting for them to arrive, so they weren't ready for FNM)
3x Dismember
3x Spatial Contortion
2x Spreading Seas
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Spell Pierce
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Sundering Titan (a placeholder really, I don't see what I'd hit with it in this meta)
I cut the Platinum Angel from the maindeck because it seems only good against Elves and even that is not a sure thing, and put in a Tormod's Crypt. I'll test it first and then switch to Relic if I find it lacking. My logic with this is that Relic is a bit slower and the alternative of sniping for one per turn is not as good against the likes of Dredge/Phoenix as it is against midrange i.e. that when I'll want to deal with the GY I'll want it now. Maybe that's not correct, testing will show.
The Titan will go as well, much as I like him, leaving 2 slots.
I only have one Ballista, but yes, the thing is amazing. Still not sure what is cuttable for Dismember, I'm so loath to ditch the occasional value Mindslaver, although you're probably right.
Is baby Karn good in a meta like this, I'm quite uncertain about him. Solemn too.
I haven't been on a shok list in a while but solemn and karn are still solid cards. If you are cutting one, I'd personally cut solemn.
Your sideboard seems solid, I agree with cutting the Titan. You just go up to the full 4 spatial contortion or the third spreading seas.
I know a lot of people are high on gemstone caverns but "stealing the play" at cost of a card is kinda meh to me. A crucible of worlds or another land destruction land could also hedge against Tron too. spell snare is also a really fun card to have against storm too.
BTW UR living end seems strong with electrodominance now
This is my list:
12 Tron
1 Tolaria west
3 River of tears
1 Field of ruin
1 Academy ruins
7 Island
Creatures
2 Wurmcoil engine
1 Sundering titan
1 Walking ballista
1 Treasure mage
1 Snapcaster mage
1 Platinum angel
Instants
4 Condescend
3 Remand
2 Supreme will
1 Spellburst
2 Repeal
1 Cyclonic rift
2 Dismember
4 Thirst for knowledge
1 Ugin, the spirit dragon
1 Mindslaver
4 Expedition map
1 Oblivion stone
1 Chalice of the void
1 Fabricate
1 Ghost quarter
1 Crucible of worlds
1 Chalice of the void
1 Relic of progenitus
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Surgical extraction
1 Pithing needle
1 Nimble obstructionist
3 Spatial contortion
1 Dismember
1 Engineered explosives
1 All is dust
1 Silent arbiter
Platinum angel is scheduled to be swapped by another Walking ballista. As for titan, I still get to see him shine, but less than before. I might substitute him for batterskull or other card.
Thank you all
Mono red burn with goblin guides
Mono U tron
Pili-pala combo
Mono Black control
UW control (Old, non miracles version)
EDH:
Mono black reanimator erebos
Freeform:
Mono Chancellor of the Dross
If you are worried about burn you can play more wurmcoils or more chalice in the maindeck. Wurmcoil is also good against humans, same with walking ballista.
I don't know if pithing needle is needed in the board, the things with activated abilities we are really worried about we normally can answer pretty easily (e.g. Teferi), they are spending 5 and we'll probably win that counter war with them down 5 mana.
I used to play batterskull and Sundering titan. They were fun when they got people but I've that wurmcoil engine is just way better. It comes in the same turn as batterskull if we have fast tron, or a turn faster than titan. I think titan is a win more rather than a win condition.
You should basically never be scared of living end. Chalice on 0 will essentially win you the game. Its one of our best matchups. For Burn you can play 2 wurmcoils, a copy of batterskull, or bottle gnomes(believe it or not its awesome; blocks 2/2s easily and can be sac in response to targeting) in the sideboard. Spirits and humans are decent targets for playing 1-2 copies of engineered explosives. You could also consider mainboarding some copies of spatial contortion.
Did anybody else see the U tron list that snagged the 1st place at the GP? I'm interested in a few things about that deck.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
I'm assuming the Nimble Obstructionist was added in place of Remand because it's 1 cmc more for a hard counter + card draw. It's also flexible as a blocker or a clock (with flying and flash, no less), if the matchup doesn't call for a significant number of counters. A decent number of matchups call for a chalice on 1 and/or 2. If you Chalice on 2, Remand is out, but Obstructionist is still viable. Also, in that IQ, there were 3 burn decks in the top 8, making Remand feel real awful against all those 1 and 2 CMC spells.
I don't know about Kefnet the Mindful... Assuming he's in the opening hand, T1 - land, 6 cards in hand, 7 if on draw, 5 or 6 if you play a map. T2 - draw, land, remain at 6/7 or 5/6, crack map then go to 6/7. T3 - draw, land, Kefnet, drop to 6/7. So, maybe on T3, but unlikely, he's a 5/5. More likely on T4 he's a 5/5 because you'll have likely naturally drawn your 7th card or, at worst, you can activate Kefnet and draw the 7th.
In a fast aggro or combo deck matchup, I don't see Kefnet as an overly useful inclusion. However, against control or midrange, I think it's a useful addition. The longer the game is likely to go, the more powerful he is, imo.
Can someone of you answer why MYR battlesphere is not played in Utron?
And what do you think about supreme will?
Last but not least, nimble obstructionist is really needed?
Because I think spirit is a really hard matchup
I've never been a huge fan of battle ball but I could see why it could be played and useful in some matchups. It making multiple bodies is definitely no joke.
I've been in love with supreme will in the shell of U Tron I play, I just went back down to a singular copy of it to put back in the fourth expedition map. A lot of people never play around supreme will, the expect you to have up remand or thirst. The random counter mode on this is great. The impulse mode is something I find my self doing a lot
side note, perhaps we need another card draw card? I was thinking about playing with a singleton copy of hieroglyphic illumination, it gives us another turn one play as well as something powerful in the late game. This could be a wrong choice but its just a thought.
Nimble Obstructionist is a card I used to play with and liked but never loved. Sure the Stifle mode of it feels good but rarely wins the game. (Only have had this happen once, stifling a fetch land of my GDS opponent. Leaving them with zero lands) The Flash creature mode is probably the stronger of the half and even then I'd rather just play another big threat. 3 mana is the tough spot for this deck because we are either casting a wurmcoil engine with 3 lands or thirst for knowledge.
TLDR: I agree with what Barrin_master_wizard basically said
Greetings
Most Games I tend to play have at least 2 blue sources at the end win or lose. I don't think we are necessarily losing if we don't have fast tron, but it certainly helps. If we wanted fast tron, I would just play mono green. This card is definitely insane in the long game, drawing two cards instant speed is nice. I always find myself wanting more interaction in early turns, maybe just playing relic of progenitus. The relic cantrips early which is a definite plus, and having some form of graveyard hate (although minuscule) in the main gives us some amount of percentage points. There is a ton of graveyard based decks running rampant, as well as some that just use it as value. This would still not change my sideboard full of graveyard hate, this would bring my GY hate up to 5 cards through out the 75 which could just be right (3 surgical extraction and 1 Tormod's Crypt in the side currently).
I'm already playing 3 dismember in the main, to give me turn 1 interaction on the draw. To offset that I'm on 3 wurmcoil engine and tempted to go to a fourth, with Burn and Mono-red Phoenix coming up in popularity.
I'm going to give one Hieroglyphic Illumination a try though. I don't think more than one would be correct because it is definitely clunky at 4 mana and not the easiest to cycle early in the game.
2 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster
1 Trinket Mage
1 Treasure Mage
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum angel
1 solemn simulacrum
Spells
3 Remand
2 Repeal
4 condescend
4 thirst for knowledge
1 ugin, the spirit dragon
1 karn, scion of urza
4 expedition map
2 chalice of the void
2 talisman of dominance
2 mindslaver
1 oblivion stone
lands
12 Tron Lands
6 island
2 river of tears
1 tolaria west
1 field of ruin
1 gemstone caverns
1 academy ruins
2 surgical extraction
2 spellskite
1 hurkyl's recall
1 ceremonious rejection
1 crucible of worlds
1 ghost quarter
1 grafdigger's cage
2 dismember
2 spatial contortion
1 engineered explosives
1 tormod's crypt
Few comments on choices:
Trinket mage/Tolaria West: The tutor package is amazing here. Find the land you need or a map. EE, tormods crypt, chalice, walking ballista, pithing needle if you wanted to run it. Between these two tutors you have lots of options.
Note: I'm not sure if it would be right to drop the trinket mage for a fabricate which would open up playing silent arbiter and batterskull at the cost of a 2/2 body. An additional maindeck life gainer would be huge in a phoenix/burn heavy meta.
Karn continuous to impress me. He competes with solemn for the 4 slot. I'm not sure it wouldn't be correct to cut solemn and run a second. He's great in control/midrange match ups and makes decent blockers in a pinch.
Angel vs Sundering titan: IDK which is the right choice. Run both? Angel won me a few games I would have lost had I had titan in her place. Titan would have been win more against jund, even to negative against phoenix or burn, and terrible against any mono colored deck (skred, green control) or something like affinity or tezzerator. For now I think its correct to run the angel which can at least block phoenix and is never really dead, even if sometimes it could be better.
R1: Terrible green deck. Free win.
R2: UR phoenix. Ended up going 1-1-0 with a tie this round. My opponent played super slow and by game three I probably would have won had he just gone a bit faster. In this matchup he was playing phoenix and thing in the ice. Repeal was of course excellent vs thing in the ice. I am playing a trinket mage package (MB maps, two chalice of the void, walking ballista; SB Engineered explosives, grafdigger's cage) so bringing in grafdigger's cage here was excellent. The card also has great game vs the new GU creature pod decks that are showing up, as well as splash hate vs random collected company decks. Additionally, surgical extraction was obviously key to target the phoenixes and ancient grudge they run. Chalice on one is very hard for them to deal with game one. Beware the grudges that get pitched to the GY.
R3: Jund which has to be one of our best match ups. Once you find and land a wurmcoil its lights out. Postboard you can bring in some dismember if you want and maybe remove platinum angel. Its a great matchup that you should win most times.
R4: Death shadow. G1 its important to repeal their death shadow. Going for the wurmcoil here should stabilize you. If you have tron up you can sometimes kill them with a mindslaver activation because at that point they are often at about 3 life. I actually thoughtseized targeting self and cracked a fetch to kill him with mindslaver. Postboard you can bring in the EE, dismembers. Surgical extraction seems like it would be good here but its a trap. You need to get a deaths shadow in the GY to make it work which is usually pretty hard unless we are already stabilized.
R5: Somehow a skredless red skred deck made it to the finals. As you know blood moon does little to slow us down nor does an ensnaring bridge. Resolve a wurmcoil, protect a platinum angel, or ugin them for the win. You have lots of choices and are heavily favored game one. Post board watch for abrade and maybe some GY hate for your mindslaver. Remove sundering titan and probably your chalices to bring in spatial contortion and maybe something like negate or spell pierce if you run them.
I only want to ask: do you think the second mindslaver is really necessary in this fast aggro meta?
I decided tu cut it for the 3rd chalice...
But I really need to know why you choose to play the second.
Thanks
Thats a great question. It could certainly be cut and you wouldn't be wrong to do it. however, as mindslaver is one of the primary win cons sometimes its better to have three ways to find it vs just two.
TBH I have considered cutting the second slaver for a batterskull in the main. Something like:
+1 Batterskull
+1 Fabricate
-1 Trinket Mage
-1 Mindslaver
But, I just haven't gotten to test that out often enough.
There are one big reason: play fabricate, I absolutely know you can tutor oblivion stone, but if you don't have Tron is not useful, instead trinket is a 2/2 and can block, he gives us time.
I also play EE maindeck for this reason.
I am a huge fan of creature tutor
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Remand
2 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
2 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruin
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 River of Tears
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tolaria West
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
My local shop meta is:
2x Dredge, 2x Elves, UR Phoneix, 2x G/GB Tron, 1x Storm, 1x Soul Sisters, 1x Goblins
Went 2-2, beat the Goblins and SS handily - lost to Storm and Elves. Elves I was a turn away from winning, so it didn't seem that stacked, but Storm I just had no idea how to play against.
Obivously it's going to be a very uphill battle with this many bad matchups, but what would be your mainboard tweaks to make the deck more competitive in this environment.
I was thinking of mainboarding a Tormod's Crypt and a single Dismember, but I've no idea what to cut, or if that's even the right chocie.
2 Hydroid Krasis
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Kefnet the Mindful
Enchantment
2 Wilderness Reclamation
Land
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Island
4 Urza's Mine
3 Yavimaya Coast
1 Breeding Pool
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Botanical Sanctum
1 Field of Ruin
Artifact
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Simic Signet
4 Expedition Map
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Condescend
2 Remand
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Dismember
2 Repeal
1 Spatial Contortion
1 Cyclonic Rift
Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Nimble Obstructionist
2 Thragtusk
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Commandeer
2 Nature's Claim
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Dismember
1 Negate
It may seem funny at first look but both cards really upgrade some weaknesses of the deck:
- Hydroid Krasis is really nice in the meta. it's not hard and late to cast and it can be huge pretty quickly. It proved to be amazing against spirits and more than decent versus phoenix, burn and all midrange/controls. Also much better than wurmcoil against azorius because of PTE. Postboard it eats the Disdainful strokes but the trigger is pretty commonly 4 or 5 cards on the stack...
The other really nice thing is having 4 big modulable daddies with the couple of ballistas as well. Flooding is pretty rewarded in this deck, as allowed by this other card:
- Wilderness reclamation. My first list was only splashing krasis but digging on web I saw a post about wilderness being a contender for U tron and my mind was blown. This is really cute, but take it seriously: it improves many cards in the deck. The counterspells shine because if you are a Tron player you know the big dilemma is playing daddy or keeping counterspell up , waiting for more mana to protect etc. This allows to put pressure and completely protect your board with 8 mana condescends instead of 2, or casting 2 counterspells, and this makes a real difference.
thirst for knowledge is also nuts with untapping. One nice thing is also Kefnet the Mindful. You guys underrate how nice in the format he is. He wrecks spirits/humans, is really hard to eat for non white decks and if you play paper opponents mess to understand him and often make mistakes. It pretty much keeps late game in check with double card drawing and becomes BONKERS with wilderness. Also note he can bounce your T west if you had to play it early.
Walking ballista becomes also really good with wilderness but the real deal is mindslaver. You can easily activate it the turn you play it, even without tron. slaver-Combo is easier to assemble so i'd like to put back treasure mage maybe... Academy ruins, Nimble obstructionist, cyclonic rift (i'm considering adding a second one to the main) also are really improved by Wilderness.
Of course the splash has downsides such as simic signet (i really wish there were simic talismans) since it can't cast map or dismember on T2. Helps casting krasis though.
Sideboard offers nice inclusion with Thragtusk as a really nice addition, tempoes aggro for 2 turns which is awesome in U tron; nature's claim deals nicely with bad MU such as affinity and many cards like stony silence or damp sphere..
Any thoughts are welcome. Cheers!
Storm is probably one of our best matchups so I agree you just weren't playing it right. Most of the time I find myself playing very hard control. Just counter all the key stuff, gifts ungiven, and creatures. They have a hard time winning after that. One thing I found really helpful to learn how to play against storm, is to play ~50 games of storm to learn how it really operates. You'll learn when they are bluffing or ritual spamming to try and just get there. Do this with proxies or your free online platform of choice (I use xmage). However with this hard control you just can't try to counter everything. A 2/2 ballista or even just treasure/trinket/snapcaster mage beats has won me games against storm. You just need to learn when you can go shields down (even just partially) to get a threat in and start actually winning the game.
If you want more game versus elves, I'd suggest going up to 3 walking ballista in the main. The card is nuts versus any creature deck. Even just 2 of them along with your EE will suffice. I'm currently playing 3 dismember in the mainboard and Never find they are bad. If you can slip in one into your main I would highly recommend it.
With 2 dredge, phoenix and storm, I don't know how your sideboard looks but if you wanted to play a Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus in the main it wouldn't hurt you. With that much graveyard recursion it might actually just be right to try that. Maybe even 2 relics, they are less dead versus the non graveyard decks because they draw cards if you can't pitch them to thirst.
I'm a huge fan of thought-knot seer and play 3 in my board. Its amazing versus Tron and Storm in that meta.
My Sideboard is:
2x Surgical Extraction (waiting for them to arrive, so they weren't ready for FNM)
3x Dismember
3x Spatial Contortion
2x Spreading Seas
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Spell Pierce
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Sundering Titan (a placeholder really, I don't see what I'd hit with it in this meta)
I cut the Platinum Angel from the maindeck because it seems only good against Elves and even that is not a sure thing, and put in a Tormod's Crypt. I'll test it first and then switch to Relic if I find it lacking. My logic with this is that Relic is a bit slower and the alternative of sniping for one per turn is not as good against the likes of Dredge/Phoenix as it is against midrange i.e. that when I'll want to deal with the GY I'll want it now. Maybe that's not correct, testing will show.
The Titan will go as well, much as I like him, leaving 2 slots.
I only have one Ballista, but yes, the thing is amazing. Still not sure what is cuttable for Dismember, I'm so loath to ditch the occasional value Mindslaver, although you're probably right.
Is baby Karn good in a meta like this, I'm quite uncertain about him. Solemn too.
Your sideboard seems solid, I agree with cutting the Titan. You just go up to the full 4 spatial contortion or the third spreading seas.
I know a lot of people are high on gemstone caverns but "stealing the play" at cost of a card is kinda meh to me. A crucible of worlds or another land destruction land could also hedge against Tron too.
spell snare is also a really fun card to have against storm too.