I’ve been wondering for a while if the second tutor effect should be trinket mage, treasure mage or fabricate. For now I’m using trinket to get all our great small 1 ofs. The body is just too relevant.
Also I hear U tron just down 8th at a GP? That’s pretty good right.
I’ve been wondering for a while if the second tutor effect should be trinket mage, treasure mage or fabricate. For now I’m using trinket to get all our great small 1 ofs. The body is just too relevant.
Also I hear U tron just down 8th at a GP? That’s pretty good right.
Both utilize "Traditional" style lists, with little Karn and Talismans.
Now, we just need more of those types of finishes so we know there is some consistency in the power of the deck in this meta, rather than "luck", "dodging", or any other excuse we can come up with.
Played mono u tron today since I drafted uma on Friday. I went 2-1, 2-1 vs dredge 0-2 vs UB mill and 2-0 vs living end. Only 3 rounds since we started up with 5 (Sundays are very hit or miss) Grafdigger's Cage was the stand out card this week. Side note I've been having of trouble beating mill if anyone has any tips in this match up I'd greatly appreciate it.
I've Found mill to be an utterly abysmal matchup. If you are playing chalice that can help, its probably not worth packing cards for imo though. Line up your counterspells right, Nimble obstructionist if you are playing it can stop field of ruins and qhost quarters from forcing you to shuffle.
Has anyone tried Warping Wail? I'm playing 2 main deck right now just to get a feeling for the card. Let's look at the different modes first:
...
What did you swap out for the Wails?
I like your analysis and the idea. I had tried the card in the past, main board, and side. I was running a different list at that time, but your analysis and laying out the cards it hits, I could see swapping it in for the Spatials I have in the main. I feel as though I'm typically targeting the creatures you listed with a Spatial, anyway, so may as well use card that has additional utility.
Obviously, the big downside is there are a number of creatures that Wail won't hit and, some of those listed, as you also note, can get out of range through triggers, like Prowess.
I like the idea though and will test it out to see what my personal thoughts are.
I've Found mill to be an utterly abysmal matchup. If you are playing chalice that can help, its probably not worth packing cards for imo though. Line up your counterspells right, Nimble obstructionist if you are playing it can stop field of ruins and qhost quarters from forcing you to shuffle.
i have yet to get a nimble obstructionist so ill definitely be getting one to try out. but ive noticed it can be a difficult match up putting down a clock is hard with them (at least in my lgs) running fatal push main.
Has anyone tried Warping Wail? I'm playing 2 main deck right now just to get a feeling for the card. Let's look at the different modes first:
...
What did you swap out for the Wails?
I like your analysis and the idea. I had tried the card in the past, main board, and side. I was running a different list at that time, but your analysis and laying out the cards it hits, I could see swapping it in for the Spatials I have in the main. I feel as though I'm typically targeting the creatures you listed with a Spatial, anyway, so may as well use card that has additional utility.
Obviously, the big downside is there are a number of creatures that Wail won't hit and, some of those listed, as you also note, can get out of range through triggers, like Prowess.
I like the idea though and will test it out to see what my personal thoughts are.
i run one main warping wail and its come in handy in a good amount of match ups granted i dont play as often as id like so i dont play many matchs. the counter and exile are really nice. very happy with the card
You can early map for academy ruins and hope. I've also found it pretty difficult when I've played it against it online. It's such a low meta percentage that I've never tried to beat it. I play the full 4 walking ballista and even just a 2/2 or ,3/3 and pumping it with your Mana everyturn might do it.
I've Found mill to be an utterly abysmal matchup. If you are playing chalice that can help, its probably not worth packing cards for imo though. Line up your counterspells right, Nimble obstructionist if you are playing it can stop field of ruins and qhost quarters from forcing you to shuffle.
i have yet to get a nimble obstructionist so ill definitely be getting one to try out. but ive noticed it can be a difficult match up putting down a clock is hard with them (at least in my lgs) running fatal push main.
Are we talking true mill or lantern style mill? I don't have much experience with UB Mill, having only played the matchup once or twice. From my recollection, it was a free win. HOWEVER, there can be significant variance in the UB Mill deck construction, as, from my experience at least, it is a "pet" deck that guys tailor to their personal style. Don't counter the small mill cards and don't search your library, unless you have counter mana up for the Archive Trap.
Lantern mill I have played several times and find that to be a semi-favorable matchup as well. Commit // Memory is a great card for either matchup, "true/traditional" mill and lantern. For lantern, either establish an early creature board or get Chalice out on 1. Alternatively, commit to the bounce / draw game to dig for an Ugin or Slaver, especially if Ensnaring Bridge is established.
I've Found mill to be an utterly abysmal matchup. If you are playing chalice that can help, its probably not worth packing cards for imo though. Line up your counterspells right, Nimble obstructionist if you are playing it can stop field of ruins and qhost quarters from forcing you to shuffle.
i have yet to get a nimble obstructionist so ill definitely be getting one to try out. but ive noticed it can be a difficult match up putting down a clock is hard with them (at least in my lgs) running fatal push main.
Are we talking true mill or lantern style mill? I don't have much experience with UB Mill, having only played the matchup once or twice. From my recollection, it was a free win. HOWEVER, there can be significant variance in the UB Mill deck construction, as, from my experience at least, it is a "pet" deck that guys tailor to their personal style. Don't counter the small mill cards and don't search your library, unless you have counter mana up for the Archive Trap.
Lantern mill I have played several times and find that to be a semi-favorable matchup as well. Commit // Memory is a great card for either matchup, "true/traditional" mill and lantern. For lantern, either establish an early creature board or get Chalice out on 1. Alternatively, commit to the bounce / draw game to dig for an Ugin or Slaver, especially if Ensnaring Bridge is established.
Lantern isnt bad I haven't had too many issues with it but UB mill just wrecks me for some reason. We have 2 mill players on occasion but one of them exclusively plays it but it seems like I get matched with him every week lol. I need to actually keep notes so I can figure out why I lose to it
...
Lantern isnt bad I haven't had too many issues with it but UB mill just wrecks me for some reason. We have 2 mill players on occasion but one of them exclusively plays it but it seems like I get matched with him every week lol. I need to actually keep notes so I can figure out why I lose to it
Take a look at a UB Mill decklist or, depending on how friendly the guy(s) is/are at your store, take a look at their decks and talk to them or figure out what cards you need to worry about.
As I said in a previous post, if you're going to Expedition Map, transmute Tolaria West, tutor with a Mage, you better have counter magic in hand with sufficient mana ready to go.
I think the big issue you and others may have with mill is the assumed speed of the deck. It can feel like you're drowning when you get milled 20 cards in one turn. Just remember, it's not the fastest deck in the format. It can't overwhelm you with creatures like an aggro deck, so the battlefield plane shouldn't be too worrisome for you, so when it's the choice between bouncing/killing a creature and having mana for countering a mill spell, counter. The actual process of milling is very unlikely to occur by T4, so you have time to stabilize and get something going in most games. Don't lose your head is what I'm saying and make hasty decision because you incorrectly assume you're hosed.
Take a look at a UB Mill decklist or, depending on how friendly the guy(s) is/are at your store, take a look at their decks and talk to them or figure out what cards you need to worry about.
As I said in a previous post, if you're going to Expedition Map, transmute Tolaria West, tutor with a Mage, you better have counter magic in hand with sufficient mana ready to go.
I think the big issue you and others may have with mill is the assumed speed of the deck. It can feel like you're drowning when you get milled 20 cards in one turn. Just remember, it's not the fastest deck in the format. It can't overwhelm you with creatures like an aggro deck, so the battlefield plane shouldn't be too worrisome for you, so when it's the choice between bouncing/killing a creature and having mana for countering a mill spell, counter. The actual process of milling is very unlikely to occur by T4, so you have time to stabilize and get something going in most games. Don't lose your head is what I'm saying and make hasty decision because you incorrectly assume you're hosed.
luckily everyone at my lgs is generally nice ive have looked at their decks before. hopefully i get to play it again this week thanks for the help!
New style of mill is difficult. Watch please latest stream of hareruya player sqlut on twitch. After sideboard no creatures, no artifacts and a lot of dead cards for you like repeal, oblivion stone, even ugin. How he wins? 6-7 surgicals and extirpate + mission briefings take all your lands and win cons so you give up or draw useless cards. Chalice and gravehate you need. It is important to knew how your friend is sideboarding. Did he play surgicals main? Creatures after side? If surgical main, so new style and after side he bring in extirpate,artifacts and creatures comes out. Archive trap for 0 + mission briefing for 2 + archive trap for 0 is hard too. Field of ruin force you to search. You will have a hard time getting ever 6 lands
Just wanted to post a quick tournament report. Recent 4-0 in about a 30 man Monday Night Modern tournament. Matched against the following: Temur Goyf Tempo, Storm, Green Tron, Mono Red Phoenix.
Here are some thoughts about how individual pieces performed.
Trinket Mage: Originally I was skeptical of using him. This is actually the first time that I have had him in the deck. Other possibilities were fabricate or another treasure mage. He was better than I thought he would be. Against tokens the EE was a huge grab. Finding expedition map was usually a great decision; either to find tron lands or field of ruin against tron in the psuedo mirror. Against graveyard I was able to find Tormod's crypt out of the sideboard. If I needed a finisher walking ballista was a decent target to find too. Overall I will keep him going forward.
Karn, Scion of Urza: He came out in all of my match ups. Even against the fastet decks I played his ability is very strong. He acts as a distraction for our opponents. His token making also ends up being relevant if you have used maps, talismans, or multiple of the tokens on the field. Will definitely keep him around even if I don't move the artifact count up much.
Tolaria West: Proved its worth time and time again. Finding the last tron piece, academy ruins, EE, academy ruins, tormod's crypt. If you think of it as a 50/50 land tutor the ETB tapped clause hurts a lot less. Its essentially land number 24 which is always a flex spot anyways.
x2 River of Tears: I used a second tears in place of oboro. I didn't miss the oboro much and I figure with 4 phyrexian mana cards in the sb plus the ability to play EE for 2 it seemed good. Didn't hurt me and I think I will continue to use these going forward.
[]Sundering Titan[] vs []Platinum Angel[]: The sundering titan pulled huge work for me against the goyf deck. It was pretty dead vs tron and storm however. I'm still not sure which is the right one to pick. Titan can definitely get you ahead more, but angel is almost never dead game one. Very open to input about this choice.
[]Engineered Explosives[]: In the MB this cards was ok. I imagine if I had played against more creature aggro decks it would have shined more. Today it didn't help me much but for now it probably stays. Alternatively, the second walking ballista from the SB could be swapped for this since its always at least decent.
[]Surgical Extraction[]: This was an MVP out of the SB. It was live in almost every match up. Targeting a tron land after ghost quarter, hitting key combo piece against storm, locking out phoenix and other graveyard combos. Two feels great in the SB.
If anyone has any questions about match up specifics or wants to discuss specific card choices I'm all ears! The deck felt great and proved again if you know know how to pilot its the best tron.
How was the match versus the phoenix deck? I have yet to play against it and would like a little insight on your approach?
Also I've been a huge fan of walking ballista, you should definitely try more in the main deck. For the sundering titan vs platinum angel, if you are going to play one I think angel is probably more live in this current modern meta, but i've just been jamming 3 wurmcoils instead.
I played against a mono red phoenix deck. It played similarly to a burn style deck. In this case a chalice on 1 pretty much sealed game one. I think tormods cypt and surgical extraction were pretty good game two. Both for stopping the phoenix and shrinking the graveyard for reveler. Wurmcoil is obviously key.
@topath118 I really like your list! It fits perfectly to the idea I have of the deck.
Against which decks is it tuned for?
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! The lists are always changing based on your local meta. Like I mentioned in my little write up Sundering Titan is a concession to the abundance of three color decks at my local store. If there were a significant number of lantern, combo, or decks low on removal I would consider the platinum angel instead. My list is definitely stronger vs graveyard with the surgical extractions and tormod's crypt. If there were a ton of burn I might consider some bottle gnomes in the sideboard. I've also seen some lists go above four pieces of removal (dismember and spatial contortion) I just never felt like I need to bring that many in from the SB.
On another note I've tried the bloody rabbit midrange deck. I think its a valid way to play the deck. Personally, I prefer the more reactive, draw go, toolbox style with the tutors (trinket and treasure) and a plethora of silver bullets. I feel like it gives me game against more decks where the midrange version might be stronger vs other midrange decks and maybe fast aggro.
On another note I've tried the bloody rabbit midrange deck. I think its a valid way to play the deck. Personally, I prefer the more reactive, draw go, toolbox style with the tutors (trinket and treasure) and a plethora of silver bullets. I feel like it gives me game against more decks where the midrange version might be stronger vs other midrange decks and maybe fast aggro.
Could i see this Deck list
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Also I hear U tron just down 8th at a GP? That’s pretty good right.
Yes, there were two top 8 finishes at SCG IQs back in September ( https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1353909#paper ; https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1497741#paper ). Smaller events than GPs, but still not something to discount.
Both utilize "Traditional" style lists, with little Karn and Talismans.
Now, we just need more of those types of finishes so we know there is some consistency in the power of the deck in this meta, rather than "luck", "dodging", or any other excuse we can come up with.
What did you swap out for the Wails?
I like your analysis and the idea. I had tried the card in the past, main board, and side. I was running a different list at that time, but your analysis and laying out the cards it hits, I could see swapping it in for the Spatials I have in the main. I feel as though I'm typically targeting the creatures you listed with a Spatial, anyway, so may as well use card that has additional utility.
Obviously, the big downside is there are a number of creatures that Wail won't hit and, some of those listed, as you also note, can get out of range through triggers, like Prowess.
I like the idea though and will test it out to see what my personal thoughts are.
i have yet to get a nimble obstructionist so ill definitely be getting one to try out. but ive noticed it can be a difficult match up putting down a clock is hard with them (at least in my lgs) running fatal push main.
i run one main warping wail and its come in handy in a good amount of match ups granted i dont play as often as id like so i dont play many matchs. the counter and exile are really nice. very happy with the card
Are we talking true mill or lantern style mill? I don't have much experience with UB Mill, having only played the matchup once or twice. From my recollection, it was a free win. HOWEVER, there can be significant variance in the UB Mill deck construction, as, from my experience at least, it is a "pet" deck that guys tailor to their personal style. Don't counter the small mill cards and don't search your library, unless you have counter mana up for the Archive Trap.
Lantern mill I have played several times and find that to be a semi-favorable matchup as well. Commit // Memory is a great card for either matchup, "true/traditional" mill and lantern. For lantern, either establish an early creature board or get Chalice out on 1. Alternatively, commit to the bounce / draw game to dig for an Ugin or Slaver, especially if Ensnaring Bridge is established.
Lantern isnt bad I haven't had too many issues with it but UB mill just wrecks me for some reason. We have 2 mill players on occasion but one of them exclusively plays it but it seems like I get matched with him every week lol. I need to actually keep notes so I can figure out why I lose to it
Take a look at a UB Mill decklist or, depending on how friendly the guy(s) is/are at your store, take a look at their decks and talk to them or figure out what cards you need to worry about.
Usually, the big mill spells are: Archive Trap, Mind Funeral, and Glimpse the Unthinkable. Counter them.
As I said in a previous post, if you're going to Expedition Map, transmute Tolaria West, tutor with a Mage, you better have counter magic in hand with sufficient mana ready to go.
The mill creatures: Hedron Crab and Manic Scribe, just kill or bounce as able.
I think the big issue you and others may have with mill is the assumed speed of the deck. It can feel like you're drowning when you get milled 20 cards in one turn. Just remember, it's not the fastest deck in the format. It can't overwhelm you with creatures like an aggro deck, so the battlefield plane shouldn't be too worrisome for you, so when it's the choice between bouncing/killing a creature and having mana for countering a mill spell, counter. The actual process of milling is very unlikely to occur by T4, so you have time to stabilize and get something going in most games. Don't lose your head is what I'm saying and make hasty decision because you incorrectly assume you're hosed.
luckily everyone at my lgs is generally nice ive have looked at their decks before. hopefully i get to play it again this week thanks for the help!
The following was my decklist:
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Sundering Titan
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Trinket Mage
1 Treasure Mage
Spells (17)
4 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Remand
3 Repeal
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ugin, The spirit Dragon
4 Expedition Map
2 Mindslaver
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Talisman of Dominance
1 Oblivion Stone
Lands (24)
6 Island
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruins
2 River of Tears
12 Tron Lands
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Walking Ballista
2 Spell Snare
1 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Dismember
1 Tormod's Crypt
Here are some thoughts about how individual pieces performed.
Trinket Mage: Originally I was skeptical of using him. This is actually the first time that I have had him in the deck. Other possibilities were fabricate or another treasure mage. He was better than I thought he would be. Against tokens the EE was a huge grab. Finding expedition map was usually a great decision; either to find tron lands or field of ruin against tron in the psuedo mirror. Against graveyard I was able to find Tormod's crypt out of the sideboard. If I needed a finisher walking ballista was a decent target to find too. Overall I will keep him going forward.
Karn, Scion of Urza: He came out in all of my match ups. Even against the fastet decks I played his ability is very strong. He acts as a distraction for our opponents. His token making also ends up being relevant if you have used maps, talismans, or multiple of the tokens on the field. Will definitely keep him around even if I don't move the artifact count up much.
Tolaria West: Proved its worth time and time again. Finding the last tron piece, academy ruins, EE, academy ruins, tormod's crypt. If you think of it as a 50/50 land tutor the ETB tapped clause hurts a lot less. Its essentially land number 24 which is always a flex spot anyways.
x2 River of Tears: I used a second tears in place of oboro. I didn't miss the oboro much and I figure with 4 phyrexian mana cards in the sb plus the ability to play EE for 2 it seemed good. Didn't hurt me and I think I will continue to use these going forward.
[]Sundering Titan[] vs []Platinum Angel[]: The sundering titan pulled huge work for me against the goyf deck. It was pretty dead vs tron and storm however. I'm still not sure which is the right one to pick. Titan can definitely get you ahead more, but angel is almost never dead game one. Very open to input about this choice.
[]Engineered Explosives[]: In the MB this cards was ok. I imagine if I had played against more creature aggro decks it would have shined more. Today it didn't help me much but for now it probably stays. Alternatively, the second walking ballista from the SB could be swapped for this since its always at least decent.
[]Surgical Extraction[]: This was an MVP out of the SB. It was live in almost every match up. Targeting a tron land after ghost quarter, hitting key combo piece against storm, locking out phoenix and other graveyard combos. Two feels great in the SB.
If anyone has any questions about match up specifics or wants to discuss specific card choices I'm all ears! The deck felt great and proved again if you know know how to pilot its the best tron.
Also I've been a huge fan of walking ballista, you should definitely try more in the main deck. For the sundering titan vs platinum angel, if you are going to play one I think angel is probably more live in this current modern meta, but i've just been jamming 3 wurmcoils instead.
Against which decks is it tuned for?
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! The lists are always changing based on your local meta. Like I mentioned in my little write up Sundering Titan is a concession to the abundance of three color decks at my local store. If there were a significant number of lantern, combo, or decks low on removal I would consider the platinum angel instead. My list is definitely stronger vs graveyard with the surgical extractions and tormod's crypt. If there were a ton of burn I might consider some bottle gnomes in the sideboard. I've also seen some lists go above four pieces of removal (dismember and spatial contortion) I just never felt like I need to bring that many in from the SB.
On another note I've tried the bloody rabbit midrange deck. I think its a valid way to play the deck. Personally, I prefer the more reactive, draw go, toolbox style with the tutors (trinket and treasure) and a plethora of silver bullets. I feel like it gives me game against more decks where the midrange version might be stronger vs other midrange decks and maybe fast aggro.
Could i see this Deck list