So I brought this to a modern FNM last Friday and went 3-0-1 draw for top and aplit prizes. Beat humans, wizards, and Chord combo. Cord was by far the harder matchup, not that any of those were easy. Every game I play Walking Ballista seems to come up as the big clutch card every time.
After this tournament I decided to make a cpl changes. I took the 1 crucible out of the main. I have yet to have it come up as important. So I took that slot and added a supreme will.
Also made some board changes. I opened up 2 slots to try and add room for 2 Time Stop. Not sure how good this will be but I want to try it. It gets around things that cant be countered and triggers on cast plus adds an RFG variable. Could be too slow and clunky but we will find out.
Definetly the more I play this, as its my only deck for modern, the stronger I feel it is. I rarely smoke anyone and seem to live right on the edge most games, but its rare I don't feel like I'm dictating the game.
After my next tournament ill repost my list and how the changes are working out.
Dropping a thrist for a Gift ungiven is probably the best thing i could do. Whithout talismans the artifact count is a bit low, and generally an instant speed Gift that resolves is most of the times a free win.
Sry but I can't figure out how to use gifts. What would you search with it?
I wouldn't use gifts in this deck TBH. Thirst for knowledge and oppressive will are more than enough dig ive found. Especially given all the cantrip and deck manipulation. It would take a very specific set of criteria to work effectively
You can always fetch a mindslaver (or any artifact wincon) to either your hand or your graveyard to recur w/ academy ruins, which helps speed up your inevitability.
We run so many 1-ofs that an instant-speed gifts can almost always get us what we want for the next turn. Examples:
Ugin/Ostone/Cyc Rift/EE for wipes
Slaver/Ugin/Ballista/Wurmcoil for wincons
Condescend/Supreme Will/Remand/Snappy for counters
Map/Twest/Snappy/Slaver for Academy Ruins (note: doesn’t guarantee the Ruins, but you can guarantee any other two cards as an alternative)
Repeal/Dismember/Cyc Rift/Snappy for bounce/removal
Obviously all of these depend on your deck, the matchup and the board state. Wurmcoil is bad in some matchups where sundering titan is better (like jeskai), so you’d switch those. I run a spell burst, so I usually get that over remand.
I find the crucible/buried ruin package to be a bit too slow. We can win in other ways, and the opportunity cost of the colorless land over a blue source isn’t worth it to me.
As far as gifts winning the game on resolve... if we end-step it and untap with tron, usually, if we hardcast it t4, it’s just a good card. That said, it is a really good value card and I would recommend testing with it at least some.
I don't play any and don't issues except from the most busted of starts. Having better low cmc answers is more advantageous than hoping to have gemstone in your opener. I have 3 dismember in the main and 2 spell snare for this reason. I've been tempted to just jam all 4 dismembers in the main.
Currently I've been having a lot of success with spellskite as a 2 of in the side. Bringing them in vs boggles, infect or any voltron type decks is an instant win. Also complicates things for combo decks such as scapeshift / adnaseum as everyting is on the stack. What are your guys thoughts.
Why are you not running surgicals? They strike me as rather good against bridgevine, are they really too slow? Besides they have applications vs Tron, KCI, Scapeshift and other combo decks.
I don't like relic because I want my graveyard I used {card]tormod's cyrpt[/card] over it in the past because I can loop it.
I have a surgical but I am not exactly a fan, more necessary evil. Its great against combo but the more generic grave hate you can side in against control and midrange. So we have moved away from grafdiggers cage then?
For storm you basically wait until they cast past in flames then remove their graveyard also try to counter the first ritual and kill the creatures over advancing your game plan. You still need to close the game though so at some point you'll have to take a risk. They can wait to bounce your cage before going off so it isn't a lock out.
I also obtained a crucible with its reprinting I am not sure how to configre the sideboard, I was using [card]spreading seas[/cards] as my land hate in the side but crucible wants tec edge/ghost quarter.
To get the necessary level of hate in the sideboard we need at least 4x gravehate and 4x land hate probably want 4x aggro hate (but you can play some main) then you have 3 slots left. Our inherent game plan should be pretty good against midrange and control, grave and land hate are useful in these much ups, I would only want cards that overlap in usefulness here. Note Deathshadow is a bad match up and GB packs enough land hate to concern me.
One of the cards that kicks my arse out of blue decks is ceremonious rejection makes me consider playing a big blue win con but most are too blue intensive.
I guess the question is who do we want to just lose to? because its impossible to have enough hate and its better to just sufficiently hate 50% of the format than insufficiently hate 75% of it because you'll still lose...
I have re-started to play the deck again after playing UW for 2 months (maybe more).
Could someone give me some advice against storm? I felt like the matchup is unwinnable today and I haven't seen the deck too much in my local store; so I lack a sense of when should I crack the relic or surgical something. (most useful sb against them I'm using: relic, surgical, grafdigger's cage and nimble obstructionist, also with the usual 4 contortions)
Also, I bought a crucible and I plan to use it in SB, at least against UW control it seems useful, but it can also be used to destroy manabases. I'll use it with a tectonic in SB, could anyone tell me the type of matchups where you definitely need to side them in?
Bant spirits seems similar to merfolk unblockable threats with a stack of lords. They have higher toughness which makes walking ballista worse against them and hexproof and counterspells are good against targeted removal.
However, they do not attack our lands so turbo slamming Ugin, the spirit dragon seems good against them they are also slower than other modern aggro decks so we have more time. I have used Aetherize against decks like spirits in the past they reset the board relatively slowly, it gives you a lot of time against all their 2-3 drops
Ya, I actually have 3 Aetherize in the board for this matchup, plus they are also decent against bridgevine and hallowed one, but it still seems like not enough. I was hoping to not have to rely on a Ugin as a must have to win out. Also I haven't played against it a ton, maybe a couple more matches against it and ill get the feel
How do people find platinum angel? I can only think of one time where it sort-of won me the game vs a spirits deck where I had game 1 angel and chalice on one which earned a concession from my opponent - but I probably would have won anyways with chalice on one and any big body.
But in theory I guess its an out to all sorts of nonsense that goes on in modern - the fast decks that eschew removal for consistency like infect, bogles, mill and whatnot. It's not useful vs storm and I think even a deck like ad nauseum will have one bounce spell or a slaughter pact to knock it out while comboing.
The main alternative I would run instead would be myr battlesphere I think (I put sundering titan in the board - found it too mediocre way too often). I suppose its all meta dependent in a way, but which card would you say shores up more bad matches:
So for the last few weeks I've been doing a lot of tinkering with my version of BlueTron. I've had some things i feel work really well and some that have been sub par and changed. I'm going to play modern tonight and Friday in prep for a PPTQ and here is what I'm going into it with. Let me know what you think.
I am well aware i am running some non typical things but that's what play testing and experimenting is all about. I bumped up the Wurmcoil and Ballista because they keep coming up all star and really put the hurt on aggro. The spell pierce in the main continues to be a great equalizer and helps stabilize the game faster. The supreme will i have liked but I've waffled back and forth between 2 and 3 copies. I did also try some experimenting with steel hellkite. It played well but the permanent destruction never really came into play and he was just a solid beater.
Some observations I've had playing this deck: Although the deck does a lot of nice cantrip, there's almost nothing generating real card advantage. What this deck wouldn't give to have a card like Fact or fiction. I'm not sure if there is a decent solution for that. Maybe i could try running a pair of jace, the mind sculptor. if anyone has tried that id love some input. Also i have a real love hate relationship with the Chalice of the void 2x main. Sometimes it comes up absolutely DOPE, and others it feels like a wasted card.
I strongly recommend spell burst. It is a soft lock in a lot of cases once Tron is online and is serviceable early on if needed.
From above list what is time stop for? And why ostone in the board instead of the main? It's a pretty versatile removal spell.
In general I don't get tec edge main over field of ruin. We are not a mana denial deck so destroying one mana source seems like who cares, meanwhile field can help us access coloured mana.
Two slavers is the other headscratcher. If something happens to the first one you ruins it anyways to get the lock. You're rarely in a rush to draw it in any case. If you want a second copy treasure mage seems more logical since it'll block early and can get wurmcoil vs burn etc
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I was trying the time stop against combo and other control. It was a nice idea but had so so results. The 2nd mind slaver has been really valuable. Tbh on the tec edge, I just need to get a field of ruin lol.
Two slavers is not unusual, ijust don't get it personally. If you want to see it more reliably treasure mage is a virtual second copy that does other things too. If you're worried something will happen to the first one you can ruins it back, which is a card you want for the lock anyways. I guess if there's some scenario where slaver is your only win conditions and it gets exiled then yeah you'd need a second one but that seems very fringe. It could get hit with relic or thought knot sure, but also being your only way to win? Seems unlikely
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
In most of those situations whatever happened to the first one is just as likely to happen to the second. Ooze, counter, etc. I dont find I actually win that many games via slaver anyways so the idea of needing a redundant copy seems bizarre. If there was a common one of that id say a second copy would be good more often than not itd be ugin. He cant be tutored by a mage or recurred by ruins, and sometimes you need to discard to thirst early on just to stay afloat - then later end up wishing you had one.
More often than not I find a straight ten mana slaver is a time warp and a two-for-one. Often its a ten mana time warp and nothing else. I think the best I did recently was make a guy flashback grudge on a clue token, cast nissa steward of elements for zero, ewit with no return and fetch fail to find. More often its like - cast a spell into my condescend for zero run a manland into my blocker and tap you out.
Its far more often on the low-middle end than the high; so not an effect im often wishing to execute as a one-shot
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
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After this tournament I decided to make a cpl changes. I took the 1 crucible out of the main. I have yet to have it come up as important. So I took that slot and added a supreme will.
Also made some board changes. I opened up 2 slots to try and add room for 2 Time Stop. Not sure how good this will be but I want to try it. It gets around things that cant be countered and triggers on cast plus adds an RFG variable. Could be too slow and clunky but we will find out.
Definetly the more I play this, as its my only deck for modern, the stronger I feel it is. I rarely smoke anyone and seem to live right on the edge most games, but its rare I don't feel like I'm dictating the game.
After my next tournament ill repost my list and how the changes are working out.
Sry but I can't figure out how to use gifts. What would you search with it?
Some people like to search for Crucible of Worlds, Buried Ruin, Academy Ruins and Mindslaver to assemble Mindslaver lock. Feels somewhat clunky though...
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
You can always fetch a mindslaver (or any artifact wincon) to either your hand or your graveyard to recur w/ academy ruins, which helps speed up your inevitability.
We run so many 1-ofs that an instant-speed gifts can almost always get us what we want for the next turn. Examples:
Ugin/Ostone/Cyc Rift/EE for wipes
Slaver/Ugin/Ballista/Wurmcoil for wincons
Condescend/Supreme Will/Remand/Snappy for counters
Map/Twest/Snappy/Slaver for Academy Ruins (note: doesn’t guarantee the Ruins, but you can guarantee any other two cards as an alternative)
Repeal/Dismember/Cyc Rift/Snappy for bounce/removal
Obviously all of these depend on your deck, the matchup and the board state. Wurmcoil is bad in some matchups where sundering titan is better (like jeskai), so you’d switch those. I run a spell burst, so I usually get that over remand.
I find the crucible/buried ruin package to be a bit too slow. We can win in other ways, and the opportunity cost of the colorless land over a blue source isn’t worth it to me.
As far as gifts winning the game on resolve... if we end-step it and untap with tron, usually, if we hardcast it t4, it’s just a good card. That said, it is a really good value card and I would recommend testing with it at least some.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I have a surgical but I am not exactly a fan, more necessary evil. Its great against combo but the more generic grave hate you can side in against control and midrange. So we have moved away from grafdiggers cage then?
For storm you basically wait until they cast past in flames then remove their graveyard also try to counter the first ritual and kill the creatures over advancing your game plan. You still need to close the game though so at some point you'll have to take a risk. They can wait to bounce your cage before going off so it isn't a lock out.
I also obtained a crucible with its reprinting I am not sure how to configre the sideboard, I was using [card]spreading seas[/cards] as my land hate in the side but crucible wants tec edge/ghost quarter.
To get the necessary level of hate in the sideboard we need at least 4x gravehate and 4x land hate probably want 4x aggro hate (but you can play some main) then you have 3 slots left. Our inherent game plan should be pretty good against midrange and control, grave and land hate are useful in these much ups, I would only want cards that overlap in usefulness here. Note Deathshadow is a bad match up and GB packs enough land hate to concern me.
One of the cards that kicks my arse out of blue decks is ceremonious rejection makes me consider playing a big blue win con but most are too blue intensive.
I guess the question is who do we want to just lose to? because its impossible to have enough hate and its better to just sufficiently hate 50% of the format than insufficiently hate 75% of it because you'll still lose...
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
How does this compare to u/w control?
However, they do not attack our lands so turbo slamming Ugin, the spirit dragon seems good against them they are also slower than other modern aggro decks so we have more time. I have used Aetherize against decks like spirits in the past they reset the board relatively slowly, it gives you a lot of time against all their 2-3 drops
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
But in theory I guess its an out to all sorts of nonsense that goes on in modern - the fast decks that eschew removal for consistency like infect, bogles, mill and whatnot. It's not useful vs storm and I think even a deck like ad nauseum will have one bounce spell or a slaughter pact to knock it out while comboing.
The main alternative I would run instead would be myr battlesphere I think (I put sundering titan in the board - found it too mediocre way too often). I suppose its all meta dependent in a way, but which card would you say shores up more bad matches:
1) Platinum Angel
2) Myr BAttlesphere
3) Sundering Titan
(I play 2 wurmcoils, 1 balista and 1 gearhulk as my other big bodies)
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
9 Island
1 Tolaria West
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruin's
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
Artifacts
4 Expedition Map
2 Chalice of the void
3 Walking Ballista
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Mindslaver
4 Thirst for knowledge
3 Supreme will
3 Spell pierce
4 condescend
3 remand
3 repeal
2 cyclonic rift
3 Spatial Contortion
4 Spreading Seas
3 Aetherize
2 Timestop
1 Chalice of the void
1 Spell pierce
1 oblivion stone
I am well aware i am running some non typical things but that's what play testing and experimenting is all about. I bumped up the Wurmcoil and Ballista because they keep coming up all star and really put the hurt on aggro. The spell pierce in the main continues to be a great equalizer and helps stabilize the game faster. The supreme will i have liked but I've waffled back and forth between 2 and 3 copies. I did also try some experimenting with steel hellkite. It played well but the permanent destruction never really came into play and he was just a solid beater.
Some observations I've had playing this deck: Although the deck does a lot of nice cantrip, there's almost nothing generating real card advantage. What this deck wouldn't give to have a card like Fact or fiction. I'm not sure if there is a decent solution for that. Maybe i could try running a pair of jace, the mind sculptor. if anyone has tried that id love some input. Also i have a real love hate relationship with the Chalice of the void 2x main. Sometimes it comes up absolutely DOPE, and others it feels like a wasted card.
From above list what is time stop for? And why ostone in the board instead of the main? It's a pretty versatile removal spell.
In general I don't get tec edge main over field of ruin. We are not a mana denial deck so destroying one mana source seems like who cares, meanwhile field can help us access coloured mana.
Two slavers is the other headscratcher. If something happens to the first one you ruins it anyways to get the lock. You're rarely in a rush to draw it in any case. If you want a second copy treasure mage seems more logical since it'll block early and can get wurmcoil vs burn etc
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
More often than not I find a straight ten mana slaver is a time warp and a two-for-one. Often its a ten mana time warp and nothing else. I think the best I did recently was make a guy flashback grudge on a clue token, cast nissa steward of elements for zero, ewit with no return and fetch fail to find. More often its like - cast a spell into my condescend for zero run a manland into my blocker and tap you out.
Its far more often on the low-middle end than the high; so not an effect im often wishing to execute as a one-shot
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron