We don't like relic because we can't recur it and we have to leave up one mana to sac it.
Atm I am using Surgical extraction and grafdigger's cage because that seems to be the consensus best grave hate.
But I was using Tormod's Crypt before (if you have budget concerns) and it was actually really good, comes down before counterspells you can use it for free at instant speed. I actually brought it in against control decks and didn't feel bad about it.
hi guys, i had success with my mono blue list last saturday, although it was a 3v3 non unified in which our team lost entirely, i went 3-1 only lost against hatebears whichis obviously a bad matchup. below is my list.
2 - spellskite
1 - cyclonic rift
2 - echoing truth
3 - negate
3 - relic of progenitus
2 - jester's cap
1 - platinum angel
1 - emrakul, the promised end
1st match vs allies
the match was very unfavorable, but spending a lot of slot for removals for this kind of matchup is really worth it, plus,saved by treasure mage to torrential gearhulk, controlling the board state before landing wurmcoilswon 2 games.
2nd match with uw control
again, treasure mage to torrential gearhulk proved its effectiveness as it stalled the game ubtil wurmcoil engine tookover. spellskite then took its place sb game. won with 3 games.
3rd match with gw hatebears
lost pretty bad against this one, havinng all the land hate on that deck, lost with 3 games.
last round against 5c humans
best match ever,saved by spellskite in game 2. fullswing against my 4 land board state with spellskite and oblivion stone, blocked 1 creature and i was down 2. i have my 5th land at hand and activated oblivion stone on his next turn during combat. eot torrential gearhulk to memory saved the day. casting ugin, activating ugins ultimate and landing 2 wurmcoils, won with 2 games.
all in all, was happy about gearhulks as it can be fetched by treasure mage. can also be reccured from graveyard. compared to snap, it gives the opponent 4 turns. buy it now guys before its too late
Gearhulk and Snapcaster Mage have different roles. Snap can be played on turn two as a blocker, on turn three to recycle a Dismember and on turn four to recycle a Repeal. It can hit Condescend, which is crucial vs Combo and Big Mana. Gearhulk cover another spot.
while yes i do understand that you can cast snappy on an early turn to recycle spells,it does not really control the board state, and turn 2-4 you would have some spells handy. the main problem with tron is those 5th onward turn that we dont have threats on board. recycling dismember with snappy hurts you more than help you especially on an agro meta. plus you cant recur or search snappy with treasure mage.
Round 1: KCI 2-0
Game 1: I countered all his KCI and stronger combo pieces till I assembled the lock. I slavered him and he had infinite but I didn't know how to to do it, whoops.. so I got him into the worst possible spot. It gave him one turn but I had the lock my next turn.
IN: 3 Thought-knot seer, 2 surgical, 2 negate. OUT: - 3 Wurmcoil, 3 Dismember, 1 Map
note I should have just got rid of ugin instead of map but it didn't end up mattering.
Game 2: He tried to jam his kci turn 3 after playing a mindstone turn 2. I countered it and surgicaled the KCI. He kept jamming defence grids after i would Thought knot him. He tried to go off with out the kci and failed. a two turn clock with 2 tks on board finished it up.
note: I should learn how to play kci.. incase that happens again. I knew I had infinite with kci just didn't know how to do it. 1 kci, 2 opals, 2 trawlers and the retriever.. oh well.
Round 2: Kiki Evolution. 1-2
Game 1: I kept a hand that was disruptive and dismembered a tireless tracker on turn 3. I proceeded to draw only lands and the game was quickly over. He played resto the turn after I killed tracker blinking a kitchen finks. Then evolved the finks to get kiki-jiki and I died.
I didn't know how to sideboard to well but i figured it was like counters company as a creature based combo deck. He tended to commit more permanents to the board so i figured another sweeper that is effective turn 3 was fine.
IN: 1 dismember, 4 spatial contortion, 3 Thought-Knot Seer, 1 All is Dust. OUT: 2 Remand, 3 Wurmcoil Engine, 2 Map, 1 Field of Ruin, 1 Spell Snare.
Game 2: I kept a nice blue hand and countered most threats and removed the ones that got through. I left him with only mana dorks. He managed to get me down to 8 but then I mindslavered and drew academy ruins. Opp conceded when I played the ruins.
Game 3: This was a great game with tons of back and forth. I was dodging around his Bloodmoon affects and stony silence. I kept letting him commit permanents to the board when i was at 7 mana. When he evolutioned after attacking me to 4 I should have just overloaded the cyclonic rift in my hand. He got avalanche riders and I then needed to topdeck a land to survive. I think not playing it on the attack was a little greedy but the upside was kind of big.
Round 3: Storm 2-1
Game 1: My opponent hadn't played modern in a while and was borrowing the deck. I kept a natural tron hand with blue cards, no blue. Probably shoulda mulled to 6 but that night was the night of greedy hands/plays I guess. I had a million mana on turn 6 but wasn't dead and then my opp storms off, I make him play it out and he nearly fizzles but doesn't.
Game 2: turn 2 i dismemer his dude. and slam Thought-Knot the next turn. He doesn't have the mana for gifts and I take it. He does some shenanigans and flashsback a past in flames and has nothing to do with it. Concedes and we go to game 3.
Game 3: He Mulled to 6 and kept what looked like a risky hand. I had another very controlling hand. I had the Snare for his turn 2 creature. afterwords I had the condescend for his 2nd dude. I played Though-knot seer my turn 4. Took past in flames leave him with 2 rituals. He cast one, then manamorphose and and I surgicaled the ritual when he couldn't cast it. I kept on denying him mana even if a gifts ungiven got past. 4/4 beats did the job.
Felt like a good night, played mostly okay. I do think I punted against Kiki by being greedy but other than that the deck felt good. 4/6 decks were combo, me, and BW Taxes. KCI is very scary but It felt like most combo matches, don't tap low for your threats until you know you can without the opp winning on the crack back.
okay that makes sense for kiki. I don't think I can pick up a second ugin as my bugdet is tight but I might just drop the all is dust. I do like having the many diverse sweepers but I don't get to test often.
I honestly don't understand how this deck performs so well. Every time I've attempted to pilot it, I get steamrolled. It's obviously a good deck, or it wouldn't be putting up results, but it just never clicked for me.
Just played my second league with the deck! Had a blast and went 3-2
Match 1: 2-1 against Storm
Game 1 I land a chalice on 1 and Wurmcoil gets me there before they can storm off
Game 2 was absolutely insane. I got stormed out after having a chalice on 1 and 2 due to (I forget the name) a 3 mana split second bounce target
permanent
Game 3 I landed a chalice on 1 Wurmcoil and TKS beats brought it home
Match 2: 2-1 against UR Thing in the Ice
Game 1: I got blindsided by double mutagenic growth
Game 2: Kill his TiTis and Wurmcoil ends the game
Game 3: Stabilize at 1 life after an Ugin wipes out 2 TiTis and my opponent concedes
Match 3: 2-0 Agains UWR Control
Game 1: Chalice on 1 gave way to Wurmcoil beats
Game 2: TKS on turn 4 that I protected as it swung in 5 times
Game 4: BR Hollow one 0-2
Game 1: Turn 1 Hollow One into Turn 2 Pheonix, and Angler
Game 2: Pretty much same as the first game
Game 5: UW Control 1-2
Game 1: I play the waiting game until I land a karn which ends up taking over the game with his constructs
Game 2: I misplay and let him resolve a T4 Jace which I'm never able to do anything about
Game 4: I lose the counter war and a Teferi makes the game unwinnable.
So this was my second league with the deck and I already felt myself improve. I always, however, struggle in the UW control match up. It just seems that they have twice as many counterspells as us, and that we can't interact with the walkers once the land. I was thanking of adding an Ulamog to the SB for this sort of match up. Thoughts? Also Hollow One feels like a terrible match up. This is my list:
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
7 Island
1 Field of Ruin
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Expedition Map
3 Talisman of Dominance
1 Thought Knot Seer
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Treasure Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Mindslaver
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Angel
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Walking Ballista
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Remand
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dismember
Sideboard
2 Spreading Seas
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Thought Knot Seer
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Dismember
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Negate
How does sundering titan preform? I dropped it after a few games because I found opponents had a lot of nonbasic it couldn't hurt and I'd often eat one of my islands and just one or two of their lands in exchange. Then of they path it I lose another island which can be harsh.
It looks like shoktroopa runs it over platinum angel? I can only think of two times angel helped me either tbh one being humans where I just prayed they wouldn't cavern in a reflector so that barely counts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
My 2 cents:
Sunderu is better against midrange/control and Platz is better against aggro/some combo/some prison. We struggle with aggro, so the Angel is the natural choice. However, when Titan resolves against Jeskai Control or Jund, it's game over more often than not, but in all matchups Angel mostly stalls until we can find a true finisher- it folds to path, double bolt, reflector mage, dismember, Kcommand, ancient grudge, etc. The only decks off the top of my head that can't beat resolved angel are ad nauseam and lantern control, and that's only pre-board. For that reason, I'm running with Sunderu right now, although if you play paper it's a meta call for sure.
Also, whichever one (or ones) you play, they will be boarded out often. They're narrow. Sometimes they don't do anything. If that doesn't appeal to you, it's totally valid to play neither.
Yeah I was thinking of removing angel because it seems like it won't beat many decks, only stall them while you try to find an actual endgame. Storm can grapeshot it, valakuts can ping it, KCI can spellbomb it, even stuff like vizier company can ballista it. So as an anti combo card it looks pretty narrow. I don't know how good it is vs merfolk or burn , maybe it works vs infect. So as an aggro stopping card most of the time I think wurmcoil or ugin are as good or better.
Tbh tho most of my wins are via ballista in the end, looping with academy ruins if needed. It can be tutored by tolaria or trinket mage so that helps, and it can't be pathed which keeps it around for loops. Slaver is a good out to weird stuff but not as common for me, and wurmcoil are good period. Kinda makes me wonder if it's even worth running other endgame cards like titan, angel, or sphere
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I play 3 ballista and 3 wurmcoils, looping any of them is game ending and normally resolving one is a huge step. It's nice to just naturally draw them and tutoring them is an afterthought.
Angel is great vs. Burn...in the past it was great against merfolk too if you dont attack because of harbinger, but now they can tap it in your upkeep too and can take away all his abilitys with their/our New toy merfolk trickster. Reejeerey merfolk can force tapping and harbinger after too....dismember...ceremonius...
Maybe you should start thinkIng with your own head, instead of focusing on what most people do ^^
There is a massive difference between putting up a result with a list from an unknown local tournament and 5-0/4-1 multiple times on mtgo and all of it streamed. I'm not discounting the work you put in but people follow what shok does because he backs the list up with results against a known field of players. It's hard to justify some of the changes without meaningful results against a known base of competition. Shok is also the one posting 90% of these finishes which is why the deck doesnt move too much until he adopts it.
I'm gonna be attending a rather large tournament this weekend and have decided to run with Mono U Tron. (my other options was BG Elves, Storm, Hollow One, Merfolk, Burn, Temur Control and a few others decks that my friends have; but i decided to stick with utron as I´m more confident with it)
Atm I am using Surgical extraction and grafdigger's cage because that seems to be the consensus best grave hate.
But I was using Tormod's Crypt before (if you have budget concerns) and it was actually really good, comes down before counterspells you can use it for free at instant speed. I actually brought it in against control decks and didn't feel bad about it.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Surgica extraction i’m currently using only one (need to get one more)
Gonna try grafdiggers tomorrow, as i also am using trinket mage MB
Mainboard:
4 - expedition map
3 - thirst for knowledge
2 - remand
4 - condescend
1 - supreme will
1 - spell burst
1 - commit/memory
3 - oblivion stone
3 - spatial contortion
2 - dismember
2 - into the roil
1 - cyclonic rift
1 - repeal
1 - ugin, the spirit dragon
1 - mindslaver
1 - treasure mage
2 - torrential gearhulk
3 - wurmcoil engine
1 - ghost quarter
1 - academy ruins
10 - island
4 - urza's mine
4 - urza's powerplant
4 - urza's tower
Sideboard:
2 - spellskite
1 - cyclonic rift
2 - echoing truth
3 - negate
3 - relic of progenitus
2 - jester's cap
1 - platinum angel
1 - emrakul, the promised end
1st match vs allies
the match was very unfavorable, but spending a lot of slot for removals for this kind of matchup is really worth it, plus,saved by treasure mage to torrential gearhulk, controlling the board state before landing wurmcoilswon 2 games.
2nd match with uw control
again, treasure mage to torrential gearhulk proved its effectiveness as it stalled the game ubtil wurmcoil engine tookover. spellskite then took its place sb game. won with 3 games.
3rd match with gw hatebears
lost pretty bad against this one, havinng all the land hate on that deck, lost with 3 games.
last round against 5c humans
best match ever,saved by spellskite in game 2. fullswing against my 4 land board state with spellskite and oblivion stone, blocked 1 creature and i was down 2. i have my 5th land at hand and activated oblivion stone on his next turn during combat. eot torrential gearhulk to memory saved the day. casting ugin, activating ugins ultimate and landing 2 wurmcoils, won with 2 games.
all in all, was happy about gearhulks as it can be fetched by treasure mage. can also be reccured from graveyard. compared to snap, it gives the opponent 4 turns. buy it now guys before its too late
will post more result and other variations soon.
while yes i do understand that you can cast snappy on an early turn to recycle spells,it does not really control the board state, and turn 2-4 you would have some spells handy. the main problem with tron is those 5th onward turn that we dont have threats on board. recycling dismember with snappy hurts you more than help you especially on an agro meta. plus you cant recur or search snappy with treasure mage.
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
6 Island
1 Tolaria West
2 Field of Ruin
1 Academy Ruins
3 River Of Tears
Creatures (8)
3 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Spells (21)
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
2 Remand
3 Dismember
2 Spell Snare
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Supreme Will
4 Thirst For Knowledge
Artifacts(5)
3 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Mindslaver
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Negate
1 Dismember
4 Spatial Contortion
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 All is Dust
Round 1: KCI 2-0
Game 1: I countered all his KCI and stronger combo pieces till I assembled the lock. I slavered him and he had infinite but I didn't know how to to do it, whoops.. so I got him into the worst possible spot. It gave him one turn but I had the lock my next turn.
IN: 3 Thought-knot seer, 2 surgical, 2 negate. OUT: - 3 Wurmcoil, 3 Dismember, 1 Map
note I should have just got rid of ugin instead of map but it didn't end up mattering.
Game 2: He tried to jam his kci turn 3 after playing a mindstone turn 2. I countered it and surgicaled the KCI. He kept jamming defence grids after i would Thought knot him. He tried to go off with out the kci and failed. a two turn clock with 2 tks on board finished it up.
note: I should learn how to play kci.. incase that happens again. I knew I had infinite with kci just didn't know how to do it. 1 kci, 2 opals, 2 trawlers and the retriever.. oh well.
Round 2: Kiki Evolution. 1-2
Game 1: I kept a hand that was disruptive and dismembered a tireless tracker on turn 3. I proceeded to draw only lands and the game was quickly over. He played resto the turn after I killed tracker blinking a kitchen finks. Then evolved the finks to get kiki-jiki and I died.
I didn't know how to sideboard to well but i figured it was like counters company as a creature based combo deck. He tended to commit more permanents to the board so i figured another sweeper that is effective turn 3 was fine.
IN: 1 dismember, 4 spatial contortion, 3 Thought-Knot Seer, 1 All is Dust. OUT: 2 Remand, 3 Wurmcoil Engine, 2 Map, 1 Field of Ruin, 1 Spell Snare.
Game 2: I kept a nice blue hand and countered most threats and removed the ones that got through. I left him with only mana dorks. He managed to get me down to 8 but then I mindslavered and drew academy ruins. Opp conceded when I played the ruins.
Game 3: This was a great game with tons of back and forth. I was dodging around his Bloodmoon affects and stony silence. I kept letting him commit permanents to the board when i was at 7 mana. When he evolutioned after attacking me to 4 I should have just overloaded the cyclonic rift in my hand. He got avalanche riders and I then needed to topdeck a land to survive. I think not playing it on the attack was a little greedy but the upside was kind of big.
Round 3: Storm 2-1
Game 1: My opponent hadn't played modern in a while and was borrowing the deck. I kept a natural tron hand with blue cards, no blue. Probably shoulda mulled to 6 but that night was the night of greedy hands/plays I guess. I had a million mana on turn 6 but wasn't dead and then my opp storms off, I make him play it out and he nearly fizzles but doesn't.
IN: 3 Thought-Knot Seer, 2 Surgical, 2 Negate, 1 EE. OUT: 3 Wurmcoil Engine, 1 Ugin, 2 Map, 1 Ballista, 1 Repeal.
Game 2: turn 2 i dismemer his dude. and slam Thought-Knot the next turn. He doesn't have the mana for gifts and I take it. He does some shenanigans and flashsback a past in flames and has nothing to do with it. Concedes and we go to game 3.
Game 3: He Mulled to 6 and kept what looked like a risky hand. I had another very controlling hand. I had the Snare for his turn 2 creature. afterwords I had the condescend for his 2nd dude. I played Though-knot seer my turn 4. Took past in flames leave him with 2 rituals. He cast one, then manamorphose and and I surgicaled the ritual when he couldn't cast it. I kept on denying him mana even if a gifts ungiven got past. 4/4 beats did the job.
Felt like a good night, played mostly okay. I do think I punted against Kiki by being greedy but other than that the deck felt good. 4/6 decks were combo, me, and BW Taxes. KCI is very scary but It felt like most combo matches, don't tap low for your threats until you know you can without the opp winning on the crack back.
Match 1: 2-1 against Storm
Game 1 I land a chalice on 1 and Wurmcoil gets me there before they can storm off
Game 2 was absolutely insane. I got stormed out after having a chalice on 1 and 2 due to (I forget the name) a 3 mana split second bounce target
permanent
Game 3 I landed a chalice on 1 Wurmcoil and TKS beats brought it home
Match 2: 2-1 against UR Thing in the Ice
Game 1: I got blindsided by double mutagenic growth
Game 2: Kill his TiTis and Wurmcoil ends the game
Game 3: Stabilize at 1 life after an Ugin wipes out 2 TiTis and my opponent concedes
Match 3: 2-0 Agains UWR Control
Game 1: Chalice on 1 gave way to Wurmcoil beats
Game 2: TKS on turn 4 that I protected as it swung in 5 times
Game 4: BR Hollow one 0-2
Game 1: Turn 1 Hollow One into Turn 2 Pheonix, and Angler
Game 2: Pretty much same as the first game
Game 5: UW Control 1-2
Game 1: I play the waiting game until I land a karn which ends up taking over the game with his constructs
Game 2: I misplay and let him resolve a T4 Jace which I'm never able to do anything about
Game 4: I lose the counter war and a Teferi makes the game unwinnable.
So this was my second league with the deck and I already felt myself improve. I always, however, struggle in the UW control match up. It just seems that they have twice as many counterspells as us, and that we can't interact with the walkers once the land. I was thanking of adding an Ulamog to the SB for this sort of match up. Thoughts? Also Hollow One feels like a terrible match up. This is my list:
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
7 Island
1 Field of Ruin
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Expedition Map
3 Talisman of Dominance
1 Thought Knot Seer
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Treasure Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Mindslaver
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Platinum Angel
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Walking Ballista
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Remand
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dismember
Sideboard
2 Spreading Seas
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Thought Knot Seer
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Dismember
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Negate
The shoktroopa list is the most commonly played. It’s a good place to start.
It looks like shoktroopa runs it over platinum angel? I can only think of two times angel helped me either tbh one being humans where I just prayed they wouldn't cavern in a reflector so that barely counts.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Sunderu is better against midrange/control and Platz is better against aggro/some combo/some prison. We struggle with aggro, so the Angel is the natural choice. However, when Titan resolves against Jeskai Control or Jund, it's game over more often than not, but in all matchups Angel mostly stalls until we can find a true finisher- it folds to path, double bolt, reflector mage, dismember, Kcommand, ancient grudge, etc. The only decks off the top of my head that can't beat resolved angel are ad nauseam and lantern control, and that's only pre-board. For that reason, I'm running with Sunderu right now, although if you play paper it's a meta call for sure.
Also, whichever one (or ones) you play, they will be boarded out often. They're narrow. Sometimes they don't do anything. If that doesn't appeal to you, it's totally valid to play neither.
Tbh tho most of my wins are via ballista in the end, looping with academy ruins if needed. It can be tutored by tolaria or trinket mage so that helps, and it can't be pathed which keeps it around for loops. Slaver is a good out to weird stuff but not as common for me, and wurmcoil are good period. Kinda makes me wonder if it's even worth running other endgame cards like titan, angel, or sphere
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
There is a massive difference between putting up a result with a list from an unknown local tournament and 5-0/4-1 multiple times on mtgo and all of it streamed. I'm not discounting the work you put in but people follow what shok does because he backs the list up with results against a known field of players. It's hard to justify some of the changes without meaningful results against a known base of competition. Shok is also the one posting 90% of these finishes which is why the deck doesnt move too much until he adopts it.
I'm gonna be attending a rather large tournament this weekend and have decided to run with Mono U Tron. (my other options was BG Elves, Storm, Hollow One, Merfolk, Burn, Temur Control and a few others decks that my friends have; but i decided to stick with utron as I´m more confident with it)
So, here is the list that i´m pretending to use:
Maindeck
Sideboard
Note: i´m not using Crucible of Worlds because i didn´t manage to get it yet, but if i can, i´m gonna use it on sb.
Any opinion about the 75?
I'd personally replace it with either another surgical or Grafdigger's Cage. Only 1 surgical for GY hate is pretty light.