Seems like a very long stretch. Even people playing new Karns have pretty much settled on playing just 1.
I like the card a ton (and the art is slick as hell) and I want to build around it alongside Karn really bad, but I don't think U Tron is the shell. The tron lands seem mostly pointless if your goal is to plus him into the ult anyway and you REALLY want to curve out Karn -> Tezz with him which will not happen often and means tapping out for two turns. I like new Karn a ton because I can just natural tron into him t3 (which is awesome with a talisman out for U mana/counter backup) and late-game I am not tapping down my U sources to drop a must-answer walker.
I mean, I just like Tezzeret's style so I'm gonna grab one and jam it in there for funsies, but just like Jace I think he busts hard for us.
Seems like a very long stretch. Even people playing new Karns have pretty much settled on playing just 1.
I like the card a ton (and the art is slick as hell) and I want to build around it alongside Karn really bad, but I don't think U Tron is the shell. The tron lands seem mostly pointless if your goal is to plus him into the ult anyway and you REALLY want to curve out Karn -> Tezz with him which will not happen often and means tapping out for two turns. I like new Karn a ton because I can just natural tron into him t3 (which is awesome with a talisman out for U mana/counter backup) and late-game I am not tapping down my U sources to drop a must-answer walker.
I mean, I just like Tezzeret's style so I'm gonna grab one and jam it in there for funsies, but just like Jace I think he busts hard for us.
Agreed. I think drawing 2 cards every turn he’s out is doable in the talisman builds, but it might be win more at that point.
If i have trinket mage in the main deck, i usually have a grafdiggers cage in the sideboard. I always have surgical as it is the best answere to the fast graveyard based decks. Relic always feels kind of expensive since you really want to keep one mana up to crack when needed. It is hard to say what is correct though but I have felt that I need answeres against fast decks more than against slow decks, so surgical have felt best overall. It is also important against G tron
I tried going without trinket mage myself but decided on putting him back in. Against all these go-wide decks, Tolaria West isn’t cutting it. It helps trading off/chumping and grabbing explosives for next turn.
It makes it more consistent in my experience.
I’m tninking of sideboardinh inkwell leviathan aginst the control matchups. They’ve been a pain recently.
Round 1: G/R Scapeshift (2-1) This matchup is favored if they draw threats and hard if they only draw ramp ironically, lost the game because they were on the play and had t3 tireless tracker with fetchland and simian spirit guide to pay for condescend.
Round 2: Mardu Pyromancer (2-1) This matchup is pretty easy, just stick a wurmcoil and it's hard to lose
Round 3: U/R Thing in the Ice Control (1-2) Not sure how I managed to lose what should be a favored matchup, opp had t2 thing in the ice all 3 games and I didnt have the counters for it. I think I should have brought in all the dismembers in g2 (I did for g3) but I wasnt sure how all in on thing they were, turns out it was their only wincon that I saw. In g3 opp had every 1 mana counter from dispel to ceremonious to spell pierce so I couldn't get the thing of the table and died.
Round 4: G/B Tron (2-0) This is a difficult matchup so 2-0 was surprising, managed to stall just enough in g1 to slaver lock quickly. In game 2 I surgical extracted a tron land on t3 and then countered my way to victory. Surgical tron is the primary way to win this matchup post-board, I try to set it up as fast as possible.
Round 5: Burn (1-2) Almost got this one but the menace had a fast start in game 3 and I didnt, what can you do. Tks out of the board helps in this matchup.
Round 6: Elves (2-0) Elves is a good matchup from my experience, they are not super fast and most of their stuff is able to be dealt with. Chalice on 1 and wraths are mvp here.
Round 7: KCI (1-2) This one was a heartbreaker. Playing for top 16 and a bunch of treasure chests. G1 I kept a hand with no counters in the dark and opp goldfished. G2 all the counters and easy win. G3 opp played t3 scrap trawler, I dismembered and then surgicalled it. Looking at decklist opp only has the one emmy as an out. Next turn I tap out of tks (no counters in hand anyway) I take some cantrip artifact and opp has two KCIs. They managed to dig enough to draw the one emmy which is lethal as im at 14 from the dismember surgical play. KCI is normally a great matchup as your counters are excellent but alas didnt draw many of them in g3, or the whole tournament for that matter.
Post tournament notes: My 60 is the same as shoks right now and it feels very solid. I was playing 2 karn instead of the one chalice in the main but challice main has been pretty good and helps thirst. Wouldnt change anything about the main. The sideboard is where my list differs. I'm playing 2 Thought-knots which are excellent in a lot of hard matchups including burn and g-tron but also good vs any control, ponza,scapeshift, and others. I like where the sideboard is for now but I'm still not 100% sold on things like spreading seas. I will be taking this list, maybe 1 or two sb changes, to the SCG Open in Atlanta next week so wish me luck. Also I stream now on https://www.twitch.tv/rjawa I'm going to try and get a regular schedule going. For now it is tuesday/thursday at 8pm EST and Saturday at 11am EST + any extra time I want to but this could change on a week by week thing. Also I will be making a youtube channel soon but I need to pick a name as RJawa is taken, if you have ideas let me know. I want to share knowledge on how to play this fun and rewarding deck.
Hello! I went 4-1 on the last modern FNM. my list is like pierakor style 3 chalice but 2 dismember! more on the controlly side, no gearhulk.
2-0 Ponza: first match he played turn 3 bloodmoon but i had O stone intro Ugin and won from there second match was one sided for me, counter every threat.
0-2 Grishoalbrand: first match went turn 1 discard gris turn 2 goryo, second match chalice on 1 but he went 8 cards and discarded grisel and gg.
2-1 Vampires: very close matches w. ballista was perfect for killing lords and then the little vampires.
2-0 UR Storm: countered threats and dismember turn 1 on the draw was unexpected then won from chalice on 2.
2-1 Jeskai control: I lose first match because of flood, second match squelch fetch into win, third match controlly game he tappedout and I comboed.
There is no real "most recent" list, since most of the guys here have a slight different approach to the deck, you can literally look up page 713+ for the lists that are currently played.
thanks, cause my list as of the moment involves red. too much agro in the phillipine meta. kozilek's return in mainboard is a must. will share my list if there is any positive results
I really like your fast approach to the deck, I'll try the list but with 1x mindslaver and 4x spell snare; I think spell snare works best with a playset because you want it on your first hand that's where it shines and steals you the game!
I really like your fast approach to the deck, I'll try the list but with 1x mindslaver and 4x spell snare; I think spell snare works best with a playset because you want it on your first hand that's where it shines and steals you the game!
I always try to play the deck with as many early interaction spells as I can. Be it more Contortions maindeck, be it Snare or Explosives. It’s just a matter of switching bullets according to the metagame.
Mindslaver is required in two copies. One, we don’t have tutors in this list, so a singleton isn’t appealing. Two, running Snare means strengthening Slaver inner power: less susceptible to Stony Silence and Sphere, other than Spreading Seas. They are very complementary.
Snare is cool, but there are archetypes against whom it’s a dead card (Eldrazi, Cavern decks etc). Four copies is too much (tested them a lot in the past). And I’m already down to 13 artifacts.
makes perfect sense! yes I have troble against cavern decks, in more removal out counters? if so how many... and in which order
supreme will - remand - conde? thanks in advance for feedback.
I normally board out remand first. Supreme had the upside of dig 4. And you can "counter" a spell with condescend for the scry 2. But it's normally a toss between remand and will for me.
Ohh a nice classic list. I notice you have all your removal in your sideboard as opposed to slotting some into the main, do you feel like having only repeal limiting in that first game? Although I like all the 2 ofs in your sideboard
So Khan is the new hotness then... I find that a little surprising I am not 100% sure how he is that much better than Solemn makes a chump and/or draws a card.
Sadly I don't have the cards to just copy the list. I am basically just waiting for cards like ballista and khan to rotate out of standard... (or borrow one if I go to a pptq). I still have no snappies so I'l play gearhulk and no Engineered explosives... just need to find someone that wants my tarmogoyf... ratchet bomb in that slot I guess. I must of traded away my spreading seas at some point I might buy some.
I'll try out 1 cage 1 surgical set up (I only own one surgical). I like being able to slot in random gravehate in the control match up when I side out removal.
thanks, cause my list as of the moment involves red. too much agro in the phillipine meta. kozilek's return in mainboard is a must. will share my list if there is any positive results
It is really unfortunate that there is no U/R Tailisman or U/R river of tears land that is what makes it really hard to play U/R. I am not sure if there are any good 2 mana rainbow tap rocks you could use.... nope looks like those are also bad :/... Coldsteel heart, Sphere of the suns. You basically have to use chromatic sphere
What are ideal cards to have in the deck for games 2 and 3 vs Eldrazi Tron. I got wrecked 3 games in a row last night. Granted it was my only match lost but it felt like I was behind the whole time and had to fight thru a few obnoxious threats like ballista with a basilisk collar.
First time playing with 2 snaps as well. And absolutely loved having them in the deck! Thanks for the advice in that @bloodyrabbit!
I have been on the 2nd Snapcaster for some time and I won’t ever take it out. It’s very important especially post board with the Spaitials and extra counter magic.
Thanks for the input. Maybe I just had slow draws. For sure game 2 I debated attacking their manabase on turn 3 but instead went for development of my own Tron. So I was definitely wrong. I'll try to get more reps vs that guy since he's always at my LGS.
Finished 6-2-1 after day one of the SCG Open today which is good enough to make the day 2 cut. Had a rough start but managed to get 5 wins in a row in order to stay alive. Prob the lone U-tron player on day two so hoping to win some matches and get the deck on the map. Expect a full write up here after the event and I'll talk about it on stream too. In case you cant wait, here is a link to the 75 I played: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1163423#paper
I managed to finish in 64th place for the open and I'm happy with that although I wanted better. For the decklist check two posts up, I don't feel it's needed to repost it. Here I'll do a breakdown for the 15 rounds I played but I won't go too into the match specifics instead I'll general matchup advice, maybe one or two interesting points so that this post isn't super long and it will be more helpful.
Round 1: Eldrazi Tron 2-1 This matchup is favored for us, plan is to stick a wurm and counter their stuff while stopping the 1 or 2 ulamogs. Bring in the bigger removal and threats, take out the non-tron ramp and repeals and chalice
Round 2: 1-2 Affinity This matchup is bad but not the worst by far. Ballista is the MVP here and its hard to lose with it. Bring in all the removal, the mass bounce, cut a slaver, a titan, the solemn, the talismans and everything else you think is too slow
Round 3: 0-2 Humans This matchup is pretty 50/50 depending on their draw. I mulled to 5 both games so not much to say. Go up removal take out as much counter magic as you can starting with remands and then getting condescend and cut the slow ramp.
Round 4: 1-1 Affinity Somehow managed to draw with affinity. Opp was pretty new to the deck and playing super slow, g3 I had an angel and chalice on 1 but couldn't assemble slaver lock in time. Same sb advice as above
Round 5: 2-0 G-tron Was feeling pretty down here as my start was bad but came back with a win in a tough matchup. Bring in the land hate and try to do everything possible to surgically a tron piece. Its the best way to win post-board. Idk how you win g1 just get lucky I guess
Round 6: 2-1 U/W Control A good matchup for once! Just save your counters for when they play something that actually matters, or you are resolving a threat. Try and bait them with non game ending threats first and save your salvers/titans for when it is most likely to land. Go up counter magic go down removal, although I keep 1 dismember in. Take out non-tron ramp.
Round 7: 2-0 Sultai Delver Opp played basically sultai control, found out they had delvers after the match. See u/w control same plan
Round 8: 2-0 Ad nauseum Also an excellent matchup, counter their combo ez. Chalice on 0 is key here to stop pact go up counter magic down slow ramp and big threats
Round 9: 2-0 R/G Eldrazi A pretty good matchup sb and plan is the same as eldrazi tron in round 1.
I won't do the day 2 matches as there wasn't much to talk about as my performance was poor (2-4) and it didnt reflect how the matchups normally go. For the record I beat Hollow One, lost to Elves, Blue moon,U/B Faeries, and G/W Value but lots of mulligans and some poor play on my part. One of the wins was a bye as well.
Overall thoughts on the list/event: I mostly enjoyed the main deck except for a couple of things. Chalice didn't feel good in the main and I'm not sure it belongs there, it's pretty slow on the draw and I think it could be better to just be another ballista or something. For the side, I dont know if 2 spell pierces is needed and spreading seas is always questionable. TKS was great and comes in a lot of matches. I will be doing some experimenting on stream with some different ideas I have. For the tournament I'm really unhappy with my day 2 record and know I could have done better but 64th isnt bad and it does cash so overall it's ok. If you have any questions about the list, a matchup, or whatever ask and I'll answer it. As a reminder I stream at twtich.tv/rjawa so follow me there and you will get a better insight into the deck.
Congrats Rjawa! That's an awesome finish. Way to rep the deck. And keep up the stream. I enjoy watching the vods when i can. Thanks for contributing. I am Mindslaver on twitch. I'll try to watch the stream live when i can
I’ve had a terrible time against u/w control. field of ruin, ghost quarter, and crucible of worlds main deck mean I never get to slaver. We trade counter spells, I resolve a threat that meets a path after another counter battle. Ultimately, I resolve tron early or lose.
The other control match ups have been no problem. What gives? I even tried to bait threats so I could resolve a game ender to no avail.
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Key word is MIGHT.
Just wish it didn’t take 5 turns to ultimate.
I like the card a ton (and the art is slick as hell) and I want to build around it alongside Karn really bad, but I don't think U Tron is the shell. The tron lands seem mostly pointless if your goal is to plus him into the ult anyway and you REALLY want to curve out Karn -> Tezz with him which will not happen often and means tapping out for two turns. I like new Karn a ton because I can just natural tron into him t3 (which is awesome with a talisman out for U mana/counter backup) and late-game I am not tapping down my U sources to drop a must-answer walker.
I mean, I just like Tezzeret's style so I'm gonna grab one and jam it in there for funsies, but just like Jace I think he busts hard for us.
Agreed. I think drawing 2 cards every turn he’s out is doable in the talisman builds, but it might be win more at that point.
I tried going without trinket mage myself but decided on putting him back in. Against all these go-wide decks, Tolaria West isn’t cutting it. It helps trading off/chumping and grabbing explosives for next turn.
It makes it more consistent in my experience.
I’m tninking of sideboardinh inkwell leviathan aginst the control matchups. They’ve been a pain recently.
Round 1: G/R Scapeshift (2-1) This matchup is favored if they draw threats and hard if they only draw ramp ironically, lost the game because they were on the play and had t3 tireless tracker with fetchland and simian spirit guide to pay for condescend.
Round 2: Mardu Pyromancer (2-1) This matchup is pretty easy, just stick a wurmcoil and it's hard to lose
Round 3: U/R Thing in the Ice Control (1-2) Not sure how I managed to lose what should be a favored matchup, opp had t2 thing in the ice all 3 games and I didnt have the counters for it. I think I should have brought in all the dismembers in g2 (I did for g3) but I wasnt sure how all in on thing they were, turns out it was their only wincon that I saw. In g3 opp had every 1 mana counter from dispel to ceremonious to spell pierce so I couldn't get the thing of the table and died.
Round 4: G/B Tron (2-0) This is a difficult matchup so 2-0 was surprising, managed to stall just enough in g1 to slaver lock quickly. In game 2 I surgical extracted a tron land on t3 and then countered my way to victory. Surgical tron is the primary way to win this matchup post-board, I try to set it up as fast as possible.
Round 5: Burn (1-2) Almost got this one but the menace had a fast start in game 3 and I didnt, what can you do. Tks out of the board helps in this matchup.
Round 6: Elves (2-0) Elves is a good matchup from my experience, they are not super fast and most of their stuff is able to be dealt with. Chalice on 1 and wraths are mvp here.
Round 7: KCI (1-2) This one was a heartbreaker. Playing for top 16 and a bunch of treasure chests. G1 I kept a hand with no counters in the dark and opp goldfished. G2 all the counters and easy win. G3 opp played t3 scrap trawler, I dismembered and then surgicalled it. Looking at decklist opp only has the one emmy as an out. Next turn I tap out of tks (no counters in hand anyway) I take some cantrip artifact and opp has two KCIs. They managed to dig enough to draw the one emmy which is lethal as im at 14 from the dismember surgical play. KCI is normally a great matchup as your counters are excellent but alas didnt draw many of them in g3, or the whole tournament for that matter.
Post tournament notes: My 60 is the same as shoks right now and it feels very solid. I was playing 2 karn instead of the one chalice in the main but challice main has been pretty good and helps thirst. Wouldnt change anything about the main. The sideboard is where my list differs. I'm playing 2 Thought-knots which are excellent in a lot of hard matchups including burn and g-tron but also good vs any control, ponza,scapeshift, and others. I like where the sideboard is for now but I'm still not 100% sold on things like spreading seas. I will be taking this list, maybe 1 or two sb changes, to the SCG Open in Atlanta next week so wish me luck. Also I stream now on https://www.twitch.tv/rjawa I'm going to try and get a regular schedule going. For now it is tuesday/thursday at 8pm EST and Saturday at 11am EST + any extra time I want to but this could change on a week by week thing. Also I will be making a youtube channel soon but I need to pick a name as RJawa is taken, if you have ideas let me know. I want to share knowledge on how to play this fun and rewarding deck.
2-0 Ponza: first match he played turn 3 bloodmoon but i had O stone intro Ugin and won from there second match was one sided for me, counter every threat.
0-2 Grishoalbrand: first match went turn 1 discard gris turn 2 goryo, second match chalice on 1 but he went 8 cards and discarded grisel and gg.
2-1 Vampires: very close matches w. ballista was perfect for killing lords and then the little vampires.
2-0 UR Storm: countered threats and dismember turn 1 on the draw was unexpected then won from chalice on 2.
2-1 Jeskai control: I lose first match because of flood, second match squelch fetch into win, third match controlly game he tappedout and I comboed.
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Max
UTron
makes perfect sense! yes I have troble against cavern decks, in more removal out counters? if so how many... and in which order
supreme will - remand - conde? thanks in advance for feedback.
So Khan is the new hotness then... I find that a little surprising I am not 100% sure how he is that much better than Solemn makes a chump and/or draws a card.
Sadly I don't have the cards to just copy the list. I am basically just waiting for cards like ballista and khan to rotate out of standard... (or borrow one if I go to a pptq). I still have no snappies so I'l play gearhulk and no Engineered explosives... just need to find someone that wants my tarmogoyf... ratchet bomb in that slot I guess. I must of traded away my spreading seas at some point I might buy some.
I'll try out 1 cage 1 surgical set up (I only own one surgical). I like being able to slot in random gravehate in the control match up when I side out removal.
It is really unfortunate that there is no U/R Tailisman or U/R river of tears land that is what makes it really hard to play U/R. I am not sure if there are any good 2 mana rainbow tap rocks you could use.... nope looks like those are also bad :/... Coldsteel heart, Sphere of the suns. You basically have to use chromatic sphere
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
First time playing with 2 snaps as well. And absolutely loved having them in the deck! Thanks for the advice in that @bloodyrabbit!
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
Thanks for the input. Maybe I just had slow draws. For sure game 2 I debated attacking their manabase on turn 3 but instead went for development of my own Tron. So I was definitely wrong. I'll try to get more reps vs that guy since he's always at my LGS.
Round 1: Eldrazi Tron 2-1 This matchup is favored for us, plan is to stick a wurm and counter their stuff while stopping the 1 or 2 ulamogs. Bring in the bigger removal and threats, take out the non-tron ramp and repeals and chalice
Round 2: 1-2 Affinity This matchup is bad but not the worst by far. Ballista is the MVP here and its hard to lose with it. Bring in all the removal, the mass bounce, cut a slaver, a titan, the solemn, the talismans and everything else you think is too slow
Round 3: 0-2 Humans This matchup is pretty 50/50 depending on their draw. I mulled to 5 both games so not much to say. Go up removal take out as much counter magic as you can starting with remands and then getting condescend and cut the slow ramp.
Round 4: 1-1 Affinity Somehow managed to draw with affinity. Opp was pretty new to the deck and playing super slow, g3 I had an angel and chalice on 1 but couldn't assemble slaver lock in time. Same sb advice as above
Round 5: 2-0 G-tron Was feeling pretty down here as my start was bad but came back with a win in a tough matchup. Bring in the land hate and try to do everything possible to surgically a tron piece. Its the best way to win post-board. Idk how you win g1 just get lucky I guess
Round 6: 2-1 U/W Control A good matchup for once! Just save your counters for when they play something that actually matters, or you are resolving a threat. Try and bait them with non game ending threats first and save your salvers/titans for when it is most likely to land. Go up counter magic go down removal, although I keep 1 dismember in. Take out non-tron ramp.
Round 7: 2-0 Sultai Delver Opp played basically sultai control, found out they had delvers after the match. See u/w control same plan
Round 8: 2-0 Ad nauseum Also an excellent matchup, counter their combo ez. Chalice on 0 is key here to stop pact go up counter magic down slow ramp and big threats
Round 9: 2-0 R/G Eldrazi A pretty good matchup sb and plan is the same as eldrazi tron in round 1.
I won't do the day 2 matches as there wasn't much to talk about as my performance was poor (2-4) and it didnt reflect how the matchups normally go. For the record I beat Hollow One, lost to Elves, Blue moon,U/B Faeries, and G/W Value but lots of mulligans and some poor play on my part. One of the wins was a bye as well.
Overall thoughts on the list/event: I mostly enjoyed the main deck except for a couple of things. Chalice didn't feel good in the main and I'm not sure it belongs there, it's pretty slow on the draw and I think it could be better to just be another ballista or something. For the side, I dont know if 2 spell pierces is needed and spreading seas is always questionable. TKS was great and comes in a lot of matches. I will be doing some experimenting on stream with some different ideas I have. For the tournament I'm really unhappy with my day 2 record and know I could have done better but 64th isnt bad and it does cash so overall it's ok. If you have any questions about the list, a matchup, or whatever ask and I'll answer it. As a reminder I stream at twtich.tv/rjawa so follow me there and you will get a better insight into the deck.
The other control match ups have been no problem. What gives? I even tried to bait threats so I could resolve a game ender to no avail.