MTG Salvation

In my experience the rocks do a few things.

[1]. Accelerate. This is obvious, but can be important to hit our 4 drops earlier. A popular play would be T2 Talisman, T3 Solemn Simulacrum, T4 Wurmcoil engine.
[2]. U mana. Snapcaster needs double blue to work in our deck. By playing the rock you can play just one island and then go for the rest of the tron pieces.
[3]. Additional artifacts to discard for TFK or the new Karn -2.

Quote from bufert89 »

Two topics:

what is the best defense against fast decks? chalice of the void??

I have one chalice and want more, but they are so expensive. There’s also EE. Also, expensive. Is it better to have 2 chalice or 1/1 split? Is there any point in more than 2 chalices?

Second, with so many ways to disrupt tron is there ever a world where expedition map isn’t the card to be playing? Is there any u tron decks that function without the maps?

Peope use to play 4 chalices. It was great when infect, burn, and affinity were 3/5 top decks. Now, the threats are more diverse so its not as good. I think a good way to think of this is that sun and moon used to be a deck which played 4 of them. That deck no longer exists. Still I think two chalice are good against burn, control (stops opt, bolt, path to exile) affinity on zero etc.

EDIT: Check out this card for the SB!



It could be pretty great vs burn, decks which go wide.

i played spreading seas against burn with the goal of mana screwing them. its better than a fair amount of cards in the match up. I don't play it anymore but it is a nice card.

Quote from BloodyRabbit_01 »

Spreading Seas is a cool card, and it has a lot of merits. That said, it’s trhe 20-21^ card I would put in my sideboard.

I agree. Having 1 FoR and a Tech edge/GQ with a Crucible in the board is my line.

Quote from TKOS7 »

Spreading Seas is great against Tron obviously, and it’s nice that you can Repeal it and put it on another Tronland if they play a clone and you get value from the draws.

However Spreading Seas has other uses. Seas on a forest with two Utopia Sprawls on it? Fun. Seas to choke people’s mana. Seas on a Valakut. Hell I’ve even Seas’d my own lands to get more blue sources before.

Ghost quarter can do most of these things but you’re down a land. I run Field oR main (of course) but it can’t do the thing against Ponza.

But the main benefit to Seas is that it draws a card. It’s not a bad topdeck.



As for Field of Ruin, I’m of the opinion it’s a strictly better Ghost Quarter for us. It fixes our mana and more importantly does not put us down a land. The activation cost has never been an issue for me.

I think ghost quarter is not strictly worse only when paired with crucible of worlds.

Thanks guys. I'm thinking FoR main and Tec Edge side now, and cutting ghost quarter entirely.

What's the stance on O-stone vs Ugin? I'm on a 2/1 split right now, but I don't know if that's correct. Ugin's a lot better if we can get a quick tron online, but is pretty much dead otherwise, and doesn't pitch to thirst. O-stone is much better if we can't get tron, but it's not a finisher in the same way that Ugin is. My other idea was going 1/2 and putting a second O-stone in the board for when people side in tron hate, but I don't know what I'd cut- maybe my second Spell Snare? Again, I'd like to hear what other people are doing.

I don't think it really answers your question, but I have been having good results with the following list:



I took rabbit's advice on the Dismembers, and it's been working well. The Jester's Cap and Myr Battlesphere in the side are only there because I haven't bought a Crucible of Worlds yet. I plan on swapping those out for a Crucible and a Tectonic Edge if Crucible drops to an acceptable price. I do need to stress that my metagame isn't exactly all tier decks, but I do face a decent amount of Abzan, Humans, Burn, Elves, Eldrazi Tron, and Affinity. I have also played this deck a decent amount online, but have shifted focus to my UW Eldrazi Taxes deck.

I do have to say, the Dismembers have been working great when combined with the three maindeck Chalice of the Void, being able to take out the small creatures that slip through before I land Chalice, and the big creatures that are harder to Repeal. The life loss is usually pretty minimal.

Is commit actually good? I tried it briefly and never actually cast memory but I don't think giving opponent seven cards late game is a winning move for this deck. You're usually ahead in cards by then from thirst and other cantrips so end up flat out losing CA if you both go to seven.

Gearhulk similarly doesn't work with repeal or condescend which I did not like. Having thirst and dismember as your best hopes with remand as the only other option is pretty limited value.

Commit's been a lifesaver, in that it answers the small niche things that slip through. It "counters" uncounterable spells, bounces for less mana than Repeal would, and with Gearhulk, I have used Memory quite a few times at the end of my opp's turn to refill my hand and just win. Yes, it refills their hands, too, but I am very careful when I do it, only if I have Tron online and have *way* more mana than they do so that I can counter everything if need be. There've been plenty if times when I did it, untapped, and just Slaverlocked immediately, or cast Plat Angel with Chalice on 1 and a full grip of counters, etc. Gearhulk is also a very relevant body for surprise blocks that takes chunks out of an opp's life total. You also missed that I have the additional option of Supreme Will to use with the Gearhulk, though I rarely flash that back if I have the choice between it and Thirst, unless I need to counter something.

Impressive, thanks for sharing list and stats. How do you stabelize against Boggles, 6-0 - sometimes it feels like you can´t win and are dead on T4.


Greets
Max

Has anyone tried champion of wits? Ive got it in as a one of and so far its felt okay. Eternalized once when I had tron up but no gas in hand and this was obviously excellent, casting it early for the faithless looting and a block is ok - they either bolt/push allowing us to eternalize later or path ramping us ahead and giving more blue mana to work with. I kind of like having one threat that I can play from the grave if I need to, but not sure I need a "fifth thirst". The use of treasure and trinket mage suggest we can support some number of 2u bears but unclear if champion does enough more than these.

Am very much undecided. Also theres a bad but plausible trick where you spatial contortion the champion to draw an extra three

Barrin,

I'm running almost the exact list, I do not currenlty have a strong sideboard though. I'm missing a chalice, EE, and Surgical extractions. I've noticed you have pretty good results against aggro/tempo based decks. Merfolk is miserable for me and you have 4-0. is EE winning you these match ups? Is it something else like aggressive mulligans? Also, combo seems to be a miserable match up. What tech would best fight combo?

Interesting results... since I still play a tailismins list I am interested in these.

The particularly aggressive decks burn, infect, and you don't have the necessary affinity hate to beat it, are bad match ups. I guess GR eldrazi is aggro?

GWx Company: 8-6 I didn't realise this deck was so popular I rarely see it. I'd of expected them to be too slow to stop you.

The scapeshift match up looks a little shaky although I have always enjoyed these games, because its one of the rare times you can be the beatdown.
GR Titan shift: 5-4
GR Scapeshift: 1-4

BGx midrange (Jund etc.): 6-5 ?????? what? that doesn't seem right.
Grixis deathshadow is a bit of a beating.


Humans: 7-9, This is really concerning though considering how popular it is what sideboard changes do you think will improve it?

I need to go back and give my deck and sideboard a meta tune up.

Quote from bufert89 »

Barrin,

I'm running almost the exact list, I do not currenlty have a strong sideboard though. I'm missing a chalice, EE, and Surgical extractions. I've noticed you have pretty good results against aggro/tempo based decks. Merfolk is miserable for me and you have 4-0. is EE winning you these match ups? Is it something else like aggressive mulligans? Also, combo seems to be a miserable match up. What tech would best fight combo?

Interesting point, have missed the Merfolk results. I don´t believe that EE wins these matchup alone. Its our worst I would say (aggressive, counter main, islandwalk, tap/bounce creatures). I am very intersted in his analysis as well. I have something like 25% winquote against them..


Greets
Max

M19 Spoiler: Tezzeret, Artifice Master

In case the link doesn't work:
3UU
+1: Create a 1/1 Thopter with flying
0: Draw a card, if you control three or more artifacts, draw two cards.
-9: Emblem with "At the beginning of your end step, put a permanent from your library onto the battlefield"

Protects itself (sorta), good card advantage, game-winning ultimate. Could be good in a talisman-style deck that already runs baby karn to take advantage of the 0.

I'm picking up some pieces to rebuild this deck. I have two Chalice of the Void currently. Previously, I know people were running 4 chalices although it seems like 2 or none. What situation would have ya'll considering moving back up on the chalice count? I;m asking because I have the opportunity to move some smaller pieces for another chalice.

What are peoples thoughts on generic gravehate (cypt, relic, cage) vs surgical extraction?

I prefer Relic, personally. The fact that you can cash it in for a card is big game.

I've been struggling to answer that question myself. In my meta there's a lot of company and hallowone decks so I'm prone to play graffdiggers cage. In a large, unknown meta I would imagine surgical extraction is the strongest pick.

Relic has always felt a little slow to me, and easier for opponents to play around and the only value I ever saw in crypt was playing it under a chalice on 1.

I think surgical is stronger for us vs cards like relic or cage. Hollow One has two game plans both of which are extremely fast. But the gy cards like the phoenix rely on the Hollow one, flameblade adept plan to be going well. I'd rather be dealing with the recursive threats and get rid of all of them at once, followed by only having to deal with generic 4/4s and 5/5s. Dredge is less played now but surgicaling bloodghast or prized amalgam should lock up the game. Narcomoeba,the 1/x dredge creatures and conflagrate being the only threats after that. Relic and cage are both good against these decks but I think having the zero mana instant speed part is stronger. I think that cards like relic are stronger against snapcaster decks, and other slow decks that utilize it for flashback rather than as an extra hand. KCI and Storm are both combo decks that utilize the graveyard as well. I think surgicaling a key piece is probably stronger than trying to shut them off mid combo. But a blow out can happen if you topdeck relic right after they did a set up turn. The Cycling part of relic is nice though. If you are needing to draw that key piece of interaction and have relic and an extra mana, it is nice. surgicaling your opponents trons lands also feels real nice.

Quote from tophat118 »

I'm picking up some pieces to rebuild this deck. I have two Chalice of the Void currently. Previously, I know people were running 4 chalices although it seems like 2 or none. What situation would have ya'll considering moving back up on the chalice count? I;m asking because I have the opportunity to move some smaller pieces for another chalice.

I'm not playing any currently and not missing it too much. I think chalice depends on your meta and how you like playing the deck. If you have the opportunity to trade up, I'd probably take it. Doesn't hurt to just have more of an expensive card that will almost always be good in any given format.