Cryptic command is one hell of a card, super flexible that can handle almost every situation and especially creatures, big or small that u tron usually have problem with. Problem is of course the triple blue mana cost.
What do you think of trying to run the deck with more mana rocks or more spheres/stars like regular tron to fix the mana? Is it worth the payoff?
As i said... just a random though. Anyone tried something like this out? Would it be 3-4 auto include if it was only 1-2 blue and rest colorless? Just feels a little bad to skip one, if not the, of the most powerful cards in blue.
Why? I am familiar with gifts in general (I used to pilot storm), I know its reanimator piles in Esper renaimator decks, and am familiar with the piles that give the illusion of giving an opponent a choice with the 75 I currently have. I just want to know what the lines are for crucible, because someone suggested running it.
But I don't think me not knowing 1 card's interaction makes me ignorant of how to use Gifts Ungiven. That just makes me admittedly ignorant of how Crucible fits, which was why I sought to rectify that by asking anyone familiar with an answer.
And thank you! I originally had a Sundering (and Supreme Wills) in the main but I think I took it out for Epiphany and a MB Chalice. It's tough I've gotten suggestions from every which direction that kind of pull all sorts of places, which is also the beauty of the deck and why it appealed to me so much.
And for Noxious, I have it this Gifts line: Ugin, Expedition Map, Mindslaver, Noxious Revival, but in general it's just a really good synergistic "Blank" 4th slot for Gifts.
So I guess the thing to do is:
MB
-2 Epiphany
+1 Wurmcoil
+1 Dismember
SB
-1 Wurmcoil
+1 Crucible
Or would a MB crucible make more sense, and if so what would you recommend? *updated the list above*
I meant interaction in any form whatsoever really whether it is counterspells or removal. As FanTan pointed out, epiphany is going to sit as a dead card the majority of the time. It looks good from afar, but when I play with it I'm consistently disappointed.
Given those changes I think the list looks really cool though and I'm interested to hear how it works for you. I've never run the gifts package but always wanted to give it a shot. It's just so damn hard to cut even a single card to make room for it
1. Naya Nahiri - (2-0)
Game 1 - Lots of early counter and kill interaction, keeping the board cleanish. He eventually resolves some stuff, but I have Tron and get my threats online and overwhelm him eventually.
Game 2 - He mulls to 5, gets land screwed, GG.
For fun Game 3 - He gets me down into single digits, but can't close it out, as I get Tron online, draw into my removal, then land threats.
2. Affinity - (2-1)
Game 1 - He did Affinity things.
Game 2 - On the play, Chalice on 0. T2, Chalice on 1. Find a threat, find another Chalice, play it on 2, play a Wurmcoil, GG.
Game 3 - I bounce and kill things into T4, when I get Tron, with Wurmcoil and Chalice in hand. Chalice on 1, then Wurmcoil. I learned after the game that the Chalice locked out his entire hand and everything he drew from that point onward. Yay luck.
3. BW Tokens - (2-1)
Game 1 - Lots of counters and bounce, until I ran into an EE, while in single digit life. Wipe the board, into a Tolaria Transmute for an Academy Ruins, then Slaver lock.
Game 2 - Kept recurring EE with Academy, until he resolved a Stony Silence, followed by a RIP
Game 3 - Natural Tron with Treasure Mage and a Wurmcoil in hand. GG
4. Mono W Taxes - (Split for prizes - play for kicks 1-1)
Game 1 - We both draw the game out a while, but he gets the threats down and takes it.
Game 2 - I get early Tron and Wurmcoils. He resolves a lot of bounce creatures, but I eventually eek out the win.
Game 3 - TBD - We were both tired and had enough for the night, having already split prizes.
So, it’s not just me who is putting up results at fnm and such. The deck really rocks, except when we’re paired against very difficult archetypes to face. Ballista is being an all star since its introduction.
Went 3-1 the week before as well with the same list, so, no, the deck definitely can put up good results, but it has a huge learning curve, imo.
Another Tournament report, I'm going to try to do this often unless you guys really dont' want me too haha.I went 2-1 which is fine. We have a lot really good players that only play tier 1 or a smaller amoutn of people playing budget/brew decks. It was a very small turn out of 6 people. I expect the rest of the summer. It is a college town and most of the people at this lgs are students.
Changed up the list a little bit, I moved my 2nd Wurmcoil Engine to the main and added a 2nd Walking Ballista. -1 Trinket Mage and -1 Sundering Titan. I was thinking about trying out Karn, Scion of Urza and was talking about it before Saturday Night Modern. My friend let me borrow one, so I subbed out Solemn Simulacrum. I figured these are probably in the same spot of the deck.
Round 1 Ponza 0-2
Game One: I mulled to five kept a 2 lander with a condescend and 2 thirsts. I never cast the thirst. Thats about how the game went haha.
SB: IN - 2 Spatial Contortion, 1 Chalice of the Void, 1 Spreading seas. OUT - 2 Expedition Map, -1 Remand, -1 Mind Slaver. I don't know why I didn't board in my All is Dust, I guess I figured I wouldn't get that far. I shouldn't have brought in the 2nd chalice as even on the play I can't cast it till turn 2 and they get there one drop by then.
Game two: kept a decent 7 and managed to fend off the first couple molten rains. Played Karn on turn 5 with counter spell back up. He drew a couple cards and then I did some fancy stuff to try to kill a bbe. After the snap and bbe died.. he beat me down with an arbor elf after resolving a bloodmoon. I drew zero counters spells after the first two condescends and died after he resolved an Inferno Titan.
Question(s) though:
1. I see further back a lot of people are beating ponza 2-0 multiple times. What is the secret or what cards should I be focusing on having in my opener?
2. How do you all feel about Karn, Scion of Urza? He definitly felt okay but i think it might be better to just have another piece of interation or something more proactive.
I don't run Spreading Seas, but it can be useful against Ponza because their Utopia Sprawl(s) will fall off a forest. Otherwise just keep hands with lots of lands and/or counters. They don't have many threats, which can buy you time sometimes.
Karn doesn't make much sense to me. What role is he filling? He's slow and hardly impacts the board. His "ultimate" is pretty anemic, and his card draw generally gets you the worst cards from the top of your deck. We're not great at protecting him either, although he does have a lot of loyalty which is a plus. Then again, we have to tap out for him. It's always exciting to see new cards, but I think Karn has no role in this deck.
Thanks guys that's about how I felt too on both answers. He probably only felt okay because I basically had already won the game when he did resolve. I do hardly counter moon anymore, only when I don't have an actual island for a blue source. I'll play solemn again for now but I might consider just playing another spatial or the 4th remand instead.
Eldrazi stompy (2-0)
This has been a very strong matchup for me. Wurmcoil is pretty hard for them to beat and their chalices are underwhelming.
Affinity (2-1)
EE and the spot removal are good enough to pick them apart and win both post board games.
Utron (2-1)
Intersting list running fabricate and big karn. Spell pierce crucible and little karn all preformed well.
Eldrazi Tron (2-0)
The other matchup where little karn did a lot of work for me. I was able to swing a stalled board state in my favour by creating constructs and growing them with talismans and an un cracked map.
Humans (2-1)
Dismember spatial and repeal buy me time to resolve ugin.
Overall I was impressed with Karn and the heavy spot removal package paid dividends against humans affinity and etron.
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Cryptic command is one hell of a card, super flexible that can handle almost every situation and especially creatures, big or small that u tron usually have problem with. Problem is of course the triple blue mana cost.
What do you think of trying to run the deck with more mana rocks or more spheres/stars like regular tron to fix the mana? Is it worth the payoff?
As i said... just a random though. Anyone tried something like this out? Would it be 3-4 auto include if it was only 1-2 blue and rest colorless? Just feels a little bad to skip one, if not the, of the most powerful cards in blue.
1 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Treasure Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
Planeswalkers
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Spells
4 Condescend
1 Noxious Revival
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Remand
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Gifts Ungiven
Artifacts
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
1 Talisman of Dominance
2 Talisman of Progress
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Mindslaver
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 River of Tears
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tolaria West
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Spreading Seas
2 Dismember
2 Unwind
2 Aetherize
1 Jester's Cap
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 All Is Dust
Would love some help/feedback on my first draft
Also, I would run a crucible somewhere in the 75 with the gifts ungiven
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
But I don't think me not knowing 1 card's interaction makes me ignorant of how to use Gifts Ungiven. That just makes me admittedly ignorant of how Crucible fits, which was why I sought to rectify that by asking anyone familiar with an answer.
And thank you! I originally had a Sundering (and Supreme Wills) in the main but I think I took it out for Epiphany and a MB Chalice. It's tough I've gotten suggestions from every which direction that kind of pull all sorts of places, which is also the beauty of the deck and why it appealed to me so much.
And for Noxious, I have it this Gifts line: Ugin, Expedition Map, Mindslaver, Noxious Revival, but in general it's just a really good synergistic "Blank" 4th slot for Gifts.
So I guess the thing to do is:
MB
-2 Epiphany
+1 Wurmcoil
+1 Dismember
SB
-1 Wurmcoil
+1 Crucible
Or would a MB crucible make more sense, and if so what would you recommend? *updated the list above*
Given those changes I think the list looks really cool though and I'm interested to hear how it works for you. I've never run the gifts package but always wanted to give it a shot. It's just so damn hard to cut even a single card to make room for it
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
6 Island
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Ghost Quarter
2 River of Tears
1 Tolaria West
Creatures:
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
2 Walking Ballista
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Dismember
1 Gifts Ungiven
3 Remand
2 Repeal
1 Spatial Contortion
4 Thirst for Knowledge
Artifacts:
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
Planeswalkers:
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Dismember
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Field of Ruin
1. Naya Nahiri - (2-0)
Game 1 - Lots of early counter and kill interaction, keeping the board cleanish. He eventually resolves some stuff, but I have Tron and get my threats online and overwhelm him eventually.
Game 2 - He mulls to 5, gets land screwed, GG.
For fun Game 3 - He gets me down into single digits, but can't close it out, as I get Tron online, draw into my removal, then land threats.
2. Affinity - (2-1)
Game 1 - He did Affinity things.
Game 2 - On the play, Chalice on 0. T2, Chalice on 1. Find a threat, find another Chalice, play it on 2, play a Wurmcoil, GG.
Game 3 - I bounce and kill things into T4, when I get Tron, with Wurmcoil and Chalice in hand. Chalice on 1, then Wurmcoil. I learned after the game that the Chalice locked out his entire hand and everything he drew from that point onward. Yay luck.
3. BW Tokens - (2-1)
Game 1 - Lots of counters and bounce, until I ran into an EE, while in single digit life. Wipe the board, into a Tolaria Transmute for an Academy Ruins, then Slaver lock.
Game 2 - Kept recurring EE with Academy, until he resolved a Stony Silence, followed by a RIP
Game 3 - Natural Tron with Treasure Mage and a Wurmcoil in hand. GG
4. Mono W Taxes - (Split for prizes - play for kicks 1-1)
Game 1 - We both draw the game out a while, but he gets the threats down and takes it.
Game 2 - I get early Tron and Wurmcoils. He resolves a lot of bounce creatures, but I eventually eek out the win.
Game 3 - TBD - We were both tired and had enough for the night, having already split prizes.
Went 3-1 the week before as well with the same list, so, no, the deck definitely can put up good results, but it has a huge learning curve, imo.
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
In all reality though, I'd love to see that list. I've only played against Karn in drafts so far but he really does do quite a lot
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
I hear ya, I have mine foiled out but only 1 Foil Karn so it hurts my eyes to have the non-Foil.
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
Shoks list that he ran today in the challenge.
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
6 Island
1 Tolaria West
2 Field of Ruin
1 Academy Ruins
2 River Of Tears
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
Creatures (7)
2 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
Spells (18)
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
3 Remand
1 Dismember
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Supreme Will
4 Thirst For Knowledge
Artifacts(8)
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Mindslaver
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Hangarback Walker
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spreading Seas
2 Negate
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Spatial Contortion
2 Dismember
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 All is Dust
Changed up the list a little bit, I moved my 2nd Wurmcoil Engine to the main and added a 2nd Walking Ballista. -1 Trinket Mage and -1 Sundering Titan. I was thinking about trying out Karn, Scion of Urza and was talking about it before Saturday Night Modern. My friend let me borrow one, so I subbed out Solemn Simulacrum. I figured these are probably in the same spot of the deck.
Round 1 Ponza 0-2
Game One: I mulled to five kept a 2 lander with a condescend and 2 thirsts. I never cast the thirst. Thats about how the game went haha.
SB: IN - 2 Spatial Contortion, 1 Chalice of the Void, 1 Spreading seas. OUT - 2 Expedition Map, -1 Remand, -1 Mind Slaver. I don't know why I didn't board in my All is Dust, I guess I figured I wouldn't get that far. I shouldn't have brought in the 2nd chalice as even on the play I can't cast it till turn 2 and they get there one drop by then.
Game two: kept a decent 7 and managed to fend off the first couple molten rains. Played Karn on turn 5 with counter spell back up. He drew a couple cards and then I did some fancy stuff to try to kill a bbe. After the snap and bbe died.. he beat me down with an arbor elf after resolving a bloodmoon. I drew zero counters spells after the first two condescends and died after he resolved an Inferno Titan.
Rounds 2 and 3: Lantern 2-0 both rounds
Game One: This matchup feels extremely favored for us. Both rounds I resolved platinum angel after EE for 1 destroying everything.
SB: IN - 1 Chalice of the Void, 2 Surgical Extraction, 2 Negate, 1 Sorcerous Spyglass. OUT - 2 Wurmcoil Engine, 1 Remand, 1 Expedition Map, -1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon , -1 Dismember
Game Two: Repeat game one.
Question(s) though:
1. I see further back a lot of people are beating ponza 2-0 multiple times. What is the secret or what cards should I be focusing on having in my opener?
2. How do you all feel about Karn, Scion of Urza? He definitly felt okay but i think it might be better to just have another piece of interation or something more proactive.
Karn doesn't make much sense to me. What role is he filling? He's slow and hardly impacts the board. His "ultimate" is pretty anemic, and his card draw generally gets you the worst cards from the top of your deck. We're not great at protecting him either, although he does have a lot of loyalty which is a plus. Then again, we have to tap out for him. It's always exciting to see new cards, but I think Karn has no role in this deck.
1 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Spells (17)
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Remand
2 Dismember
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Expedition Map
2 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Mindslaver
Lands (23)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gemstone Caverns
5 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 River of Tears
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tolaria West
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Field of Ruin
2 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Spatial Contortion
2 Spreading Seas
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dismember
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Eldrazi stompy (2-0)
This has been a very strong matchup for me. Wurmcoil is pretty hard for them to beat and their chalices are underwhelming.
Affinity (2-1)
EE and the spot removal are good enough to pick them apart and win both post board games.
Utron (2-1)
Intersting list running fabricate and big karn. Spell pierce crucible and little karn all preformed well.
Eldrazi Tron (2-0)
The other matchup where little karn did a lot of work for me. I was able to swing a stalled board state in my favour by creating constructs and growing them with talismans and an un cracked map.
Humans (2-1)
Dismember spatial and repeal buy me time to resolve ugin.
Overall I was impressed with Karn and the heavy spot removal package paid dividends against humans affinity and etron.