I realize the UU cost can still be steep for us, but a hard counter for UU with a Mage on the field is exceptional.
Also, Navigator's Compass as a possible mana fixer, occupying the space(s) that Talisman(s) usually occupy? 1 CMC for 3 life + making Urza lands into U sources, or any land into another color for purposes of pumping Engineered Explosives, and, if needed, tutor-able off of Trinket Mage, seems like a much better deal...
I realize the UU cost can still be steep for us, but a hard counter for UU with a Mage on the field is exceptional.
Also, Navigator's Compass as a possible mana fixer, occupying the space(s) that Talisman(s) usually occupy? 1 CMC for 3 life + making Urza lands into U sources, or any land into another color for purposes of pumping Engineered Explosives, and, if needed, tutor-able off of Trinket Mage, seems like a much better deal...
Not much of a fan of either, tbh. Double blue is prohibitive for us, and it'd have to be in the condescend or remand slots. Given how often condescend is a hard counter for us, I don't see the upside in making it harder to cast AND losing the scry.
As to the other, I could see it as an explosives enabler maybe, but losing the ramp aspect of the talisman hurts (especially since turn 3 solemn or chalice on 2 is a pretty strong play for us). Honestly, the version I'm currently running isn't running talisman at all so I'd be hard put to find a spot.
UW control and grixis control are bad matchups for us now. 4 mainboard FoR destroys us, and its almost impossible for us to win a counter war without tron. Jace and Azcanta are way too good against us, we can't come back from 2 brainstorms/azcanta activations. The MU only gets worst postboard.
EE, trinket mage and ballista continue to underperform for me. Every time I have trinket mage I wished it were a treasure mage. Being able to get a wurmcoil or slaver is far superior than have a 3-4 power ballista.
I have noticed that the matchup is more competitive than I expected, but I've still come out on top most times I've faced them so far. In general, I win when I can get into Tron quickly, or fight my way to threat + counterspell. Field of Ruin is annoying, but it hasn't sunk me; conversely, I've also used my own fields to shut down their manlands and flipped Azcantas.
I hear you on Trinket Mage being somewhat underwhelming, though; you could talk me into dumping it and just running more Ballistae/Chalices in the main.
About the same reason as Grixis, except they have more counterspells. Azcanta/Jace both pull them way ahead of us and gives them a stronger late game than us by having cheaper threats and more counterspells. We're not competitve without tron in these matchups and its not hard for them to keep us off it
Y’all crazy. Control matches have definitely gotten closer but we are still the apex predator.
Crucibl of worlds in the 75 helps both these matches. Know their strategy. The main way they win is landing an early threat and out tempo-ing us. Do the same to them. Or have spatial for their threats. UW lists have been running resto angel... be prepared. ¯\_(..)_/¯.
Y’all crazy. Control matches have definitely gotten closer but we are still the apex predator.
Crucibl of worlds in the 75 helps both these matches. Know their strategy. The main way they win is landing an early threat and out tempo-ing us. Do the same to them. Or have spatial for their threats. UW lists have been running resto angel... be prepared. ¯\_(..)_/¯.
This has been my experience as well. Crucible in particular helps the 4 Field of Ruin matchups quite a bit.
May actually look at switching back towards a gifts build because of how good they've been for me.
Congrat's on your finish.
I'm curious about your deck list, is it the one where you don't play tolaria west nor gemstone caverns?
If so, did you miss them at some point? I feel like I want to play more field of ruins but I'm a bit reluctant to cut my other lands...
Nowadays, I feel like cyclonic rift is a bit underwhelming at times, do you still play it? What's your thought about it?
Are you still playing 2 thirst for knowledge? Do you miss them?
Did your sideboard change? If it didn't, how were the surgical extraction when you boarded them in?
Did jund played bloodbraid elf? If so, how annoying was it?
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"He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged."
Yeah, I also play 2 Ugin, the spirit dragon and also 2 oblivion stone ans 2 Wurmcoil engine in my main. The Jund match'up has become slightly worse, but I'm still favored. The elf is a real pain though... I may start testing the surgical extraction soon, I like the idea. I'll also jam a second field of ruins for sure.
I totally agree on the dismember maindeck, having a fast answer is really important, I only run 2 MD myself, but I have 2 more in my sideboard now.
Thanks for the feedback
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"He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged."
The thing I'm debating of late is Trinket Mage's place in the deck. Tutoring for Chalice and Ballista is often clunky as compared to actually having them in hand, and I have 2 Tolaria West for virtual copies of the cards. I also am rarely (if ever) tutoring for Maps. I think I'll try cutting them in order to bump my 2nd Ballista and 2nd Chalice to the maindeck and see what happens. That said... I'm kind of debating what should take their place in the sideboard. I don't think I need Chalices 3-4, but maybe? Or maybe this is my chance to incorporate those Negates I always wanted to test... here's my list, in case anyone has suggestions.
This list is going in a direction I have toyed with of late, which is to consolidate my finishers into Wurmcoil and Mindslaver (which are almost always the best cards in the deck), and go all-in on Chalice. I'll probably mess around with more Chalices and see how those do.
Sorry, my bad. I didn't know it's on porpuse. Smile
It's all about stabilizing the mana base. (To me anyway ^^ )
When you play 24 lands and 60 cards main, you're often manascrewed.
When you play 25 lands and 60 cards main, you're often manaflooded.
One option to solve the problem is to play 25 lands and 61 cards main.
I was quite reluctant to do so, but it improved my starting hands, and lessened the number of mulligan I had to take.
Right now, I play 9 blue sources, 1 gemstone caverns and 2 field of ruins. I wonder if that's enough blue sources. I hate to go below 10 sources, but my build now includes 2 fields and 2 solemn simulacrum... Testings in the next few days will say if I'm wrong to do so...
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"He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged."
But you are less consistent overall. You are less likely to assemble tron, or draw any specific card. There's a reason 99% of the time you stick with the card minimum.
That's right, and that's why I was very reluctant to do so. Yet, when I look at the proportion of differents cards in the deck (not looking at probabilities, just proportions in percentage), I have this (not sure if the copy/paste works):
It doesn't seem like the proportion of card between 60 and 61 cards are significantly different, yet, there are indeed less chance of me drawing the right card when I need it, but is it significant?
61 cards maindeck is what I'm testing right know, after a long time testing with 60 cards. I tend to take less mulligans, but I also tend to draw more lands mid/late games. I tend to discard 2 lands on a thirst more often, so you have a good point there.
I agree that 99% of the time, we should stick with the minimum, I'm just not 100% sure that I don't fit in this 1% right now. As always, testing will tell me if I'm wrong, and believe me, I've tested so many configurations with this deck in the past, I've already been very very wrong several times, but it's good to learn from mistakes as well
I probably need to test a bit more to measure the impact on the mulligans versus the impact on the fact that I'm more susceptible to draw a land mid/late game than an active card...
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"He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged."
So your argument is that the percentage only changes a little bit, and that games go long.
First point makes no sense, as you are correct the change is small, but that applies to your perceived "better mana base" as well as the less consistency. So you can either say the better mana base matters or the percentage points barely change. You can't say both, that's hypocrisy and double standard.
Second of all about games going long: quite a few matchups only go long when we make them. If you don't find that Hurkyl's Recall in your top 10 cards the affinity match won't go long.
I am not saying you are wrong, perhaps the mana base is better, but for me the advantage is questionable while the disadvantage is obvious.
Long time lurker, first time poster here. Salutes.
To me the best argument here to go 61 comes from the fact that we run a lot of 1-ofs that we want to tutor (and we are able to). So running that extra card that you would otherwise never see in a game, makes sense now, since by adding it 1 time you can obtain it in, let's say, 5 different ways. On the other hand, by cutting your 4 condescends lets say, you REALLY lose consistency (apply this logic to all the cards you dont want to lose). Does this make any sense to you guys? I am not 100% sold.
Manawise, I side with pierakor. Negligible effects are negligible both ways, not only the one that favours our point.
uh,silly discussions... i play 61 semi-often post board, but not MB ever... leave it at that.
another 5-0 recently. deck feels good even with the tough matches... hollow one human, and affninity are going decent enough... weirdly i keepy losing to storm cause the whole sb is going to aggro/creatures matches basically. oh well.
definitely come around to nimble obstructionist over TKS though, so versatile and cant be countered! ... love it.
I realize the UU cost can still be steep for us, but a hard counter for UU with a Mage on the field is exceptional.
Also, Navigator's Compass as a possible mana fixer, occupying the space(s) that Talisman(s) usually occupy? 1 CMC for 3 life + making Urza lands into U sources, or any land into another color for purposes of pumping Engineered Explosives, and, if needed, tutor-able off of Trinket Mage, seems like a much better deal...
Not much of a fan of either, tbh. Double blue is prohibitive for us, and it'd have to be in the condescend or remand slots. Given how often condescend is a hard counter for us, I don't see the upside in making it harder to cast AND losing the scry.
As to the other, I could see it as an explosives enabler maybe, but losing the ramp aspect of the talisman hurts (especially since turn 3 solemn or chalice on 2 is a pretty strong play for us). Honestly, the version I'm currently running isn't running talisman at all so I'd be hard put to find a spot.
I will bring this list to this weekends GP Amsterdam to take on every Modern SideEvent:
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Remand
3 Repeal
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Supreme Will
Walker:
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creatures:
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Platinum Angel
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Walking Ballista
1 Sundering Titan
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Expedition Map
1 Mindslaver
2 Oblivion Stone
Lands:
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruin
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Tolaria West
1 River of Tears
7 Island
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Mindslaver
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spreading Seas
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Dismember
2 Summary Dismissal
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Negate
This is basically my list from MKM Frankfurt in January with a few tweaks. I´ll keep you guys updated how the weekend goes.
Greets
Max
UTron
EE, trinket mage and ballista continue to underperform for me. Every time I have trinket mage I wished it were a treasure mage. Being able to get a wurmcoil or slaver is far superior than have a 3-4 power ballista.
I hear you on Trinket Mage being somewhat underwhelming, though; you could talk me into dumping it and just running more Ballistae/Chalices in the main.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Crucibl of worlds in the 75 helps both these matches. Know their strategy. The main way they win is landing an early threat and out tempo-ing us. Do the same to them. Or have spatial for their threats. UW lists have been running resto angel... be prepared. ¯\_(..)_/¯.
This has been my experience as well. Crucible in particular helps the 4 Field of Ruin matchups quite a bit.
May actually look at switching back towards a gifts build because of how good they've been for me.
I'm curious about your deck list, is it the one where you don't play tolaria west nor gemstone caverns?
If so, did you miss them at some point? I feel like I want to play more field of ruins but I'm a bit reluctant to cut my other lands...
Nowadays, I feel like cyclonic rift is a bit underwhelming at times, do you still play it? What's your thought about it?
Are you still playing 2 thirst for knowledge? Do you miss them?
Did your sideboard change? If it didn't, how were the surgical extraction when you boarded them in?
Did jund played bloodbraid elf? If so, how annoying was it?
I totally agree on the dismember maindeck, having a fast answer is really important, I only run 2 MD myself, but I have 2 more in my sideboard now.
Thanks for the feedback
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
It's all about stabilizing the mana base. (To me anyway ^^ )
When you play 24 lands and 60 cards main, you're often manascrewed.
When you play 25 lands and 60 cards main, you're often manaflooded.
One option to solve the problem is to play 25 lands and 61 cards main.
I was quite reluctant to do so, but it improved my starting hands, and lessened the number of mulligan I had to take.
Right now, I play 9 blue sources, 1 gemstone caverns and 2 field of ruins. I wonder if that's enough blue sources. I hate to go below 10 sources, but my build now includes 2 fields and 2 solemn simulacrum... Testings in the next few days will say if I'm wrong to do so...
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
It doesn't seem like the proportion of card between 60 and 61 cards are significantly different, yet, there are indeed less chance of me drawing the right card when I need it, but is it significant?
61 cards maindeck is what I'm testing right know, after a long time testing with 60 cards. I tend to take less mulligans, but I also tend to draw more lands mid/late games. I tend to discard 2 lands on a thirst more often, so you have a good point there.
I agree that 99% of the time, we should stick with the minimum, I'm just not 100% sure that I don't fit in this 1% right now. As always, testing will tell me if I'm wrong, and believe me, I've tested so many configurations with this deck in the past, I've already been very very wrong several times, but it's good to learn from mistakes as well
I probably need to test a bit more to measure the impact on the mulligans versus the impact on the fact that I'm more susceptible to draw a land mid/late game than an active card...
First point makes no sense, as you are correct the change is small, but that applies to your perceived "better mana base" as well as the less consistency. So you can either say the better mana base matters or the percentage points barely change. You can't say both, that's hypocrisy and double standard.
Second of all about games going long: quite a few matchups only go long when we make them. If you don't find that Hurkyl's Recall in your top 10 cards the affinity match won't go long.
I am not saying you are wrong, perhaps the mana base is better, but for me the advantage is questionable while the disadvantage is obvious.
Youtube Channel
My stream:
www.twitch.tv/pierakor
My Disco:
https://discord.gg/gTt6xHd
To me the best argument here to go 61 comes from the fact that we run a lot of 1-ofs that we want to tutor (and we are able to). So running that extra card that you would otherwise never see in a game, makes sense now, since by adding it 1 time you can obtain it in, let's say, 5 different ways. On the other hand, by cutting your 4 condescends lets say, you REALLY lose consistency (apply this logic to all the cards you dont want to lose). Does this make any sense to you guys? I am not 100% sold.
Manawise, I side with pierakor. Negligible effects are negligible both ways, not only the one that favours our point.
another 5-0 recently. deck feels good even with the tough matches... hollow one human, and affninity are going decent enough... weirdly i keepy losing to storm cause the whole sb is going to aggro/creatures matches basically. oh well.
definitely come around to nimble obstructionist over TKS though, so versatile and cant be countered! ... love it.
i had a funny league that i went 2-3, beat burn twice, but lost to storm x2 and boggles, inverted universe i suppose. lol.