Well i just went 4-1 in a comp league with the list I posted on the previous page. I SHOULD have 5-0'd if it weren't for a massive punt game 3 against jund in my 5th match. So I'd just count it as me going 5-0 haha
v. Eggs 2-1 Jace was amazing here. I slavered him G2 and sac'd all his ***** with slaver then jace ult'd
v. Affinity 2-1 close match here but engines saved the day
v. Jund 2-0 Crushed it. not much to say
v. UB Control 2-0 Crushed again. Jace was incredible. game 2 I ended the game with 30 life, an engine in play, and a jace at 7 and an ugin at 9. He had 0 nonland permanents. It was sicknasty.
v. Jund 1-2 PUNT PUNT PUNT I cracked under pressure here. Game 1 i destroyed like we always do. Game 2 he drew 3/3 fulms 3 turns in a row and then bought one back with a lili. needless to say, I died with 2 lands left. G3 was frustrating. he drew EVERY answer. k commanded elves twice, drew 3 total, drew his grudge on time against wurm. So at the end i'm at 11 and he's at 5 i condescend and see a mine and ugin on top. I miscount lands because the clock is ticking down and i bottom the land i need. draw ugin, he plays lily and makes me discard it. if i draw the land first and play it, he plays lily, I go down to 6 and win off ugin next turn. SIGH.
In any case, some observations:
Our deck is VERY well positioned right now and it felt fantastic. the one of Jace is staying for sure. he was ******* FANTASTIC. he wone me at least 3 games by himself. I want to make room for a 2nd but unsure what to cut. For now, I like my list and wouldn't change anything. the spyglass in the board is nice to have because of all the lilies and jaces running around. it also hits key cards in other matchups like karn or inkmoth. Wurmcoil engine continues to be an allstar and slaver is quite good right now. I won a few games off the back of sundering titan so that answers that. Negate was also great and I really like having it as a clean answer in control/midrange matchups. All in all I am VERY happy with my list and i should have 5-0d if I didn't crack under clock pressure. List again below for reference:
// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Mindslaver
1 Talisman of Dominance
// 24 Land
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 River of Tears
1 Tolaria West
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tectonic Edge
// 2 Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
This is a slower metagame right now so negate is better. In faster metas with low to the ground decks, I think pierce is better. But I prefer negate RN. The other thing is that sometimes you wanna chalice on 1 against control to cut off paths and cantrips. When you do that, you can't play pierce. And you're right, there's not much room. That's why I'll probably stick with 1 jace. It was the solemn/gifts flex spot and jace is just so much better at doing what those two cards do. Two is probably overkill tho. I think 1 is perfect. Spyglass is the flex in my board rn. I wanna see how it works but may cut it for the 3rd contortion or something similar if aggro is on the rise.
I wasn‘t sure because of decks that might want to go below Jace. Pierce could also provide cheap protection for our own Jace (triple U feels difficult however). Completely missed Chalice though - I play 4 in the 75 myself. 2 Jaces replace both Solemns in my deck, I‘m curious if it will work out. Maybe I‘ll find some time tomorrow to post my decklist.
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Modern: Death&Taxes / U Tron / G Tron / Goblins
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
I was tinkering around our beloved deck, I was trying to reduce the number of blue sources we need to run the deck and also add more early game cards, so here is my new list and the reasoning behind each part:
Finally, I think Gifts Ungiven is on a flex spot, it serves whatever roll we need and makes Snapcaster Mage way better. I also think it is on the spot that Torrential Gearhulk covers in many list serving as a "win more card". Obviously one has a body (with is super important) and the other don't need to set up the graveyard to be useful (with is also super important). If i don't drop it for another copy of Supreme Will or a Torrential Gearhulk I may add a Crucible of Worlds on the side but i'm not sure about it.
Pretty standard here, running 7 "game winning threats", the only non commonly use card is Batterskull instead of the second Wurmcoil Engine because of several reasons, but the most important for me is that it cost 5 instead of 6 and this is very important. There are many games where i finally get tron with turn 4 by tapping a mine or power plant + island and i'm left with only 5 mana and a Batterskull is just perfect for that situation. It also works wonders with Walking Ballista. (It is nice to have the option to get it with Gifts Ungiven in addition to Wurmcoil Engine)
if playing jace, i recommend playing T.mages of sorts for blockers... curves pretty well for a non tron hand. untapping with jace and counter magic is legit.
also recommend 3-4 fetches with jace. and F.o.R over tec edge. just to fetch basics. need to cut river of tears, and oboro to play the fetches well.
I could see that if you're playing 3-4 jace but just 1 doesn't really justify this. Oboro is also great for getting UU. And if you think about it, the deck plays 4 map, 1 tolaria west, and 2 mages together with academy ruins to get back maps, all of which shuffle.
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Standard: Bant Approach, Grixis Control
Modern: Mono U Tron, Ajundi, Ad Nauseam, TITI Moon, GR Ponza, 5C Humans
Legacy: Lands, Mono Red Sneak, 4C Loam
I see many posting about the inclusion of Jace, so here is a shot list of pros and cons to consider.
Pros:
It's a win condition if not answer
Help us dig to find ways to protect or other stuff we need
Fate seal is too strong if the board is already stabilize probably auto win
Can defend itself from a creature
Planes walkers dodge many removal spells that our other finishers has to be protected from
Cons:
It works at sorcery speed, I know that most of our big dudes work at this speed but most of then are colorless, the only exception is Torrential Gearhulk with cost 2 blue but it works at instant speed.
If there are more than one creature on the board chances are that we wont untap with him still on the board, or untap at all
Double blue is hard, very hard, the average list has like 8~ blue sources so if we have tron + a blue source we can't cast him, let alone cast plus protect and that is the reason most of our finishers are colorless.
He is good only when we already wining or the board is already stabilized, we want to play Wurmcoil Engine, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon because they instantly stabilize the board and Jece does not.
I think Jace can be an interesting addition as a one off, but not as win condition or dig spell, but more as a nice thing to top deck late game most of the time.
My only problem with JTMS is that I feel like it's gonna be tough for us to protect him to get value. And I think the games where he will win us the game, we would probably win without him anyways.
Speaking of the meta-shift, I think here are some cards to consider in the 75:
- Negate: I think Negate is at a great spot right now, especially combined with Chalice on 1.
- Spellskite: I think it's back to being good again with the meta shifting towards aggro. Also protects our vital artifacts from BBE -> K-Command.
- Spreading Seas: It's probably at its best place right now and into the next few months where people will play greedy mana-bases to play JTMS or play decks that have BBE in it (Jund, Temur, etc). Also great against Burn, which is becoming FotM.
- Batterskull: Lots of decks play Path to Exile right now and I think Batterskull could come back as our 2nd or 3rd Wurmcoil Engine.
- All is Dust: E-Tron and Affinity has taken quite a bit of damage from the unbans and I think this card is actually a good option for us. Goes behind Stony Silence and Meddling Mage (since most people don't anticipate this card). Also could be bought back with Snapcaster.
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Decks
Modern
Mono U-Tron U
Jeskai Control UWR
EDH
Ezuri, Renegade Leader UG
Tasigur, the Golden Fang UGB
Agree I also think that a copy of Engineered Explosives main deck will become a necessity, because aggro will be on the raise to fight all the "new" JTMS decks.
Also Spatial Contortion will be very important, the only problem I have with it is that does nothing against many commonly play threats like tarmos, so maybe Dismember will become more valuable.
I think 2 dismembers or 2 spatials will be great. I am starting to lean on the idea that 2x jace will be way strong.... drop solemn and 2nd snapcaster ( i run 2) and just the power of dropping a must answer threat early means our 6 drops will resolve more than not. I see jace as a must answer card that we should be jamming for the sake of removal and life gain. 4 mana brainstorm that fogs the opponent and as the potential to end the game seems good. Thoughts?
I've been playing the deck for a few months now and, for whatever reason, seem to consistently have an issue against Traverse Shadow. The problem I seem to have is, I can stall the game out for a fair number of turns, but their deck is quite good at drawing and has a very low curve, allowing them to eventually flood the stack / board against me.
Is there specific sideboard deck or a plan against this deck?
Obviously, I would think, my core list is the same as everyone else's, with the typical 5-7 slots of flex that may be different in the MB. My SB is a mash between Pierakor's and Shok's.
So, I'm just looking for any first hand experience that folks have had against this deck. What worked? What didn't? Etc.
Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
I've been playing the deck for a few months now and, for whatever reason, seem to consistently have an issue against Traverse Shadow. The problem I seem to have is, I can stall the game out for a fair number of turns, but their deck is quite good at drawing and has a very low curve, allowing them to eventually flood the stack / board against me.
Is there specific sideboard deck or a plan against this deck?
Obviously, I would think, my core list is the same as everyone else's, with the typical 5-7 slots of flex that may be different in the MB. My SB is a mash between Pierakor's and Shok's.
So, I'm just looking for any first hand experience that folks have had against this deck. What worked? What didn't? Etc.
I’ve had Chalice of the Void work overtime against both versions of DS. Relic of Progenitus should also help vs Goyf‘s, Traverse and their K-Commands recurring creatures.
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Modern: Death&Taxes / U Tron / G Tron / Goblins
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
@Endurr I know Jace needs UU, but only 10 tron pieces? I don't think that's a good idea. 2 Field of Ruin and 2 Talisman seems enough. I mean, we already play snapcaster/gearhulk, there's no problem getting blue.
The reason for less tron lands is that the list is less reliant on tron. I want lots of blue to guarantee jace on t4 as much as humanly possible.
That being said, I think that this jace unban has started pushing my sanity...
I will be playing the following list over the next few days online.
Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
Without having any testing performed myself - doesn‘t slamming Jace T4 beg for a Bolt to his face? My approach would be to not play Jace before T6 without any protection backing him up. Else it‘s just a 4 mana Brainstorm?
EDIT: I overlooked the 4 Chalices MB. Still, going for T4 I‘d probably pack Disrupting Shoals?
played about 20 games with the deck agsint "new jace decks" and other decks and having 2x jace's seems so good. also, jamming turn 4 when they dont have red mana seems right more than not just because now we are off target and buys us an easy turn. im not saying playing him with back up is bad but he is also just a great card to casr due to the power he brings. looks like we may have to invest a bit more in our deck
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v. Eggs 2-1 Jace was amazing here. I slavered him G2 and sac'd all his ***** with slaver then jace ult'd
v. Affinity 2-1 close match here but engines saved the day
v. Jund 2-0 Crushed it. not much to say
v. UB Control 2-0 Crushed again. Jace was incredible. game 2 I ended the game with 30 life, an engine in play, and a jace at 7 and an ugin at 9. He had 0 nonland permanents. It was sicknasty.
v. Jund 1-2 PUNT PUNT PUNT I cracked under pressure here. Game 1 i destroyed like we always do. Game 2 he drew 3/3 fulms 3 turns in a row and then bought one back with a lili. needless to say, I died with 2 lands left. G3 was frustrating. he drew EVERY answer. k commanded elves twice, drew 3 total, drew his grudge on time against wurm. So at the end i'm at 11 and he's at 5 i condescend and see a mine and ugin on top. I miscount lands because the clock is ticking down and i bottom the land i need. draw ugin, he plays lily and makes me discard it. if i draw the land first and play it, he plays lily, I go down to 6 and win off ugin next turn. SIGH.
In any case, some observations:
Our deck is VERY well positioned right now and it felt fantastic. the one of Jace is staying for sure. he was ******* FANTASTIC. he wone me at least 3 games by himself. I want to make room for a 2nd but unsure what to cut. For now, I like my list and wouldn't change anything. the spyglass in the board is nice to have because of all the lilies and jaces running around. it also hits key cards in other matchups like karn or inkmoth. Wurmcoil engine continues to be an allstar and slaver is quite good right now. I won a few games off the back of sundering titan so that answers that. Negate was also great and I really like having it as a clean answer in control/midrange matchups. All in all I am VERY happy with my list and i should have 5-0d if I didn't crack under clock pressure. List again below for reference:
// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Expedition Map
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Mindslaver
1 Talisman of Dominance
// 7 Creature
1 Walking Ballista
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
// 17 Instant
4 Condescend
3 Repeal
1 Cyclonic Rift
3 Remand
1 Supreme Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Dismember
// 24 Land
1 Academy Ruins
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Island
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 River of Tears
1 Tolaria West
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tectonic Edge
// 2 Planeswalker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Wurmcoil Engine
// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Spreading Seas
// 8 Instant
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Dismember
SB: 2 Spatial Contortion
SB: 2 Negate
// 1 Land
SB: 1 Ghost Quarter
// 1 Sorcery
SB: 1 All Is Dust
Modern: Mono U Tron, Ajundi, Ad Nauseam, TITI Moon, GR Ponza, 5C Humans
Legacy: Lands, Mono Red Sneak, 4C Loam
@prdgychild007: Since the banning of Eye of Ugin I‘m not fond of Eldrazi in U-Tron anymore. Mindslaver does the job better by simply being an artifact (tutorable and can be recurred or pitched to Thirst for Knowledge). In my opinion, there’s also not much space for additional wincons left besides Wurmcoil Engine, Mindslaver, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Walking Ballista, Sundering Titan and Platinum Angel as the deck relies on a decent amount of card draw, counters and the 2 sweepers. Where would you cut?
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
Modern: Mono U Tron, Ajundi, Ad Nauseam, TITI Moon, GR Ponza, 5C Humans
Legacy: Lands, Mono Red Sneak, 4C Loam
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
1x Academy Ruins
1x Field of Ruin
1x Gemstone Caverns
3x Island
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x River of Tears
2x Snow-Covered Island
1x Tolaria West
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Planeswalker (1)
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creature (9)
1x Platinum Angel
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Spellskite
1x Sundering Titan
1x Treasure Mage
1x Trinket Mage
1x Walking Ballista
1x Wurmcoil Engine
4x Condescend
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Gifts Ungiven
2x Remand
2x Repeal
1x Spell Burst
1x Supreme Will
4x Thirst for Knowledge
Artifact (10)
1x Batterskull
2x Chalice of the Void
1x Engineered Explosives
4x Expedition Map
1x Mindslaver
1x Oblivion Stone
2x Dismember
1x Field of Ruin
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Jester's Cap
2x Negate
1x Pithing Needle
1x Silent Arbiter
2x Spatial Contortion
2x Spreading Seas
1x Steel Wall
I'm running 24 (8 blue sources) lands without talismans but i think that 25 lands could be better.
Non island U sources:
They are just to maximize the effectiveness of Sundering titan, and in the case of Tolaria West it can transmute for 8 "trinkets".
Black sources
To avoid taking full damage from Dismember and in the case of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to maximize the Sundering Titan destructive potential. They also allow the cast Engineered Explosives with 2 counters.
And finally 2 Snow-Covered Island just for Gifts Ungiven
Pretty standard counter spell package. I like Supreme Will because of the flexibility it brings and maybe ill run one more instead of Gifts Ungiven.
The Expedition Map/Thirst for Knowledge/Treasure Mage/Solemn Simulacrum are the "standard" consistency package that most of us run, the Supreme Will serves as a consistency card 50% of the time and in the case of Trinket Mage i think it is just great considering that it blocks, has many good targets main deck and some more on the side.
Finally, I think Gifts Ungiven is on a flex spot, it serves whatever roll we need and makes Snapcaster Mage way better. I also think it is on the spot that Torrential Gearhulk covers in many list serving as a "win more card". Obviously one has a body (with is super important) and the other don't need to set up the graveyard to be useful (with is also super important). If i don't drop it for another copy of Supreme Will or a Torrential Gearhulk I may add a Crucible of Worlds on the side but i'm not sure about it.
1x Platinum Angel
1x Sundering Titan
1x Walking Ballista
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Mindslaver
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1x Batterskull
Pretty standard here, running 7 "game winning threats", the only non commonly use card is Batterskull instead of the second Wurmcoil Engine because of several reasons, but the most important for me is that it cost 5 instead of 6 and this is very important. There are many games where i finally get tron with turn 4 by tapping a mine or power plant + island and i'm left with only 5 mana and a Batterskull is just perfect for that situation. It also works wonders with Walking Ballista. (It is nice to have the option to get it with Gifts Ungiven in addition to Wurmcoil Engine)
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Cyclonic Rift
2x Repeal
1x Spellskite
Pretty standard here as well the only "rare" card is Spellskite that serves double porpoise:
1# Blocks pesky bastards: Goblin Guide, Monastery Swiftspear
2# Eats removal like Path to Exile but more importantly Kolaghan's Command
My sideboard is still "under construction"
360 Pauper Cube The Trinket Box
PDH Decks
Classic Pauper Decks
also recommend 3-4 fetches with jace. and F.o.R over tec edge. just to fetch basics. need to cut river of tears, and oboro to play the fetches well.
Modern: Mono U Tron, Ajundi, Ad Nauseam, TITI Moon, GR Ponza, 5C Humans
Legacy: Lands, Mono Red Sneak, 4C Loam
Pros:
Cons:
I think Jace can be an interesting addition as a one off, but not as win condition or dig spell, but more as a nice thing to top deck late game most of the time.
360 Pauper Cube The Trinket Box
PDH Decks
Classic Pauper Decks
Speaking of the meta-shift, I think here are some cards to consider in the 75:
- Negate: I think Negate is at a great spot right now, especially combined with Chalice on 1.
- Spellskite: I think it's back to being good again with the meta shifting towards aggro. Also protects our vital artifacts from BBE -> K-Command.
- Spreading Seas: It's probably at its best place right now and into the next few months where people will play greedy mana-bases to play JTMS or play decks that have BBE in it (Jund, Temur, etc). Also great against Burn, which is becoming FotM.
- Batterskull: Lots of decks play Path to Exile right now and I think Batterskull could come back as our 2nd or 3rd Wurmcoil Engine.
- All is Dust: E-Tron and Affinity has taken quite a bit of damage from the unbans and I think this card is actually a good option for us. Goes behind Stony Silence and Meddling Mage (since most people don't anticipate this card). Also could be bought back with Snapcaster.
Modern
Mono U-Tron U
Jeskai Control UWR
EDH
Ezuri, Renegade Leader UG
Tasigur, the Golden Fang UGB
Also Spatial Contortion will be very important, the only problem I have with it is that does nothing against many commonly play threats like tarmos, so maybe Dismember will become more valuable.
360 Pauper Cube The Trinket Box
PDH Decks
Classic Pauper Decks
Running fetches isn’t that bad. It thins the deck out too
Oboroo is nice. And better than river of tears for utility. But is still narrow. So narrow that the times I bounce it are like 1 in 50 games.
Meta shift I’ve noticed is more field of ruin. And spell pierce I would recommend SB currently.
Is there specific sideboard deck or a plan against this deck?
Obviously, I would think, my core list is the same as everyone else's, with the typical 5-7 slots of flex that may be different in the MB. My SB is a mash between Pierakor's and Shok's.
So, I'm just looking for any first hand experience that folks have had against this deck. What worked? What didn't? Etc.
1 Batterskull
2 Chalice of the Void
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
4 Expedition Map
1 Field of Ruin
2 Gemstone Caverns
5 Island
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Mana Leak
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Platinum Angel
1 Remand
2 Repeal
1 River of Tears
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Spatial Contortion
1 Supreme Will
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Tolaria West
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
3 Urza's Mine
3 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Walking Ballista
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Dismember
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
3 Spreading Seas
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
I’ve had Chalice of the Void work overtime against both versions of DS. Relic of Progenitus should also help vs Goyf‘s, Traverse and their K-Commands recurring creatures.
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
The reason for less tron lands is that the list is less reliant on tron. I want lots of blue to guarantee jace on t4 as much as humanly possible.
That being said, I think that this jace unban has started pushing my sanity...
I will be playing the following list over the next few days online.
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruin
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Island
1 River of Tears
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Tolaria West
3 Urza's Mine
3 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
Artifacts (9)
1 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Mindslaver
1 Oblivion Stone
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Condescend
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Mana Leak
1 Remand
2 Repeal
3 Spatial Contortion
1 Supreme Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creatures (6)
1 Platinum Angel
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Dismember
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Negate
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spatial Contortion
2 Spreading Seas
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Wurmcoil Engine
I'm thinking about adding a couple Search for Azcanta.
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
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EDIT: I overlooked the 4 Chalices MB. Still, going for T4 I‘d probably pack Disrupting Shoals?
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif