MTG Salvation

SEE y'all YALl in the morn! maybe we can get balthos in it too...

been playing with one supreme will, like it so far

Pierakor, how do you have a positive win rate against the valkut decks?

How do you not? Just counter Primeval Titan and Scapeshift/Through the Breach? It's one of my best matchups.

Maybe watch me play the matchup?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID7eF6MYAho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBDq1NO3xeo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ErJVP119g8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6mTzgND4js
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmCAu67I6Y4

Quote from Pelikanudo »

Hi I just wanted to share my latest build which performed very good, I really dont post much in here... but I have always loved Shooktroopa style with 2 Solemns and 2 talisman, the rest is quite usual.
I started to test the approach when I saw the ideaof River of tears as the best land producing other color which also fits in BTron.

• // Lands
  
• 4 [CH] Urza's Tower (3)
  
• 7 [BD] Island (3)
  
• 4 [5E] Urza's Power Plant
  
• 4 [5E] Urza's Mine
  
• 1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
  
• 1 [MD1] Ghost Quarter
  
• 4 [FUT] River of Tears
  
• // Creatures
  
• 2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
  
• 1 [ARC] Sundering Titan
  
• 1 [MR] Platinum Angel
  
• 1 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
  
• 2 [MGD] Treasure Mage
  
• // Spells
  
• 3 [GP] Repeal
  
• 4 [RAV] Remand
  
• 4 [DD2] Condescend
  
• 4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
  
• 4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
  
• 1 [CMD] Oblivion Stone
  
• 2 [MR] Mindslaver
  
• 2 [MMA] Chalice of the Void
  
• 1 [UGF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
  
• 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
  
• // Sideboard
  
• SB: 4 [OGW] Spatial Contortion
  
• SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
  
• SB: 2 [CHK] Squelch
  
• SB: 2 [M13] Negate
  
• SB: 3 [FNM] Dismember
  
• SB: 1 [CNS] Silent Arbiter
  
• SB: 1 [DDN] Repeal
  

before the 3 EE main were 2Solemn and 1 taisman the 25th and was the 2nd talisman.
Then I started with 2 Reivers and saw they were good and up to 4 in order to make EE a better card
Noticed that i needed more often than not other sweeper and then went up to +4th repeal which is good vs Stony and DeathShadow.
EDIT: Squelch will become Obstruionist soon, has anyone tested it?
In deed I just dont know why i didnt play EE before... I alays played 3 in side maynly for burn, but now that i can cast them for 2 counters - I feel like it is a must in base.

well if any interested to test the list, this is just a conclusion of list which I recently came up with and i believe it is great.
The only slots in side that im not conviced much are Arbiter which before was filigree and otherinstead of repeal, but as said I found repeal a lot of valuable...

Sure I gave Drdge as lost match up.

suggestions or ideas are welcome.

Please any other feedback on this?
Kharniverous, denFeind or Pierekator?

Thanks.

@Pelikanudo: It's a solid list, I don't know what you want to hear? I like my own list more and my suggestions would just be to play my list but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with your list.

Edit: somebody asked me to write about how I board so here it goes.

UW Ctrl:
-2 Spatial -Angel -Spell Burst -Treasure Mage -Oblivion Stone
+Negate +2 Summary Dismissal +Dismember +Mindslaver +Wurmcoil Engine

If they play Ancestral Vision I play more Chalice (3-4)

Dredge:
-Snapcaster -Gearhulk -2 Solemn -2 Spatial
+2 Grafdiggers Cage +Wurmcoil Engine +Slaver +Gemstone Caverns +Chalice?

Grixis Shadow:
-2 Spatial -Snapcaster -Angel -Supreme Will -2 Remand
+2 Chalice +Wurmcoil +2 Grafdiggers Cage +2 Dismember

UR Storm:
-Cyclonic Rift -2 Spatial -Supreme Will -Gearhulk -Snapcaster -Wurmcoil Engine -2 Solemn -Tectonic Edge -Treasure Mage
+2 Summary Dismissal +2 Chalice +2 Grafdiggers Cage +Slaver +2 Dismember +Negate +Gemstone

RG Titanshift:
-2 Spatial -Cyclonic Rift -Angel -Chalice
+Negate +2 Summary Dismissal +Slaver +Engine


About Chalice:

Titanshift: Chalice can be ok on 0 vs Summoning Pact and 2 vs Ancient Grudge. Chalice not great.
Grixis Shadow: Chalice on 1, gg. Without Chalice it's hard because of Stubborn Denial and Ceremonius Rejection.
Affinity: Chalice on 0 and 2. Chalice is great but often slow. Angel and Chalice on 1 is very strong, usually they cannot beat it (since you draw more counterspells than they draw Ancient Grudge/Dismember...)
EldraziTron: No chalice, is bad.
Burn: 1 and 2. Both are good, actually prefer on 1 lately because new lists are focues more on 1 drops than 2 drops and 2 drops are weaker to our interaction and on 1 hurts us less!
UW Ctrl: Chalice on 0 against AV otherwise 1 to hit Path/Serum Vision/Dispel/Snare/Swang Song...., it's ok.
UR Storm: Chalice on 1 is okay, hurts consistency a lot, and sideboard cards but on 2 is just crazy and they cannot win without removing it usually.
Vizier decks: Is bad, no play.
Gx Tron: Chalice on 1 is good, hurst their consistency a lot.
Ad Naesy: Chalice on 0 and 1 are good, post board I prefer 1, preboard I prefer 0. Both are great.

How about you just roll like me. Play different cards every tournament you play. The core of the deck is bebop and ROCK steady. IF there are lots of aggro, affinity, and the likes load up on EE's, chalices, recalls, whatever your heart desires. I have never been one to tell someone what to play. Follow your heart. If you have hate in your heart, let it out. "nobody makes me bleed my own blood nobody". But I Like your list. Try cutting a chalice, 2x EE, and treasure mage for 2 talisman, fabricate(or a 3rd talisman), and a trinket mage. 1 island for oboro. 1 river for tolaria west. You are loaded the "F" up against aggro with your list.

So my meta has a Mill player and it seems pretty decent with the various new cards printed for mill. I'm thinking of adding a 1x of the OG Eldrazi but can't decide on which one. Ulamog, Infinite Gyro is my initial thought, Kozileck is kinda low impact, and Emrakul feels super uncastable. Anyone have experience with the original three eldrazi in UTron?

I personally play 2x Chalice, 1x EE, 1x Ballista main board along with a Trinket Mage. And then another EE/Ballista in the side. Naya Zoo is still rough, the most important thing is to counter their Burning Tree Emissary so they can't chain multiple creatures into a Reckless Bushwhacker. TKS is also a reasonable sideboard card in the matchup because a 4/4 typically towers over everything they have. Beating Affinity for me is 80% about getting a ballista online. Post board 2 Hurkyl's is fairly standard. Dismember or Repeal in addition to the Ballista can create a huge headache for Ravager activations.

shoktroopa list mtg top 8

I have some data too! This will be relevant for anyone on MTGO.

About me, I have been playing this deck for a year or two now, recently took a break for a while, and have been getting back into it. I play almost exclusively on MTGO and usually in the friendly leagues because this is still a budget build and frankly because I win more there

Firstly, Here is the deck:



Since the release of Hour of Devastation I've been grinding matches on MTGO and keeping track of the results. So far I've played 100 matches. Here they are: http://imgur.com/krmcZWK



I'm pretty happy with my results. On MTGO each league is 5 matches with prizes for a 3-2 record or better (higher than the entry). Out of the 20 leagues I only had a losing record 3 times. Each individual matchup is broken down, but against the most frequent decks I'm able to get a greater than 50% matchwin percentage. The only outlier is affinity (0% matchwin), but I'm going to chalk that up to variance -- It's not that bad a matchup.

Mostly posting here to share my decklist and results in case anyone wanted to see some mtgo data. I'd be happy to discuss my card choices if anyone likes. Like I said this is a bit of a budget build, if I had the money I would buy a third copy of Chalice of the Void and replace the Relics with Surgical Extractions

Not running 4 thirst seems always wrong to me. Its the best card in our deck imo

How good was ulamog for you?

I used to say the same thing, in fact you can read me saying that if you go back to page 200 or something in this thread. But I think modern is getting faster, and there are a lot of fast decks where you can't afford to take turn off from interacting with them. That plus thirst is not a card you want as a 2 of in your opening hand. Here's my Thirst history:

4x Thirst > 3x Thirst + 2x Anticipate > 2x Thirst + 2x Anticipate + 1x Supreme will.

When Supreme will came out a lot of people were talking about it being a replacement for Mana Leak, but that's wrong in my opinion. It's a replacement for Thirst. Hell, it's not that infrequent that "1 of 4" is better than "2 of 3" -- you are often in desperate digging mode for that last tron piece, or a bomb to cast.

Now Ulamog is wonderful, recently he has been prompting as many on the spot concessions as Mindslaver. Since the printing of Fatal Push, decks have been running more of that and less of Path to Exile (also the reason I'm up to 2x Wurmcoil main), so he's Less of a liability now. He's really the jack of all trades -- if you can cast him he will be good verses almost any deck (unlike Darksteal Colossus or even Wurmcoil sometimes).

He costs 10 mana -- same as Mindslaver, but I play online where Mindslaver is less good. (lost a game yesterday to Merfolk after I got the slaver lock, very sad)

But where he really shines is against RG/BG Tron.

This is a matchup which is not great for us, especially if you're unprepared. One of the biggest problems is that their big things to do with tron mana are much better than ours. Very often you both get tron mana and if you're putting out Wurmcoil, and they drop Karn -- you lose. This guy can shore that up for us, you play him and you win on the spot. Of course our number 1 game plan is still to disrupt them and keep them off tron, but if you have a lot of tron in your meta I would advise Ulamog as a backup plan.

I am thinking about going with 3 thirst 1 supreme will. But thirst is such a strong card against decks like deaths shadow and abazan/jund that just tear our hand apart.

I like nimble obstructionist against Gx Tron. It is an odd match up since we are the beat down in a deck not designed to beat down. You just have to play way more like a tempo deck and take riskes, because you can't win the late game. last time I fought a resolved Khan.. I cyclonic rift (sad rift) and GQed thier tron. Somehow managed to pull out of the low land state I was in before they restablished tron.

Thirst is instant speed, you're not really taking a turn off to cast it. Even if you do, its often worth it. You can argue the same for Anticipate, you'd "take a turn off" to cast it just like TFK.

Supreme will/Anticipate gives you the best one card out of 3-4 from the top of your deck. TFK gives you up to 3 of the best 3 cards from the top. I honestly think Anticipate and SW are thirsts #5-6, no reason to run them when you still have #3-4 available

I'm mostly focusing on the early game in my analysis, because I feel that's the weak point of our deck. Utron has an probably the best late game of any deck in the format, so while Thirst is definitely better late game, I'm more concerned about cards that shine in the early game -- that let us get out of the early game and to the late game.

Anticipate is much more flexible in the early game. I'm much happier keeping a hand with no counters if it has anticipate (vs Thirst) and I'm much happier keeping a hand with 1 Anticipate and 1 Thirst (vs 2 Thirsts). Land, go > Land, go > Land, eot Thirst is a losing plan verses Affinity, Burn, Death & Taxes, etc; where as Land, go > Land, eot Anticipate > Land, Condescend is much better.

Anticipate also opens up turn 4 Anticipate + Remand/Condescend or Snap block eot Anticipate.

Turn 5 an on Thirst is better. So how many copies of a card you don't want before turn 5 should you play? 4 is defensible. After all the card is super good, and after turn 5 you do want as many as you can get. But I like 3 because I don't like them to clog my opening hand -- and remember I do play snapcaster and Torrential Gearhulk has virtual extra copies. And then I replaced one for Supreme Will because the 3 cost card selection is very similar, and it can be a counter when you need it.

Of course it's all tradeoffs, sometimes Thirst is better, sometimes Anticipate is better, and sometimes Supreme Will is better. I wouldn't leave home without 5 to 6 copies of them all together, so you're going to have to do a mixup anyways.

This is the list I've been playing recently


Here are my most recent results:

Round 1
Naya (Dragons?)

Game 1 he gets a Dromoka into play and I concede, game 2 I have no idea what I'm up against so I just side in the orbs. After about 20 mins of me stalling with platinum angel I get mindslaver for the win. Game 3 we had about 5 mins on the clock, I was very close to winning but we ended up going to time

Current record: 0-0-1


Round 2
Bogles

I get crushed Game 1 and 2 by a T3-4 kill.

Current record: 0-1-1


Round 3
BW Aristocrats/tokens/midrange?

Game 1 goes kinda long as I try to slow down whatever he was trying to do as much as possible, but I end up conceding after not being able to land a threat. Game 2 I miss a land then lose to an atheros and an army of zulaport cutthroat, spirits, blood artist, etc.

Current record: 0-2-1


Round 4
Jund

Game 1 I lose to a goyf after tapping out t3 for coax. Game 2 I bring in 2 relic 1 needle 1 orbs, I land a t1 relic and end up grinding him out till I landed a wurmcoil and elder deep-fiend, and was able to beat him. Game 3 I get turn 1 relic again, turn 2 we both miss a land but I pithing needle naming lili of the veil. I land a wurmcoil and he concedes soon after. I asked this guy after the match, and he said he was only running lili for hand-hate which definitely improved this MU for me a lot.

Record: 1-2-1


I made A LOT of misplays and really screwed up on sbing in every MU except jund. I was trying a couple new things though and I think that the coax wishboard was AMAZING. I'm considering adding more TKS or an endbringer to the sb, thoughts on that?

Any recommendations on how I could change my list?

Hi guys, I've just started playing the deck and I'd like a bit of help using Mindslaver, whenever I use it outside of the lock it feels lackluster but when watching pierakor he always seems to win off it . I'd like to know which decks it is strong against and when to grab it with Treasure Mage before Wurmcoil Engine.

I think if you want to play with land counts it should be 24 on the draw (8 cards opening) and 25 on the play (7 cards opening). That's kinda at odds with Gemstone Caverns, but is a very common trim many pros make.

The Ballista-less list are interesting as I've been thinking about adding more main and maybe even Basilisk collar to attach to all our throwaway creatures. It's also another play that only requires colorless mana (I find that I often want to make some addition to the board while holding up blue mana).

ballista should really only be going in the trinket mage builds that shoktroopa champions it seems. i lean more towards pierakor style deck lists but its all a matter of preference. the one thing that is very nice about the ballista builds is the 2nd copy of snapcaster mage for flashing back removal and counters. but blue mana can be a scarcity in this deck

spoiler time.

evaporating melody... go!

xUU instant. gain control of target creature with cmc x.