Out of all the decks I've played so far during my 10 years of Magic I like this deck the best!
There is so much synergy between all the cards, you can just win on the spot or grind your opponent down.
All the creatures are very good copy targets for Saheeli, all the PWs and creatures are very good blink targets for Felidar. T3feri protects the combo, stalls the game or bounces Snap for value, Felidar can reset Batterskull...
My results so far with the deck are pretty good is well: 28-5-2 at FNMs and Tournament Practice & 2-Player-Queues on MTGO. Atm I am pretty much 100% satisfied with my mainboard.
I'd like to ask all of you for help to build the best possible SB for this deck. The decks I need to consider most imho in the current/foreseeable meta are Burn, Jund, Whirza, G Tron (Once Upon a Time is scary!), UW Control, Dredge, and Valakut/Amulet Titan.
My SB candidates are (CMC order):
EE, Surgical, Pithing Needle, Dispel, Ceremonious Rejection, RiP, Auriok Champion, Celestial Purge, Disdainful Stroke, Flashfreeze, Dovin's Veto, Sword of Truth and Justice, Timely Reinforcements, Wear/Tear, Pillage, Geist of Saint Traft, Ashiok, Anger, Shatterstorm
I'm also crushing my local leagues with Copycat. People tend to forget how to play against Control/Combo after Twin has departed from Modern, and I'm punishing them for this.
I do dislike the Stoneforge package. We don't care about deploying creatures most of the time (just turning on opponent's removals), and vs removal-heavy decks we move towards Teferi, Time Reveler -> Felidar Guardian the turn we can combo off. I tried it at first, but I decided I was wasting important slots.
Obviously. I just tried to argument a bit about its absence.
Why do you like it? I mean, it's basically a lightning rod in a deck that has very few of them. I guess your list is more midrangey, with Seasoned Pyro and Stoneforge.
By the way, in your list I hate the fact you only run one Force of Negation. The card is too good, expecially in an archetype full of 3-4 cc drops and very low on lands (for the amount of high cc it runs). Three is the least I would play. Remand, imho, conflicts too much with the tap-out strategy we're focusing on. Spell Pierce and Spell Snare, costing only one mana, do the job way better.
I was sceptical as well... until I tried it on MTGO. It was so good that I spent almost 200 Euros on the package! SFM is the perfect T2 play in my opinion. Of course she's a Lightning rod but you'd be surprised how often he lives and Batterskull saves the day (against all these creature heavy aggro decks that play only a few removal spells). With the package and Bolt-Snap-Bolt this deck has another win con if the combo get's Surgically Extracted or whatever. It's also good to have something in play that can protect all my PWs.
And yes, I agree that FoN is a great card. I couldn't afford to buy a second copy and the SFM package all at once -_-
Which card in my deck would you cut for a second Force?
The Remands feel very lackluster in current Modern.
I also dislike Narset in your shell. I would play Teferi and another cantrip. Saheeli in three copies has been perfect for me. If you run Stoneforge/Batterkull (expecially) it's way better to max out on one cc removals instead of Helixes/Abrade.
EDIT:
I'll give you the list I would play *with* Stoneforge Mystic in the deck.
The Remands feel very lackluster in current Modern.
I also dislike Narset in your shell. I would play Teferi and another cantrip. Saheeli in three copies has been perfect for me. If you run Stoneforge/Batterkull (expecially) it's way better to max out on one cc removals instead of Helixes/Abrade.
EDIT:
I'll give you the list I would play *with* Stoneforge Mystic in the deck.
Though, Astrolabe is too good to omit. And I'm worried about the blue count. Mmm.
With so many good 1 cc spells, why not play Dreadhorde Arcanist? It's the centerpiece of the top control deck in Vintage with a similar number of 1cc spells.
With so many good 1 cc spells, why not play Dreadhorde Arcanist? It's the centerpiece of the top control deck in Vintage with a similar number of 1cc spells.
There are actually few juicy targets for Arcanist compared to the norm. In Vintage, if you activate it twice you basically win the game because of the powerlevel (you can flashback Ancestral Recall, Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Gitaxian Probe, Pyroblast that often hits something on the board...). Here, you just go for "bad cantrips" or situational removal spells.
You can definitely try a list similar to this, though:
I've been playing this deck with Stoneforge Mystic since they got unbanned.
I just play 2 Batterskull as equipment; Batterskull is a threat on its own, and that's what you want, to divert resources from your opponent as the way to protect your combo. This Mystic package is particularly good against UW Control (though they're playing more Spell Snares now) and Dredge, while Jund and Burn should still have more room to interact favorably against it (I'm surprised of my good paper results against Jund, though); not playing other Swords can become a liability in the late game against other Blade decks.
I haven't tried Seasoned Pyromancer to assess how good it is, but I don't think it has a ceiling as high as Mystic. With Mystic you can cut some sweepers and graveyard hate from your sideboard (but not cards against Burn!), while the Pyromancer can only be slightly better in the fair match-ups.
I also tweaked the mana base to make room to sideboard Blood Moon. I think Blood Moon is the best hate card against Tron; Spreading Seas requires too many slots, and Alpine Moon and Damping Sphere can get hit by Blast Zone. Blood Moon is also better against Amulet (underplayed deck) and is only slightly worse than Alpine Moon against Valakut, plus all the extra uses you may give to it in pairings in which you don't specifically need that kind of card but still can win you the game.
You can afford to play tons of basics because this deck doesn't have very heavy mana requirements (despite being a three color deck) but the key factor is that your lands come into play untapped. You may need double blue by turn 3 to hardcast Force of Negation, or flashback a cantrip with Snapcaster Mage (unusual scenarios), double red as early as turn 2 to play double Bolt (also rare), double white by turn 4 to cast Stoneforge Mystic and activate another one already into play (very rare), and triple blue turn 5 to give flashback to Force of Negation.
Also, Celestial Colonnade is bad in this deck. You won't be activating it very often (either games are fast or it's easy to answer) and you don't want lands that come into play tapped. I also dislike Spirebluff Canal, because sixth land coming into play untapped can be crucial. The lack of synergy between Sulfur Falls and basic Plains can lead to a few awkward starts, but I prefer lands coming untapped later if I want to hardcast Batterskull or play both combo pieces in a single turn.
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Currently sleeved: WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
Hi, I am also still playing the CopyCat list with SFM, but also with Seasoned Pyromancer.
Online my list still almost looks like in the pic above, I am just testing Spellskite and Castle Vantress now instead of the second basic Island and Narset:
Spellskite should be good since it can protect the combo and also my other artifacts.
In paper I managed to get a second copy of Seasoned Pyromancer (no Spellskite) and at the last FNM Pyro was always a very good draw.
I am now 56-12-4 with the deck on MTGO and at several FNMs. The power level of this deck is really off the charts!
In case you want to know against what decks I played, here are my last 25 matches:
2-1 vs Mono-Blue Turns
1-1-1 vs Bant Spirits
2-1 vs Grixis Shadow
2-0 vs Ad Nauseam
0-2 vs RW Norin Sisters
2-0 vs Paradoxical Urza
2-1 vs Esper Control
2-1 vs Jeskai Midrange (with SFM)
2-0 vs Grixis Control
2-1 vs UR Delver
0-2 vs 8-Whack Goblins
2-0 vs Boros Burn
2-1 vs Dredge
2-0 vs Skred Red
1-2 vs Abzan Midrange (with 4x Rotting Regisaur)
2-0 vs Titanshift
2-0 cs Monored Prowess
2-1 vs 5C Walkers
2-1 vs Sultai Snow
2-0 vs Sultai Midrange (Goyf, Drown in the Loch, Oko)
1-1-1 vs RB Golbins
2-0 vs GB Elves (with 4x Once upon a Time)
2-1 vs Temur Midrange (Goyf, W6, Royal Scions)
1-2 vs Neoform
2-0 vs Bant Ephemerate
I've been experimenting quite a bit with this deck list at Modern events and I don't use Snapcaster Mages in my list. I use 4 Unsettled Mariner for extra protection along with Teferi, Time Raveler. I only have 2 Teferi's but I'm wanting 1 more at least.
This weekend a list pretty similar to mine did pretty well at the Oko-infested SCG Open Atlanta and placed 25th!
For my personal taste the "big SFM package" with 4x SFM & 3 artifacts is too much in this deck, I still prefer 3x SFM & 2 artifacts.
T3feri as a full 4 of is interesting. I'll go up to 3 copies again. My second copy of FoN should be in the mail this week too
Hi guys,
I am still playing this deck and I tweaked it a bit this week. It's a bit more midrange-y now.
I got rid of the sword since it almost never got equipped and I got rid of the Colonnade since it almost never got activated (just like spellcheck suggested above). I went up a land though since I added Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Cataclysmic Gearhulk. Both cards have been stellar so far. Elspeth turns SFM and Snappy into serious threats that fly over Eldrazis and Death's Shadows while Cataclysmic Gearhulk resets the board like a sweeper. I can even search up a Batterskull and the Gearhulk with Saheeli's ultimate and then have two creatures in play while my opponent is down to one.
Hi guys, ex-Twinner here who bought into copycat the moment she and her cat were printed but the list was never quite strong enough until Astrolabe.
I've gone 3 FNMs now with 2-1, 3-0, 2-1, the losses stemming from flood and me letting my opponent roll back something I should have insisted on. Oh well.
My list prioritizes the combo, meaning card velocity and maximum of all pieces, and looks like this:
I always thought the push that Copycat needed would come from something fancy and powerful, like Force of Negation. In truth the real push came from the humblest little 1 cmc artifact. The astrolabe fundamentally changed a flaw in the original copycat deck - that saheeli and her feline friend were pretty horrible at working with anything else in the deck; and you had to pick between velocity to your combo, control and mana efficiency. They were limited to replicating the snapcaster ETB, and then Teferi and Narset came along and benefited the cat, but that was about it. I'm benefiting so much from Astrolabe and I still can't believe how much it changes the deck. Teferi bouncing the astrolabe and drawing and then recasting for another draw is just crazy.
As I windmill slammed my combo over the past few weeks the nostalgia was real.
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Anyone playing this deck still? After I played other modern deck(s) for eight years, I’ve stumbled upon this and went all in, selling my othe decks to get it. The play it gives is amazing and janh online is still ripping it up.
Anyone have any advice? Where is a community that discusses this? Does anyone know if janh broadcasts any of his results?
Not new to magic or modern, but new to this deck, so any advice will be welcome!
Out of all the decks I've played so far during my 10 years of Magic I like this deck the best!
There is so much synergy between all the cards, you can just win on the spot or grind your opponent down.
All the creatures are very good copy targets for Saheeli, all the PWs and creatures are very good blink targets for Felidar. T3feri protects the combo, stalls the game or bounces Snap for value, Felidar can reset Batterskull...
My results so far with the deck are pretty good is well: 28-5-2 at FNMs and Tournament Practice & 2-Player-Queues on MTGO. Atm I am pretty much 100% satisfied with my mainboard.
I'd like to ask all of you for help to build the best possible SB for this deck. The decks I need to consider most imho in the current/foreseeable meta are Burn, Jund, Whirza, G Tron (Once Upon a Time is scary!), UW Control, Dredge, and Valakut/Amulet Titan.
My SB candidates are (CMC order):
EE, Surgical, Pithing Needle, Dispel, Ceremonious Rejection, RiP, Auriok Champion, Celestial Purge, Disdainful Stroke, Flashfreeze, Dovin's Veto, Sword of Truth and Justice, Timely Reinforcements, Wear/Tear, Pillage, Geist of Saint Traft, Ashiok, Anger, Shatterstorm
I do dislike the Stoneforge package. We don't care about deploying creatures most of the time (just turning on opponent's removals), and vs removal-heavy decks we move towards Teferi, Time Reveler -> Felidar Guardian the turn we can combo off. I tried it at first, but I decided I was wasting important slots.
That's my take on the maindeck.
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Island
1x Plains
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Felidar Guardian
3x Snapcaster Mage
(10 Planeswalkers):
4x Teferi, Time Raveler
3x Saheeli Rai
3x Narset, Parter of Veils
(8 Cantrips):
4x Opt
4x Arcum's Astrolabe
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Lightning Helix
4x Force of Negation
2x Spell Pierce
Cannot stand the singleton Mountain in this kind of lists. Just max out on Spirebluff Canal and profit. For the sideboard, I've got a sweet spot for Ceremonious Rejection and Gideon, Ally of Zendicar.
EDIT: I actually posted the wrong list, it was very outdated. Edited.
But to each their own, right?
Why do you like it? I mean, it's basically a lightning rod in a deck that has very few of them. I guess your list is more midrangey, with Seasoned Pyro and Stoneforge.
By the way, in your list I hate the fact you only run one Force of Negation. The card is too good, expecially in an archetype full of 3-4 cc drops and very low on lands (for the amount of high cc it runs). Three is the least I would play. Remand, imho, conflicts too much with the tap-out strategy we're focusing on. Spell Pierce and Spell Snare, costing only one mana, do the job way better.
And yes, I agree that FoN is a great card. I couldn't afford to buy a second copy and the SFM package all at once -_-
Which card in my deck would you cut for a second Force?
I also dislike Narset in your shell. I would play Teferi and another cantrip. Saheeli in three copies has been perfect for me. If you run Stoneforge/Batterkull (expecially) it's way better to max out on one cc removals instead of Helixes/Abrade.
EDIT:
I'll give you the list I would play *with* Stoneforge Mystic in the deck.
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Island
1x Plains
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Felidar Guardian
3x Snapcaster Mage
(3 Equipments):
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
(6 Planeswalkers):
3x Teferi, Time Raveler
3x Saheeli Rai
4x Opt
3x Sleight of Hand
(13 Removals&Permission):
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Force of Negation
1x Spell Pierce
Though, Astrolabe is too good to omit. And I'm worried about the blue count. Mmm.
With so many good 1 cc spells, why not play Dreadhorde Arcanist? It's the centerpiece of the top control deck in Vintage with a similar number of 1cc spells.
360 card powered Chicago cube:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/e7r
2020 Numerical Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/817969-2020-numerical-cube-power-rankings
2018 CubeTutor Power Rankings:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-card-and-archetype/803301-cubetutor-power-rankings-2018-by-color-and-cmc
There are actually few juicy targets for Arcanist compared to the norm. In Vintage, if you activate it twice you basically win the game because of the powerlevel (you can flashback Ancestral Recall, Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Gitaxian Probe, Pyroblast that often hits something on the board...). Here, you just go for "bad cantrips" or situational removal spells.
You can definitely try a list similar to this, though:
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
4x Spirebluff Canal
2x Island
1x Plains
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Steam Vents
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Dreadhorde Arcanist
4x Felidar Guardian
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Seasoned Pyromancer
(4 Planeswalkers):
4x Saheeli Rai
(8 Cantrips):
4x Opt
4x Sleight of Hand
1x Additional Cantrip
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Force of Negation
1x Spell Pierce
By the way, we're discussing Jeskai Copycat variants it in another topic if you're interested:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/592647-jeskai-tempo-delver-prowess-the-jeskai-way?page=151
I just play 2 Batterskull as equipment; Batterskull is a threat on its own, and that's what you want, to divert resources from your opponent as the way to protect your combo. This Mystic package is particularly good against UW Control (though they're playing more Spell Snares now) and Dredge, while Jund and Burn should still have more room to interact favorably against it (I'm surprised of my good paper results against Jund, though); not playing other Swords can become a liability in the late game against other Blade decks.
I haven't tried Seasoned Pyromancer to assess how good it is, but I don't think it has a ceiling as high as Mystic. With Mystic you can cut some sweepers and graveyard hate from your sideboard (but not cards against Burn!), while the Pyromancer can only be slightly better in the fair match-ups.
I also tweaked the mana base to make room to sideboard Blood Moon. I think Blood Moon is the best hate card against Tron; Spreading Seas requires too many slots, and Alpine Moon and Damping Sphere can get hit by Blast Zone. Blood Moon is also better against Amulet (underplayed deck) and is only slightly worse than Alpine Moon against Valakut, plus all the extra uses you may give to it in pairings in which you don't specifically need that kind of card but still can win you the game.
You can afford to play tons of basics because this deck doesn't have very heavy mana requirements (despite being a three color deck) but the key factor is that your lands come into play untapped. You may need double blue by turn 3 to hardcast Force of Negation, or flashback a cantrip with Snapcaster Mage (unusual scenarios), double red as early as turn 2 to play double Bolt (also rare), double white by turn 4 to cast Stoneforge Mystic and activate another one already into play (very rare), and triple blue turn 5 to give flashback to Force of Negation.
Also, Celestial Colonnade is bad in this deck. You won't be activating it very often (either games are fast or it's easy to answer) and you don't want lands that come into play tapped. I also dislike Spirebluff Canal, because sixth land coming into play untapped can be crucial. The lack of synergy between Sulfur Falls and basic Plains can lead to a few awkward starts, but I prefer lands coming untapped later if I want to hardcast Batterskull or play both combo pieces in a single turn.
Currently sleeved:
WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
Online my list still almost looks like in the pic above, I am just testing Spellskite and Castle Vantress now instead of the second basic Island and Narset:
Spellskite should be good since it can protect the combo and also my other artifacts.
In paper I managed to get a second copy of Seasoned Pyromancer (no Spellskite) and at the last FNM Pyro was always a very good draw.
I am now 56-12-4 with the deck on MTGO and at several FNMs. The power level of this deck is really off the charts!
In case you want to know against what decks I played, here are my last 25 matches:
2-1 vs Mono-Blue Turns
1-1-1 vs Bant Spirits
2-1 vs Grixis Shadow
2-0 vs Ad Nauseam
0-2 vs RW Norin Sisters
2-0 vs Paradoxical Urza
2-1 vs Esper Control
2-1 vs Jeskai Midrange (with SFM)
2-0 vs Grixis Control
2-1 vs UR Delver
0-2 vs 8-Whack Goblins
2-0 vs Boros Burn
2-1 vs Dredge
2-0 vs Skred Red
1-2 vs Abzan Midrange (with 4x Rotting Regisaur)
2-0 vs Titanshift
2-0 cs Monored Prowess
2-1 vs 5C Walkers
2-1 vs Sultai Snow
2-0 vs Sultai Midrange (Goyf, Drown in the Loch, Oko)
1-1-1 vs RB Golbins
2-0 vs GB Elves (with 4x Once upon a Time)
2-1 vs Temur Midrange (Goyf, W6, Royal Scions)
1-2 vs Neoform
2-0 vs Bant Ephemerate
For my personal taste the "big SFM package" with 4x SFM & 3 artifacts is too much in this deck, I still prefer 3x SFM & 2 artifacts.
T3feri as a full 4 of is interesting. I'll go up to 3 copies again. My second copy of FoN should be in the mail this week too
I am still playing this deck and I tweaked it a bit this week. It's a bit more midrange-y now.
I got rid of the sword since it almost never got equipped and I got rid of the Colonnade since it almost never got activated (just like spellcheck suggested above). I went up a land though since I added Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Cataclysmic Gearhulk. Both cards have been stellar so far. Elspeth turns SFM and Snappy into serious threats that fly over Eldrazis and Death's Shadows while Cataclysmic Gearhulk resets the board like a sweeper. I can even search up a Batterskull and the Gearhulk with Saheeli's ultimate and then have two creatures in play while my opponent is down to one.
I've gone 3 FNMs now with 2-1, 3-0, 2-1, the losses stemming from flood and me letting my opponent roll back something I should have insisted on. Oh well.
My list prioritizes the combo, meaning card velocity and maximum of all pieces, and looks like this:
4 Saheeli Rai
4 Feldar Guardian
Control (21)
4 Teferi, Time Raveler
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Spell pierce
2 Force of Negation
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Lightning Helix
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
4 Serum Visions
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
Real Estate (21)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
3 Flooded Strand
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Sunbaked Canyon
2 Snow-covered Island
1 Snow-covered Plains
1 Snow-covered Mountain
I always thought the push that Copycat needed would come from something fancy and powerful, like Force of Negation. In truth the real push came from the humblest little 1 cmc artifact. The astrolabe fundamentally changed a flaw in the original copycat deck - that saheeli and her feline friend were pretty horrible at working with anything else in the deck; and you had to pick between velocity to your combo, control and mana efficiency. They were limited to replicating the snapcaster ETB, and then Teferi and Narset came along and benefited the cat, but that was about it. I'm benefiting so much from Astrolabe and I still can't believe how much it changes the deck. Teferi bouncing the astrolabe and drawing and then recasting for another draw is just crazy.
As I windmill slammed my combo over the past few weeks the nostalgia was real.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Anyone have any advice? Where is a community that discusses this? Does anyone know if janh broadcasts any of his results?
Not new to magic or modern, but new to this deck, so any advice will be welcome!
EDIT: Marc! Long time no see!? You on this still?
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
Results: SCG IQ Top 8, Monthly Modern Masters Top 4