I wanted to share my sucess with turns lately. I used to play U-R turns, but I switched to Bant lately. I play only online, cause I don't have any time to play real life Magic unfortunately.
I played a lot of friendly modern league to test the decklist. I had around 62% match win rate over approx 15 leagues even when counting the firsts leagues with subpar brew. With the new set release, I tested Jace, Wielder of Mysteries instead of Gideon Jura (I needed a fast win condition, cause I timed out sometimes). I will never go back to Gideon
I played 4 Competitive league with it so far. I Went 4-1, 3-2, 3-2 and 2-3 against a wide variety of decks. Note: One match in the second league I lost timed out by litteraly 1 seconds I lost with a lethal Blue Sun's Zenith on the stack
Did you give Growth Spiral a shot at all? I'm unwilling to pay the money on MTGO to try and build it out myself but UG seemed like a cool build to try.
Do you find the walkers and x draw spells are enough to keep you full once you start "going off?"
I've messed around with BUG teachings a bit and I feel like I generally come close to running low on fuel before I start my loops in that deck and this seems somewhat similar.
Obviously the option of a t2 cryptic command changes the dynamic quite a bit. That is something I'm highly interested in toying with. Did you playtest frilled mystic at all? I'm also interested in hearing if you played with growth spiral any. Space is tight but picking a mystic up off cryptic sounds filthy and spiral just plays so great with reclamation it seems.
@MBonvil
Obviously the option of a t2 cryptic command changes the dynamic quite a bit. That is something I'm highly interested in toying with.
T2 Cryptic is not something I do against an unknown deck though, because it requires casting Utopia Sprawl on Breeding Pool. It is much more easier to destroy a non basic land than a basic land. Add to that the fact that Utopia Sprawl will fall off if a Blood Moon hits the ground!
I did not tested frilled mystic. The only spot it could replace is Remand. Not sure about the change. Remand does help against T2 and T3 decks (like Neoform Griselbrand or tron). You don't always have 4 mana T2 (Lets be honest, most of the time you don't). But it could sure be tested.
welcome back! there's a couple of things to point out. At the moment almost no one is playing remand anymore. In the current meta we are seeing lots of very cheap spells spells being played so it's not that relevant.
13 mines effects seems...A LOT. most builds run 1 mine, 4 dictate, 2 jace. also narset's effect is cute, but I wouldn't run 4.
that's my 2 cents. I'm sure other users will be able to give you better advice
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Hello Spigushe!
I agree with doc.brown, that list has too many do-nothing-cards for the first turns (Azcanta, Mine, Narset): in current meta you simply can't survive so long to "combo off" unharmed.
However I still play 2-3 Remand maindeck, it's never a dead card but I'm hoping that Modern Horizons bring us Counterspell or Force Spike (I'm testing Mana Tithe in UW and I like it a lot, replacing Spell Snare and/or Spell Pierce).
Started testing this as soon as the set comes out and it brings back the nostalgia of the original Taking Turns! Winning the game with the new Jace feels a lot more smooth then having to worry about attacking or using bolts. With the mono blue I've also been able to go back to playing Chalice in the side and I really like the list with the use of the new Kefnet and Thing in the Ice.!
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Izzet Phoenix (2-0)
Game one i slam a Narset on turn 3 and game two opp did not draw his 2nd land until late. I cryptic a thing and bounce the 3rd land. Next I draw narset and he condedes.
-2 Remand -2 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Surgical Extraction +2 Chalice of the Void
Izzet Phoenix (2-0)
Game one i slam a Narset on turn 3 and game two opp did not draw his 2nd land until late. I cryptic a thing and bounce the 3rd land. Next I draw narset and he condedes.
-2 Remand -2 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Surgical Extraction +2 Chalice of the Void
I play UW these days, but I always love the elgance of the old mono U, well done sir!
couple of questions: 4 dictate 3 mines seems A LOT. even back when there was no jace we were running 4+2. i see you have no jace but you have narset that can dig. did you ever feel it was too many mine effects?
I'm super excited to play with kefnet, how did it go when you sided it in?
Remand is a card that lots of people aren't running anymore, how did it perform form you?
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I play UW these days, but I always love the elgance of the old mono U, well done sir!
couple of questions: 4 dictate 3 mines seems A LOT. even back when there was no jace we were running 4+2. i see you have no jace but you have narset that can dig. did you ever feel it was too many mine effects?
I'm super excited to play with kefnet, how did it go when you sided it in?
Remand is a card that lots of people aren't running anymore, how did it perform form you?
Hi doc!
First, the mines. It has been a time, approx. 2 years ago when we were playing 4+2 with 11 turns. With Narset coming into the deck, I felt that 4+3 was more efficient because the drawback of the mines is really tempered through her passive. 4+2 was the number because of the symetrical effects, now that it's not as symetrical as before, I feel quite fine with that setup.
I did side in Kefnet, I did not cast it. Against Hatebear, I got 2 Titi that transformed and it was enough not to cast Kefnet (and it is a bad synergy). Against Merfolk, Kefnet was just too expensive.
Remand has to be viewed, imho, as a pseudo-mine and tempo enabler. Everytime I can cancel an opp turn with it, I just cast it saying "Time Walk" and this is what it always feel like. Some matchups are not so free Remanding cards, that's why I have Negate and Commandeer in the sideboard.
Just an update on my Bant results. I have played 20 competitive leagues so far. I'm 55 match win on 94 matchups (I dropped some leagues with X-3 results), so that's a 58.5% match win rate. I'm clearly going infinite competitive leagues with it with the prizes I get from playing. I'm really happy with the deck so far. I did not have a 5-0 result so far though
By the way, I tested with Growth Spiral in the deck (replacing 1 remand and 2 Time Warp). It wasn't bad, but most of the time I wasn't happy with the card in this build. It was maybe half of the time a ramp spell. This build has 10 fetches and 2 Field of Ruin to thin the deck and get threshold for Search for Azcanta. Add to the fact that I play less lands than builds with Growth Spiral.
I tested frilled mystic too. I found the cost to be a little to hard to cast without an arbor elf. The deck always wants to cast Cryptic Command with to cast your other spells. As strange as it may appears, I think Mystic Snake would have been better. But again, frilled mystic wasn't bad. It helped me winning a game against monored control by keeping golbins from attacking. But it is a lot matchup dependant. A lot of times it really feels too expensive to counter a thing. Sure, Cryptic Command cost four mana, but it has the versatility to be a time walk by tapping all creatures or bouncing a thing.
Remand has to be viewed, imho, as a pseudo-mine and tempo enabler. Everytime I can cancel an opp turn with it, I just cast it saying "Time Walk" and this is what it always feel like. Some matchups are not so free Remanding cards, that's why I have Negate and Commandeer in the sideboard.
Totally agree there. Remand has been very good for me too. Sure, it is matchup dependant and it must be played timely. Playing Remand on the first occasion is not always the best play. I use it either to Time Walking an opponent who tapped out for something, to counter a flashback spell for value, to force my opponent to recast the spell in order to freely combo the next turn or to protect myself when comboing.
Yeah fluster storm really isn't huge in this deck. I'm really hoping they print something relevant for us! lol
Btw I am loving the new Jace! I have done a lot of testing against spirits/control/phoenix/hardened scales in the past few weeks
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Btw I am loving the new Jace! I have done a lot of testing against spirits/control/phoenix/hardened scales in the past few weeks
I'm playing with it too.
How many copies are you testing?
I'm stuck on 1, opponent seize it one time but it's not my only wincon so I'm not tempted by a second copy.
I'm playing with it too.
How many copies are you testing?
I'm stuck on 1, opponent seize it one time but it's not my only wincon so I'm not tempted by a second copy.
Right now I run 2 copies of the new jace, 1 JtMS
Then 4 dictate, 2 howling mine
4 time warp, 3 temporal mastery, 3 part the waterveil
I find that the build spirals really fast into a win as you're drawing 5 extra cards a turn and using his +1 to mill and draw each turn
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so I had a little tournament with my mates yesterday. I won against amulet, should have won against phoenix (we realised after the game that he had made an illegal play that got him the win), lost a very close game with jeskai control and got wrecked by humans.
Kefnet is amazing. I managed to win twice with the infinite combo.
Narset is really strong, both for digging and for negating the opponent the extra draws.
Teferi is also great. I never used the ability of casting sorceries at instant speed, but his protection form counters was powerful , as well as his - ability.
All in all it didn't go too bad (even tho i ended 1-3). I'm thinking about putting back in remand or boomerang, but I don't really know what to take out. this was my list:
2 kefnet
2 snapcaster
1 howling mine
3 dictate
1 commandeer
2 cryptic
3 gigadrowse
2 JTMS
2 Narset
2 Teferi
1 entreat the angels
3 exhaustion
4 serum visions
4 temporal mastery
2 terminus
4 time warp
1 blast zone
1 field of ruin
1 mikokoro
4 prairie stream
1 glacial fortress
1 hallowed fountain
4 blue fetch
9 island
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Time to shine! Force of Negation (1)(U)(U)
After a year away, I spent the past week studying the new meta and our forums. I plan to add 1x Jace, Wielder of Mysteries to my UW-Turns list alongside my 1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I look forward to the results of zcowans testing and I appreciate everyone's content and advice.
I have played New Jace in my mono-U list this weekend. Cut 2 part the waterveils and went up a Temporal Trespass and a Walk the Aeons. Switched a Snapcaster mage and a land for 2 Mission Briefings. It is a real win condition that deserves more testing. Usually cut Jace after sideboard and added Thing in the Ice (and a Kefnet for lulz).
Won against Mono-R prison and against B/G Rock.
Lost due to bad keeps against Ponza (1-2) and lost against a Narset out of GDS (1-2).
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Mono-U Turns
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I wanted to share my sucess with turns lately. I used to play U-R turns, but I switched to Bant lately. I play only online, cause I don't have any time to play real life Magic unfortunately.
I played a lot of friendly modern league to test the decklist. I had around 62% match win rate over approx 15 leagues even when counting the firsts leagues with subpar brew. With the new set release, I tested Jace, Wielder of Mysteries instead of Gideon Jura (I needed a fast win condition, cause I timed out sometimes). I will never go back to Gideon
Here is my curent decklist:
4 Arbor Elf
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wilderness Reclamation
Draw
4 Search for Azcanta
1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
Counters
3 Remand
4 Cryptic Command
Turns
3 Nexus of Fate
2 Time Warp
2 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Flooded Grove
2 Field of Ruin
3 Forest
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Dispel
2 Path to Exile
2 Damping Sphere
2 Negate
2 Ravenous Trap
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Terminus
1 Stony Silence
I played 4 Competitive league with it so far. I Went 4-1, 3-2, 3-2 and 2-3 against a wide variety of decks. Note: One match in the second league I lost timed out by litteraly 1 seconds I lost with a lethal Blue Sun's Zenith on the stack
Anyway, I found this deck very good. With T1 Arbor Elf and T2 Utopia Sprawl, you can have a T2 Wilderness Reclamation or T2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor or T2 Search for Azcanta + Remand. The deck can also take the control route with Remand and Cryptic Command. By the way, the two ''best combo'' in this deck is Wilderness Reclamation into Cryptic Command and Wilderness Reclamation into Sphinx's Revelation .
I find this deck pretty different from Taking Turns Decks, it is more a control Bant Wilderness Reclamation deck with a taking turns combo in it.
Edit:
Did 2 two more competitive league tonight. Went 3-2 and 4-1. This deck is really good and I love playing it
Spirits
Do you find the walkers and x draw spells are enough to keep you full once you start "going off?"
I've messed around with BUG teachings a bit and I feel like I generally come close to running low on fuel before I start my loops in that deck and this seems somewhat similar.
Obviously the option of a t2 cryptic command changes the dynamic quite a bit. That is something I'm highly interested in toying with. Did you playtest frilled mystic at all? I'm also interested in hearing if you played with growth spiral any. Space is tight but picking a mystic up off cryptic sounds filthy and spiral just plays so great with reclamation it seems.
Don't forget Azcanta, The Sunken Ruin. This card is busted, especialy with Wilderness Reclamation. When you untap with both, if any of the top9 cards in your deck is a Nexus of Fate you get another turn. With 2 or more Wilderness Reclamation, things get crazy pretty fast.
Keep in mind that you could a lot of times, just play Sphinx's Revelation for 15+ and pass the turn, which could be a ''kind of Time Walk''. Same with Cryptic Command.
T2 Cryptic is not something I do against an unknown deck though, because it requires casting Utopia Sprawl on Breeding Pool. It is much more easier to destroy a non basic land than a basic land. Add to that the fact that Utopia Sprawl will fall off if a Blood Moon hits the ground!
I did not tested frilled mystic. The only spot it could replace is Remand. Not sure about the change. Remand does help against T2 and T3 decks (like Neoform Griselbrand or tron). You don't always have 4 mana T2 (Lets be honest, most of the time you don't). But it could sure be tested.
I'm less sold on growth spiral. Sure, when you are comboing, growth spiral could be better since it draws you a card. However, before comboing Utopia Sprawl is better in my opinion. It virtually does cost 0 the turn you play it, while growth spiral cost 1 mana.
growth spiral is able to ramp into a T3 Wilderness Reclamation which is very good. But Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl too, with an added bonus of being able of doing something else T2, like casting a Search for Azcanta or activating a Mikokoro, Center of the Sea or Field of Ruin (Which is huge agains Tron or helps you finding your 3rd blue mana or your white mana).
I started this deck with a decklist that was very combo oriented UG build (4 Arbor Elf, 4 Utopia Sprawl and 4 growth spiral 4 Search for Azcanta and even 4 Though Scour to flip it rapidly). growth spiral was in my opinion the less good ramp card of the deck. In fact, something the deck did not needed at all.
This week, I'm planning to go to LGS tournaments with Mono U Turns (as usual). Here's the list I'll play :
4 Time Warp
3 Temporal Mastery
3 Part the Waterveil
// Mine-Effects (13)
4 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Howling Mine
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Narset, Parter of Veils
// Interactions (14)
3 Gigadrowse
3 Exhaust
3 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Mission Briefing
20 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center at the Sea
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Dispel
2 Surgical Extraction
2 God-Eternal Kefnet
1 Negate
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Thing in the Ice
What are your thoughts about this list ?
13 mines effects seems...A LOT. most builds run 1 mine, 4 dictate, 2 jace. also narset's effect is cute, but I wouldn't run 4.
that's my 2 cents. I'm sure other users will be able to give you better advice
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
I agree with doc.brown, that list has too many do-nothing-cards for the first turns (Azcanta, Mine, Narset): in current meta you simply can't survive so long to "combo off" unharmed.
However I still play 2-3 Remand maindeck, it's never a dead card but I'm hoping that Modern Horizons bring us Counterspell or Force Spike (I'm testing Mana Tithe in UW and I like it a lot, replacing Spell Snare and/or Spell Pierce).
1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mine Effects:
4 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Howling Mine
Spells:
3 Mission Briefing
4 Serum Visions
3 Cryptic Command
1 Commandeer
3 Exhaustion
3 Gigadrowse
4 Time Warp
3 Temporal Mastery
3 Part the Waterveil
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Gemstone Cavern
14 Islands
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
Started testing this as soon as the set comes out and it brings back the nostalgia of the original Taking Turns! Winning the game with the new Jace feels a lot more smooth then having to worry about attacking or using bolts. With the mono blue I've also been able to go back to playing Chalice in the side and I really like the list with the use of the new Kefnet and Thing in the Ice.!
4 Time Warp
3 Temporal Mastery
3 Part the Waterveil
// Mine-Effects (11)
4 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Howling Mine
4 Narset, Parter of Veils
// Interactions (14)
4 Gigadrowse
3 Exhaust
4 Remand
3 Cryptic Command
2 Snapcaster Mage
20 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center at the Sea
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Dispel
2 Surgical Extraction
2 God-Eternal Kefnet
1 Negate
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Thing in the Ice
Modifications are as bellow :
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Mission Briefing
1 Gigadrowse
1 Remand
1 Cryptic Command
I played against :
W Hatebears (2-0)
Did not cast Thalias, it was easier and Cryptic + Exhaust were the MVPs
-2 Snapcaster -1 Howling Mine -1 Time Warp -1 Temporal Mastery
+3 Thing in the Ice +2 God-Eternal Kefnet
Maybe juste had to cut 2 HM and a TM to keep TW as going off is easier with 4 TW.
RG Scapeshift (2-0)
Easy matchup, just have to keep counters to scapeshift and over-development cards while we draw to our turns
-3 Howling Mines -1 Remand
+1 Negate +1 Commandeer +2 Surgical Extraction
Merfolk (1-2)
The matchup is hard but not unwinnable. I think might have made a mistake G3 not wanting to put a Dictate and casting a Cryptic to a non lethal attack phase
G2 OTP : -2 Snapcaster Mage -4 Narset, Parter of Veils +3 Thing in the Ice +2 God-Eternal Kefnet +1 Surgical Extraction
G3 OTD : -4 Remand +2 Dispel +1 Surgical Extraction +1 Negate
Kefnet was not a good Idea
Izzet Phoenix (2-0)
Game one i slam a Narset on turn 3 and game two opp did not draw his 2nd land until late. I cryptic a thing and bounce the 3rd land. Next I draw narset and he condedes.
-2 Remand -2 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Surgical Extraction +2 Chalice of the Void
I play UW these days, but I always love the elgance of the old mono U, well done sir!
couple of questions: 4 dictate 3 mines seems A LOT. even back when there was no jace we were running 4+2. i see you have no jace but you have narset that can dig. did you ever feel it was too many mine effects?
I'm super excited to play with kefnet, how did it go when you sided it in?
Remand is a card that lots of people aren't running anymore, how did it perform form you?
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Hi doc!
First, the mines. It has been a time, approx. 2 years ago when we were playing 4+2 with 11 turns. With Narset coming into the deck, I felt that 4+3 was more efficient because the drawback of the mines is really tempered through her passive. 4+2 was the number because of the symetrical effects, now that it's not as symetrical as before, I feel quite fine with that setup.
I did side in Kefnet, I did not cast it. Against Hatebear, I got 2 Titi that transformed and it was enough not to cast Kefnet (and it is a bad synergy). Against Merfolk, Kefnet was just too expensive.
Remand has to be viewed, imho, as a pseudo-mine and tempo enabler. Everytime I can cancel an opp turn with it, I just cast it saying "Time Walk" and this is what it always feel like. Some matchups are not so free Remanding cards, that's why I have Negate and Commandeer in the sideboard.
I Hope I was clear enough
By the way, I tested with Growth Spiral in the deck (replacing 1 remand and 2 Time Warp). It wasn't bad, but most of the time I wasn't happy with the card in this build. It was maybe half of the time a ramp spell. This build has 10 fetches and 2 Field of Ruin to thin the deck and get threshold for Search for Azcanta. Add to the fact that I play less lands than builds with Growth Spiral.
I tested frilled mystic too. I found the cost to be a little to hard to cast without an arbor elf. The deck always wants to cast Cryptic Command with to cast your other spells. As strange as it may appears, I think Mystic Snake would have been better. But again, frilled mystic wasn't bad. It helped me winning a game against monored control by keeping golbins from attacking. But it is a lot matchup dependant. A lot of times it really feels too expensive to counter a thing. Sure, Cryptic Command cost four mana, but it has the versatility to be a time walk by tapping all creatures or bouncing a thing.
Totally agree there. Remand has been very good for me too. Sure, it is matchup dependant and it must be played timely. Playing Remand on the first occasion is not always the best play. I use it either to Time Walking an opponent who tapped out for something, to counter a flashback spell for value, to force my opponent to recast the spell in order to freely combo the next turn or to protect myself when comboing.
IMHO it's not for Turns, Spell Pierce is more versatile.
Btw I am loving the new Jace! I have done a lot of testing against spirits/control/phoenix/hardened scales in the past few weeks
I'm playing with it too.
How many copies are you testing?
I'm stuck on 1, opponent seize it one time but it's not my only wincon so I'm not tempted by a second copy.
Right now I run 2 copies of the new jace, 1 JtMS
Then 4 dictate, 2 howling mine
4 time warp, 3 temporal mastery, 3 part the waterveil
I find that the build spirals really fast into a win as you're drawing 5 extra cards a turn and using his +1 to mill and draw each turn
Kefnet is amazing. I managed to win twice with the infinite combo.
Narset is really strong, both for digging and for negating the opponent the extra draws.
Teferi is also great. I never used the ability of casting sorceries at instant speed, but his protection form counters was powerful , as well as his - ability.
All in all it didn't go too bad (even tho i ended 1-3). I'm thinking about putting back in remand or boomerang, but I don't really know what to take out. this was my list:
2 kefnet
2 snapcaster
1 howling mine
3 dictate
1 commandeer
2 cryptic
3 gigadrowse
2 JTMS
2 Narset
2 Teferi
1 entreat the angels
3 exhaustion
4 serum visions
4 temporal mastery
2 terminus
4 time warp
1 blast zone
1 field of ruin
1 mikokoro
4 prairie stream
1 glacial fortress
1 hallowed fountain
4 blue fetch
9 island
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
After a year away, I spent the past week studying the new meta and our forums. I plan to add 1x Jace, Wielder of Mysteries to my UW-Turns list alongside my 1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I look forward to the results of zcowans testing and I appreciate everyone's content and advice.
Won against Mono-R prison and against B/G Rock.
Lost due to bad keeps against Ponza (1-2) and lost against a Narset out of GDS (1-2).