@doc.brown I was thinking the same thing, seems pretty good. But the main problem becomes: is it better then Jace as the four mana planeswalker spot and I don't think so because card selection is better then "win more"
That being said I could see cutting a time warp effect to hopefully run him as a one of. Who knows lol
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
I have gone back and forth on the new Ral. When he's better than Jace, he's much better. When he's worse, he's a lot worse. Weighing him up in all situations, I think he comes in at just slightly worse. I would say that I think he's better than Chandra in any situation though and wouldn't consider running her again (I know she was an unpopular choice in the first place, I just think he's strictly better than her).
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Hey guys! First time posting in this, and love all the list here. It gave me a good idea and general things that I need for my deck.
I've played turns in the past as a Mono U list. I want to get back into it now but I made a list as a UW Turns and wanted some great criticism for it. Any help would be appreciated from this community.
God-Eternal Kefnet
2UU
Legendary Creature - Zombie God
Flying
You may reveal the first card you draw each turn as you draw it. Whenever you reveal an instant or sorcery card this way, copy that card and you may cast that copy. That copy costs 2 less to cast.
When God-Eternal Kefnet dies or is put into exile from the battlefield, you may put it into its owner's library third from the top.
4/5
(EDIT: forgot power/toughness) Wow, that's insane. Note that you copy the card, THEN cast the copy. The actual card stays in your hand!
I don't like outright saying "no" to deck ideas, but there are too many engine cards to combine Turns and Tron or Turns and Titan and still have the deck function in a reasonable way. If you want to try it, though, go for it! Just don't expect too much.
@Timewalkingonsunshine
what's your opinion on the new ral zarek in the UR build? copying timewarp, or copying bolt for 8 damage, or transforming gigadrowse in a fireball all seem pretty good
As @zcowan and @JPoJohnson said, I think new Ral is too win-more. He competes with the other 4-mana walkers, and while turning Time Warp into Time Stretch is cool, new Ral doesn't actually provide card advantage on his own like Jace the Mind Sculptor or Chandra Torch of Defiance, nor can he protect himself with a minus ability.
Hey guys! First time posting in this, and love all the list here. It gave me a good idea and general things that I need for my deck.
I've played turns in the past as a Mono U list. I want to get back into it now but I made a list as a UW Turns and wanted some great criticism for it. Any help would be appreciated from this community.
If I'm missing anything let me know, anything at all. I've played a list like this prior and had major success at my LGS.
Your list looks sweet! The two biggest things that are missing in my opinion are Jace the Mind Sculptor, which goes very well with Temporal Mastery and Terminus, and Part the Waterveil, which allows you to kill much faster than any other wincon currently in the deck. I have some nitpicks about card choices, but a lot of this is personal preference, so take everything with a grain of salt. Remand is weak in the format right now in my opinion because the top decks have very few spells that are good Remand targets. For example, Phoenix is mostly cantrips, so Thing in the Ice, Pyromancer Ascension, and Manamorphose are the few cards you can Remand and feel like you've accomplished something, and all of those come down before Remand when you're on the draw; Humans and Spirits have Cavern of Souls and Aether Vial that make Remand a very poor cantrip; Dredge has basically Cathartic Reunion and Conflagrate as the only spells that Remand is good against. Nexus of Fate in my experience is mostly an un-Miracleable Temporal Mastery. The Instant speed is rarely relevant because we beat counterspells by Gigadrowsing at the opponent's end step, and the shuffle clause is rarely relevant. It doesn't stop you from decking if you have a Mine or two out, and increasing the extra turn density of your deck is rarely the difference between winning and losing. Your Planeswalkers are in my opinion all outclassed by Jace the Mind Sculptor, in part because of the 5 Miracle cards in the deck. Manlands like Celestial Colonnade I've often found to be too slow, and I also don't like having more than one always-tapped land (you have both Colonnade and Temple of Enlightenment). I'm not a fan of basic Plains or Field of Ruin in the deck because of how important blue mana is for Gigadrowse, but I can see how that package goes together. I don't like the Laboratory Maniac sideboard plan, since I think it's rare than you can win with it in games 2 and 3 when your opponent has more interaction, like Naturalize effects for your Mines, or Thoughtseize effects, or counterspells. Like I said, these are just my personal opinions, so feel free to make as many or as few changes as you want. For example, Remand is great in certain metas full of decks like Tron, UW Control, and BG, so if your local store has tons of decks like that, then it's a fantastic inclusion.
Ah, I was looking for something like Revoke Existence, but couldn't find it, good call.
The only thing that I like about Act of Authority it is has that 2 for 1 potential. They have to answer it to play a second or it pulls a second card out of their hand in order to continue on in their strategy. Revoke Existence is probably the card you're wanting here though.
Am I missing something, or is Act of Authority only printed in Commander 2013, not making it Modern legal? Seems like a sweet card though! (I often do wish some Commander cards were Modern legal; not stuff like True-Name Nemesis though, lol)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
[quote]God-Eternal Kefnet
2UU
Legendary Creature - Zombie God
Flying
You may reveal the first card you draw each turn as you draw it. Whenever you reveal an instant or sorcery card this way, copy that card and you may cast that copy. That copy costs 2 less to cast.
When God-Eternal Kefnet dies or is put into exile from the battlefield, you may put it into its owner's library third from the top.
4/5
OMG Timewalkinonsunshine, I saw this card earlier today at work and was like.... now that is a Taking Turns spoiler haha... so insane
Definitely wouldn't fit into the mainboard.. but I think you and I share a similar sideboard strategy of going less combo and more value, and this fits perfectly.
I really like to trim on dictates and extra turn effects after sideboarding, and having access to a solid creature who is hard to get rid of and allow you to cast copies of things like exhaustion for only 1 blue mana is insane... PLUS you can use Jace to brainstorm cards back to the top of the deck for recycled value... seems nuts! UGH IM SO EXCITED.... MY BODY ISNT READY haha
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Hello, fellow turners. Been following Daniel Wong's content and leafing through this forum a good bit the past couple of weeks. So I am a little new. But I have been absolutely fascinated with this archetype ever since I first laid eyes on it recently. To me, it is essentially a lock deck. Locking your opponent out of turns. I thought it would be cool to build a blue white version. White has a lot of utility, especially in the sideboard. 2 paths in the main has been absolutely amazing. Please, check out my build and give me some suggestions. I call this Uw Prison. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1795744#online
@4nTi0cH_Gh0sT I like the list a lot! I ran UW for a really long time but never went the route of Detention Sphere. Seems solid though! My only recommendation is that you could essentially cut the two snapcaster mage in place of a second Part the Waterveil and to allow for a fourth Dictate of Kruphix. The reason being that it would allow your rest in peace to be far more one sided in their hate.
One of the big problems UW does have is that it can feel like it durdles though. That is the primary reason Daniel Wong and a lot of people have moved toward UR. There definitely has to be a way to get around that, but just a forewarning that you may feel like you're winning against decks like Izzet Phoenix but then they regain control of the board and win. That was my personal experience at least
But welcome to the deck and the forum!
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Thanks for the advice! Yeah im all about putting in that 4th dictate... But mannn i love the power of snapcaster mage. I might just make the switch to izzet just to have the additional combo of bolt-snap-bolt. Gotta save my pennies for them scalding tarns.
Hi there! I haven't played turns in the past two years, and I'm feeling like I should just return to it instead of investing my time in other new decks.
I've tinkered with several variants (mostly mono U, UR, UR as foretold with restore balance (yeah, that was a wild one) and lastly UG which is the one that I had the most success with), and here's a Allegiance updated version of my last UG build:
Several remarks: I don't think that'll come as a shock to any of you guys, but TiTi (thing in the Ice) is quite the absurd card. Really helps in most of our bad matchups as well as serving as a very potent win condition. It synergizes a lot with Search for Tomorrow's suspend ability, and as we all know lands matter a lot in this archetype. Talking about lands, Growth Spiral is a pseudo time walk (previously Explore but damn the upgrade feels good): it is equivalent to taking a turn for value, which never feels good for 5 or 7 mana but is really reasonable when we're on turn 2 or 3. As for Walk the Aeons, I guess I'm just and old scrub afraid to miss an extra turn, but sometimes you just need that extra turn to deal the killing blow with TiTi. Also, I'm not really into plating Part the Waterveil + Inkmoth Nexus with the very high amount of Field of Ruins running rampant in the format. I might try that delve one one day. Final remark: this version is better against creature based decks, but not as good against control based builds. Against control, the goal is just to try to continuously outvalue your opponent, playing a bit like U-Tron would.
Back to the topic I disrupted, yup', that Kefnet looks really sweet! He feels really like a build-around card, maybe I should consider him one day in that ramp-y build of mine... He is not my favorite spoiler of War for Taking Turns though: that new Teferi might be the link a proper turbo fog list with Wilderness Reclamation and Nexus of Fate (like that one we saw in standard fairly recently) needed to exist in modern. If you guys want to try stuff out on Xmage, I definitely would love to help
Starting tonight, my group will test the new London Mulligan.
I think this will strongly improve our mulligan, because we can shuffle away expensive turn cards (with an average 10 turn cards package, we have 74% possibilities of one copy in start hand, 40% it's a Temporal Mastery).
We could be rather encouraged to mull mediocre hands!
IMHO Temporal Mastery becomes one of the best cards to put in a blue deck, even a couple of copy in UWx Control.
Did a bit of testing tonight with my mates, using new cards and the London mulligan.
I tested God-Eternal Kefnet main (2x), Dovin, hand of control and dovin's veto in the side. All cards performed well, especially Kefnet.
I had this game against Esper control were I gigadrowsed his lands in his upkeep on turn , played exhaustion on turn 3, and then Kefnet on turn 4...and then snowballed from there.
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Narset's Reversal Seems like it could work here. In some cases it's a weird Remand, but it also has combo potential to double-dip on our turn spells/interaction. Also a neat upside is that it can stop turns spells from exiling when they resolve, (because the copy is the one that actually resolves not the original card). Thoughts?
How does a card like that work with cryptic command exactly? As in: if you cast a spell and your opponent casts a cryptic with the modes "counter target spell & draw a card" can you change the modes with the copy to be like "bounce target permanent and draw a card"?
As for it's place in Taking Turns, I could see it being played in the more turbo fog styled decks that run more at instant speed. I may be wrong.
Lots of cards from this set are going to need testing
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
How does a card like that work with cryptic command exactly? As in: if you cast a spell and your opponent casts a cryptic with the modes "counter target spell & draw a card" can you change the modes with the copy to be like "bounce target permanent and draw a card"?
As for it's place in Taking Turns, I could see it being played in the more turbo fog styled decks that run more at instant speed. I may be wrong.
Lots of cards from this set are going to need testing
You cannot change the mode chosen by the opponent ( same happens with commandeer ), you can change the target of the modes, if there is no legal target in either one of the two modes, the spell will just fizzle.
Your list looks sweet! The two biggest things that are missing in my opinion are Jace the Mind Sculptor, which goes very well with Temporal Mastery and Terminus, and Part the Waterveil, which allows you to kill much faster than any other wincon currently in the deck. I have some nitpicks about card choices, but a lot of this is personal preference, so take everything with a grain of salt. Remand is weak in the format right now in my opinion because the top decks have very few spells that are good Remand targets. For example, Phoenix is mostly cantrips, so Thing in the Ice, Pyromancer Ascension, and Manamorphose are the few cards you can Remand and feel like you've accomplished something, and all of those come down before Remand when you're on the draw; Humans and Spirits have Cavern of Souls and Aether Vial that make Remand a very poor cantrip; Dredge has basically Cathartic Reunion and Conflagrate as the only spells that Remand is good against. Nexus of Fate in my experience is mostly an un-Miracleable Temporal Mastery. The Instant speed is rarely relevant because we beat counterspells by Gigadrowsing at the opponent's end step, and the shuffle clause is rarely relevant. It doesn't stop you from decking if you have a Mine or two out, and increasing the extra turn density of your deck is rarely the difference between winning and losing. Your Planeswalkers are in my opinion all outclassed by Jace the Mind Sculptor, in part because of the 5 Miracle cards in the deck. Manlands like Celestial Colonnade I've often found to be too slow, and I also don't like having more than one always-tapped land (you have both Colonnade and Temple of Enlightenment). I'm not a fan of basic Plains or Field of Ruin in the deck because of how important blue mana is for Gigadrowse, but I can see how that package goes together. I don't like the Laboratory Maniac sideboard plan, since I think it's rare than you can win with it in games 2 and 3 when your opponent has more interaction, like Naturalize eff
ects for your Mines, or Thoughtseize effects, or counterspells. Like I said, these are just my personal opinions, so feel free to make as many or as few changes as you want. For example, Remand is great in certain metas full of decks like Tron, UW Control, and BG, so if your local store has tons of decks like that, then it's a fantastic inclusion.
I know many players are excited about Kefnet, but I've been mostly impressed by Narset, Parter of Veils 1UU. She can practically brake the symmetry of ours Mines and Edicts, plus she gives us 2 ticks down of Azcanta.
I'm not so sure about this one, honestly. The whole point of playing Howling Mine effects is that we already break the symmetry naturally by taking extra turns and therefore getting more draws than our opponent. Our 3 drop slot is already pretty full and I'm not sure that a 3 drop that basically only cantrips if we have none of our other pieces is really good. Sure it's great if you already have resolved mine effects and manage to then resolve this, but at that point isn't it something of a win-more?
There are a surprising number of playable cards in this new set, to the point where I am actually struggling to find room. Fortunately a lot are legendary so you can get away with running singletons.
Right now I'm trying to find room for:
1 x God-Eternal Kefnet
1 x Narset, Parter of Viels
1 x Dovin, Hand of Control
0-1 x Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
sideboard 0-1 x blast zone
sideboard ??? - Ashiok, Dream Render (turbofog sandbag maybe)
I think I have room to cut one of my Part the waterveils since Kefnet will help make up for 1 fewer timewalk and they are both late game. The rest of it i really need to evaluate my list.
That being said I could see cutting a time warp effect to hopefully run him as a one of. Who knows lol
Why though?
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I've played turns in the past as a Mono U list. I want to get back into it now but I made a list as a UW Turns and wanted some great criticism for it. Any help would be appreciated from this community.
List here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1800461#paper
If I'm missing anything let me know, anything at all. I've played a list like this prior and had major success at my LGS.
(EDIT: forgot power/toughness) Wow, that's insane. Note that you copy the card, THEN cast the copy. The actual card stays in your hand!
I don't like outright saying "no" to deck ideas, but there are too many engine cards to combine Turns and Tron or Turns and Titan and still have the deck function in a reasonable way. If you want to try it, though, go for it! Just don't expect too much.
As @zcowan and @JPoJohnson said, I think new Ral is too win-more. He competes with the other 4-mana walkers, and while turning Time Warp into Time Stretch is cool, new Ral doesn't actually provide card advantage on his own like Jace the Mind Sculptor or Chandra Torch of Defiance, nor can he protect himself with a minus ability.
Your list looks sweet! The two biggest things that are missing in my opinion are Jace the Mind Sculptor, which goes very well with Temporal Mastery and Terminus, and Part the Waterveil, which allows you to kill much faster than any other wincon currently in the deck. I have some nitpicks about card choices, but a lot of this is personal preference, so take everything with a grain of salt. Remand is weak in the format right now in my opinion because the top decks have very few spells that are good Remand targets. For example, Phoenix is mostly cantrips, so Thing in the Ice, Pyromancer Ascension, and Manamorphose are the few cards you can Remand and feel like you've accomplished something, and all of those come down before Remand when you're on the draw; Humans and Spirits have Cavern of Souls and Aether Vial that make Remand a very poor cantrip; Dredge has basically Cathartic Reunion and Conflagrate as the only spells that Remand is good against. Nexus of Fate in my experience is mostly an un-Miracleable Temporal Mastery. The Instant speed is rarely relevant because we beat counterspells by Gigadrowsing at the opponent's end step, and the shuffle clause is rarely relevant. It doesn't stop you from decking if you have a Mine or two out, and increasing the extra turn density of your deck is rarely the difference between winning and losing. Your Planeswalkers are in my opinion all outclassed by Jace the Mind Sculptor, in part because of the 5 Miracle cards in the deck. Manlands like Celestial Colonnade I've often found to be too slow, and I also don't like having more than one always-tapped land (you have both Colonnade and Temple of Enlightenment). I'm not a fan of basic Plains or Field of Ruin in the deck because of how important blue mana is for Gigadrowse, but I can see how that package goes together. I don't like the Laboratory Maniac sideboard plan, since I think it's rare than you can win with it in games 2 and 3 when your opponent has more interaction, like Naturalize effects for your Mines, or Thoughtseize effects, or counterspells. Like I said, these are just my personal opinions, so feel free to make as many or as few changes as you want. For example, Remand is great in certain metas full of decks like Tron, UW Control, and BG, so if your local store has tons of decks like that, then it's a fantastic inclusion.
Am I missing something, or is Act of Authority only printed in Commander 2013, not making it Modern legal? Seems like a sweet card though! (I often do wish some Commander cards were Modern legal; not stuff like True-Name Nemesis though, lol)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)OMG Timewalkinonsunshine, I saw this card earlier today at work and was like.... now that is a Taking Turns spoiler haha... so insane
Definitely wouldn't fit into the mainboard.. but I think you and I share a similar sideboard strategy of going less combo and more value, and this fits perfectly.
I really like to trim on dictates and extra turn effects after sideboarding, and having access to a solid creature who is hard to get rid of and allow you to cast copies of things like exhaustion for only 1 blue mana is insane... PLUS you can use Jace to brainstorm cards back to the top of the deck for recycled value... seems nuts! UGH IM SO EXCITED.... MY BODY ISNT READY haha
The infinite combo with Jace and Kefnet is a funny one.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1795744#online
One of the big problems UW does have is that it can feel like it durdles though. That is the primary reason Daniel Wong and a lot of people have moved toward UR. There definitely has to be a way to get around that, but just a forewarning that you may feel like you're winning against decks like Izzet Phoenix but then they regain control of the board and win. That was my personal experience at least
But welcome to the deck and the forum!
I've tinkered with several variants (mostly mono U, UR, UR as foretold with restore balance (yeah, that was a wild one) and lastly UG which is the one that I had the most success with), and here's a Allegiance updated version of my last UG build:
4 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
4 Hinterland Harbor
6 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Yavimaya Coast
Turns
4 Growth Spiral
4 Time Warp
4 Temporal Mastery
1 Walk the Aeons
1 Cryptic Command
4 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Gigadrowse
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Remand
4 Search for Tomorrow
3 Serum Visions
Win conditions
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Thing in the Ice
1 Back to Nature
2 Dispel
1 Disrupting Shoal
1 Engulf the Shore
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Laboratory Maniac
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Snapback
1 Spell Pierce
2 Sun Droplet
Several remarks: I don't think that'll come as a shock to any of you guys, but TiTi (thing in the Ice) is quite the absurd card. Really helps in most of our bad matchups as well as serving as a very potent win condition. It synergizes a lot with Search for Tomorrow's suspend ability, and as we all know lands matter a lot in this archetype. Talking about lands, Growth Spiral is a pseudo time walk (previously Explore but damn the upgrade feels good): it is equivalent to taking a turn for value, which never feels good for 5 or 7 mana but is really reasonable when we're on turn 2 or 3. As for Walk the Aeons, I guess I'm just and old scrub afraid to miss an extra turn, but sometimes you just need that extra turn to deal the killing blow with TiTi. Also, I'm not really into plating Part the Waterveil + Inkmoth Nexus with the very high amount of Field of Ruins running rampant in the format. I might try that delve one one day. Final remark: this version is better against creature based decks, but not as good against control based builds. Against control, the goal is just to try to continuously outvalue your opponent, playing a bit like U-Tron would.
Back to the topic I disrupted, yup', that Kefnet looks really sweet! He feels really like a build-around card, maybe I should consider him one day in that ramp-y build of mine... He is not my favorite spoiler of War for Taking Turns though: that new Teferi might be the link a proper turbo fog list with Wilderness Reclamation and Nexus of Fate (like that one we saw in standard fairly recently) needed to exist in modern. If you guys want to try stuff out on Xmage, I definitely would love to help
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
Starting tonight, my group will test the new London Mulligan.
I think this will strongly improve our mulligan, because we can shuffle away expensive turn cards (with an average 10 turn cards package, we have 74% possibilities of one copy in start hand, 40% it's a Temporal Mastery).
We could be rather encouraged to mull mediocre hands!
IMHO Temporal Mastery becomes one of the best cards to put in a blue deck, even a couple of copy in UWx Control.
Do you think the same?
I tested God-Eternal Kefnet main (2x), Dovin, hand of control and dovin's veto in the side. All cards performed well, especially Kefnet.
I had this game against Esper control were I gigadrowsed his lands in his upkeep on turn , played exhaustion on turn 3, and then Kefnet on turn 4...and then snowballed from there.
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Narset's Reversal Seems like it could work here. In some cases it's a weird Remand, but it also has combo potential to double-dip on our turn spells/interaction. Also a neat upside is that it can stop turns spells from exiling when they resolve, (because the copy is the one that actually resolves not the original card). Thoughts?
As for it's place in Taking Turns, I could see it being played in the more turbo fog styled decks that run more at instant speed. I may be wrong.
Lots of cards from this set are going to need testing
You cannot change the mode chosen by the opponent ( same happens with commandeer ), you can change the target of the modes, if there is no legal target in either one of the two modes, the spell will just fizzle.
I know many players are excited about Kefnet, but I've been mostly impressed by Narset, Parter of Veils 1UU. She can practically brake the symmetry of ours Mines and Edicts, plus she gives us 2 ticks down of Azcanta.
Right now I'm trying to find room for:
1 x God-Eternal Kefnet
1 x Narset, Parter of Viels
1 x Dovin, Hand of Control
0-1 x Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
sideboard 0-1 x blast zone
sideboard ??? - Ashiok, Dream Render (turbofog sandbag maybe)
I think I have room to cut one of my Part the waterveils since Kefnet will help make up for 1 fewer timewalk and they are both late game. The rest of it i really need to evaluate my list.
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