I wish I knew how to format better on this website lol
But for the -1 Dictate, I think of it as trimming.. Like in my build I run 4x Dictate, 1x Howling Mine, 1x Search for Azcanta so on my game two it becomes more about out classing the specific matchup then it is about quickly getting to the combo since their sideboard strategy will be targeting your deck.. Like if you ask anybody after a matchup how they sided against you they will probably say something along the lines of "I didn't really have that much to side in but I brought in enchantment/artifact removal since you run dictate and howling mine" so by that it makes since to trim 1 to play slower.
I think that is the best way to explain my rationale.
As for the exhaustion and gigadrowse - I think it is right to side them out in some matchups but I haven't really figured out which ones seem appropriate. I know that against Mardu and control matchups you almost always want to leave them all in... But i could see trimming them against aggro strategies and creature decks that swarm the field.
And yeah cutting a land is often appropriate because you are siding out larger spells for more interactive ones thus shrinking your mana curve.
I think the reason I cut a dictate over Howling Mine is because I run 4 as opposed to 1.. and i don't think the statistics change in finding one during the game since I also run: 4x Serum Visions, 2x Opt, 1x Search for Azcanta... Thats a lot of filtering and I don't often have games where I can't find an engine.. Also, Dictate can be better for our opponents in some matchups (ie, burn/control/mardu). Keep in mind that if you flash it in on the end of their turn 3 they will still get a draw 2 at least once.. and if they are running - thought seize/discard effects they can still fight you from going off and in the burn matchup they will usually draw into the last couple points of burn... (just something to keep in mind!)
But I think you're right in cutting a serum visions.. for some reason I never do?.. lol
I think it's because generally I win game one (like over 70% of the time) so game 2 I usually try to play more of a control matchup while digging for sideboard tech and I usually try to combo off on turn 6 (a little later than usual)
I wish I knew how to format better on this website lol
But for the -1 Dictate, I think of it as trimming.. Like in my build I run 4x Dictate, 1x Howling Mine, 1x Search for Azcanta so on my game two it becomes more about out classing the specific matchup then it is about quickly getting to the combo since their sideboard strategy will be targeting your deck.. Like if you ask anybody after a matchup how they sided against you they will probably say something along the lines of "I didn't really have that much to side in but I brought in enchantment/artifact removal since you run dictate and howling mine" so by that it makes since to trim 1 to play slower.
I think that is the best way to explain my rationale.
In that case, you’re probably better off cutting the Mine or possibly even the Search before you trim on Dictates. Both of the former, being playable only at sorcery speed, are more vulnerable to that sort of interaction—and of course Mine letting the opponent draw first is particularly dangerous in some of the matchups you mention. The great thing about Dictate is you can always just sandbag it if the timing isn’t right.
As for the exhaustion and gigadrowse - I think it is right to side them out in some matchups but I haven't really figured out which ones seem appropriate. I know that against Mardu and control matchups you almost always want to leave them all in... But i could see trimming them against aggro strategies and creature decks that swarm the field.
Over the next few days I’ll be trying to nail down some sideboarding protocols for my deck. Assuming I’m on the right track with those, they may prove useful to this purpose.
And yeah cutting a land is often appropriate because you are siding out larger spells for more interactive ones thus shrinking your mana curve.
For sure, and the practice of making that land a Gemstone Cavern on the play and an Island on the draw is just so delightfully efficient! Gotta love it.
Never cut a dictate. You can consider cutting a mine (especially on the draw), but never a dictate. You usually can't win without an engine card. Don't forget to cut a serum visions (or two) when siding in Chalice. Having a card like remand in the deck offers easier sideboard options. When I was still one 4 Temporal Mastery I sometimes cut them against controle style decks. No good having your miracle countered and leaving yourself tapped out.
I agree with everything here. Going down 1-2 Serum, depending on how many slots are in need of freeing up, has felt perfect in Chalice matchups.
Your observation regarding Temporal is a good one; I still find that trading it one-for-one is fine early on, since it’s the most dead card in the 75 when sitting in hand. The big exception here is if you’re suspicious of a Remand, which is fairly bad to run an early Miracle into.
In my oppinion Taking Turns is currently too slow in the meta.
I like the style of that deck but never win with it. It takes too long to find the lock.
Are you using your pseudo-walks (Gigadrowse, Exhaustion, Cryptic, etc.) aggressively enough? Turns seems plenty viable to me right now. You’ll lose more often than not to nut draws from the quickest decks in the format, but their more middling draws are very beatable, and this deck has great game against anything that isn’t balls-out fast.
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Yeah I think I will cut a Howling Mine instead.. good point!
And like I said if you fall back a few pages in the forum you'll see a post I did before Starcity Worcester that breaks down the top decks of the format and how they sideboard and whatnot... Might be a good place to start off and might offer some ideas
Also, if you don't mind.. a couple posts up I posted what Im thinking for a sideboard for a big tournament this weekend. Can you guys give some input? I don't really think I have a lot of graveyard hate which I might need... That's my only concern but I plan to beat dredge vine and those creature based ones with terminus and pray I don't play against KCI lol
I actually did after he became a Jeskai staple.. but he doesn't fit in this deck...
Turn 5 you should just be winning the game by then... Could probably get away running him in the sideboard for grindy matchups or in a UW As Foretold build though!
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There's a lot of back and forth on which color splash (if any) is best... ultimately they are all doing the same thing really
I think your best bet would be to continue just playing the deck each week (it'll definitely get easier to understand over time) plus I would watch some youtube videos of the deck:
Channel LSV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7YAhGwG-3E
Channel Cheon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jn5aYmco3U&t=24s
Although these videos are mono blue, the core of the deck is the important part to get better with. After that the color splash is just for sideboard options usually and doesn't really effect the combo portion
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What is everyone's thoughts on Unwind from Dominaria?
Seems like a really good sideboard option... Allows you to protect yourself on their turn 3 and still be able to cast a Dictate EOT....
I've been trying to spice up the sideboard lately and it seems interesting
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Yeah I think I will cut a Howling Mine instead.. good point!
And like I said if you fall back a few pages in the forum you'll see a post I did before Starcity Worcester that breaks down the top decks of the format and how they sideboard and whatnot... Might be a good place to start off and might offer some ideas
Also, if you don't mind.. a couple posts up I posted what Im thinking for a sideboard for a big tournament this weekend. Can you guys give some input? I don't really think I have a lot of graveyard hate which I might need... That's my only concern but I plan to beat dredge vine and those creature based ones with terminus and pray I don't play against KCI lol
Yep, I gave your sideboard layout another look. I like it! It’s always important to be aware of sideboard changes your opponent is likely to make—-but IMO it’s also important not to overboard against opposing sideboard possibilities, especially if they represent minor edges gained or lost. A fine line to walk, at times.
The crucial thing is to be vigilant against the most brutal hosers. Gaddock Teeg is a great example: he’s a sideboard-only player in the format, and he not only stops us from going off, he also shuts down out wraths and Cryptics. Teeg is great against KCI and UWC, and with those prominent in the meta you should expect to see Teeg against Bogles (in multiple copies), along with basically any GWx CoCo, Chord, or Eldritch Evolution deck.
Alright I hate to double post but my LGS is having a big "Win an Underground Sea" tournament this weekend and i'm trying to tweak my sideboard..
What do you think of:
The main focus is to have enough interaction against: Jeskai/Graveyard/KCI/Burn as those appear to be my most difficult matchups.. I think the increased number of dispel might help a lot and I have recently started to like Tormod's Crypt since it doesn't hurt us at all (The 1x Rest in Peace is for KCI since Tormods doesn't synergies with stony silence)
You’re definitely well set up against the matchups you’ve mentioned. I see the reasoning behind Tormod’s Crypt, but I’m still not sure it’s where you want to be, especially given the Stony nonbo you mentioned. Have you considered Surgical Extraction? I’ve settled on that card as my grave hate of choice. Being able to cast it on the Bridgevine opponent’s T1, even when you’re on the draw, is relevant. Snap-Surgical is real as well. But yeah, overall your sideboard looks strong.
@Narox, maybe post your list for critiques. Reid Duke’s gameplay footage from a couple years back with UW Turns is also well worth watching. His list is outdated now, but as always his insight and thought processes are next level.
Still crushing it with this deck. 4-1 online last night, with a particularly crazy G2 against Death and Taxes. So his progression was T1 Tec Edge + Vial, T2 Plains, T3 Plains + Displacer, T4 Cavern naming Angel, Vial on 3. I was leaning hard on my T2 Thing to try getting there, and his progression was insane against that. He could reset my Thing with a Displacer activation, blink it with the Flickerwisp I assumed (correctly) he had, and even flash in Restoration Angel to blink the Wisp again. Looked unbeatable, but here’s how I got there:
Played a couple Serums over a couple turns, ticking Thing down to 2. My opponent untaps and resets him with Displacer, keeping his Vial open. I make my 5th land drop and pass. Opponent untaps and passes back. On his end step I Gigadrowse three lands, holding up Echoing Truth. Flashing in Angel doesn’t accomplish much there, so instead he activates Displacer to reset Thing. Still on the end step, I Truth the Vial, which of course forces the Flickerwisp to come out and blink my Thing.
Opponent is tapped out. Land, Time Warp (no mine effects down), end step get my Thing back, go again. Land, Boomerang a Plains, Warp, go again. No more time walks in hand. Serum into a land, Cryptic to bounce a Plains and draw, flip Thing, bounce his dudes, hit for 7, pass. Now he’s left with Tec Edge and Cavern naming Angel as his two lands, and no Vial, so he can’t cast Wisp—all he could do was go Plains into Displacer, and from there I Gigadrowsed/Exhausted/Crypticed my way to the win. So my only hope of winning was flipping a Thing and keeping him flipped, the opponent had three different ways (one of them repeatable) to reset him, and the deck still got there. This is why Turns is an absolute blast to play!
Damn that's impressive! Going up against any form of Death and Taxes/Eldrazi variant involves a lot of navigating..! One of my best matches was against the deck too where I was able to combo through a Thalia which was absolutely insane because he had ripped my hand apart with Thought-Knot Seers and Tide hollow scullers.. it was nuts
As for the sideboard, im still tweaking it... I feel like I can't ever get it 100% lol.. Ive been experimenting with spell pierce and Unwind in the sideboard for the past week... I WANNA WIN THAT UNDERGROUND SEA! lol
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Y'all still considering a red splash for pyroclasm in this humans meta?
I'm loving my UR list and haven't changed it much in a while. I dropped search for azcanta completely, and have dropped down from 3 to 2 Cryptic. I may go back to three at some point but I'm trying to lower my curve a bit.
Still running 2 Jace but may drop to one. Currently running one snapcaster mage but may go to 2. Additionally I'm running ancestral vision as my 'howling mine' equivalents (3 or 4 of them) and enjoying the card.
In this creature heavy meta I might start running maindeck thing in the ice. Did it before and it was great. Could work out.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Idk I tried red for a week and although it shines against like Elves and Humans in particular, it doesn't really have that strong of interaction against KCI, Mardu, Jeskai/UW Control which are also on the up swing...
I think white and black are the way to go atm since they offer better interaction
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Alright guys! So I had that store tournament today and unfortunately I didn't play as well as usual... So rather than a match by match report Ill hit some of the key points:
-A lot of my mis plays actually came from trying to be extremely mana efficient (ie, casting Part the Waterveil on 6 mana with exhaustion/gigadrowse in hand etc..).. I lost my first matchup against Thing in the Ice control-ish because he had a remand. I usually try to sequence correctly but in that moment the right play would have been to play slow
-I played against amulet titan and actually won game 1 by casting exhaustion so he wasn't able to pay for his pact triggers. WHICH FELT INCREDIBLE!! lol but ultimately the matchup was rough and he was able to navigate around counter spells and removal and I was light on mana for the other games
-I have officially found what I consider to be the optimal sideboard for my list: 3 Terminus, 1 Supreme Verdict, 1 Stony Silence, 1 Rest in Peace, 1 Commandeer, 1 Ceremonious Rejection, 2 Chalice of the Void, 2 Timely Reinforcements, and 3 Dispel... it seems like we are in the dawn of UW Control as Teferi is incredible and was what control decks needed to stay at the top so the 3 Dispel help a lot
Overall, I'm kind of disappointed. I have been playing the deck for quite a while now and I made so many minor misplays.. but there's always more to learn.
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let's talk about nexus of fate. considering the atrocity that is being a buy-a-box promo, standard has demonstrated that nexus is a very powerful card in the right deck. the current type 2 turbo fog deck features gift of paradise, teferi, hero of dominaria, and nexus of fate to cast time walks at instant speed on their end step by floating the enchanted land mana, then using the untap trigger from teferi's +1 to generate enough mana in that one phase to cast nexus.
i thought about shifting that paradigm to modern, where our card pool is much greater, but i suppose one must also consider that disruption in this format is also greater. i still believe that the rewards far outweigh the risks, and so far i've been trying a list as follows:
i admit though that this is still a work-in-progress, most notably the sideboard and win conditions. the manabase could use some help too, but right now i feel it's fine.
the main win condition of the deck is by milling through sphinx's tutelage, which is a bit fragile since there is definitely the possibility of decking oneself through all the mine effects. the best way to prevent a suicidal end is to stop playing mine effects once you reach about four, then use teferi's minus to tuck our own mines away once we are very close to decking, then loop draws with shuffled nexus of fates.
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First they came for the Cantrips, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Cantrip.
Then they came for the Artifacts, and I didn't speak up, because I was an Instant.
Then they came for the Rituals, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't really a Ritual.
Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.
Damn that's impressive! Going up against any form of Death and Taxes/Eldrazi variant involves a lot of navigating..! One of my best matches was against the deck too where I was able to combo through a Thalia which was absolutely insane because he had ripped my hand apart with Thought-Knot Seers and Tide hollow scullers.. it was nuts
Yeah dude, it always feels great to fight through so much hate and come through victorious on the other side. Not every match, of course...smooth sailing and easy wins are also nice.
Y'all still considering a red splash for pyroclasm in this humans meta?
I'm loving my UR list and haven't changed it much in a while. I dropped search for azcanta completely, and have dropped down from 3 to 2 Cryptic. I may go back to three at some point but I'm trying to lower my curve a bit.
Still running 2 Jace but may drop to one. Currently running one snapcaster mage but may go to 2. Additionally I'm running ancestral vision as my 'howling mine' equivalents (3 or 4 of them) and enjoying the card.
In this creature heavy meta I might start running maindeck thing in the ice. Did it before and it was great. Could work out.
Most of those changes sounds good (I'm a 3+ Cryptic man myself, but that would probably change if I were splashing). As for UR, I tend to agree with zcowan that it seems a touch outclassed by UW and UB at the moment. IMO, this is partially because Push and Path tend to be more valuable than Bolt is in the context of our deck, and partially because, when you consider things beyond getting rid of creatures, the hand disruption of UB and the hard hate cards of UW outshine the options UR brings to the table against a broad, blind meta.
That said, I agree that Pyroclasm is a major attraction to UR, and a very strong inclusion at this moment in time. Ultimately, I'd say that the differences between any of the Turns color variants seem small enough that people can play what they like and/or what suits their local meta without feeling like they're making a suboptimal choice.
Alright guys! So I had that store tournament today and unfortunately I didn't play as well as usual...
Overall, I'm kind of disappointed. I have been playing the deck for quite a while now and I made so many minor misplays.. but there's always more to learn.
Sorry to hear, but that's the right attitude to have for sure. Next time!
Looks absolutely brutal to sit across from! At first glance it looks a little too low on interaction to survive G1. Your outs to fast creature starts seem a little lean, and your outs to spell-based combos are even fewer, especially if Exhaustion doesn't line up well against their progressions.
I'd probably be looking to trim on some ramp + one Teferi in favor of...not sure. Gigadrose and Cryptic are fairly unusable with that mana base (which, as you pointed out, may need some work as well). How do you feel about Remand? That might be your best bet. Regardless, the concept is sweet--let us know how testing goes.
So, as promised, I've been crafting sideboard protocols with an eye toward an upcoming SCG Open (I feel more and more convinced that Turns is better positioned than my other deck, Abzan--I expect that Abzan will suffer splash damage from all the graveyard hate people are sure to pack, and I also expect lots of UWx Control and Tron, where Turns is way more favored). These plans are for my monoU list, but perhaps the principles will help people splashing colors as well. I've come up with ideas for facing the top 50 or so decks in the format (yes, it was a very slow week at work, lol), but I won't just dump them all here and now. Let's start with the first ten, and if there's any interest I'll post more.
[B}I'm still fairly new to the deck, so please don't hesitate to tell me if you think I got something wrong![/B] Any and all feedback will be marvelously appreciated.
I'll explain the choice of Hibernation briefly. Bounce effects are the lifeblood of monoU Turns insofar as staying alive vs creature decks is concerned. Truth is a sweet one, and I being it in a lot, but it still sometimes only hits one body. Other options include Engulf the Shore, which I find broad and decent but a little too slow given how many things also outsize it; one-mana options like Unsummon and Vapor Snag which aren't impactful enough; and Hurkyl's Recall, which is great. So why Hibernation over Recall? Mostly because artifact decks can often rebuild almost immediately, especially if you're forced to fire off Recall during their attack step, which you often will. Hibernation, by contrast, is almost always a 2+ turn pseudo-Walk versus anything you'll bring it in against. It's also another out to Gaddock Teeg. I'm sold.
So, on to the sideboard plans:
[b]Tron:[/b]
+1 Ceremonious Rejection
+1 Commandeer
+1 Negate
-1 Part the Waterveil
-1 Serum Visions
-1 Exhaustion
[b]Burn[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Dispel
+1 Negate
+1 Commandeer
-2 Howling Mine
-1 Land (when I cut a land, it's always Gemstone on the play and Island on the draw)
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Serum Visions
-3 Gigadrowse
[b]UWx Control[/b]
+1 Commandeer
+1 Negate
+2 Dispel
-1 Serum Visions
-1 Part the Waterveil
-2 Exhaustion
[b]GBx Midrange[/b]
+1 Commandeer
+1 Hibernation
-1 Gigadrowse
-1 Part the Waterveil
[b]Storm[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Dispel
+1 Negate
+1 Commandeer
+1 Echoing Truth
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-2 Howling Mine
-1 Boomerang
-3 Gigadrowse
-2 Exhaustion
-1 Cryptic Command
[b]Ad Nauseam[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Dispel
+1 Negate
+1 Commandeer
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-3 Gigadrowse
-1 Exhaustion
-2 Serum Visions
[b]Counters Company[/b]
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+1 Hibernation
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-2 Gigadrowse
[b]Bogles[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+1 Hibernation
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-3 Gigadrowse
-1 Serum Visions
-1 Howling Mine (draw) or Serum Visions (play)
[b]Humans[/b]
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Jace, the Mind Scupltor
-1 Remand
[b]Bridgevine[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+2 Surgical Extraction
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Boomerang
-3 Gigadrowse
-1 Howling Mine
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
There you have it. Once more, any and all thoughts will be most welcomed! Thanks for reading.
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^Apologies for the ugly formatting (and the couple typos). Couldn't preview the post without getting redirected to a page full of gibberish, and now I can't edit either. The forum has been wonky of late.
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Finally someone says it! It double posted my thing yesterday and gave me the same gibberish!
So I have to say, that is a very clean mono-blue list and I do like the 1x hibernation in the sideboard... seems relevant since you lack Terminus/Supreme Verdict.. definitely seems like it would slow down Elves and is a response to Teeg.. (I got one of those slapped down on the table to me the other day)
As for the sideboard strategies:
For Tron, I would consider cutting a Remand over Exhaustion.. Usually if they have infinite mana with those God forsaken lands then they can just double cast relevant things and it is easy for them to play around.. Exhaustion on the other hand completely shuts them out..
For Control you could probably side in the Thing in the Ice since they will cut removal after side-boarding to add countermagic.. That's what I used to do when I ran them.. It also puts a fast clock that leaves less room for them to claw their way out...
For Storm I wouldn't cut so heavily on Gigadrowse and I'd probably prefer them over Thing in the Ice... Casting it on their upkeep forces them into an awkward spot on turn 3.. Unless your mindset is the goblin tokens from Empty the Warrens; then I completely agree
Other than that, it looks spot on! You got a lot of things absolutely correct (in my opinion of course).. Amazing that you not too long ago got into the deck and have a solid grasp on it! Cheers mate
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Finally someone says it! It double posted my thing yesterday and gave me the same gibberish!
So I have to say, that is a very clean mono-blue list and I do like the 1x hibernation in the sideboard... seems relevant since you lack Terminus/Supreme Verdict.. definitely seems like it would slow down Elves and is a response to Teeg.. (I got one of those slapped down on the table to me the other day)
As for the sideboard strategies:
For Tron, I would consider cutting a Remand over Exhaustion.. Usually if they have infinite mana with those God forsaken lands then they can just double cast relevant things and it is easy for them to play around.. Exhaustion on the other hand completely shuts them out..
It’s a tough call because all of our blue interaction is so great against them! Cutting an Exhaustion definitely feels bad, so at the end of the day, I think I like your advice—might as well err on the side of being proactive if it’s that close of a call. May also have to experiment with shaving a second Serum as well. In any case, this matchup is utterly fantastic for us.
For Control you could probably side in the Thing in the Ice since they will cut removal after side-boarding to add countermagic.. That's what I used to do when I ran them.. It also puts a fast clock that leaves less room for them to claw their way out...
Hmmm, interesting. I’m a little leery of shifting to the Thing plan, just because sticking to the time walks seems so strong in a 4x Gigadrowse build. Any mine effect at any point->Gigadrowse them down on their end step->untap and go off. This is safer and more reliable against Control than most archetypes, simply because they don’t clock fast enough to punish us for playing a Mine or Dictate. I’d worry that trying to force action early via Thing could lead to us losing early resource trades and giving them a window to slam Teferi, for instance. With the amount of counter magic post side, I’m quite happy to play draw-go with them until I have a Gigadrowse and a turn spell in hand. That’s been my experience thus far, at least, but I’ll keep Thing in mind for future games and try to game out how he would do in these matchups.
For Storm I wouldn't cut so heavily on Gigadrowse and I'd probably prefer them over Thing in the Ice... Casting it on their upkeep forces them into an awkward spot on turn 3.. Unless your mindset is the goblin tokens from Empty the Warrens; then I completely agree
Sweeping up the tokens (and the cost reducers, for that matter) is a real upside, but Thing comes in against Storm simply because he’s the most realistic way to win. We all know Storm can kill T3 undisrupted a fair amount of the time, and T4 with high consistency. I fear we’re fated to lose most “trades” on the stack—especially since in monoU I have no kill spell for their cost reducers. Thing lets me fight a rearguard action, if you will, while advancing my wincon—I don’t have to keep them from going off forever, just long enough to flip Thing. With Mines being cut, that seems a lot more feasible than sticking a Dictate and then resolving a Warp through their one-mana counters without dying.
Other than that, it looks spot on! You got a lot of things absolutely correct (in my opinion of course).. Amazing that you not too long ago got into the deck and have a solid grasp on it! Cheers mate
Thanks as always, my friend.
I went 13-2 over the weekend in the tourney practice lobby! That’s my best run ever, with any deck. I’m a big believer in Turns right now, especially with UWx in the ascendancy and Tron maintaining its Tier 1 meta share. Our Humans matchup still seems awful, but leaving them aside, I feel great against the current field.
More sideboard plans for everyone’s perusal (this time with an explanatory blurb accompanying each, and without the formatting fails!):
Hollow One
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+2 Surgical Extraction
-2 Howling Mine
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Land
-1 Gigadrowse
I don’t know if cutting Mines is correct, but this matchup seems very winnable without them. Exhaustion, Gigadrowse, Cryptic, and Boomerang are all great, and when the blue interaction lines up so well, I like bringing in Thing and hedging against getting run over by nut draws.
Grixis Shadow
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+1 Echoing Truth
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Land
-1 Cryptic Command
-2 Exhaustion
I like shifting to Thing here because Stubborn Denial is so strong against time walks, and leaning on Thing seems better than trying to win the counter war with Dispels. Gigadrowse > Exhaustion here because they play few threats and often do not tap out.
KCI
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Negate
+1 Ceremonious Rejection
+1 Echoing Truth
-3 Exhaustion
-2 Gigadrowse
-1 Boomerang
-1 Land
This plan looks solid enough—stick a mine effect or a Thing and then hold up counter magic until it’s time to go off—but I’m a little less confident here than with some other plans. Our traditional forms of interaction all seem mediocre or bad. Maybe I should leave an Exhaustion in instead of using that Truth?
GW Value Town
+2 Thing in the Ice
+1 Echoing Truth
+1 Hibernation
+1 Surgical Extraction
-2 Part the Waterveil
-2 Gigadrowse
-1 Boomerang
Fairly typical side strats against a Gx grindy creature deck, with a miser’s Surgical included to fight their recursive shenanigans. Exhaustion > Gigadrowse here because they’ll tap out almost every turn.
Mardu Pyromancer
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Gigadrowse
-1 Howling Mine
Thing and Truth are slams dunks here, but I’m frankly not sure about the rest. Is Surgical worth bringing in? Possibly, but I don’t like the card disadvantage here, and I’m already struggling for cuts. Jace stays despite being bad against the token army because he can win through Bridge. I could cut a land and a Boomerang or something for Surgicals, but I’m really not certain. Any thoughts?
Bant Spirits
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
-1 Cryptic Command
-1 Exhaustion
-2 Part the Waterveil
Not much to do here besides get leaner and lower to the ground, and try to stay alive long enough to go off. Time walks going over the top of Queller is helpful. Shedding some clunky cards here.
Affinity
+3 Chalice of the Void (play)
+2 Thing in the Ice
+1 Ceremonious Rejection
+2 Echoing Truth
-2 Howling Mine
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Land
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (play)
-1 Boomerang (play)
-1 Exhaustion (play)
Chalice is great here, but there’s a large enough difference between play and draw for me to draw a distinction. Cryptic can be awkward against their manlands, but it’s good enough at tapping down a wide board or bouncing a creature that they’ve gone all-in on via Ravager that I opted to keep all three in while cutting other cards.
Eldrazi Tron
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+1 Ceremonious Rejection
-2 Part the Waterveil
-2 Gigadrowse
-1 Serum Visions
This matchup is great—even their nut draws are beatable. Gigadrowse and Exhaustion are both generally awesome but line up poorly against Reality Smasher, but I think Exhaustion is slightly better overall. Be careful of Warping Wail blowing out your first time walk.
Dredge
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Commandeer
-2 Howling Mine
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Land
-1 Gigadrowse
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Same plan here as against Hollow One, with the lone addition of cutting Jace (bounce effect is much worse here) for Commandeer (plenty of reasonably juicy targets in Conflagarate, Cathartic Reunion, and even Looting, which can cripple their progression if taken).
This matchup is great, so I’m keeping it simple. Commandeering a ramp spell is perfectly legitimate. Play around Choke if you can, because it’s the one card that can really get you.
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Okay so I caved in and have started play testing around a similar Nexus of Fate Standard deck for modern.. I don't own the Nexus yet because I want them to drop in price but I've been playing around with proxies.. seems like a lot of fun! Keep in mind this is early deck tech here and nothing close to current level Taking Turns in competitiveness.. but it has potential lol
The idea is that you run an increased number of lands and play more like a control list that then digs in the later turns for Nexus of Fate.. My current thoughts are that it could probably use more fetch lands to thin the deck and make brainstorming with Jace better... I also think that it could use a little more interaction. This style of Taking Turns makes a lot better use of exhaustion in my opinion so I could see trying to fit gigadrowse as well..
Let me know if you guys have any ideas, suggestions, etc... lol
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Tested Plumeveil in place of Titi and initial results went well. At best, its a 3cmc surprise removal on tiny creatures. At worst, it gets reflectored or quelled. But I'm not sure of its long term results.
The lack of Titi means we cant side out Ptw as we lack a kill con in the deck. Depending on Jace's ult is just not going to work most of the time against the faster decks.
Has anyone else tested it or other creatures such as Wall of Denial out?
I don't think 3 cmc win conditions like that or even Wall of Denial are where you want to be... especially since you usually want to be either casting Dictate on their EOT or casting an exhaustion into something on turn 4 like Jace...
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But for the -1 Dictate, I think of it as trimming.. Like in my build I run 4x Dictate, 1x Howling Mine, 1x Search for Azcanta so on my game two it becomes more about out classing the specific matchup then it is about quickly getting to the combo since their sideboard strategy will be targeting your deck.. Like if you ask anybody after a matchup how they sided against you they will probably say something along the lines of "I didn't really have that much to side in but I brought in enchantment/artifact removal since you run dictate and howling mine" so by that it makes since to trim 1 to play slower.
I think that is the best way to explain my rationale.
As for the exhaustion and gigadrowse - I think it is right to side them out in some matchups but I haven't really figured out which ones seem appropriate. I know that against Mardu and control matchups you almost always want to leave them all in... But i could see trimming them against aggro strategies and creature decks that swarm the field.
And yeah cutting a land is often appropriate because you are siding out larger spells for more interactive ones thus shrinking your mana curve.
But I think you're right in cutting a serum visions.. for some reason I never do?.. lol
I think it's because generally I win game one (like over 70% of the time) so game 2 I usually try to play more of a control matchup while digging for sideboard tech and I usually try to combo off on turn 6 (a little later than usual)
In that case, you’re probably better off cutting the Mine or possibly even the Search before you trim on Dictates. Both of the former, being playable only at sorcery speed, are more vulnerable to that sort of interaction—and of course Mine letting the opponent draw first is particularly dangerous in some of the matchups you mention. The great thing about Dictate is you can always just sandbag it if the timing isn’t right.
Over the next few days I’ll be trying to nail down some sideboarding protocols for my deck. Assuming I’m on the right track with those, they may prove useful to this purpose.
For sure, and the practice of making that land a Gemstone Cavern on the play and an Island on the draw is just so delightfully efficient! Gotta love it.
I agree with everything here. Going down 1-2 Serum, depending on how many slots are in need of freeing up, has felt perfect in Chalice matchups.
Your observation regarding Temporal is a good one; I still find that trading it one-for-one is fine early on, since it’s the most dead card in the 75 when sitting in hand. The big exception here is if you’re suspicious of a Remand, which is fairly bad to run an early Miracle into.
Are you using your pseudo-walks (Gigadrowse, Exhaustion, Cryptic, etc.) aggressively enough? Turns seems plenty viable to me right now. You’ll lose more often than not to nut draws from the quickest decks in the format, but their more middling draws are very beatable, and this deck has great game against anything that isn’t balls-out fast.
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And like I said if you fall back a few pages in the forum you'll see a post I did before Starcity Worcester that breaks down the top decks of the format and how they sideboard and whatnot... Might be a good place to start off and might offer some ideas
Also, if you don't mind.. a couple posts up I posted what Im thinking for a sideboard for a big tournament this weekend. Can you guys give some input? I don't really think I have a lot of graveyard hate which I might need... That's my only concern but I plan to beat dredge vine and those creature based ones with terminus and pray I don't play against KCI lol
Turn 5 you should just be winning the game by then... Could probably get away running him in the sideboard for grindy matchups or in a UW As Foretold build though!
I think your best bet would be to continue just playing the deck each week (it'll definitely get easier to understand over time) plus I would watch some youtube videos of the deck:
Channel LSV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7YAhGwG-3E
Channel Cheon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jn5aYmco3U&t=24s
Although these videos are mono blue, the core of the deck is the important part to get better with. After that the color splash is just for sideboard options usually and doesn't really effect the combo portion
Seems like a really good sideboard option... Allows you to protect yourself on their turn 3 and still be able to cast a Dictate EOT....
I've been trying to spice up the sideboard lately and it seems interesting
Yep, I gave your sideboard layout another look. I like it! It’s always important to be aware of sideboard changes your opponent is likely to make—-but IMO it’s also important not to overboard against opposing sideboard possibilities, especially if they represent minor edges gained or lost. A fine line to walk, at times.
The crucial thing is to be vigilant against the most brutal hosers. Gaddock Teeg is a great example: he’s a sideboard-only player in the format, and he not only stops us from going off, he also shuts down out wraths and Cryptics. Teeg is great against KCI and UWC, and with those prominent in the meta you should expect to see Teeg against Bogles (in multiple copies), along with basically any GWx CoCo, Chord, or Eldritch Evolution deck.
You’re definitely well set up against the matchups you’ve mentioned. I see the reasoning behind Tormod’s Crypt, but I’m still not sure it’s where you want to be, especially given the Stony nonbo you mentioned. Have you considered Surgical Extraction? I’ve settled on that card as my grave hate of choice. Being able to cast it on the Bridgevine opponent’s T1, even when you’re on the draw, is relevant. Snap-Surgical is real as well. But yeah, overall your sideboard looks strong.
@Narox, maybe post your list for critiques. Reid Duke’s gameplay footage from a couple years back with UW Turns is also well worth watching. His list is outdated now, but as always his insight and thought processes are next level.
Still crushing it with this deck. 4-1 online last night, with a particularly crazy G2 against Death and Taxes. So his progression was T1 Tec Edge + Vial, T2 Plains, T3 Plains + Displacer, T4 Cavern naming Angel, Vial on 3. I was leaning hard on my T2 Thing to try getting there, and his progression was insane against that. He could reset my Thing with a Displacer activation, blink it with the Flickerwisp I assumed (correctly) he had, and even flash in Restoration Angel to blink the Wisp again. Looked unbeatable, but here’s how I got there:
Played a couple Serums over a couple turns, ticking Thing down to 2. My opponent untaps and resets him with Displacer, keeping his Vial open. I make my 5th land drop and pass. Opponent untaps and passes back. On his end step I Gigadrowse three lands, holding up Echoing Truth. Flashing in Angel doesn’t accomplish much there, so instead he activates Displacer to reset Thing. Still on the end step, I Truth the Vial, which of course forces the Flickerwisp to come out and blink my Thing.
Opponent is tapped out. Land, Time Warp (no mine effects down), end step get my Thing back, go again. Land, Boomerang a Plains, Warp, go again. No more time walks in hand. Serum into a land, Cryptic to bounce a Plains and draw, flip Thing, bounce his dudes, hit for 7, pass. Now he’s left with Tec Edge and Cavern naming Angel as his two lands, and no Vial, so he can’t cast Wisp—all he could do was go Plains into Displacer, and from there I Gigadrowsed/Exhausted/Crypticed my way to the win. So my only hope of winning was flipping a Thing and keeping him flipped, the opponent had three different ways (one of them repeatable) to reset him, and the deck still got there. This is why Turns is an absolute blast to play!
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As for the sideboard, im still tweaking it... I feel like I can't ever get it 100% lol.. Ive been experimenting with spell pierce and Unwind in the sideboard for the past week... I WANNA WIN THAT UNDERGROUND SEA! lol
I'm loving my UR list and haven't changed it much in a while. I dropped search for azcanta completely, and have dropped down from 3 to 2 Cryptic. I may go back to three at some point but I'm trying to lower my curve a bit.
Still running 2 Jace but may drop to one. Currently running one snapcaster mage but may go to 2. Additionally I'm running ancestral vision as my 'howling mine' equivalents (3 or 4 of them) and enjoying the card.
In this creature heavy meta I might start running maindeck thing in the ice. Did it before and it was great. Could work out.
I think white and black are the way to go atm since they offer better interaction
-A lot of my mis plays actually came from trying to be extremely mana efficient (ie, casting Part the Waterveil on 6 mana with exhaustion/gigadrowse in hand etc..).. I lost my first matchup against Thing in the Ice control-ish because he had a remand. I usually try to sequence correctly but in that moment the right play would have been to play slow
-I played against amulet titan and actually won game 1 by casting exhaustion so he wasn't able to pay for his pact triggers. WHICH FELT INCREDIBLE!! lol but ultimately the matchup was rough and he was able to navigate around counter spells and removal and I was light on mana for the other games
-I have officially found what I consider to be the optimal sideboard for my list: 3 Terminus, 1 Supreme Verdict, 1 Stony Silence, 1 Rest in Peace, 1 Commandeer, 1 Ceremonious Rejection, 2 Chalice of the Void, 2 Timely Reinforcements, and 3 Dispel... it seems like we are in the dawn of UW Control as Teferi is incredible and was what control decks needed to stay at the top so the 3 Dispel help a lot
Overall, I'm kind of disappointed. I have been playing the deck for quite a while now and I made so many minor misplays.. but there's always more to learn.
i thought about shifting that paradigm to modern, where our card pool is much greater, but i suppose one must also consider that disruption in this format is also greater. i still believe that the rewards far outweigh the risks, and so far i've been trying a list as follows:
5 Island
3 Forest
3 Plains
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
2 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Scavenger Grounds
Creature:
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Angelsong
4 Nexus of Fate
Sorcery:
3 Exhaustion
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Time Warp
Enchantment:
3 Utopia Sprawl
3 Fertile Ground
2 Sphinx's Tutelage
3 Rites of Flourishing
4 Dictate of Kruphix
Planeswalker:
3 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
2 Dispel
2 Disenchant
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Damping Sphere
2 Path to Exile
2 Stony Silence
2 Settle the Wreckage
1 Supreme Verdict
i admit though that this is still a work-in-progress, most notably the sideboard and win conditions. the manabase could use some help too, but right now i feel it's fine.
the main win condition of the deck is by milling through sphinx's tutelage, which is a bit fragile since there is definitely the possibility of decking oneself through all the mine effects. the best way to prevent a suicidal end is to stop playing mine effects once you reach about four, then use teferi's minus to tuck our own mines away once we are very close to decking, then loop draws with shuffled nexus of fates.
Yeah dude, it always feels great to fight through so much hate and come through victorious on the other side. Not every match, of course...smooth sailing and easy wins are also nice.
Most of those changes sounds good (I'm a 3+ Cryptic man myself, but that would probably change if I were splashing). As for UR, I tend to agree with zcowan that it seems a touch outclassed by UW and UB at the moment. IMO, this is partially because Push and Path tend to be more valuable than Bolt is in the context of our deck, and partially because, when you consider things beyond getting rid of creatures, the hand disruption of UB and the hard hate cards of UW outshine the options UR brings to the table against a broad, blind meta.
That said, I agree that Pyroclasm is a major attraction to UR, and a very strong inclusion at this moment in time. Ultimately, I'd say that the differences between any of the Turns color variants seem small enough that people can play what they like and/or what suits their local meta without feeling like they're making a suboptimal choice.
Sorry to hear, but that's the right attitude to have for sure. Next time!
Looks absolutely brutal to sit across from! At first glance it looks a little too low on interaction to survive G1. Your outs to fast creature starts seem a little lean, and your outs to spell-based combos are even fewer, especially if Exhaustion doesn't line up well against their progressions.
I'd probably be looking to trim on some ramp + one Teferi in favor of...not sure. Gigadrose and Cryptic are fairly unusable with that mana base (which, as you pointed out, may need some work as well). How do you feel about Remand? That might be your best bet. Regardless, the concept is sweet--let us know how testing goes.
So, as promised, I've been crafting sideboard protocols with an eye toward an upcoming SCG Open (I feel more and more convinced that Turns is better positioned than my other deck, Abzan--I expect that Abzan will suffer splash damage from all the graveyard hate people are sure to pack, and I also expect lots of UWx Control and Tron, where Turns is way more favored). These plans are for my monoU list, but perhaps the principles will help people splashing colors as well. I've come up with ideas for facing the top 50 or so decks in the format (yes, it was a very slow week at work, lol), but I won't just dump them all here and now. Let's start with the first ten, and if there's any interest I'll post more.
[B}I'm still fairly new to the deck, so please don't hesitate to tell me if you think I got something wrong![/B] Any and all feedback will be marvelously appreciated.
First, for reference, my deck:
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Inkmoth Nexus
20x Island
4x Gigadrowse
3x Exhaustion
1x Boomerang
4x Dictate of Kruphix
4x Serum Visions
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Remand
3x Part the Waterveil
3x Temporal Mastery
4x Time Warp
Sideboard:
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thing in the Ice
2x Echoing Truth
2x Dispel
1x Negate
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Commandeer
1x Hibernation
I'll explain the choice of Hibernation briefly. Bounce effects are the lifeblood of monoU Turns insofar as staying alive vs creature decks is concerned. Truth is a sweet one, and I being it in a lot, but it still sometimes only hits one body. Other options include Engulf the Shore, which I find broad and decent but a little too slow given how many things also outsize it; one-mana options like Unsummon and Vapor Snag which aren't impactful enough; and Hurkyl's Recall, which is great. So why Hibernation over Recall? Mostly because artifact decks can often rebuild almost immediately, especially if you're forced to fire off Recall during their attack step, which you often will. Hibernation, by contrast, is almost always a 2+ turn pseudo-Walk versus anything you'll bring it in against. It's also another out to Gaddock Teeg. I'm sold.
So, on to the sideboard plans:
[b]Tron:[/b]
+1 Ceremonious Rejection
+1 Commandeer
+1 Negate
-1 Part the Waterveil
-1 Serum Visions
-1 Exhaustion
[b]Burn[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Dispel
+1 Negate
+1 Commandeer
-2 Howling Mine
-1 Land (when I cut a land, it's always Gemstone on the play and Island on the draw)
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Serum Visions
-3 Gigadrowse
[b]UWx Control[/b]
+1 Commandeer
+1 Negate
+2 Dispel
-1 Serum Visions
-1 Part the Waterveil
-2 Exhaustion
[b]GBx Midrange[/b]
+1 Commandeer
+1 Hibernation
-1 Gigadrowse
-1 Part the Waterveil
[b]Storm[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Dispel
+1 Negate
+1 Commandeer
+1 Echoing Truth
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-2 Howling Mine
-1 Boomerang
-3 Gigadrowse
-2 Exhaustion
-1 Cryptic Command
[b]Ad Nauseam[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Dispel
+1 Negate
+1 Commandeer
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-3 Gigadrowse
-1 Exhaustion
-2 Serum Visions
[b]Counters Company[/b]
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+1 Hibernation
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-2 Gigadrowse
[b]Bogles[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+1 Hibernation
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-3 Gigadrowse
-1 Serum Visions
-1 Howling Mine (draw) or Serum Visions (play)
[b]Humans[/b]
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Jace, the Mind Scupltor
-1 Remand
[b]Bridgevine[/b]
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+2 Surgical Extraction
-1 Land
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Boomerang
-3 Gigadrowse
-1 Howling Mine
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
There you have it. Once more, any and all thoughts will be most welcomed! Thanks for reading.
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So I have to say, that is a very clean mono-blue list and I do like the 1x hibernation in the sideboard... seems relevant since you lack Terminus/Supreme Verdict.. definitely seems like it would slow down Elves and is a response to Teeg.. (I got one of those slapped down on the table to me the other day)
As for the sideboard strategies:
For Tron, I would consider cutting a Remand over Exhaustion.. Usually if they have infinite mana with those God forsaken lands then they can just double cast relevant things and it is easy for them to play around.. Exhaustion on the other hand completely shuts them out..
For Control you could probably side in the Thing in the Ice since they will cut removal after side-boarding to add countermagic.. That's what I used to do when I ran them.. It also puts a fast clock that leaves less room for them to claw their way out...
For Storm I wouldn't cut so heavily on Gigadrowse and I'd probably prefer them over Thing in the Ice... Casting it on their upkeep forces them into an awkward spot on turn 3.. Unless your mindset is the goblin tokens from Empty the Warrens; then I completely agree
Other than that, it looks spot on! You got a lot of things absolutely correct (in my opinion of course).. Amazing that you not too long ago got into the deck and have a solid grasp on it! Cheers mate
It’s a tough call because all of our blue interaction is so great against them! Cutting an Exhaustion definitely feels bad, so at the end of the day, I think I like your advice—might as well err on the side of being proactive if it’s that close of a call. May also have to experiment with shaving a second Serum as well. In any case, this matchup is utterly fantastic for us.
Hmmm, interesting. I’m a little leery of shifting to the Thing plan, just because sticking to the time walks seems so strong in a 4x Gigadrowse build. Any mine effect at any point->Gigadrowse them down on their end step->untap and go off. This is safer and more reliable against Control than most archetypes, simply because they don’t clock fast enough to punish us for playing a Mine or Dictate. I’d worry that trying to force action early via Thing could lead to us losing early resource trades and giving them a window to slam Teferi, for instance. With the amount of counter magic post side, I’m quite happy to play draw-go with them until I have a Gigadrowse and a turn spell in hand. That’s been my experience thus far, at least, but I’ll keep Thing in mind for future games and try to game out how he would do in these matchups.
Sweeping up the tokens (and the cost reducers, for that matter) is a real upside, but Thing comes in against Storm simply because he’s the most realistic way to win. We all know Storm can kill T3 undisrupted a fair amount of the time, and T4 with high consistency. I fear we’re fated to lose most “trades” on the stack—especially since in monoU I have no kill spell for their cost reducers. Thing lets me fight a rearguard action, if you will, while advancing my wincon—I don’t have to keep them from going off forever, just long enough to flip Thing. With Mines being cut, that seems a lot more feasible than sticking a Dictate and then resolving a Warp through their one-mana counters without dying.
Thanks as always, my friend.
I went 13-2 over the weekend in the tourney practice lobby! That’s my best run ever, with any deck. I’m a big believer in Turns right now, especially with UWx in the ascendancy and Tron maintaining its Tier 1 meta share. Our Humans matchup still seems awful, but leaving them aside, I feel great against the current field.
More sideboard plans for everyone’s perusal (this time with an explanatory blurb accompanying each, and without the formatting fails!):
Hollow One
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+2 Surgical Extraction
-2 Howling Mine
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Land
-1 Gigadrowse
I don’t know if cutting Mines is correct, but this matchup seems very winnable without them. Exhaustion, Gigadrowse, Cryptic, and Boomerang are all great, and when the blue interaction lines up so well, I like bringing in Thing and hedging against getting run over by nut draws.
Grixis Shadow
+3 Chalice of the Void
+2 Thing in the Ice
+1 Echoing Truth
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Land
-1 Cryptic Command
-2 Exhaustion
I like shifting to Thing here because Stubborn Denial is so strong against time walks, and leaning on Thing seems better than trying to win the counter war with Dispels. Gigadrowse > Exhaustion here because they play few threats and often do not tap out.
KCI
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Negate
+1 Ceremonious Rejection
+1 Echoing Truth
-3 Exhaustion
-2 Gigadrowse
-1 Boomerang
-1 Land
This plan looks solid enough—stick a mine effect or a Thing and then hold up counter magic until it’s time to go off—but I’m a little less confident here than with some other plans. Our traditional forms of interaction all seem mediocre or bad. Maybe I should leave an Exhaustion in instead of using that Truth?
GW Value Town
+2 Thing in the Ice
+1 Echoing Truth
+1 Hibernation
+1 Surgical Extraction
-2 Part the Waterveil
-2 Gigadrowse
-1 Boomerang
Fairly typical side strats against a Gx grindy creature deck, with a miser’s Surgical included to fight their recursive shenanigans. Exhaustion > Gigadrowse here because they’ll tap out almost every turn.
Mardu Pyromancer
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Gigadrowse
-1 Howling Mine
Thing and Truth are slams dunks here, but I’m frankly not sure about the rest. Is Surgical worth bringing in? Possibly, but I don’t like the card disadvantage here, and I’m already struggling for cuts. Jace stays despite being bad against the token army because he can win through Bridge. I could cut a land and a Boomerang or something for Surgicals, but I’m really not certain. Any thoughts?
Bant Spirits
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
-1 Cryptic Command
-1 Exhaustion
-2 Part the Waterveil
Not much to do here besides get leaner and lower to the ground, and try to stay alive long enough to go off. Time walks going over the top of Queller is helpful. Shedding some clunky cards here.
Affinity
+3 Chalice of the Void (play)
+2 Thing in the Ice
+1 Ceremonious Rejection
+2 Echoing Truth
-2 Howling Mine
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Land
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor (play)
-1 Boomerang (play)
-1 Exhaustion (play)
Chalice is great here, but there’s a large enough difference between play and draw for me to draw a distinction. Cryptic can be awkward against their manlands, but it’s good enough at tapping down a wide board or bouncing a creature that they’ve gone all-in on via Ravager that I opted to keep all three in while cutting other cards.
Eldrazi Tron
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+1 Ceremonious Rejection
-2 Part the Waterveil
-2 Gigadrowse
-1 Serum Visions
This matchup is great—even their nut draws are beatable. Gigadrowse and Exhaustion are both generally awesome but line up poorly against Reality Smasher, but I think Exhaustion is slightly better overall. Be careful of Warping Wail blowing out your first time walk.
Dredge
+2 Thing in the Ice
+2 Echoing Truth
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Commandeer
-2 Howling Mine
-2 Part the Waterveil
-1 Land
-1 Gigadrowse
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Same plan here as against Hollow One, with the lone addition of cutting Jace (bounce effect is much worse here) for Commandeer (plenty of reasonably juicy targets in Conflagarate, Cathartic Reunion, and even Looting, which can cripple their progression if taken).
RG Valakut
+1 Commandeer
+1 Negate
-1 Gigadrowse
-1 Exhaustion
This matchup is great, so I’m keeping it simple. Commandeering a ramp spell is perfectly legitimate. Play around Choke if you can, because it’s the one card that can really get you.
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3 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Search for Azcanta
Counterspells (6)
2 Cryptic Command
2 Logic Knot
1 Negate
1 Mana Leak
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Time Warp
4 Nexus of Fate
3 Exhaustion
Creature Removal (7)
4 Terminus
3 Path to Exile
Draw (4)
4 Opt
Lands (23)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
7 Island
3 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Glacial Fortress
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Temple of Enlightenment
The idea is that you run an increased number of lands and play more like a control list that then digs in the later turns for Nexus of Fate.. My current thoughts are that it could probably use more fetch lands to thin the deck and make brainstorming with Jace better... I also think that it could use a little more interaction. This style of Taking Turns makes a lot better use of exhaustion in my opinion so I could see trying to fit gigadrowse as well..
Let me know if you guys have any ideas, suggestions, etc... lol
The lack of Titi means we cant side out Ptw as we lack a kill con in the deck. Depending on Jace's ult is just not going to work most of the time against the faster decks.
Has anyone else tested it or other creatures such as Wall of Denial out?