You still run 5x extra card effects. This just improves upon what you are drawing, and it fits within the curve nicely
But I will add, that part of the reasoning behind was my switch is because Howling Mine is becoming infinitely worse in a meta with Kolghan's Command and Abrupt Decay and many other quick artifact removal answers..
Hey all! This deck has caught my eye lately. I’ve tested a copied UB list several times now and had all kinds of fun, but for reasons steeped in both aesthetics (an on-board count of basic Islands breaking into the double digits is a thing of sheer beauty) and gameplay (my urge to Push/Brutality/Thoughtseize is well served by Abzan), I have been exploring the possibilities of mono-blue. After having read the primer—applause to all involved, it is very well done—and the last twenty-odd pages of this thread, here’s my first crack at a mono-blue list:
Any thoughts? I’m sure I’ll find some imbalances while sideboarding (too many cards for this matchup, not enough for that one), but without much experience it’s hard to see where those imbalances may be. Vapor Snag is one in particular that I haven’t seen in too many lists—I like it in theory due to the utility against T1 mana dorks, Delve threats, manlands, and just surviving hyperaggro in general, along with bouncing my own Snapcaster (I already sort of want to run a second copy of him, lol), but maybe I’m overrating Snag in this deck.
Thanks for reading; I look forward to any thoughts on the build. Oh, and the most important question of all: what art and printing of Islands do you favor?
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Hey Grim Flayer, welcome to Taking Turns!
It's definitely one of my favorite decks in magic.
So I like the mono blue build you have, but a couple of suggestions:
I would definitely make room for a second snap caster mage as a lot of games can be closed out quickly with just beatdowns (I would personally remove a cryptic command as running 4 isn't too common - I run 2 currently in my UW build)
I'd also recommend running Echoing Truth in the sideboard. I know that a lot of mono blue versions of the deck have a lot of success with that card over vapor snag because it can hit multiple creatures on your opponents board. Since Elves and Mardu Pyromancer and Humans are kind of the top aggro decks of the meta right now, Vapor Snag is very limited in slowing them down since it can only bounce one creature.
Hope this helps!
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Hey Grim Flayer, welcome to Taking Turns!
It's definitely one of my favorite decks in magic.
So I like the mono blue build you have, but a couple of suggestions:
I would definitely make room for a second snap caster mage as a lot of games can be closed out quickly with just beatdowns (I would personally remove a cryptic command as running 4 isn't too common - I run 2 currently in my UW build)
I'd also recommend running Echoing Truth in the sideboard. I know that a lot of mono blue versions of the deck have a lot of success with that card over vapor snag because it can hit multiple creatures on your opponents board. Since Elves and Mardu Pyromancer and Humans are kind of the top aggro decks of the meta right now, Vapor Snag is very limited in slowing them down since it can only bounce one creature.
Hope this helps!
Thanks, it absolutely does! And I can certainly see why this deck appeals to you; turning the corner and going off it so rewarding, given the challenges involved in reaching the late game.
Echoing Truth is for sure a card with a vastly higher ceiling, especially in this deck where the opponent’s life loss from Vapor Snag is almost completely irrelevant. Still, the idea of beginning to tempo them out on T1 remains appealing. It’s likely that I’m overrating that element of interaction, however. I’ll try out both cards for sure.
A second Snapcaster does sound great, and it’s true that the fourth Cryptic is the obvious cut. My thinking behind the full playset was 1) leverage the flexibility and raw power of the most powerful instant blue has access to in the format and 2) maximize my odds of being able to pass on T4 with Cryptic up. In my limited testing, I’ve never lost a game with a mine effect down and a Cryptic on curve. If a full playset is beyond the pale, I’m not wedded to the idea—and it’s probably correct for me to begin testing with a more stock quantity—but I would love someone to prove that 4x Cryptic is the strictly best way to play mono-blue.
Another thing I noticed upon review of my list: Temporal Trespass probably doesn’t belong in a deck without fetches. Whoops. In comes the third Part the Waterveil.
Thanks for your thoughts!
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Yeah temporal trespass also seemed a bit iffy but I could see it possibly working since you are running a lot of low mana spells and not as many snapcaster mages. If you up the amount of snapcaster I would definitely put in a third part the water veil instead..
Definitely keep us posted on how the 4x Cryptic Command feel.. I have loved that card since I first started modern and it is incredibly powerful. I think I should be running 3x but I can't really find room in my build.
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Yeah temporal trespass also seemed a bit iffy but I could see it possibly working since you are running a lot of low mana spells and not as many snapcaster mages. If you up the amount of snapcaster I would definitely put in a third part the water veil instead..
Definitely keep us posted on how the 4x Cryptic Command feel.. I have loved that card since I first started modern and it is incredibly powerful. I think I should be running 3x but I can't really find room in my build.
Part #3 is officially in over Trespass, as is Snapcaster #2 in favor of Thassa. With these changes having been made, I now seem to have a slick and efficient platform from which to attempt 4x Cryptic. Should they prove too clunky, it will be simple enough to cut one in favor of a 4th Gigadrowse/Exhaustion or something else (perhaps a one-of Search for Azcanta—it’s kind of a tricky card to rate in this shell, IMO).
Grim_Flayer 4 cryptic is too much in this deck, maybe just 2 is enough. Thassa is a kill in your deck you have already part the waterveil for kill and if you want to scry then put one copy of search of azcanta . And you should maybe put 2 or 3 thing in the ice in side against midrange deck and aggro decks.
You’re right about Thassa; she has not stood out as a positive in my testing, and as mentioned above, she has been replaced. I’d also be willing to bet that you’re right about the Cryptic count, but this is something I’m a little more interested in experimenting with extensively. To elaborate:
I’ve been watching some Turns gameplay over the last couple weeks. In one of Corbin Hosler’s recent videos (he’s done a couple in the past year, can’t recall which), he plays 4x Cryptic and specifically names it as an all-star, a pseudo-Warp for T4 much like our other, cheaper options can be in the earlier turns of the game. I’m about halfway through Jim Davis’ Turns stream, and he speaks at some length about how the deck’s weakest point lies in its ability to bridge the gap between resolving your first mine effect and taking your first extra turn. That said, he wasn’t very high on Cryptic specifically, but to me it fits that bill for the crucial T4 better than anything.
That said, I have played UW Control extensively in the past, and currently spend most of my MtG time grinding out advantage with Abzan, so given my background it’s very possible that I’m overrating the value and card parity afforded by Cryptic—I’m definitely not used to playing a deck full of card disadvantage spells like Gigadrowse and Exhaustion. Time will tell.
Thing in the sideboard does appear to be a strong option, but I worry about slots. Would you replace Chalice or Seas with 3x Thing? If not, where else would you find room?
Your list looks sweet! Congrats on the 3-0.
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@Lazote1, It was mentioned earlier in the forum but I too was not a big fan of Chalice in the sideboard and didn't see it's purpose but I have since come around... I describe the card as being deceptively bad since most of the time you don't realize just how bad it is hurting your opponent unless they played with their hand revealed.
It's a card that really smooths out our bad matchups (Burn, Mardu, etc..) and with x=1 it only hurts our serum visions which decrease in value as the game goes on anyhow..
As for Thing in the Ice, I think it is extremely powerful. I don't personally run it anymore because I am on the Terminus/Timely Reinforcements but I think that is a card that needs some tweaks mainboard to be a good sideboard option.. I know other people have mentioned running it without cantrips but from playing with them, they are definitely best with Opt since it allows for instant speed flipping and bouncing their permanents. (As well as serum visions of course).
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Alright so here is a question for everyone! @TimeWalkinOnSunshine maybe you could give some insight...
So i've been playing the deck for a while now, and I love brewing and thinking of ways to make the deck even crazier. So lately I've been thinking.. what if we stole the idea of cost reducers from Storm and ran Baral (and possibly go UR for Goblin Electromancer).. My idea is that you run more counter magic (possibly negate/mana leak mainboard and take advantage of Baral's looting..
Any ideas? Seems like a fun diversion from the main build of the deck
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As for Thing in the Ice, I think it is extremely powerful. I don't personally run it anymore because I am on the Terminus/Timely Reinforcements but I think that is a card that needs some tweaks mainboard to be a good sideboard option.. I know other people have mentioned running it without cantrips but from playing with them, they are definitely best with Opt since it allows for instant speed flipping and bouncing their permanents. (As well as serum visions of course).
Yeah. It seems to be that with Thing you either want to design the deck with it in mind (the super-disruptive build mentioned upthread that allows Thing to “flip at its own pace”), or you want to include cards like Opt, which synergize extremely well with Thing while being viable or near-viable choices in their own right.
Thing hasn’t done a whole lot for me so far (I’ve been testing against friends with a 17-card sideboard—the decklist I posted previously + 2 Thing), but then again I haven’t faced a ton of linear aggro, so for me the jury is still out on the question of what blend of Thing/Snag/Truth is best for mono-blue. Whiplash Trap also caught my attention. It’s spicy and has a high ceiling, but in the end is probably a little too cute.
In testing I haven’t lost a series yet, taking down Merfolk (twice), Dragon Skred, Mardu Pyromancer, and Grixis Shadow. Haven’t been punished yet for 4x Cryptic, and so far they seem to be a real lynchpin in my progressions. I feel quite confident in this build for the moment, with the aforementioned caveat of not being 100% sure that I’m optimized against linear aggro.
By all means give Baral a shot in testing, but my first impression of the idea is that it’s kind of a long shot. The sad truth is that draw-go control that leans heavily on countermagic isn’t very good in Modern. In fact, successful control decks in this format do basically everything but play draw-go with counters: traditional UWC which taps out for haymakers, UW Miracles, UR Breach/Moon variants, and of course Jeskai, which is basically removal.dec salted with a little countermagic. I think in the context of the Turns shell that the prospect of swapping Gigadrowse, Exhaustion, and even Boomerang for counters sounds like a downgrade. Baral also raises the specters of turning on the opponent’s removal, warping the deck construction around a fragile dude (do you cut the land count to take advantage of his cost reduction? If not, isn’t that often wasted value?), running afoul of the legendary rule, etc.
I’m still brand new to the archetype, so take this response for what it’s worth, but those are my initial reactions. Still, he’s worth a shot if you’re looking to change it up, and if you give him a run then let us know how it goes!
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Alright so here is a question for everyone! @TimeWalkinOnSunshine maybe you could give some insight...
So i've been playing the deck for a while now, and I love brewing and thinking of ways to make the deck even crazier. So lately I've been thinking.. what if we stole the idea of cost reducers from Storm and ran Baral (and possibly go UR for Goblin Electromancer).. My idea is that you run more counter magic (possibly negate/mana leak mainboard and take advantage of Baral's looting..
Any ideas? Seems like a fun diversion from the main build of the deck
I agree with Grim_Flayer that this overall sounds weaker. In particular, blanking removal spells (or making your opponent point removal at Snapcaster Mages that already got you value) is a big draw to the current builds of the deck, and adding Baral and/or Electromancer means that the opponent's removal is now very bad for us. The advantage is a potentially faster kill (T2 Baral, T3 Dictate, T4+ Warp), so I could imagine such a build being strong in a meta full of uninteractive linear decks. It also sounds like tons of fun when you get those fast kills! If you want to have fun with it then by all means give it a shot, but go in with the understanding that it's probably not as competitive.
Lmao so true! Just like Nikolich with his crazy Jeskai control lists he manages to place with sometimes
Like the deck runs only 4 time warp effects.. and ancestral vision but no as foretold? MY GOD.. *gasps*
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@Elpokitolama It's funny you mention that because I had been thinking the same thing .. The only problem though is that getting to Nexus of fate as well as keeping Teferi on board seems extremely difficult..
It would most likely involve cutting down on exhaustions and our card draw effects turning it more into a UW control...
Not sure that is more efficient.. but it would be sweet if someone brewed up a successful list!
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@Elpokitolama It's funny you mention that because I had been thinking the same thing .. The only problem though is that getting to Nexus of fate as well as keeping Teferi on board seems extremely difficult..
It would most likely involve cutting down on exhaustions and our card draw effects turning it more into a UW control...
Not sure that is more efficient.. but it would be sweet if someone brewed up a successful list!
Gotta work on that. I'm still brewing a weird miracles deck, but that one's next!
On the Thing in the Ice topic, if anyone's interested here's my good old Titi turbo turns list, still working fairly well:
Thing hasn’t done a whole lot for me so far (I’ve been testing against friends with a 17-card sideboard—the decklist I posted previously + 2 Thing), but then again I haven’t faced a ton of linear aggro, so for me the jury is still out on the question of what blend of Thing/Snag/Truth is best for mono-blue. Whiplash Trap also caught my attention. It’s spicy and has a high ceiling, but in the end is probably a little too cute.
Well, the emergence of the Bridgevine deck has clarified things for me. Echoing Truth really does seem to be the right call in terms of what mono-blue can do to survive the waves of early go-wide aggro. Thanks to those who gave me this advice.
It seems like there’s no clear best option for a Turns player; it also seems as though most people are willing to dedicate minimal slots to graveyard decks, preferring to offer them a speed bump while executing our own plan proactively (I like this approach). Still, these slots matter—what has and has not worked for you?
But I will add, that part of the reasoning behind was my switch is because Howling Mine is becoming infinitely worse in a meta with Kolghan's Command and Abrupt Decay and many other quick artifact removal answers..
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Gemstone Cavern
4x Time Warp
3x Temporal Mastery
2x Part the Waterveil
1x Temporal Trespass
4x Dictate of Kruphix
2x Howling Mine
3x Remand
4x Cryptic Command
3x Gigadrowse
3x Exhaustion
1x Boomerang
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
3x Spreading Seas
2x Dispel
2x Vapor Snag
1x Grafdigger’s Cage
1x Exhaustion
1x Spell Snare
1x Ceremonious Rejection
1x Commandeer
Any thoughts? I’m sure I’ll find some imbalances while sideboarding (too many cards for this matchup, not enough for that one), but without much experience it’s hard to see where those imbalances may be. Vapor Snag is one in particular that I haven’t seen in too many lists—I like it in theory due to the utility against T1 mana dorks, Delve threats, manlands, and just surviving hyperaggro in general, along with bouncing my own Snapcaster (I already sort of want to run a second copy of him, lol), but maybe I’m overrating Snag in this deck.
Thanks for reading; I look forward to any thoughts on the build. Oh, and the most important question of all: what art and printing of Islands do you favor?
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It's definitely one of my favorite decks in magic.
So I like the mono blue build you have, but a couple of suggestions:
I would definitely make room for a second snap caster mage as a lot of games can be closed out quickly with just beatdowns (I would personally remove a cryptic command as running 4 isn't too common - I run 2 currently in my UW build)
I'd also recommend running Echoing Truth in the sideboard. I know that a lot of mono blue versions of the deck have a lot of success with that card over vapor snag because it can hit multiple creatures on your opponents board. Since Elves and Mardu Pyromancer and Humans are kind of the top aggro decks of the meta right now, Vapor Snag is very limited in slowing them down since it can only bounce one creature.
Hope this helps!
Thanks, it absolutely does! And I can certainly see why this deck appeals to you; turning the corner and going off it so rewarding, given the challenges involved in reaching the late game.
Echoing Truth is for sure a card with a vastly higher ceiling, especially in this deck where the opponent’s life loss from Vapor Snag is almost completely irrelevant. Still, the idea of beginning to tempo them out on T1 remains appealing. It’s likely that I’m overrating that element of interaction, however. I’ll try out both cards for sure.
A second Snapcaster does sound great, and it’s true that the fourth Cryptic is the obvious cut. My thinking behind the full playset was 1) leverage the flexibility and raw power of the most powerful instant blue has access to in the format and 2) maximize my odds of being able to pass on T4 with Cryptic up. In my limited testing, I’ve never lost a game with a mine effect down and a Cryptic on curve. If a full playset is beyond the pale, I’m not wedded to the idea—and it’s probably correct for me to begin testing with a more stock quantity—but I would love someone to prove that 4x Cryptic is the strictly best way to play mono-blue.
Another thing I noticed upon review of my list: Temporal Trespass probably doesn’t belong in a deck without fetches. Whoops. In comes the third Part the Waterveil.
Thanks for your thoughts!
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Definitely keep us posted on how the 4x Cryptic Command feel.. I have loved that card since I first started modern and it is incredibly powerful. I think I should be running 3x but I can't really find room in my build.
Part #3 is officially in over Trespass, as is Snapcaster #2 in favor of Thassa. With these changes having been made, I now seem to have a slick and efficient platform from which to attempt 4x Cryptic. Should they prove too clunky, it will be simple enough to cut one in favor of a 4th Gigadrowse/Exhaustion or something else (perhaps a one-of Search for Azcanta—it’s kind of a tricky card to rate in this shell, IMO).
Regardless, I will be sure to keep you posted!
You’re right about Thassa; she has not stood out as a positive in my testing, and as mentioned above, she has been replaced. I’d also be willing to bet that you’re right about the Cryptic count, but this is something I’m a little more interested in experimenting with extensively. To elaborate:
I’ve been watching some Turns gameplay over the last couple weeks. In one of Corbin Hosler’s recent videos (he’s done a couple in the past year, can’t recall which), he plays 4x Cryptic and specifically names it as an all-star, a pseudo-Warp for T4 much like our other, cheaper options can be in the earlier turns of the game. I’m about halfway through Jim Davis’ Turns stream, and he speaks at some length about how the deck’s weakest point lies in its ability to bridge the gap between resolving your first mine effect and taking your first extra turn. That said, he wasn’t very high on Cryptic specifically, but to me it fits that bill for the crucial T4 better than anything.
That said, I have played UW Control extensively in the past, and currently spend most of my MtG time grinding out advantage with Abzan, so given my background it’s very possible that I’m overrating the value and card parity afforded by Cryptic—I’m definitely not used to playing a deck full of card disadvantage spells like Gigadrowse and Exhaustion. Time will tell.
Thing in the sideboard does appear to be a strong option, but I worry about slots. Would you replace Chalice or Seas with 3x Thing? If not, where else would you find room?
Your list looks sweet! Congrats on the 3-0.
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It's a card that really smooths out our bad matchups (Burn, Mardu, etc..) and with x=1 it only hurts our serum visions which decrease in value as the game goes on anyhow..
As for Thing in the Ice, I think it is extremely powerful. I don't personally run it anymore because I am on the Terminus/Timely Reinforcements but I think that is a card that needs some tweaks mainboard to be a good sideboard option.. I know other people have mentioned running it without cantrips but from playing with them, they are definitely best with Opt since it allows for instant speed flipping and bouncing their permanents. (As well as serum visions of course).
So i've been playing the deck for a while now, and I love brewing and thinking of ways to make the deck even crazier. So lately I've been thinking.. what if we stole the idea of cost reducers from Storm and ran Baral (and possibly go UR for Goblin Electromancer).. My idea is that you run more counter magic (possibly negate/mana leak mainboard and take advantage of Baral's looting..
Any ideas? Seems like a fun diversion from the main build of the deck
Yeah. It seems to be that with Thing you either want to design the deck with it in mind (the super-disruptive build mentioned upthread that allows Thing to “flip at its own pace”), or you want to include cards like Opt, which synergize extremely well with Thing while being viable or near-viable choices in their own right.
Thing hasn’t done a whole lot for me so far (I’ve been testing against friends with a 17-card sideboard—the decklist I posted previously + 2 Thing), but then again I haven’t faced a ton of linear aggro, so for me the jury is still out on the question of what blend of Thing/Snag/Truth is best for mono-blue. Whiplash Trap also caught my attention. It’s spicy and has a high ceiling, but in the end is probably a little too cute.
In testing I haven’t lost a series yet, taking down Merfolk (twice), Dragon Skred, Mardu Pyromancer, and Grixis Shadow. Haven’t been punished yet for 4x Cryptic, and so far they seem to be a real lynchpin in my progressions. I feel quite confident in this build for the moment, with the aforementioned caveat of not being 100% sure that I’m optimized against linear aggro.
By all means give Baral a shot in testing, but my first impression of the idea is that it’s kind of a long shot. The sad truth is that draw-go control that leans heavily on countermagic isn’t very good in Modern. In fact, successful control decks in this format do basically everything but play draw-go with counters: traditional UWC which taps out for haymakers, UW Miracles, UR Breach/Moon variants, and of course Jeskai, which is basically removal.dec salted with a little countermagic. I think in the context of the Turns shell that the prospect of swapping Gigadrowse, Exhaustion, and even Boomerang for counters sounds like a downgrade. Baral also raises the specters of turning on the opponent’s removal, warping the deck construction around a fragile dude (do you cut the land count to take advantage of his cost reduction? If not, isn’t that often wasted value?), running afoul of the legendary rule, etc.
I’m still brand new to the archetype, so take this response for what it’s worth, but those are my initial reactions. Still, he’s worth a shot if you’re looking to change it up, and if you give him a run then let us know how it goes!
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3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (32)
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Gigadrowse
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Opt
4 Serum Visions
4 Remand
2 Day's Undoing
4 Exhaustion
1 Cryptic Command
4 Time Warp
1 Temporal Trespass
1 Howling Mine
Enchantments (3)
3 Dictate of Kruphix
Lands (21)
10 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Mountain
1 Burst Lightning
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
2 Boomerang
1 Disrupting Shoal
3 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Logic Knot
4 Thing in the Ice
Source:https://mtgdecks.net/Modern/lejay-5-0-decklist-by-lejay-755987
My take on it is that pros can just do stuff like that while we mere mortals cannot.
Like the deck runs only 4 time warp effects.. and ancestral vision but no as foretold? MY GOD.. *gasps*
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
It would most likely involve cutting down on exhaustions and our card draw effects turning it more into a UW control...
Not sure that is more efficient.. but it would be sweet if someone brewed up a successful list!
Gotta work on that. I'm still brewing a weird miracles deck, but that one's next!
On the Thing in the Ice topic, if anyone's interested here's my good old Titi turbo turns list, still working fairly well:
2x Forest
4x Hinterland Harbor
6x Island
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Yavimaya Coast
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Thing in the Ice
4x Dictate of Kruphix
3x Explore
4x Search for Tomorrow
3x Serum Visions
4x Temporal Mastery
4x Time Warp
1x Walk the Aeons
2x Gigadrowse
3x Remand
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Dispel
1x Disrupting Shoal
1x Engulf the Shore
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Laboratory Maniac
2x Pithing Needle
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Snapback
1x Spell Pierce
2x Sun Droplet
Modern Storm
Modern Taking Turns
EDH Jhoira of the Ghitu
Well, the emergence of the Bridgevine deck has clarified things for me. Echoing Truth really does seem to be the right call in terms of what mono-blue can do to survive the waves of early go-wide aggro. Thanks to those who gave me this advice.
Speaking of Bridgevine, what are people’s preferences in this deck for graveyard hate? I have seen Relic of Progenitus, Grafdigger’s Cage, and Surgical Extraction in various sideboards, not to mention Rest in Peace for those splashing white.
It seems like there’s no clear best option for a Turns player; it also seems as though most people are willing to dedicate minimal slots to graveyard decks, preferring to offer them a speed bump while executing our own plan proactively (I like this approach). Still, these slots matter—what has and has not worked for you?
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