Hello, Reilly here. I am very happy with the list as it currently is and would not change a thing at the moment. One last minute change that I made before the tournament was to add a second noxious instead of a 4th serum visions. Both are comparable, but Noxious is better in a more hostile meta and serum is better in a faster, more combo based meta. Even though the meta ended up being faster and more combo based I decided to play it safe with an extra noxious. Both are fine and they play similar roles. I would add a 4th serum before a 4th repeal, however.
In addition, we want to be comboing off as fast as possible game one so I honestly believe that we should be on 20 equipment and no less, especially in the current meta. We can board down to 16-18 depending on the matchup but I think that game one we want a large number of equipment. I personally would make other cuts before eating away at our equipment count. I think it's a mistake to go to 19 equipment to add another serum visions, but you could test it.
As far as the bird goes, I don't think it belongs in the deck at a competitive level. It has words on it that make it seem like it was designed for the deck but the deck already has all of the pieces that it needs. After testing both, I think Erayo and the bird are similar in that they synergize with the deck without actually adding anything to the deck's win percentage. If you're looking for another creature I would play Sai.
EDIT: Notably, the best 9th engine card I've tested was Jeskai Ascendancy (By far) and then Riddlesmith. I would play either of those before Bird, Sai, or Mentor. However, as you can see from my list, I choose not to play a 9th engine at the moment.
Congrats on the finish! I like the 2nd NR over SV 4 and the 4th SV over the next Repeal. I actually misread the list and thought you had 24 equipment, not 24 total artifacts, which was why I wanted to trim equipment. Agree that 20 is correct and I too wouldn't go lower.
How did Claim work throughout the day? How did it affect the manabase? Also, more generally, what were your matchups?
Claim was great, I definitely prefer it to paradoxical now. I was worried that surgicals would be prevalent this weekend, making it worse, but I didn't end up seeing any. If people often bring it in against us in the future we might ant to look into changing up that slot.
Godless Shrine is definitely an awkward draw if you have no other blue sources, and it adds one more land in the deck that does not produce blue (which isn't great). It was relevant one game, but I ended up winning anyway. I would say that it's worth taking the hit in the manabase to have access to Claim. I'm glad I have shrine in the main also, rather than in the board like I used to. Freeing up a spot for the second Forgetender was important. Also, claim and forge tender work great together.
As a note, try to hide your godless shrine G1 if you plan on bringing in claims in games 2 and 3.
Here are my matchups:
Round one: Affinity
Round two: Bant Spirits
Round three: Hardened Scales Affinity
Round four: UR Thing in the Ice... control? (Loss)
Round five: Eldrazi Tron
Round six: GW Company/Devoted Druid
Round seven: UR Storm
Round Eight: BG Infect
Round Nine: UW Control (ID)
My loss in the swiss was round 4 to UR thing in the ice.
Quarter Finals: UW Control
Semi Finals: Burn
Finals: UW Control
As you can see, the only "bad" matchups were rounds 4 and in the semi finals, so I was pretty fortunate in that aspect. Eldrazi Tron used to be a bad matchup but 3 repeals mainboard help out a lot. I guess you could still call in unfavorable though, but he did not have chalice game one even though he knew what I was on. I almost won round 4, as I was able to create 3 turns of openings but I fizzled every time. I might have overboarded, as the reason I lost was always not having enough equipment.I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board on what to bring in there, or at least limit myself in my sideboarding options.
Claim was great, I definitely prefer it to paradoxical now. I was worried that surgicals would be prevalent this weekend, making it worse, but I didn't end up seeing any. If people often bring it in against us in the future we might ant to look into changing up that slot.
Godless Shrine is definitely an awkward draw if you have no other blue sources, and it adds one more land in the deck that does not produce blue (which isn't great). It was relevant one game, but I ended up winning anyway. I would say that it's worth taking the hit in the manabase to have access to Claim. I'm glad I have shrine in the main also, rather than in the board like I used to. Freeing up a spot for the second Forgetender was important. Also, claim and forge tender work great together.
As a note, try to hide your godless shrine G1 if you plan on bringing in claims in games 2 and 3.
Here are my matchups:
Round one: Affinity
Round two: Bant Spirits
Round three: Hardened Scales Affinity
Round four: UR Thing in the Ice... control? (Loss)
Round five: Eldrazi Tron
Round six: GW Company/Devoted Druid
Round seven: UR Storm
Round Eight: BG Infect
Round Nine: UW Control (ID)
My loss in the swiss was round 4 to UR thing in the ice.
Quarter Finals: UW Control
Semi Finals: Burn
Finals: UW Control
As you can see, the only "bad" matchups were rounds 4 and in the semi finals, so I was pretty fortunate in that aspect. Eldrazi Tron used to be a bad matchup but 3 repeals mainboard help out a lot. I guess you could still call in unfavorable though, but he did not have chalice game one even though he knew what I was on. I almost won round 4, as I was able to create 3 turns of openings but I fizzled every time. I might have overboarded, as the reason I lost was always not having enough equipment.I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board on what to bring in there, or at least limit myself in my sideboarding options.
Wonderful finish! Many congrats, and well done. Also, thank you for the mini report. I was pretty curious of your matchups, since I've found I have an exceptionally hard time with Jund, GDS, and Izzet Phoenix (your one loss). It's great you managed to avoid them for the most part. You have convinced me on Serum Visions. I was running 1/4/2 Noxious/Repeal/Hurkyl's Recall, but will switch to 1/3/2/1 Noxious/SV/Repeal/Recall. I love the recall MD, and don't think I could remove it, as it's won me many games.
I am working on getting Magic Online Replay Tool working, and will hopefully be posting my stats soon. I think I have ~200 games on MTGO (not matches), so I'm excited to see my win% by turn and matchup.
Thank you! Jund can be tough, but IMO it's the easiest of the matchups that you named. They tap out far more often than GDS and Izzet decks (idk about phoenix, but any UR tempo/control deck in general). I used to run a recall but I ended up cutting it when i discovered how good repeal is. It definitely can be handy in the right meta (defensively) as well.
I think it would be awesome to see others play the deck, I feel like I've talked all my friends' ears off about it and I have no person that I know that also plays the deck, so any collaboration would be awesome.
GDS is just about the worst possible matchup, but it's still winnable. I would just play like they don't have it all the time, and if they ended up having it then you just lose. No hard feelings, move on. If you really want to beat it you can board into more grapeshots and try to cheese them when they make a really big death's shadow.
Thank you! Jund can be tough, but IMO it's the easiest of the matchups that you named. They tap out far more often than GDS and Izzet decks (idk about phoenix, but any UR tempo/control deck in general). I used to run a recall but I ended up cutting it when i discovered how good repeal is. It definitely can be handy in the right meta (defensively) as well.
I think it would be awesome to see others play the deck, I feel like I've talked all my friends' ears off about it and I have no person that I know that also plays the deck, so any collaboration would be awesome.
I agree that Jund is def the easiest out of those matchups, for the reasons you mentioned. I'm able to sneak a match from Jund here and there, but the izzet deck (counters + removal + clock) is tough, and GDS (izzet plus discard) is attrocious. I've been thinking about recording a full competitive league on MTGO, and talking through my thought process. If I can find the time this weekend, I'll do it.
GDS is just about the worst possible matchup, but it's still winnable. I would just play like they don't have it all the time, and if they ended up having it then you just lose. No hard feelings, move on. If you really want to beat it you can board into more grapeshots and try to cheese them when they make a really big death's shadow.
I think I am 1-9 on MODO vs GDS, it's actually that bad. They so frequently have more discard/removal/counters that I have paladin/silence/claim. I actually wish I could face them more though, so I could learn how to best maximize my chances. Since I'm playing this at GP Portland in a few weeks, I'd like to have a better strategy than "hope I don't get matched up," or "pray for two bonkers hands in a row." I only get two loses to make day 2. I've added 3 Geist of Saint Traft to hopefully improve those removal-heavy matchups. I'll see how it works out. I was trying a really experimental SB of 3 Geist 3 Ka, Khemba Reagent, 3 Monestary Mentor, and 3 Inquisition of Kozilek. Side out all flex spots and 5 cheerios. I actually 5-0'd a league with it yesterday, but didn't face any midrange lol. But I'm starting to think that simple is better, and I might just have to pray to not face GDS.
Greetings, all! I just picked up Cheeri0s in paper and will be taking it to its first FNM this Friday. For now I'm running a wacky build with 4 Rugged Prairie and 4 SSG to maximize the tomfoolery, but this https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-11-18-cheeri0s/ is the list I'm building towards based on what I've seen in this thread. Any suggestions?
Also, I'm curious as to whether we ever, under any circumstances, will keep a hand of 5-7 cards with no creatures in it? Seems impossible to win without a creature in your opening hand unless you get insanely lucky.
There's not really a set list, but the list that you posted looks like a good starting point. There's probably 20-25 sideboard cards that you want access to so choosing the actual 15 that you use is tough and will come with experience.
I would keep almost no 7's without a creature. The exception would be if my hand is really good with a serum visions, especially on the draw. Otherwise, mull to a creature or a good hand with a serum visions. Drawing a creature off the top isn't insanely lucky, it happens all the time. you have decent draw spells and scry with repeal and serum visions so digging to your creatures is simply how you live out most of your games.
It came from necessity and ended up being really good. When humans god big, the deck needed to add one peice of interaction so that they wouldn't just win with meddling mage on grapeshot. For that reason, repeal was added. Eventually, it just became obvious that the card was great in the deck regardless. For a while, the deck wanted a 5th retract and a lot of people played hurkyl's. Many have moved away from this in favor of multiple repeals because they act as mini retracts but they also add some interaction to the deck. If you have a creature out, it acts as a draw 2, which is always great. If you have multiple, obviously you draw more. It also cycles for free with a mox, and it deals with problematic game one permanents like chalice, eidolon, leyline, meddling mage, and Thalia. Honestly it's an all star and I would not play less than three at the moment.
So your last point dovetails nicely with another thing I'm having a little trouble with. Saying Repeal is a nice answer to Leyline implies that Cheeri0s can handle waiting until turn 6 to combo off. I think I'm a little stuck in the mindset that if we don't combo off by turn 4 at the latest then our winrate will tank. I'm sure that feeling will go away once I start actually playing the deck, but is there any advice you'd give me so I can be more calm going into tomorrow?
Good questions, the deck runs Mox which adds free mana. If you're comboing off you're almost certainly able to draw your whole deck. If they have leyline, you need access to repeal for 5 and grapeshot for 2 in a single turn, not including free retracts which requires 7 total mana. 4 mox and 2 noxious revival (on mox) makes 6 free mana, so on turn 3 you can play a creature and repeal for 5 and grapeshot (3 lands + 6 mox mana = 9 mana), which is exactly enough to kill. If you're untapping with a creature then you have more than enough.
Honestly though... game one leyline almost never happens.
The deck is more resilient than you might think, you can play past turn 4 and still win, especially if they're using their mana to interupt and not apply pressure. The deck is definitely different to play than many others, so really just jam games until you get the hang of it, then I'd worry about reading into the more intricate plays.
Thanks for the help! Man, I love MTGS forums. Unfortunately I don't own a PC and therefore can't play MODO to learn the deck. I get FNM once a week and goldfishing on TappedOut and that's it, so you guys are a great resource. Looking forward to contributing to driving this archetype forward.
Also, I'm curious as to whether we ever, under any circumstances, will keep a hand of 5-7 cards with no creatures in it? Seems impossible to win without a creature in your opening hand unless you get insanely lucky.
The point I'm making isn't about the second Grapeshot, it's about the seven card raw dog hand of 3 Equip, Mox Opal, 2 Retract and a Grapeshot representing a clean 15 damage with any other mana source.
What if you're g1 against an unknown opponent? Do you think we can stall long enough to realistically finish them off if we're only packing 1 Grapeshot? Do we hold out for a Noxious?
What if you're g1 against an unknown opponent? Do you think we can stall long enough to realistically finish them off if we're only packing 1 Grapeshot? Do we hold out for a Noxious?
I have mulled to 4 against an unknown opponent to get a creature and won several times, but never on a mull to 3. I have also conceded games before they started when I can't hit a creature. I used to love Serum Powder for this purpose but we just can afford a playset of slots for it now that Sram is here..
It came from necessity and ended up being really good. When humans god big, the deck needed to add one peice of interaction so that they wouldn't just win with meddling mage on grapeshot. For that reason, repeal was added. Eventually, it just became obvious that the card was great in the deck regardless. For a while, the deck wanted a 5th retract and a lot of people played hurkyl's. Many have moved away from this in favor of multiple repeals because they act as mini retracts but they also add some interaction to the deck. If you have a creature out, it acts as a draw 2, which is always great. If you have multiple, obviously you draw more. It also cycles for free with a mox, and it deals with problematic game one permanents like chalice, eidolon, leyline, meddling mage, and Thalia. Honestly it's an all star and I would not play less than three at the moment.
Not trying to be argumentative, but Repeal has been in this deck for ages. Before Sram was printed, long before Humans was a powerful deck, Repeal was used to 1) Deal with a Chalice on zero, 2) Bounce a Mox Opal (essentially for free) to get a card and a storm count during the combo & 3) Get a Prowess trigger on Monastery Mentor, who used to see a lot of play. It's an amazingly versatile card in this deck.
Yeah you're right, it definitely was in some lists previously. I guess I was talking about my personal experience, which is an inaccurate representation of the community. My bad. I wasn't running it since I started playing the deck (Sram's Printing) until humans blew up. If you look at successful lists since Sram's printing I think you'll find that it was rare between Sram's printing and when Humans became a deck.
I really liked your post about the two Nox's acting as Opals 5 & 6 when Repealing a Leyline is on order. That line of reasoning has affected my sideboarding choices big time! I'm really glad to see you having big tournament success with the deck!!
Well I had a good run with Artificer's Assistant, but after going 0-3 drop Tuesday night, I'm going back to Serum Visions. AA w/ Sigil can provide evasive damage that I will miss, but ultimately I think it's just a bit too much of a win more card.
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Congrats on the finish! I like the 2nd NR over SV 4 and the 4th SV over the next Repeal. I actually misread the list and thought you had 24 equipment, not 24 total artifacts, which was why I wanted to trim equipment. Agree that 20 is correct and I too wouldn't go lower.
How did Claim work throughout the day? How did it affect the manabase? Also, more generally, what were your matchups?
Godless Shrine is definitely an awkward draw if you have no other blue sources, and it adds one more land in the deck that does not produce blue (which isn't great). It was relevant one game, but I ended up winning anyway. I would say that it's worth taking the hit in the manabase to have access to Claim. I'm glad I have shrine in the main also, rather than in the board like I used to. Freeing up a spot for the second Forgetender was important. Also, claim and forge tender work great together.
As a note, try to hide your godless shrine G1 if you plan on bringing in claims in games 2 and 3.
Here are my matchups:
Round one: Affinity
Round two: Bant Spirits
Round three: Hardened Scales Affinity
Round four: UR Thing in the Ice... control? (Loss)
Round five: Eldrazi Tron
Round six: GW Company/Devoted Druid
Round seven: UR Storm
Round Eight: BG Infect
Round Nine: UW Control (ID)
My loss in the swiss was round 4 to UR thing in the ice.
Quarter Finals: UW Control
Semi Finals: Burn
Finals: UW Control
As you can see, the only "bad" matchups were rounds 4 and in the semi finals, so I was pretty fortunate in that aspect. Eldrazi Tron used to be a bad matchup but 3 repeals mainboard help out a lot. I guess you could still call in unfavorable though, but he did not have chalice game one even though he knew what I was on. I almost won round 4, as I was able to create 3 turns of openings but I fizzled every time. I might have overboarded, as the reason I lost was always not having enough equipment.I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board on what to bring in there, or at least limit myself in my sideboarding options.
Wonderful finish! Many congrats, and well done. Also, thank you for the mini report. I was pretty curious of your matchups, since I've found I have an exceptionally hard time with Jund, GDS, and Izzet Phoenix (your one loss). It's great you managed to avoid them for the most part. You have convinced me on Serum Visions. I was running 1/4/2 Noxious/Repeal/Hurkyl's Recall, but will switch to 1/3/2/1 Noxious/SV/Repeal/Recall. I love the recall MD, and don't think I could remove it, as it's won me many games.
I am working on getting Magic Online Replay Tool working, and will hopefully be posting my stats soon. I think I have ~200 games on MTGO (not matches), so I'm excited to see my win% by turn and matchup.
I think it would be awesome to see others play the deck, I feel like I've talked all my friends' ears off about it and I have no person that I know that also plays the deck, so any collaboration would be awesome.
I agree that Jund is def the easiest out of those matchups, for the reasons you mentioned. I'm able to sneak a match from Jund here and there, but the izzet deck (counters + removal + clock) is tough, and GDS (izzet plus discard) is attrocious. I've been thinking about recording a full competitive league on MTGO, and talking through my thought process. If I can find the time this weekend, I'll do it.
I think I am 1-9 on MODO vs GDS, it's actually that bad. They so frequently have more discard/removal/counters that I have paladin/silence/claim. I actually wish I could face them more though, so I could learn how to best maximize my chances. Since I'm playing this at GP Portland in a few weeks, I'd like to have a better strategy than "hope I don't get matched up," or "pray for two bonkers hands in a row." I only get two loses to make day 2. I've added 3 Geist of Saint Traft to hopefully improve those removal-heavy matchups. I'll see how it works out. I was trying a really experimental SB of 3 Geist 3 Ka, Khemba Reagent, 3 Monestary Mentor, and 3 Inquisition of Kozilek. Side out all flex spots and 5 cheerios. I actually 5-0'd a league with it yesterday, but didn't face any midrange lol. But I'm starting to think that simple is better, and I might just have to pray to not face GDS.
Also, I'm curious as to whether we ever, under any circumstances, will keep a hand of 5-7 cards with no creatures in it? Seems impossible to win without a creature in your opening hand unless you get insanely lucky.
I would keep almost no 7's without a creature. The exception would be if my hand is really good with a serum visions, especially on the draw. Otherwise, mull to a creature or a good hand with a serum visions. Drawing a creature off the top isn't insanely lucky, it happens all the time. you have decent draw spells and scry with repeal and serum visions so digging to your creatures is simply how you live out most of your games.
Honestly though... game one leyline almost never happens.
The deck is more resilient than you might think, you can play past turn 4 and still win, especially if they're using their mana to interupt and not apply pressure. The deck is definitely different to play than many others, so really just jam games until you get the hang of it, then I'd worry about reading into the more intricate plays.
The point I'm making isn't about the second Grapeshot, it's about the seven card raw dog hand of 3 Equip, Mox Opal, 2 Retract and a Grapeshot representing a clean 15 damage with any other mana source.
What if you're g1 against an unknown opponent? Do you think we can stall long enough to realistically finish them off if we're only packing 1 Grapeshot? Do we hold out for a Noxious?
Yeah you're right, it definitely was in some lists previously. I guess I was talking about my personal experience, which is an inaccurate representation of the community. My bad. I wasn't running it since I started playing the deck (Sram's Printing) until humans blew up. If you look at successful lists since Sram's printing I think you'll find that it was rare between Sram's printing and when Humans became a deck.