18+4 is pretty good, as that is basically what the original friggord list ran. (4 delta/4 strand/4 grave/1 tomb/islands + 4 chrome mox).
As for the "perfect draws" comment, my SSG list has actually won @ a 2% higher clip across 100 sample games vs the traditional list. Remember, I cut some of the marginal 57-60th cards in the deck as I still run 18 lands. Maybe goldfish my version across 10 2 of 3 sets before trashing it.
I wouldn't say FLCLs list is trash by any stretch. My first night of testing, I literally steam rolled everyone I played against.
You do have to be honest though, and realize variance can, and will, bite you in the butt every now and again.
I'm gonna try to move some numbers around, just for my own preference, and to test out some different things, and get a feel for the options. I spent a long time playing all sorts of VengeVine lists, and I actually played QuadLazer Dredge in legacy for a while also, so I really love the direction this archetype is taking in Modern. Variance or not, the deck is a blast to play, and I wanna keep grinding it out for a while.
Latest testing after UR Storm yesterday
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2-1 UR Delver |
2-0 Grixis Control |
0-2 Spellweaver Gifts| (Dredged almost entire deck and saw no Creatures)
---------------------| (Game 2 he has Leyline/Void)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1-2 Merfolk | (Mulled hard in game 1 and 3/ Opponent drew insane hands)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not counting matches that players quit out of, or booted me, im 7-5 so far in overall matches. Not bad, but could/should be better. In 90% of the games I lost though, the deck lost to itself, rather than the opponent, so that's worth noting I think.
*sidenote* Davius, I had been jamming Amulet for a while post ban, but it got to be kind of frustrating. The format is just soo fast right now. IMO banning Summer Bloom was a major mistake. Burn, Infect, Affinity, are all tier, and way faster than Amulet, even with Bloom.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
I think the key to playing an all-in combo list like mine is mulligan strategy. This deck might very well justify being on the draw to improve your chances, both with T1 hands and the mulligan scry.
If I wanted to start playing dredge alot, is there a list of cards I should stock up on? Not just a deck list, but like things I ought to have regardless even if its not "great right now" like Ray of Revelation
Maybe pick up playsets of all of the commonly played enablers (goblin lore, tormenting voice, faithless looting, burning inquiry, shriekhorn) - they're very cheap $-wise across the board, and you can experiment with different configurations and find what works best for you. Also 1-of's like Rally the Peasants, Darkblast, Memory's Journey are great to have on hand for when you're tuning your deck
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
Since I've seen this article on Nexus about dredge, my interest in modern had returned.
I've been testing it on proxies while I'm gathering all the cards and the deck is pretty sweet. One new card from EMN that has been showing to be pretty good is Haunted Dead, I feel it plays better than the Stitchwing Skaab. It is not as aggressive, but it's more on-color and the spirit comes ETB untaped, wich can be a good flash blocker.
I'm also testing a single Geier Reach Sanitarium, with a troll on the grave it reads for you 2, T: mills 6. That while keeping the troll on the grave (you just discard it). Until now I didn't have issues with it other than very infrequently having to mulligan a one land hand with it as the single land, that could be otherwise keepable if it was the Blood Crypt I replaced it with.
Interesting list - I thought bridge combo had major consistency issues, but if it's good enough to win this event I'll have to revisit it
I think that the bridge, if used, shouldn't be treated as a combo engine, but as a value engine.
What I like most from this version is the greater gargadon as a way to deal with anger of the gods.
Although I don't like low land count and not using loam, it makes conflagrate and bloodghast worse. Conflagrate has been shown to be a huge player for me.
I was also under the impression that the bridge+gargadon list was somewhat suboptimal due to the consistency/"dead card anywhere else other than in your hand" issues. Either way, I'm stoked dredge won the classic and I'll probably try the list for fun anyway. I guess the cat's out of the bag on dredge's secret power level in modern.
I was also under the impression that the bridge+gargadon list was somewhat suboptimal due to the consistency/"dead card anywhere else other than in your hand" issues. Either way, I'm stoked dredge won the classic and I'll probably try the list for fun anyway. I guess the cat's out of the bag on dredge's secret power level in modern.
Side note: big price spike on conflagrate?
I'm intrigued by the Gargadon list because I love Bridge, so I suppose I will test that list for a bit.
I did notice the price spoke on Conflagrate, I picked up my first two copies for .25c each, and when I went to buy my third I ended up shelling out $1.75. Glad I didn't pay the $3-4 price tag.
I was also under the impression that the bridge+gargadon list was somewhat suboptimal due to the consistency/"dead card anywhere else other than in your hand" issues. Either way, I'm stoked dredge won the classic and I'll probably try the list for fun anyway. I guess the cat's out of the bag on dredge's secret power level in modern.
Side note: big price spike on conflagrate?
I'm intrigued by the Gargadon list because I love Bridge, so I suppose I will test that list for a bit.
I did notice the price spoke on Conflagrate, I picked up my first two copies for .25c each, and when I went to buy my third I ended up shelling out $1.75. Glad I didn't pay the $3-4 price tag.
I got all 3 of mine for super cheap too. Funny that I had never heard of that card before being active in this thread and now it's a $4 common ha.
I'm running a similar build and found that using bridge combo doesn't fill your hand as much as the conflag version so conflag doesn't pack as much of a punch,usually have only one to three cards in hand and generally one is a land that you don't want to discard.
I also don't use loam and just dredge salvage back. I am also running two rallies main.
It's not as fast but I like it better when sideboarding, it runs better than the faster version after SB.
I'm still fiddlin with a single spledid reclamation and mystic retrieval atm.Its won me a few games after getting my creatures wiped hardcasting troll with so many creatures in the yard.
i guess i might have to actually buy the bridges and the gargadon after all...
In regards to that list. I don´t think it´s that bad actually. A hand with gargadon and shreikhorn seems really good right? So if you ever dredge up a thug, you can cast it and sac it on turn 2, and hopefully have a bridge in the graveyard? That plan seems like it plays around grafdiggers cage really good.
As most of you guys have said though, 18 lands no loam is probably insanely tough.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
It's not.Your not trying to discard all the time for conflag,you have dakmor for bloodghast which brings back amalgam and feeds gargadon which if you have a few bridges in GY dumps tokens out for rally.You don't have more than a few cards in hand at a time,sometimes none. I've been off loam for awhile as I felt it wasn't necessary. I don't miss it either.
It's not a all in build like the conflag version and runs slower,but it isn't slowed down after SB as bad I feel.
that version looks a LOT more all in than conflagrate version. Without loam you´ll almost never have the option to cast trolls against a resolved cage.
Still, i think the bridge version should be considered regardless. I think it has the addition that most other bridge-gargadon decks didn´t, which is another 1 mana enabler in shriekhorn. Sideboarding should be really tough though
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
i tried a variation of the decklist after seeing it posted here. The way he does it, is by having a suspended gargadon and a salvage. Once you´ve dredged it, you can sac anything you want to trigger bridges, and then sac the salvage to dredge it on the following turn, so as long as you have a gargadon, you´ll be able to landfall. 18 lands looks kind of like too little. I tried 19 and it felt fine. Mainly because of the 12 1 mana enablers.
I feel like there should be an interation with golgari thug (other than the narcomeba trick) to warrant it´s addition in the deck. I guess you can sac 1 to the gargadon to put another one on top, draw, suspend and sac all the shriekhorns and lands for an all in? Otherwise, stinkweed imp feels superior, cause it´s actually a good creature
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
I just saw it on there, and the 4 Haunted Dead seems like a real oddball. Especially over draw sources 9-12, though clearly they worked well enough.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I edit after I post... just a heads up.
Currently Running Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
As for the "perfect draws" comment, my SSG list has actually won @ a 2% higher clip across 100 sample games vs the traditional list. Remember, I cut some of the marginal 57-60th cards in the deck as I still run 18 lands. Maybe goldfish my version across 10 2 of 3 sets before trashing it.
You do have to be honest though, and realize variance can, and will, bite you in the butt every now and again.
I'm gonna try to move some numbers around, just for my own preference, and to test out some different things, and get a feel for the options. I spent a long time playing all sorts of VengeVine lists, and I actually played QuadLazer Dredge in legacy for a while also, so I really love the direction this archetype is taking in Modern. Variance or not, the deck is a blast to play, and I wanna keep grinding it out for a while.
Latest testing after UR Storm yesterday
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2-1 UR Delver |
2-0 Grixis Control |
0-2 Spellweaver Gifts| (Dredged almost entire deck and saw no Creatures)
---------------------| (Game 2 he has Leyline/Void)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1-2 Merfolk | (Mulled hard in game 1 and 3/ Opponent drew insane hands)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not counting matches that players quit out of, or booted me, im 7-5 so far in overall matches. Not bad, but could/should be better. In 90% of the games I lost though, the deck lost to itself, rather than the opponent, so that's worth noting I think.
*sidenote* Davius, I had been jamming Amulet for a while post ban, but it got to be kind of frustrating. The format is just soo fast right now. IMO banning Summer Bloom was a major mistake. Burn, Infect, Affinity, are all tier, and way faster than Amulet, even with Bloom.
1. Bloodghast
2. Golgari Grave-Troll
3. Life From the Loam
4. Conflagrate
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
Since I've seen this article on Nexus about dredge, my interest in modern had returned.
I've been testing it on proxies while I'm gathering all the cards and the deck is pretty sweet. One new card from EMN that has been showing to be pretty good is Haunted Dead, I feel it plays better than the Stitchwing Skaab. It is not as aggressive, but it's more on-color and the spirit comes ETB untaped, wich can be a good flash blocker.
I'm also testing a single Geier Reach Sanitarium, with a troll on the grave it reads for you 2, T: mills 6. That while keeping the troll on the grave (you just discard it). Until now I didn't have issues with it other than very infrequently having to mulligan a one land hand with it as the single land, that could be otherwise keepable if it was the Blood Crypt I replaced it with.
Interesting list - I thought bridge combo had major consistency issues, but if it's good enough to win this event I'll have to revisit it
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
What I like most from this version is the greater gargadon as a way to deal with anger of the gods.
Although I don't like low land count and not using loam, it makes conflagrate and bloodghast worse. Conflagrate has been shown to be a huge player for me.
Side note: big price spike on conflagrate?
I'm intrigued by the Gargadon list because I love Bridge, so I suppose I will test that list for a bit.
I did notice the price spoke on Conflagrate, I picked up my first two copies for .25c each, and when I went to buy my third I ended up shelling out $1.75. Glad I didn't pay the $3-4 price tag.
UR Storm
RBG Dredge
EDH:
UR Mizzix
GB Gitrog
WB Daxos
I got all 3 of mine for super cheap too. Funny that I had never heard of that card before being active in this thread and now it's a $4 common ha.
I also don't use loam and just dredge salvage back. I am also running two rallies main.
It's not as fast but I like it better when sideboarding, it runs better than the faster version after SB.
I'm still fiddlin with a single spledid reclamation and mystic retrieval atm.Its won me a few games after getting my creatures wiped hardcasting troll with so many creatures in the yard.
In regards to that list. I don´t think it´s that bad actually. A hand with gargadon and shreikhorn seems really good right? So if you ever dredge up a thug, you can cast it and sac it on turn 2, and hopefully have a bridge in the graveyard? That plan seems like it plays around grafdiggers cage really good.
As most of you guys have said though, 18 lands no loam is probably insanely tough.
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
It's not a all in build like the conflag version and runs slower,but it isn't slowed down after SB as bad I feel.
Still, i think the bridge version should be considered regardless. I think it has the addition that most other bridge-gargadon decks didn´t, which is another 1 mana enabler in shriekhorn. Sideboarding should be really tough though
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
I feel like there should be an interation with golgari thug (other than the narcomeba trick) to warrant it´s addition in the deck. I guess you can sac 1 to the gargadon to put another one on top, draw, suspend and sac all the shriekhorns and lands for an all in? Otherwise, stinkweed imp feels superior, cause it´s actually a good creature
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13167&d=277114&f=MO
I just saw it on there, and the 4 Haunted Dead seems like a real oddball. Especially over draw sources 9-12, though clearly they worked well enough.
Currently Running
Legacy: Burn; Various Stompy's; Food Chain Goblins; FC Elves
Standard: Junk Super Friends, Elf-Wave
Elder Dragon Highlander: Animar, Skithiryx, Bosh, Konda, Wort, Ezuri, Patron of the Moon