Gargadon and bridge are in this primer and that's the version I have,thug brings it in if its dredged.
Im trying some of the new cards and seeing what others think about it.
FLCL your running the hyper dredge version which until recently was it's own thread which has now been moved into this thread which covers far more than just hyper dredge.
Dredge is a value deck. It is consistent within x amount of turns where x is relevant to the amount of enablers/dredgers hit. Simian spirit guide is a terrible inclusion, which barely does anything proactive to the gameplan. Run wraiths/probes if you want more speed.
Haunted dead is a decent 1 of, but I've personally gone away from the rally plan, as it gives an unnecessary target for counterspells.
Burning inquiry is a no go for me, it's just so inconsistent and you just cannot cast it on t1, if you discard your lands it sets you back 3 or so turns. It is used to accelerate which is just unneeded. Tormenting voice, faithless looting, and neonate are still the best consistent enablers.
19-21 lands feels right. 3 lands in the opener is a great feeling with that amount of land in the deck.
Shriekhorn Ive seen a ton of lists play, I have not tested it but it seems very lax in explosiveness and towards our gameplan, but it can mill 4 cards before we draw on turn 2, so I think it deserves a good look at.
I realized that memory's journey is also used to stop Melira coco decks from comboing you out. It's definitely one of my worst matchups thus far.
Have you actually tested SSG against strong competition? I've done around 50 games in the competitive league/competitive room and my win percentages have gone up slightly with SSG (although I do now have to mull more).
As for inquiry, it is an automatic 4 of. As someone who plays dredge in legacy and vintage, breakthrough effects are inherently broken in a deck like this.
I have to agree with FLCL here burning inquiry is an amazing card, guntius you really are in the wrong thread with some of the discussion topics you bring up the cards you want to play have nothing to do with dredge or are even relevant. A 4 drop that brings all lands out of graveyard? really man that is just stupid 4 mana is the top of our curve we don't need any more. I realize I am commin off as an asshat here but I am sick of you polluting the thread and having to siphon through your posts.
It's still a turn four play with the reclamation.I didn't think it was that bad of an idea that it didn't warrant exploring for a potential explosive finish.Sure it looks like it's more of a turn five finish without haste but hey its a new card and I wanted to try it. If it doesn't work out after the few days I'm going to play around with the idea then fine.
Heres a question on topic,gnaw to the bone,since most games we don't need much life if any would golgari brownscale work better since we can dredge it as/if needed?
Do you guys have to mull alot?I found that with under twenty lands I don't hit the two lands in hand as often a I'd like and mulligan a lot.Would going to two loam for 21 lands hurt more or help more for consistency?
I don't have access to mtgo so I am stuck with paper testing against paper decks at events,mainly FNM and the like and buddies who drop by the store so that limits me to about ten games a day.
And another thing,sorry if you think I was going to far off topic with me testing,i was just looking for feedback on an idea I had for a new card and I know most of you are online and was hoping it would get tested better than what I can offline.With so many heads here I figured if it could be broken it would have been done here by you guys.
If it's any consolation I'll make sure I stay on topic from here on out.
I think reclamation works better in a gifts based scapeshift deck.
t3 gifts for reclamation, shift, bring to light, and noxious revival. Assuming your opponent isnt braindead you noxious the reclamation, t5 bring to light into scapeshift, then reclaim into for 4-5 fetches/mountains for the win.
Ok so here's my starting point, i want to try this list and will make changes after some testing. I'm missing a few importat pieces and will try to get in the next few weeks:
I would honestly drop a Rally and Haunted dead those as 2 of's really aren't great and put in a couple more enablers like shriekhorn or burning inquiry. Personally I wouldn't rn 4 conflags either 2 or 3 seems to be the sweet spot however I mainboard darkblast so perhaps I get away with 2 because of that.
2x conflag, 1x rally, then find room for 4x inquiry.
As for DB, I tend to go between MD 3x loam/0x dblast & 2x loam/1x dblast. The former allows you to hit lands 3-4 consistently, whereas the latter provides good utility.
How much do you guys mulligan on average, and what do you think constitutes a keepable hand? I'm playing a pretty stock version (19 lands, 4 inquiry & 3 Shriekhorn, 2 loam, 3 conflagrate and no rally / rites package) and find that I need to aggressively mulligan down to 4 or 5 to find a hand with the right pieces. Even with 15 one mana enablers, consistency is a major issue for me. Once the deck gets online and hits its second land drop it's very common to kill within two turns though
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Modern
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
Hi guys! I'm having a hard time what card should i use for my 9-12 enabler. So let's talk about the Pro's and Con's of Tormenting Voice vs Burning Inquiry
PS: I'm still using burning inquiry but i'm thinking that i should go for Tormeting Voice
BURNING INQUIRY
PRO'S
- Very Explosive (3 draw = max of 18 dredge)
- Can disrupt your enemy (mostly combo decks)
- Can put 3 dredge card in 1 go (random thou)
- 1 mana enabler!
- Can't be spell snared! (Very popular in modern)
CON'S
- Not consistent (only randomly put dredger in the graveyard)
- Can disrupt you as well (no dredger in the graveyard + land discarded)
- Loxodon Smiter is your bestfriend
- Sometimes can't be played on turn 1
- Only few decks uses this at MTGO
TORMENTING VOICE
PRO'S
- Can put dredge card in your graveyard before even resolving (best)
- Consistent!
- No Loxodon cheat this time
- People use this in MTGO and having a good result
CON'S
- Can be spell snared!
- A 2 mana enabler
- Only draw you 2 cards
- Can surgical your dredge card before the spell is resolving
- Slower than burning Inquiry
----
I think i'm gonna switch to Tormenting Voice for consistency, although i really love Burning Inquiry for the explosiveness.
Any thoughts? (You can also give pro's and con's about these cards and i'm going to edit it)
In last weeks version without both Burning Inquiry and Tormenting Voice became popular. It plays 4 Loams, 2 Lightnig Axe and 3 Shroekhorns main, 0 Rally the Peasants, 0 Darkblasts. Probably lowering spell's cmc with relying more on consistency than speed is a way to go.
There's an article on mtgcanada on a dredge deck that breaks down some of the cards tested.Its a good read and has some results of cards they already tested.
The problem with tormenting voice is that you loose the Bloodghast trigger on turn two.
One of the best plays of burning inquiry is having a dredger in your graveyard on turn 2, playing a fetch land, playing burning inquiry to mill ~25% of you deck and using the fetch land to trigger the bloodghasts. It's basically game over when you can pull that, and it's not that hard to happen because we have neonate, loothing and shriekhorn to enable the dredge on turn two.
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Im trying some of the new cards and seeing what others think about it.
FLCL your running the hyper dredge version which until recently was it's own thread which has now been moved into this thread which covers far more than just hyper dredge.
Haunted dead is a decent 1 of, but I've personally gone away from the rally plan, as it gives an unnecessary target for counterspells.
Burning inquiry is a no go for me, it's just so inconsistent and you just cannot cast it on t1, if you discard your lands it sets you back 3 or so turns. It is used to accelerate which is just unneeded. Tormenting voice, faithless looting, and neonate are still the best consistent enablers.
19-21 lands feels right. 3 lands in the opener is a great feeling with that amount of land in the deck.
Shriekhorn Ive seen a ton of lists play, I have not tested it but it seems very lax in explosiveness and towards our gameplan, but it can mill 4 cards before we draw on turn 2, so I think it deserves a good look at.
I realized that memory's journey is also used to stop Melira coco decks from comboing you out. It's definitely one of my worst matchups thus far.
As for inquiry, it is an automatic 4 of. As someone who plays dredge in legacy and vintage, breakthrough effects are inherently broken in a deck like this.
Have you already posted, or could you post a general sideboard guide? I wanna start playing that list, or something close to it asap.
As for the SBD, I think the best approach is to avoid over diluting your deck as speed often trumps answers.
Heres a question on topic,gnaw to the bone,since most games we don't need much life if any would golgari brownscale work better since we can dredge it as/if needed?
Do you guys have to mull alot?I found that with under twenty lands I don't hit the two lands in hand as often a I'd like and mulligan a lot.Would going to two loam for 21 lands hurt more or help more for consistency?
I don't have access to mtgo so I am stuck with paper testing against paper decks at events,mainly FNM and the like and buddies who drop by the store so that limits me to about ten games a day.
And another thing,sorry if you think I was going to far off topic with me testing,i was just looking for feedback on an idea I had for a new card and I know most of you are online and was hoping it would get tested better than what I can offline.With so many heads here I figured if it could be broken it would have been done here by you guys.
If it's any consolation I'll make sure I stay on topic from here on out.
t3 gifts for reclamation, shift, bring to light, and noxious revival. Assuming your opponent isnt braindead you noxious the reclamation, t5 bring to light into scapeshift, then reclaim into for 4-5 fetches/mountains for the win.
4 conflagrate
2 life from the loam
2 tormenting voice
2 rally the peasants
4 insolent neonate
4 bloodghast
4 narcomoeba
4 prized amalgam
2 haunted dead
4 stinkweed imp
4 golgari grave-troll
4 copperline gorge
4 wooded foothills
2 bloodstained mire
4 mountain
2 blood crypt
2 stomping ground
1 vengeful pharaoh
2 darkblast
2 bojuka bog
2 ground seal
2 gnaw to the bone
2 golgari brownscale
4 natural state
I thrust FLCL's experience with regards to burning inquiry, i will probably try them at some point, but i want to get a feel with this list first.
As for DB, I tend to go between MD 3x loam/0x dblast & 2x loam/1x dblast. The former allows you to hit lands 3-4 consistently, whereas the latter provides good utility.
-Engine/Discard:
4 Faithless looting
4 Insolent neonate
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Drowned Rusalka
4 Bridge From Below
-Dredgers:
4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Darkmore Salvage
-Aggro:
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Narcomeba
-Lands:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
1 Island
Sideboard:
1 Darkblast
2 Rotting Rats
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Axe
2 Conflagrate
3 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Ancient Grudge
I'm thinking on taking one card out for a Life from the Loam main deck
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
PS: I'm still using burning inquiry but i'm thinking that i should go for Tormeting Voice
BURNING INQUIRY
PRO'S
- Very Explosive (3 draw = max of 18 dredge)
- Can disrupt your enemy (mostly combo decks)
- Can put 3 dredge card in 1 go (random thou)
- 1 mana enabler!
- Can't be spell snared! (Very popular in modern)
CON'S
- Not consistent (only randomly put dredger in the graveyard)
- Can disrupt you as well (no dredger in the graveyard + land discarded)
- Loxodon Smiter is your bestfriend
- Sometimes can't be played on turn 1
- Only few decks uses this at MTGO
TORMENTING VOICE
PRO'S
- Can put dredge card in your graveyard before even resolving (best)
- Consistent!
- No Loxodon cheat this time
- People use this in MTGO and having a good result
CON'S
- Can be spell snared!
- A 2 mana enabler
- Only draw you 2 cards
- Can surgical your dredge card before the spell is resolving
- Slower than burning Inquiry
----
I think i'm gonna switch to Tormenting Voice for consistency, although i really love Burning Inquiry for the explosiveness.
Any thoughts? (You can also give pro's and con's about these cards and i'm going to edit it)
One of the best plays of burning inquiry is having a dredger in your graveyard on turn 2, playing a fetch land, playing burning inquiry to mill ~25% of you deck and using the fetch land to trigger the bloodghasts. It's basically game over when you can pull that, and it's not that hard to happen because we have neonate, loothing and shriekhorn to enable the dredge on turn two.