I think that we should be focusing more on lists like Zen's for what the deck needs to be. I have been playing a lot of it and it is much more consistent. I have since dropped the Haunted/skaab and put Bridge back into legacy. I've started streaming some play to explain my lines of thought and will hopefully sit down for a deck tech soon.
Curious why you don't like my deck list considering I've consistently put up strong results in tournament play.
I think that we should be focusing more on lists like Zen's for what the deck needs to be. I have been playing a lot of it and it is much more consistent. I have since dropped the Haunted/skaab and put Bridge back into legacy. I've started streaming some play to explain my lines of thought and will hopefully sit down for a deck tech soon.
Curious why you don't like my deck list considering I've consistently put up strong results in tournament play.
I haven't personally played your decklist to form an opinion, off the bat there's a lot of enablers which can be a toss-up of good or bad, but I wouldn't say that I don't like it.
I am bringing my list to SCG Orlando in September, I mainly play on Xmage while the parts come via mail, and should be going to paper weekly events next week. I probably have logged about ~150 to 175 games.
I'm currently testing mystic retrieval with splendid reclamation.
The idea was with greater gargadon in mind as a way to fuel it.
I think I like it better than loam,getting ten lands on board in one shot was great with the painlands and it was better since I've been using two brownscales.
Have only tested as 2 ofs so far.
If you have dredged 10 lands into your yard by t3 you should already be looking at lethal creatures on board, unless you whiffed horribly. Gonna take dredge to a pptq tomorrow will post results.
Yes, I'll fire it off turn 1 if i have no other enablers.
I've been brewing an all-in combo version of the deck that eschews some of the win-more components of the traditional list (lore/rally/land) in favor of speed (SSG, Street wraith, gitaxian, serum powder w/ gemstone caverns out of board). I will post a list after dinner.
I haven't tried with pinnacle yet.Right now I'm trying to make gargadon work with it.My manabase was really messed up and I was going to run crucible as a way to feed gargadon without the bridges.Then some guys were opening boosters and I saw splendid reclamation and the light went on.
So far I have two days of testing so I'm far from determining its value.
I need to get more mana,i love hardcasting troll as a massive beater.
Paper magic is all I play,usually get in 6-10 games a day (I work in a geek store),affinity and D&T is what I play test against most days(buddies pride and joys).I can't enter the tournaments but I do get to play against some serious players with staple decks.(no proxies)
Now it looks like some other testing might be required with pinnacle,it is an interesting idea,thanks for putting it out there.
FLCL I'm really interested in seeing your updated list too.
Also haunted dead from the new set seems sweet, it might be better than stitchwing skaab. Black mana is much easier than blue mana and having 2 bodies is arguably better than one (rally the peasants for exemple). Also it provides an untapped flying blocker in the form of the spirit token.
You guys are diluting the deck with splendid et al. What this deck does best is getting 10-12 points of power on turn 2, then burning away blockers with conflagrate.
I've been testing a 17 land variant of the deck that runs 4x SSG for extra speed. Will report after i get more match data.
well done man. I think Suicide Zoo and Infect are our worst matchups as we heavily rely upon narcos for blocking.
Edit: SSG is the missing 57-60 card in the deck as it allows for so many insane utility plays while also speeding up the deck a turn. Turn 1 multi cantrip mega dredge, T2 Faithless flashback, T4 early GGT, the list goes on and on. 4x Lotus Petal sounds good to me!
Round 1 Deaths Shadow Zoo I know honestly one of our worst match ups I was bummed lol.
Lost 2-1 to some very close games I lost the dice roll which I think it honestly the reason I lost the match.
Round 2 R/G Tron Lost dice roll in this match as well.
I would consider this a good match up, he wins game 1 on the back of a Ugin.
on t4 when I was threatening lethal next turn.
Game 2 he durdles and so do i cant find much I win on the back of some horrible dredges took like 10 rounds.
Game 3 Ive got a great board state on t3 I have burning inquired and caught an Ugin to discard in his hand.
He finds his second Ugin with a topdeck then an Ulamog next turn to mill me out.
I am pretty bummed at this point and thinking about scooping.
Game 3 B/W tokens
Win game 1 normal dredge t4 or t5 win conflag killing blockers.
Game 2 I missplay a land for some reason to not bring back my bloodghast with him below 10 and he wins next turn.
Game 3 easy win normal dredge way.
1-2 at this point.
Game 4 Jeskai Control
Win game 1 after a few rounds of him trying to slow me down.
Game 2 on turn 2 he plays surgical, snapcaster mage, surgical to get all my ghasts and amalgams
I should have scooped this game but I grinded it out for 30 mins.
Game 3 Went to turns couldnt finish him before time ran out and we draw. Ugh.
Game 5 Jeskai Control again
Game 1 grindy game where he gets nahiri out and finally I hit a conflag in my yard to kill it then finish him up.
Game 2 fairly quick game no interations on his part win.
Game 6 I dropped after game 5 I was hungry and wasnt much of a chance to make prize pool.
How have you been finding Simian Spirit Guide in testing? Seems to me that it'd improve your best and rarest draws (a couple of lands, multiple one mana enablers and a dredger or two, which are already set up to kill by turn 4 anyway), but often it would be a dead card in hand and it does nothing in the graveyard. I'm not convinced it'd be consistent enough to make the cut. Imo you'd be better off playing 3 Shriekhorn (or another enabler of your choice) and 1 Haunted Dead instead
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
So as i was reading back in this thread a bit to help me decide on my build, i noticed pendelhaven (just a one-of) hasn't been discussed (unless i missed it). Seems pretty good to make all those neonates and narco bigger, trading with more stuff. Mono green land doesn't seem great, but maybe not the worst in a 20 land build with mostly red sources.
SSG has been absolutely incredible as it allows the deck to consistently go for a turn 2 flashbacked faithless looting, which is something the deck really wants to do in the absence of deep analysis. SSG makes dredge into a Turn 3 as opposed to Turn 4 deck.
Typical plays.
1. Turn 1 Mega cantrip plays i.e. T1 neonate into T1 burning inquiry, T1 looting into T1 looting, et al.
2. T1 faithless looting into T2 Fback faithless looting
3. T3 loam + conflagrate
4. t4 GGT
et al.
As for pendelhaven, the manabase is already stretched pretty thin, so I don't think it would work very well.
splendid reclamation is something I feel needs testing with various dredge types.the gitrog monster is another variant possibility,with troll, gargadon and bridge as well.Maybe add in crucible of worlds as a one of,some type of recursion for it and splendid reclamation like mystic retrieval.
I've added 3 bridges and two retrieval to it and will take it tonight and run it.
I expect it to be less explosive and am going with a big heavy hitter plan.
Also I feel a slower build has more room it can make for hate and anti-hate.
17 lands I agree with for a faster build but I think a full 22-24 is needed in the slower ones.
My goal is more of a midrange deck I think.
splendid reclamation is something I feel needs testing with various dredge types.the gitrog monster is another variant possibility,with troll, gargadon and bridge as well.Maybe add in crucible of worlds as a one of,some type of recursion for it and splendid reclamation like mystic retrieval.
I've added 3 bridges and two retrieval to it and will take it tonight and run it.
I expect it to be less explosive and am going with a big heavy hitter plan.
Also I feel a slower build has more room it can make for hate and anti-hate.
17 lands I agree with for a faster build but I think a full 22-24 is needed in the slower ones.
My goal is more of a midrange deck I think.
Today I made 10x0 in a PPTQ with 96 players. From my decklist I'm thinking of taking one Grudge to add something else, I don't know yet what to put. The rest of deck I think is fine.
2x0 Abzan Company
2x1 Storm
2x1 Jund
2x1 Burn
2x1 Jund
2x0 Grishoalbrand
2x1 Living End
Top 8
2x0 Grishoalbrand
2x0 Jund
2x0 Living End
How I sided against these decks (if you have ideas about this plan please share):
Curious why you don't like my deck list considering I've consistently put up strong results in tournament play.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13081&d=276413&f=MO
I haven't personally played your decklist to form an opinion, off the bat there's a lot of enablers which can be a toss-up of good or bad, but I wouldn't say that I don't like it.
UR Storm
RBG Dredge
EDH:
UR Mizzix
GB Gitrog
WB Daxos
UR Storm
RBG Dredge
EDH:
UR Mizzix
GB Gitrog
WB Daxos
The idea was with greater gargadon in mind as a way to fuel it.
I think I like it better than loam,getting ten lands on board in one shot was great with the painlands and it was better since I've been using two brownscales.
Have only tested as 2 ofs so far.
I've been brewing an all-in combo version of the deck that eschews some of the win-more components of the traditional list (lore/rally/land) in favor of speed (SSG, Street wraith, gitaxian, serum powder w/ gemstone caverns out of board). I will post a list after dinner.
So far I have two days of testing so I'm far from determining its value.
I need to get more mana,i love hardcasting troll as a massive beater.
Paper magic is all I play,usually get in 6-10 games a day (I work in a geek store),affinity and D&T is what I play test against most days(buddies pride and joys).I can't enter the tournaments but I do get to play against some serious players with staple decks.(no proxies)
Now it looks like some other testing might be required with pinnacle,it is an interesting idea,thanks for putting it out there.
FLCL I'm really interested in seeing your updated list too.
Thoughts on ground seal (sideboard) for anti hate? Negates scavenging ooze and surgical extraction, splash damage to snapcaster mage/goblin dark-dwellers and kolaghan's command (raise dead mode), without interferring with our own plan. The downside is it doesn't negate every gy hate such as rest in peace, grafdigger's cage, etc.
Also haunted dead from the new set seems sweet, it might be better than stitchwing skaab. Black mana is much easier than blue mana and having 2 bodies is arguably better than one (rally the peasants for exemple). Also it provides an untapped flying blocker in the form of the spirit token.
I'm considering hellspark elemental/scourge devil/rotting rats as well, anyone tried them?
I've been testing a 17 land variant of the deck that runs 4x SSG for extra speed. Will report after i get more match data.
Edit: SSG is the missing 57-60 card in the deck as it allows for so many insane utility plays while also speeding up the deck a turn. Turn 1 multi cantrip mega dredge, T2 Faithless flashback, T4 early GGT, the list goes on and on. 4x Lotus Petal sounds good to me!
Round 1 Deaths Shadow Zoo I know honestly one of our worst match ups I was bummed lol.
Lost 2-1 to some very close games I lost the dice roll which I think it honestly the reason I lost the match.
Round 2 R/G Tron Lost dice roll in this match as well.
I would consider this a good match up, he wins game 1 on the back of a Ugin.
on t4 when I was threatening lethal next turn.
Game 2 he durdles and so do i cant find much I win on the back of some horrible dredges took like 10 rounds.
Game 3 Ive got a great board state on t3 I have burning inquired and caught an Ugin to discard in his hand.
He finds his second Ugin with a topdeck then an Ulamog next turn to mill me out.
I am pretty bummed at this point and thinking about scooping.
Game 3 B/W tokens
Win game 1 normal dredge t4 or t5 win conflag killing blockers.
Game 2 I missplay a land for some reason to not bring back my bloodghast with him below 10 and he wins next turn.
Game 3 easy win normal dredge way.
1-2 at this point.
Game 4 Jeskai Control
Win game 1 after a few rounds of him trying to slow me down.
Game 2 on turn 2 he plays surgical, snapcaster mage, surgical to get all my ghasts and amalgams
I should have scooped this game but I grinded it out for 30 mins.
Game 3 Went to turns couldnt finish him before time ran out and we draw. Ugh.
Game 5 Jeskai Control again
Game 1 grindy game where he gets nahiri out and finally I hit a conflag in my yard to kill it then finish him up.
Game 2 fairly quick game no interations on his part win.
Game 6 I dropped after game 5 I was hungry and wasnt much of a chance to make prize pool.
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
2 dakmor salvage
Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Faithless Looting
2 Conflagrate
1 Rally the Peasants
1 Darkblast
3 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Gnaw to the bone
2 Darkblast
3 Lightning Axe
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Raven's Crime
Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
Typical plays.
1. Turn 1 Mega cantrip plays i.e. T1 neonate into T1 burning inquiry, T1 looting into T1 looting, et al.
2. T1 faithless looting into T2 Fback faithless looting
3. T3 loam + conflagrate
4. t4 GGT
et al.
As for pendelhaven, the manabase is already stretched pretty thin, so I don't think it would work very well.
I've added 3 bridges and two retrieval to it and will take it tonight and run it.
I expect it to be less explosive and am going with a big heavy hitter plan.
Also I feel a slower build has more room it can make for hate and anti-hate.
17 lands I agree with for a faster build but I think a full 22-24 is needed in the slower ones.
My goal is more of a midrange deck I think.
This is closer to assault loam (with molten vortex/seismic assault/life from the loam). I've played with a deck like this in the past and they are just a slower and more vulerable to gy hate version of midrange, with more inevitability if things go right. I don't think a 5 drop is what the deck needs to be fixed. Anyways this is very different than the archetype discussed in this thread.
Try here: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/220257-assault-loam
2x0 Abzan Company
2x1 Storm
2x1 Jund
2x1 Burn
2x1 Jund
2x0 Grishoalbrand
2x1 Living End
Top 8
2x0 Grishoalbrand
2x0 Jund
2x0 Living End
How I sided against these decks (if you have ideas about this plan please share):
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Stomping Ground
2 Dakmor salvage
Creatures
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Narcomoeba
2 Burning Inquiry
3 Shriekhorn
4 Faithless Looting
2 Conflagrate
1 Rally the Peasants
1 Darkblast
3 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Gnaw to the bone
1 Darkblast
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Conflagrate
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Thoughtseize