3 Company Combo decks in the top 32 of the recent SCG Open, one in the top 16. Not the most encouraging result, but the deck seems to be holding up alright. The top 16 deck is pretty standard but the other ones switch it up a bit.
I haven't seen any discussions about it yet.. so for those of you who have looked at the spoilers what do you think of this guy? (If you want to not be spoiled then stop reading now)
Dauntless Bodyguard W
Creature — Human Knight
2/1
As Dauntless Bodyguard enters the battlefield, choose another creature you control.
Sacrifice Dauntless Bodyguard: The chosen creature gains indestructible until end of turn.
• Dauntless Bodyguard's first ability isn't a triggered ability and doesn't use the stack. Players can't respond to your choice of which creature it's protecting.
• If Dauntless Bodyguard enters the battlefield at the same time as another creature, that creature can't be chosen for its ability.
• If the chosen creature leaves the battlefield, you can't choose a new creature for Dauntless Bodyguard to protect. If you activate its last ability in this case, no creature gains indestructible.
This has some neat uses as a Mother of Runes sort of creature. It needs a creature in play before you cast it to get full value which means hitting it, and say a Devoted Druid, off of Collected Company won't allow you to protect the Druid. It is an easy Chord target game 1 to protect Druids since you are not as worried about sweepers. If you play a T1 Dork you can follow it up with a T2 Druid and Dauntless Bodyguard protecting the Druid. If you get past their removal, as T2 Druids sometimes do, it gives you a bit of insurance if you can't find a win on T3. It plays well with Forge-Tender and Selfless Spirit as you won't always have the extra mana to get Spirit into play, and Anger of the Gods won't always be relevant in metagames which makes this new guy outclass Forge-Tender a bit. The 2 power can be relevant for trading with some random cards too. Overall I really like it and will look to squeeze in 1-2 in the maindeck depending on how they perform. I've been trying them out a bit so far and they seem decent. As long as they keep printing creatures with cmc <= 3 the deck will keep getting better.
@Torpf: if Dauntless Bodyguard's ability were templated more broadly as "Sacrifice Dauntless Bodyguard: Target creature gains indestructible until end of turn" I would be interested. But as it's worded now the combination of sequencing and single target restrictions as well as its arguably less relevant body stats compared to Selfless Spirit (flying) or Forge-Tender (pro-red) all offset the convenience of its lower casting cost to me. The fact that you have to sequence Bodyguard after the creature you're trying to protect is already in play gives your opponent a chance to remove that creature, so Bodyguard can only save the creature at instant speed if you have Chord ready to cast in hand. I'm glad you're testing it, though, good luck.
I'm not sure what type of meta to expect as I havent played at FNM in a long time, and we just had 2 major unbans which obviously shake things up.
That said, the reason I made my changes (Removing Rhonas + Renegade Rallier for 2 Voice of Resurgence) was because those 2 cards were almost always dead. Rhonas either sat there and did nothing, and Rallier mostly sat in my hand until something was removed, and a lot of the time something would be removed during my opponents turn rather than my own.
Voice just seems all-around better. The rest of the list is quite standard, but I somehow feel that there are better SB choices I could make. I suppose it does depend entirely on the meta.
@Torpf: if Dauntless Bodyguard's ability were templated more broadly as "Sacrifice Dauntless Bodyguard: Target creature gains indestructible until end of turn" I would be interested. But as it's worded now the combination of sequencing and single target restrictions as well as its arguably less relevant body stats compared to Selfless Spirit (flying) or Forge-Tender (pro-red) all offset the convenience of its lower casting cost to me. The fact that you have to sequence Bodyguard after the creature you're trying to protect is already in play gives your opponent a chance to remove that creature, so Bodyguard can only save the creature at instant speed if you have Chord ready to cast in hand. I'm glad you're testing it, though, good luck.
Oh I totally agree that the way its worded is a huge downside. I was viewing it as a more proactive card to essentially lock down the game if they don't have removal the turn I played the Druid. Playing 2 of them in lists has been ..meh, since you either blow out the opponent when they don't have removal, or then do and it almost 2-for-1's yourself. Having a single one as a Chord target for metas where Anger of the Gods is low is what I'm looking at now. I can also see just replacing Forge Tender with it since it is more catch-all (stops Push) while you still have Selfless Spirit for the sweepers. At the end of the day its just as good to have a Renegade Rallier and a fetchland.
So, I normally wouldn't have played this deck because I don't like the Lightning Bolt (with Blue) matchup. But it seemed safe, lol. 22 players.
Round 1 vs. UR Breach. He doesn't draw enough Burn and Tidehollow Scullers rip apart his hand, exiling 2 Through the Breaches. He gets some cards to stall for a bit in the late game, but I finish him off with creatures. In the next game, I consider casting a Tidehollow Sculler while he has 4 mana, but since my land is not Green (a 2nd Gavony Township), I can't Chord of Calling. He untaps, plays land and does Through the Breach. I respond with Chord for 3, getting a Tidehollow Sculler, which shows that he has only 1 Emrakul, 1 Snapcaster Mage, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I nab the Emrakul and although he gets a little bit of defense, I get there a few turns later. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. BW Tokens. I keep a 1 land hand. Maybe a mistake, but I scry Devoted Druid and keep it on top. He's not known for playing quick decks. But he makes me discard irrelevant stuff and plays Lingering Souls into L Souls into double Flashback. I lose to these 1/1 fellas still on 1 land. In the next game, I get Liliana, the Last Hope. Fitting name. He gets Gideon of the Trials and does some Wraths to kill Scullers and get his other Wraths back. He gets Souls and flashback the turn after the last Wrath and does the 9/7 Demon off Westvale Abbey with the tokens and Gideon. I have time, but he does a Path to Exile on my BoP on the final turn after I miss drawing anything of consequence. Had a Tracker, but few clues, just nothing cards. 0-2.
Round 3 vs. BG Deathcloud. I take nearly everything he has, but he gets another Deathcloud to kill a bunch of my creatures and lands. I keep a land and Devoted Druid and draw a land to CoCo for double Tidehollow Sculler. Lucky, lucky. In the next game, he gets stuck on 2 land and then STE into another land, but Gideon, Ally of Zendikar puts him low. He taps out to Maelstrom Pulse, but I have lethal on board. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. UR Breach. I get infinite life, but he keeps playing. I keep getting stumped. I probably should have played tighter, but I didn't see a way he could win. I eventually get out Duskwatch Recruiter and he scoops knowing that while he's tapped out, that Walking Ballista wins it. In the next game, he mulls to 5 and double Tidehollow Scullers get there. I just drew too much gas, had the infinite mana, and had a Selfless Spirit in case. I just pumped Gavony until it was game. First time drawing better than this guy in our last 12 matches, so glad to get that monkey off. Still didn't win the die roll against him, but you gotta start somewhere, right? 2-0.
3-1. So glad I got to play against 2 Breach decks. Not as glad to have outdrawn both opponents, lol. I guess you have to draw better than your opponents some time, right? I play around 4-6 times per week, so it's within the realm of possibility. Before I talk about the matchups, the easy thing to say is that I drew a BUNCH of Tidehollow Scullers today.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
The heavy Tireless Tracker / Knight build vs. Finks combo:
So I tried the list switching out the Finks for Trackers that GerryT posted on SCG earlier this week. 3 leagues, 5-10 record. I very much could be playing it wrong, but the deck felt clunky.
I agree that Tracker is a bad defensive creature and the increase in 3 drops is a concern. However, he is fantastic in grindy match ups. Knight has always been a card people have toyed with in these decks, but the idea of having a mana denial package as well as a card that can scale past Tarmogoyf or Gurmag Angler is pretty great.
That said, Courser of Kruphix was a mediocre card for me, I really missed Eternal Witness. I also really missed the Black for the sideboard, and 6 colorless lands felt like too many. People are playing enough basics because of Ponza and Blood Moon that you really need the Knight to punish them in multiples. So here’s what I’m going to try next:
The heavy Tireless Tracker / Knight build vs. Finks combo:
So I tried the list switching out the Finks for Trackers that GerryT posted on SCG earlier this week. 3 leagues, 5-10 record. I very much could be playing it wrong, but the deck felt clunky.
I agree that Tracker is a bad defensive creature and the increase in 3 drops is a concern. However, he is fantastic in grindy match ups. Knight has always been a card people have toyed with in these decks, but the idea of having a mana denial package as well as a card that can scale past Tarmogoyf or Gurmag Angler is pretty great.
That said, Courser of Kruphix was a mediocre card for me, I really missed Eternal Witness. I also really missed the Black for the sideboard, and 6 colorless lands felt like too many. People are playing enough basics because of Ponza and Blood Moon that you really need the Knight to punish them in multiples. So here’s what I’m going to try next:
I like that list, and would even suggest replacing 2 Trackers with 2 Voice to allow you to grind better against Midrange decks. With less Witnesses you can't just keep looping Companies and outvalue your opponent, so adding in a few more 2-for-1's helps. Voice also easily gets to the point where you can trade with opposing goyfs, at least faster than Tracker. I'd want at least one Township in there too. Most decks play 2-3 lands, so if you're playing 3 LD effects are you really going to kill more than the amount of basics they're playing? Without the whole turbolands strategy you are just using KotR for killing Tron lands and manlands. Trying to commit to anything else will fall short I am expecting.
@adri_kalo: What's your 75? I have had similar results with Courser but I wondered if that might be a natural effect of running her with only 21 lands and 8 fetches. I imagine you run more lands or at least a few more fetches to support Tracker?
It’s actually 2 Field 2 Ghost Quarter, but yes the idea is less to completely color screw the opponent than to attack Tron and Creature lands primarily. I’ve found myself in a position of choosing between casting a relevant spell or taking a turn off to trade lands too often. I also think it’s worth keeping the black mana in for sideboard options.
Regarding Township, I’ve found the games haven’t lasted long enough to make that a good primary plan. It’s possible I could shave a Tomb to make it a tutor target, but that doesn’t seem great either.
It’s also possible the deck is still too heavy on 3 drops and a Tracker/Voice split is the necessary option.
I’m firing up League 1 with this list tonight and will report back in a few days.
Question: Do people get value out of tourney / match summaries or is that just a bunch of narcissim?
Question: Do people get value out of tourney / match summaries or is that just a bunch of narcissim?
I can't speak for everyone but I certainly appreciate it when people post match summaries. We want to get as much data together as possible, especially with detailed info on how well flex slots perform so we can better tune our lists. If you're worried about the match summary getting too long just toss it in a spoiler tab.
Does anyone have experience playing against Ponza? What's the matchup like for us?
I've played several matches so far but this is still a difficult question to answer since there are so many versions of Ponza. Between the different builds and Ponza's high variance you could play against the archetype every week and have different results every time. On average I think we are slightly favored because their primary angle of interaction -- land destruction -- doesn't always line up well against our high Dork count. We can still win the game even if we're behind on board and mana if we just have 1G / 1W for our combo pieces. With that said you do need to respect the possible T2 Blood Moon / Stone rain. Mull for Fetches / basics / dorks and keep a ~3 land hand if possible. They are also typically removal-light with a few Bolts / Inferno Titan in the main and some red sweepers in the side. If you have Forge-Tenders and/or Selfless Spirits bring them in. Spell Queller and Tidehollow Sculler can do a great job of holding off some of their LD effects -- even if they're killed later in the game and they get their spell back the relevance of LD is probably diminished by that point. Comboing out is usually more realistic than trying to outgrind their top-end. With all of that said there will be some games where Ponza curves out perfectly with ramp into LD into threats and there's not too much we (or many other decks) can do about that, especially if they're on the play, so don't feel too bad if they've got the nuts.
It’s actually 2 Field 2 Ghost Quarter, but yes the idea is less to completely color screw the opponent than to attack Tron and Creature lands primarily. I’ve found myself in a position of choosing between casting a relevant spell or taking a turn off to trade lands too often. I also think it’s worth keeping the black mana in for sideboard options. Yeah that 3 was a typo, I swear I can count.. If you are looking to attack Tron/Man lands I've found even 2 are going to be fine. With KotR that's like having 6 in your deck. It lets you play a more flexible landbase. I've done it with Kessig, Township, 2 Canopies, and it was great. Also with GQ but not FoR yet. I can see going to 1 Canopy, 1 Kessig, 1 Township, and 2 GQ/FoR or something even.
Regarding Township, I’ve found the games haven’t lasted long enough to make that a good primary plan. It’s possible I could shave a Tomb to make it a tutor target, but that doesn’t seem great either. I'm thinking about the midrange decks where there is too much removal flying around to combo off. Against say Jund, if they get an Ooze out and you can't chain Witnesses and Companies (which you're already low on Witnesses) it can get hard. Without Finks, Township loses a lot of value, and you have Tracker as a manasink which is fine. I was thinking more along the lines of dropping 2 Trackers and still having a manasink.
Question: Do people get value out of tourney / match summaries or is that just a bunch of narcissim? These days I'd say yes if you are playing in a large-ish tournament and placing high. There are so many "I went 2-2 at FNM" posts now that the internet really doesn't need more. If in each game you can explain key points of the matchup, some unique things you did to win, etc... and make it almost like a matchup guide so that people can get something out of it rather than what as been said time and time again. I don't really read many tournament reports anymore other than the larger tournament ones.
Well I've played 3 leagues with the Abzan / Knight build, and I've gone 5-10, and I played 3 leagues with the straight G/W build, and I got the same result. The G/W build felt very flawed, the Abzan build felt close. I count 2 matches I for sure should have won had I not played poorly, and 1 match I win if I don't mis click when I had the game won but I clicked through combat because of internet lag issues. Very frustrating. Even then, I'm only 8-7.
The grindy match ups are improved over the Finks / Seer combo, like UW Control, Jund, Death's Shadow, etc. They now feel like they are truly closer to 50/50, or that we are slightly ahead. I've had 2 very close losses in game 3's against Traverse Shadow and Grixis Shadow, but they were coin flips. The LD package + Sculler package gives us a fighting chance against Tron, but it still feels dicey depending on what type of interaction they have. The Burn match up is obviously much scarier without the Finks Combo.
BR Hollow One seems unwinnable. Oddly, I've faced 2 Faeries decks and it's the same thing. I don't think there is a configuration that would work. Cheap removal backed up by fast and powerful sticky threats just doens't line up well against us. Any deck that can leverage all the parts of Collective Brutality to its advantage is a nightmare scenario for us.
Regarding Ponza, I agree with Shelldell about Ponza. I personally feel that we are ahead because many of our draws can just ignore what they are doing. If they don't have a removal spell early for our mana dorks, we just can ignore their LD for the most part. That said, they can still get you wtih a quick LD effect backed up by a removal spell, or a particularly nasty BBE.
It's frustrating. It's only been about 20 matches, and I haven't played any deck more than twice, but I have been taking a pounding the last 2 weeks. The advantage of running Finks combo over more powerful creatures is that you can just draw into a combo more often. A Vizier by itself can just win more games out of nowhere. They can kill your druid, steal your Co Co, and leave you with nothing but mana and Vizier, and you can untap, draw a CoCo off the top and just win on the spot. YOu can't really do that if you don't already have Druid in play. The beatdown plan in that deck is hot garbage. The flip side is you have no room for taking a game longer and in the games where they kill your first rush of creatures you don't have any way of cathing back up. Against grindy decks that's bad. Against faster decks it doesn't really matter that much.
The biggest problem is the life combo isn't infinite online, it is very time intensive and you really can gain only ~50 or so life before the time becomes cost prohibitive.
I think I may go back to the Finks Combo and see if that improves my results. It could be that I'm just coming up short by not playing correctly and having some bad luck with a small ish sample too.
I think what sticks out to me is the amount of noncreature spells in a CoCo deck. You have 27 creatures and 10 of them are dorks. Being able to hold up mana to either Spell Queller or CoCo (or better yet, CoCo into Queller) seems really strong, but you lose a lot of value hits. Still, it must have worked out for him this weekend.
I think what sticks out to me is the amount of noncreature spells in a CoCo deck. You have 27 creatures and 10 of them are dorks. Being able to hold up mana to either Spell Queller or CoCo (or better yet, CoCo into Queller) seems really strong, but you lose a lot of value hits. Still, it must have worked out for him this weekend.
Yeah his list is a bit similar to what I've been running, but having 26 hits w/ coco (ballista being a miss) seems low af. Being low on ewitt/voice/tracker seems like the list would be weak to interaction as well. Was he on camera at all? Did they even stream the GP?
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Eldritch Evolution > Chord of Calling: Collected Company alone necessitates a low, Evolution-friendly mana curve, and while Chord is better in interactive scenarios, Evolution is better otherwise as it can tutor druid as early as turn 2.
Sidisi's Faithful > Viscera Seer/Stingscourger: Although this deck cannot produce infinite U, this card alone pulls double duty as both battlefield disruption and synergy piece that enables stalling out with Kitchen Finks and Vizier of Remedies (Exploit the Finks, target the Faithful with itself, rinse and repeat).
Failure // Comply > Spell Queller: Now here is where I get shaky about my decisions; whereas Failure // Comply can buy two turns in a row guaranteed (a boon to such an explosively fast combo such as ours), Spell Queller is probably better in the instances where removal is light.
Eidolon of the Rhetoric > ???: Honestly, I'd rather have another card other than another Storm hate card . . . or at least something that already works well with the postboard plan . . . maybe Renegade Rallier?
M1: BR Hollow One: I still think this match up is as bad as Tron. I get smoked every time I play it. I lost 0-2.
M2: GR Hollow One: Oddball deck that ran Vengevine instead of Bloodghast. I didn't see what else the green was for, but not having to worry about Collective Brutality or Fatal Push or Thoughtseize helped tremendously. Won 2-0 fairly easily.
M3: Naya Zoo: It looked like he was on Naya Company in G1, so I boarded out my Seers thinking it wouldn't be useful in a race to infinite damage, but then it became clear I was wrong. Won 2-0 anyway
M4: Burn: Lost in a fairly typical fashion. I had Worship fairly early but I couldn't stick a creature. I missed a play on G2 to Chord for Forge Tender earlier in the game, but he had Path to Exile so it likely would not have mattered. Lost 0-2. I went back through my 70 odd matches over the last month and this was the first time I played Burn. Kind of shocking.
M5: Grixis Death's Shadow: Got smoked in G1, won a close G2, and lost a close G3. I went with the Value Town plan and it seemed to work well in the SB games. He drew Temur Battle Rage on the last turn before I was going to turn the corner. I probably misplayed here by not chumping with a 2/1 Finks earlier, I got greedy hoping I could find a window to add a Counter back on it with Township as long as I was out of Bolt/Snap/Bolt range at 7 life, but I forgot he could catch up with Battle Rage.
General Thoughts: That odd looking Knightfall Top 4 notwithstanding, playing a creature based combo deck in a field full of Fatal Pushes, Lightning Bolts, Thoughtseizes, etc. is an uphill battle. It's further complicated by the fact that your smoothest combo has summoning sickness, which the Knightfall combo doesn't fix. That said, Counters Company had a good day 2 showing at the GP and a nice showing with 3 or 4 decks in the top 32 in the last Open, so it's not a joke deck.
The Value Town plan seemed to work great against Shadow, I just didn't leverage my card advantage quickly enough and thought I had more time than I did. The single Worship has been great. It's technology that ported over from the 4x Knight/Tracker builds that 5-0'd a while ago, and it was a big part of the Knight Fall deck's success when it was on camera. I'm basically conceding the Tron match up with this list though. After landing Sculler + Ghost Quarter and having the Combo in hand and still losing to Tron, I've concluded it's just not winnable consistently. You can get them with a soft lock and combo-ing off in a reasonable timeframe if you dedicate the cards to it, but sometimes they'll have a spare Tron piece, win condition, or O Stone and still win on time.
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http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119404
A version splashing red for Magus of the Moon and playing Redcap as a third combo finisher. Seems kinds clunky Imo but I doubt people expect this kind of thing.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=119443
This list trims some of the "core" cards for 3 Voice and a more robust toolbox.
There were also a few other company decks in the top 32, including a pretty interesting GB Value build.
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StaffW
Creature — Human Knight
2/1
As Dauntless Bodyguard enters the battlefield, choose another creature you control.
Sacrifice Dauntless Bodyguard: The chosen creature gains indestructible until end of turn.
• If Dauntless Bodyguard enters the battlefield at the same time as another creature, that creature can't be chosen for its ability.
• If the chosen creature leaves the battlefield, you can't choose a new creature for Dauntless Bodyguard to protect. If you activate its last ability in this case, no creature gains indestructible.
This has some neat uses as a Mother of Runes sort of creature. It needs a creature in play before you cast it to get full value which means hitting it, and say a Devoted Druid, off of Collected Company won't allow you to protect the Druid. It is an easy Chord target game 1 to protect Druids since you are not as worried about sweepers. If you play a T1 Dork you can follow it up with a T2 Druid and Dauntless Bodyguard protecting the Druid. If you get past their removal, as T2 Druids sometimes do, it gives you a bit of insurance if you can't find a win on T3. It plays well with Forge-Tender and Selfless Spirit as you won't always have the extra mana to get Spirit into play, and Anger of the Gods won't always be relevant in metagames which makes this new guy outclass Forge-Tender a bit. The 2 power can be relevant for trading with some random cards too. Overall I really like it and will look to squeeze in 1-2 in the maindeck depending on how they perform. I've been trying them out a bit so far and they seem decent. As long as they keep printing creatures with cmc <= 3 the deck will keep getting better.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I'm kind of torn on the SB. Not sure if I should include things like Reclamation Sage, Phyrexian Revoker, Spellskite, or something else.
Thoughts?
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Eternal Witness
4x Kitchen Finks
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Viscera Seer
4x Vizier of Remedies
2x Voice of Resurgence
1x Walking Ballista
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
Land (22)
3x Forest
2x Gavony Township
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
2x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Orzhov Pontiff
3x Path to Exile
1x Pharika, God of Affliction
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Selfless Spirit
3x Tidehollow Sculler
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
@Arkaedrian: what kind of meta are you expecting?
I'm not sure what type of meta to expect as I havent played at FNM in a long time, and we just had 2 major unbans which obviously shake things up.
That said, the reason I made my changes (Removing Rhonas + Renegade Rallier for 2 Voice of Resurgence) was because those 2 cards were almost always dead. Rhonas either sat there and did nothing, and Rallier mostly sat in my hand until something was removed, and a lot of the time something would be removed during my opponents turn rather than my own.
Voice just seems all-around better. The rest of the list is quite standard, but I somehow feel that there are better SB choices I could make. I suppose it does depend entirely on the meta.
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
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StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Round 1 vs. UR Breach. He doesn't draw enough Burn and Tidehollow Scullers rip apart his hand, exiling 2 Through the Breaches. He gets some cards to stall for a bit in the late game, but I finish him off with creatures. In the next game, I consider casting a Tidehollow Sculler while he has 4 mana, but since my land is not Green (a 2nd Gavony Township), I can't Chord of Calling. He untaps, plays land and does Through the Breach. I respond with Chord for 3, getting a Tidehollow Sculler, which shows that he has only 1 Emrakul, 1 Snapcaster Mage, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I nab the Emrakul and although he gets a little bit of defense, I get there a few turns later. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. BW Tokens. I keep a 1 land hand. Maybe a mistake, but I scry Devoted Druid and keep it on top. He's not known for playing quick decks. But he makes me discard irrelevant stuff and plays Lingering Souls into L Souls into double Flashback. I lose to these 1/1 fellas still on 1 land. In the next game, I get Liliana, the Last Hope. Fitting name. He gets Gideon of the Trials and does some Wraths to kill Scullers and get his other Wraths back. He gets Souls and flashback the turn after the last Wrath and does the 9/7 Demon off Westvale Abbey with the tokens and Gideon. I have time, but he does a Path to Exile on my BoP on the final turn after I miss drawing anything of consequence. Had a Tracker, but few clues, just nothing cards. 0-2.
Round 3 vs. BG Deathcloud. I take nearly everything he has, but he gets another Deathcloud to kill a bunch of my creatures and lands. I keep a land and Devoted Druid and draw a land to CoCo for double Tidehollow Sculler. Lucky, lucky. In the next game, he gets stuck on 2 land and then STE into another land, but Gideon, Ally of Zendikar puts him low. He taps out to Maelstrom Pulse, but I have lethal on board. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. UR Breach. I get infinite life, but he keeps playing. I keep getting stumped. I probably should have played tighter, but I didn't see a way he could win. I eventually get out Duskwatch Recruiter and he scoops knowing that while he's tapped out, that Walking Ballista wins it. In the next game, he mulls to 5 and double Tidehollow Scullers get there. I just drew too much gas, had the infinite mana, and had a Selfless Spirit in case. I just pumped Gavony until it was game. First time drawing better than this guy in our last 12 matches, so glad to get that monkey off. Still didn't win the die roll against him, but you gotta start somewhere, right? 2-0.
3-1. So glad I got to play against 2 Breach decks. Not as glad to have outdrawn both opponents, lol. I guess you have to draw better than your opponents some time, right? I play around 4-6 times per week, so it's within the realm of possibility. Before I talk about the matchups, the easy thing to say is that I drew a BUNCH of Tidehollow Scullers today.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)The heavy Tireless Tracker / Knight build vs. Finks combo:
So I tried the list switching out the Finks for Trackers that GerryT posted on SCG earlier this week. 3 leagues, 5-10 record. I very much could be playing it wrong, but the deck felt clunky.
I agree that Tracker is a bad defensive creature and the increase in 3 drops is a concern. However, he is fantastic in grindy match ups. Knight has always been a card people have toyed with in these decks, but the idea of having a mana denial package as well as a card that can scale past Tarmogoyf or Gurmag Angler is pretty great.
That said, Courser of Kruphix was a mediocre card for me, I really missed Eternal Witness. I also really missed the Black for the sideboard, and 6 colorless lands felt like too many. People are playing enough basics because of Ponza and Blood Moon that you really need the Knight to punish them in multiples. So here’s what I’m going to try next:
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
2 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Tireless Tracker
3 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
4 Collected Company
2 Field of Ruin
5 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War’s Wage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Path to Exile
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sin Collector
3 Tidehollow Sculler
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StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
It’s actually 2 Field 2 Ghost Quarter, but yes the idea is less to completely color screw the opponent than to attack Tron and Creature lands primarily. I’ve found myself in a position of choosing between casting a relevant spell or taking a turn off to trade lands too often. I also think it’s worth keeping the black mana in for sideboard options.
Regarding Township, I’ve found the games haven’t lasted long enough to make that a good primary plan. It’s possible I could shave a Tomb to make it a tutor target, but that doesn’t seem great either.
It’s also possible the deck is still too heavy on 3 drops and a Tracker/Voice split is the necessary option.
I’m firing up League 1 with this list tonight and will report back in a few days.
Question: Do people get value out of tourney / match summaries or is that just a bunch of narcissim?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
I've played several matches so far but this is still a difficult question to answer since there are so many versions of Ponza. Between the different builds and Ponza's high variance you could play against the archetype every week and have different results every time. On average I think we are slightly favored because their primary angle of interaction -- land destruction -- doesn't always line up well against our high Dork count. We can still win the game even if we're behind on board and mana if we just have 1G / 1W for our combo pieces. With that said you do need to respect the possible T2 Blood Moon / Stone rain. Mull for Fetches / basics / dorks and keep a ~3 land hand if possible. They are also typically removal-light with a few Bolts / Inferno Titan in the main and some red sweepers in the side. If you have Forge-Tenders and/or Selfless Spirits bring them in. Spell Queller and Tidehollow Sculler can do a great job of holding off some of their LD effects -- even if they're killed later in the game and they get their spell back the relevance of LD is probably diminished by that point. Comboing out is usually more realistic than trying to outgrind their top-end. With all of that said there will be some games where Ponza curves out perfectly with ramp into LD into threats and there's not too much we (or many other decks) can do about that, especially if they're on the play, so don't feel too bad if they've got the nuts.
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StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
1) How well positioned is Vizier Company in the typical meta at the moment?
2) What are our matchups like? I assume big mana is still hell at times.
3) I'm considering dropping Viscera Seer in favor of either a red or a blue splash. What does each splash (or lack thereof) provide?
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
The grindy match ups are improved over the Finks / Seer combo, like UW Control, Jund, Death's Shadow, etc. They now feel like they are truly closer to 50/50, or that we are slightly ahead. I've had 2 very close losses in game 3's against Traverse Shadow and Grixis Shadow, but they were coin flips. The LD package + Sculler package gives us a fighting chance against Tron, but it still feels dicey depending on what type of interaction they have. The Burn match up is obviously much scarier without the Finks Combo.
BR Hollow One seems unwinnable. Oddly, I've faced 2 Faeries decks and it's the same thing. I don't think there is a configuration that would work. Cheap removal backed up by fast and powerful sticky threats just doens't line up well against us. Any deck that can leverage all the parts of Collective Brutality to its advantage is a nightmare scenario for us.
Regarding Ponza, I agree with Shelldell about Ponza. I personally feel that we are ahead because many of our draws can just ignore what they are doing. If they don't have a removal spell early for our mana dorks, we just can ignore their LD for the most part. That said, they can still get you wtih a quick LD effect backed up by a removal spell, or a particularly nasty BBE.
It's frustrating. It's only been about 20 matches, and I haven't played any deck more than twice, but I have been taking a pounding the last 2 weeks. The advantage of running Finks combo over more powerful creatures is that you can just draw into a combo more often. A Vizier by itself can just win more games out of nowhere. They can kill your druid, steal your Co Co, and leave you with nothing but mana and Vizier, and you can untap, draw a CoCo off the top and just win on the spot. YOu can't really do that if you don't already have Druid in play. The beatdown plan in that deck is hot garbage. The flip side is you have no room for taking a game longer and in the games where they kill your first rush of creatures you don't have any way of cathing back up. Against grindy decks that's bad. Against faster decks it doesn't really matter that much.
The biggest problem is the life combo isn't infinite online, it is very time intensive and you really can gain only ~50 or so life before the time becomes cost prohibitive.
I think I may go back to the Finks Combo and see if that improves my results. It could be that I'm just coming up short by not playing correctly and having some bad luck with a small ish sample too.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gppho18/event-coverage/top-8-decklists-2018-03-18
I think what sticks out to me is the amount of noncreature spells in a CoCo deck. You have 27 creatures and 10 of them are dorks. Being able to hold up mana to either Spell Queller or CoCo (or better yet, CoCo into Queller) seems really strong, but you lose a lot of value hits. Still, it must have worked out for him this weekend.
Yeah his list is a bit similar to what I've been running, but having 26 hits w/ coco (ballista being a miss) seems low af. Being low on ewitt/voice/tracker seems like the list would be weak to interaction as well. Was he on camera at all? Did they even stream the GP?
edit: he was on stream!
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Arbor Elf
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Walking Ballista
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Sidisi's Faithful
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Eternal Witness
Spells (9)
4 Collected Company
3 Eldritch Evolution
2 Retreat to Coralhelm
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
4 Failure // Comply
3 Path to Exile
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Spellskite
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kataki, War's Wage
Peculiar Card Choice Rationale:
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Viscera Seer
2 Voice of Resurgence
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
4 Collected Company
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Path to Exile
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Sin Collector
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Worship
M1: BR Hollow One: I still think this match up is as bad as Tron. I get smoked every time I play it. I lost 0-2.
M2: GR Hollow One: Oddball deck that ran Vengevine instead of Bloodghast. I didn't see what else the green was for, but not having to worry about Collective Brutality or Fatal Push or Thoughtseize helped tremendously. Won 2-0 fairly easily.
M3: Naya Zoo: It looked like he was on Naya Company in G1, so I boarded out my Seers thinking it wouldn't be useful in a race to infinite damage, but then it became clear I was wrong. Won 2-0 anyway
M4: Burn: Lost in a fairly typical fashion. I had Worship fairly early but I couldn't stick a creature. I missed a play on G2 to Chord for Forge Tender earlier in the game, but he had Path to Exile so it likely would not have mattered. Lost 0-2. I went back through my 70 odd matches over the last month and this was the first time I played Burn. Kind of shocking.
M5: Grixis Death's Shadow: Got smoked in G1, won a close G2, and lost a close G3. I went with the Value Town plan and it seemed to work well in the SB games. He drew Temur Battle Rage on the last turn before I was going to turn the corner. I probably misplayed here by not chumping with a 2/1 Finks earlier, I got greedy hoping I could find a window to add a Counter back on it with Township as long as I was out of Bolt/Snap/Bolt range at 7 life, but I forgot he could catch up with Battle Rage.
General Thoughts: That odd looking Knightfall Top 4 notwithstanding, playing a creature based combo deck in a field full of Fatal Pushes, Lightning Bolts, Thoughtseizes, etc. is an uphill battle. It's further complicated by the fact that your smoothest combo has summoning sickness, which the Knightfall combo doesn't fix. That said, Counters Company had a good day 2 showing at the GP and a nice showing with 3 or 4 decks in the top 32 in the last Open, so it's not a joke deck.
The Value Town plan seemed to work great against Shadow, I just didn't leverage my card advantage quickly enough and thought I had more time than I did. The single Worship has been great. It's technology that ported over from the 4x Knight/Tracker builds that 5-0'd a while ago, and it was a big part of the Knight Fall deck's success when it was on camera. I'm basically conceding the Tron match up with this list though. After landing Sculler + Ghost Quarter and having the Combo in hand and still losing to Tron, I've concluded it's just not winnable consistently. You can get them with a soft lock and combo-ing off in a reasonable timeframe if you dedicate the cards to it, but sometimes they'll have a spare Tron piece, win condition, or O Stone and still win on time.