Pre-board, you want a main-decked Scavenging Ooze as a Chord target because that's your leanest way to interact with your opponent combo-ing off, plus with how Abzan Company decks are designed to get some value from graveyard (EWits and Ralliers), Ooze lines up well there. Fiend Hunter is another slot in the main as another Chord target to break up the combo. Sometimes this matchup can be swingy and someone just gets ahead in terms of mana dorks, Company, and Chord and all that - I'd encourage you to look at this matchup as similar to a 4c Saheeli mirror in standard. You cannot play around the combo in the early turns of the game, so you just need to develop and if you lose, that's variance. Post sideboard of course you both get a lot more interaction and it tends to be more about value, hence why you want probably two Tireless Trackers in your 75, not only to draw removal but also because it is a ton of cards to see through clues, but it was a great way to put pressure in the board stalls that you often see in an Company mirror.
If your opponent combos to X life, remember that as long as they don't have the combo in play to do it again, you can kill them with either an Archangel/Feeder combo or having Melira AND Anafenza from your combo in play. This is very unlikely to happen as they can just scry to something at the top of their deck that'll finish you off next turn, but who knows.
In playing the couple of mirror matches I did at GP Vancouver, I found that having the Archangel main gave me a significant advantage over my opponents because with an Ooze and an Angel they were effectively locked out of the game and I was guaranteed to win the "long game", and it could apply pressure that was nearly unstoppable, because you grew your team faster than your opponent can Gavony Township while still holding up mana yourself.
A note: if your opponent is playing Voice of Resurgence, I tended to ignore those until I absolutely had to. The game really is not about Voice of Resurgence in my experience, it was about assembling the combo with protection or disruption your opponents.
What do you folks think about replacing wall of roots with lotus cobra in a build that's heavy on renegade ralliers? I think it could generate a lot of mana with the "crack fetch, get it back with rallier" line that's so common. You can even do things like turn one mana dork, turn two cobra, play fetch, crack it, play rallier to get the fetch back, then play another three drop. That's a nut draw of course, but it's easy to imagine a lot of scenarios where the card leads to very explosive openings.
What do you folks think about replacing wall of roots with lotus cobra in a build that's heavy on renegade ralliers? I think it could generate a lot of mana with the "crack fetch, get it back with rallier" line that's so common. You can even do things like turn one mana dork, turn two cobra, play fetch, crack it, play rallier to get the fetch back, then play another three drop. That's a nut draw of course, but it's easy to imagine a lot of scenarios where the card leads to very explosive openings.
Seems really reasonable to me, though without wall I think Chord should probably be something else. Chord is just not a very good card without the occasional ridiculous plays with wall of roots making 2 mana.
What do you folks think about replacing wall of roots with lotus cobra in a build that's heavy on renegade ralliers? I think it could generate a lot of mana with the "crack fetch, get it back with rallier" line that's so common. You can even do things like turn one mana dork, turn two cobra, play fetch, crack it, play rallier to get the fetch back, then play another three drop. That's a nut draw of course, but it's easy to imagine a lot of scenarios where the card leads to very explosive openings.
Without Wall you don't want to play Chord, which then you can argue is getting into another deck. Wall is also very good for stalling aggro decks which Cobra can't really do. Overall Cobra can have more burst, but Wall has more consistency which is why I've been a strong advocate for it since day 1.
Just wanted to share the decklists for the Top8 of a tournament we at MainPhaseMTG recently held (which included an Abzan Company list), as well as some musings on what these results could indicate for the format going forward. Spoiler alert: I say good things about Abzan Company. Check it out here. Let me know what you think!
I played a list super close to Eric Severson's GP top 8 list at a WNM.
Round 1 vs. Collected Zoo. Not much to see here since his only removal in 2 games was Domri Rade. I gum the ground a little bit and then infinite combo twice. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Blue Moon. In the first game, I just have enough gas to get there. Top decked Gavony Township was also huge to breathe a sigh of relief with a Finks in play and to quicken the clock. In the next game, he couldn't get more than 4 mana and I just SWARMED the board. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Affinity. Punted the first game really badly in multiple ways. I thought I could do enough Collected Company to find Spike Feeder or cast my Archangel of Thune and Chord of Calling for Spike Feeder if I drew a land in 2 turns. I didn't and lost. In the next game a mull of 4 lands, BoP, and Kataki, War's Wage found me more lands and a Tireless Tracker before I died. 0-2.
Round 4 vs. Ad Nauseam. He got me good in the first game after I gained infinite life, but couldn't kill him until next turn because of Phyrexian Unlife (I had found Melira AND Anafenza to buff my creatures). He wins via Laboratory Maniac, which I figured he'd do, but I still have to make him do it. In the next 2 games, I find Sin Collector and a Tidehollow Sculler in the 3rd game. He mulled to 4 in the 2nd game. I drew all the sideboard cards, or enough to get him. 2-1.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
It's a combo piece with a good upside, it is far from useless.
EDIT: I'm stupid, misread the thing, seems pretty bad.
Well with Anafenza combo (not Melira) it does also make infinite deathtouch snakes, so is a slow way to deal infinite damage. Probably too cute but doesn't seem awful. Seems insane in certain matchups like the mirror and Infect. I think it has potential but probably isn't good enough as a general creature.
It's a combo piece with a good upside, it is far from useless.
EDIT: I'm stupid, misread the thing, seems pretty bad.
Well with Anafenza combo (not Melira) it does also make infinite deathtouch snakes, so is a slow way to deal infinite damage. Probably too cute but doesn't seem awful. Seems insane in certain matchups like the mirror and Infect. I think it has potential but probably isn't good enough as a general creature.
With Anafenza it's infinite two power snakes which is good, but that should already win you the game with infinite life and infinite scries. Plus if you want that effect I would suggest Blood Artist. The effect is only when you place a counter on a creature which is new wording, but presumably means you have to control the effect doing the putting to get the effect. Otherwise it wouldn't work with its own ability to put a counter on the opponents creature. Which means it probably won't work with infect and won't work with opposing kitchen finks. Basically it's a cool card, but you would want either Blood Artist or Pharika, God of Affliction or Ophiomancer or Intrepid Hero
Any advice for sideboarding against the various death's shadow flavors? Do I board it like a midrange matchups so I should board out the mana dorks? Do I board out grindy midrange stuff like eternal witness/rallier?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Any advice for sideboarding against the various death's shadow flavors? Do I board it like a midrange matchups so I should board out the mana dorks? Do I board out grindy midrange stuff like eternal witness/rallier?
I usually treat it very similar to the normal jund/grixis lists without death's shadow, with some minor differences. I don't want mindbender, and I want more removal. Chameleon collossus has been great.
Playing more non-creatures with 4 chord and 4 coco makes my dick shrink.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Way too much trouble for what amounts to a goyf with indestructible and evasion. The sac is super expensive(for modern) and the payoff is ultimately just a beatstick and it's not like we can freely sac something every turn to turn this thing on. I'd rather just play goyf.
In other news, just played against blue moon and I think I gained the most life ever in 1 game from finks without any combo. Drew all 4 Finks, cast all 4 finks, got back a finks with e-wit. 2 Persist triggers for a total of 14 life.
Super weird game 3 in general. Game stalled out until we were both in 7-8 lands. They hardcast Platinum Emperion and a turn later had a Clique. I'm barely surviving off the life gain from all the finks and(at that point) 1 Angel swing. They tapped my board with cryptic and hit me with emperion and dropped me for 2. Dunno why they did that considering it wasn't enough to kill me and they were better served to bounce angel so they could get in with their Clique. I draw and play Courser and my Finks, Angel, and over the course of the next 2-3 turns(Opponent can't attack cause at this point my board is large enough to kill Emperion) my board gets absolutely massive from the life triggers from Courser after ripping multiple fetch lands off the top. After that I naturally drew into Spike Feeder and they conceded to infinite life(Oppo figured I would eventually draw into enough e wits and maelstrom pulses to kill emperion)
During almost the entire lategame I had a Distended Mindbender in hand I couldn't cast due to BB cost and fetching for basics early to play around blood moon.
I also killed a Threads of Disloyalty with Rec Sage. That was fun.
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
I'm inclined to favor it over flickerwisp. It can't hit non-creature permanents but it has flash by itself and it's easier to cast(not that getting WW is the hardest thing). On the other hand, it's much much worse in combat than Flickerwisp. 3 power in the air is a strong clock. 2/2 not so much. I don't know how much of a restriction the attacking/blocking part is for creatures. Seems like an easy requirement to meet in most cases.
Overall the main advantage it has over flickerwisp is not requiring coco to gain instant speed.(which I think is a fairly strong plus)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
I aggree it has some advantages over flickerwisp even though it cannot manage a kalitas before starting combo. And also it has no effect if we find it via collected company at end of turn. Therefore I doubt it will see play.
I'll be so happy the day we will have have a really good creature with removal when it enters the battlefield and cost <= 3... Up to now all creatures of this type have too big drawbacks
Hmm? What are you talking about? As long as something has attacked or blocked that turn you can flicker it with this. It's not "attacking or blocking".
Edit: full spoiler out
Looks like there's a budget replacement for melira or something
I don't see any reason to play this over Melira though in terms of power reasons.
Interesting effect. Don't see how it's any better than Rallier though.
Unless I missed something, those are the only ones I think could contribute anything to the deck.
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
First off, I'll reference Eric Severson's report: https://www.massdrop.com/talk/1285/in-good-company-top-8-at-gp-vancouver because he was on a Brad Rutherford variation (Rutherford loves the main-decked Archangel).
Pre-board, you want a main-decked Scavenging Ooze as a Chord target because that's your leanest way to interact with your opponent combo-ing off, plus with how Abzan Company decks are designed to get some value from graveyard (EWits and Ralliers), Ooze lines up well there. Fiend Hunter is another slot in the main as another Chord target to break up the combo. Sometimes this matchup can be swingy and someone just gets ahead in terms of mana dorks, Company, and Chord and all that - I'd encourage you to look at this matchup as similar to a 4c Saheeli mirror in standard. You cannot play around the combo in the early turns of the game, so you just need to develop and if you lose, that's variance. Post sideboard of course you both get a lot more interaction and it tends to be more about value, hence why you want probably two Tireless Trackers in your 75, not only to draw removal but also because it is a ton of cards to see through clues, but it was a great way to put pressure in the board stalls that you often see in an Company mirror.
If your opponent combos to X life, remember that as long as they don't have the combo in play to do it again, you can kill them with either an Archangel/Feeder combo or having Melira AND Anafenza from your combo in play. This is very unlikely to happen as they can just scry to something at the top of their deck that'll finish you off next turn, but who knows.
In playing the couple of mirror matches I did at GP Vancouver, I found that having the Archangel main gave me a significant advantage over my opponents because with an Ooze and an Angel they were effectively locked out of the game and I was guaranteed to win the "long game", and it could apply pressure that was nearly unstoppable, because you grew your team faster than your opponent can Gavony Township while still holding up mana yourself.
A note: if your opponent is playing Voice of Resurgence, I tended to ignore those until I absolutely had to. The game really is not about Voice of Resurgence in my experience, it was about assembling the combo with protection or disruption your opponents.
Seems really reasonable to me, though without wall I think Chord should probably be something else. Chord is just not a very good card without the occasional ridiculous plays with wall of roots making 2 mana.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Just wanted to share the decklists for the Top8 of a tournament we at MainPhaseMTG recently held (which included an Abzan Company list), as well as some musings on what these results could indicate for the format going forward. Spoiler alert: I say good things about Abzan Company. Check it out here. Let me know what you think!
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
EDIT: I'm stupid, misread the thing, seems pretty bad.
Round 1 vs. Collected Zoo. Not much to see here since his only removal in 2 games was Domri Rade. I gum the ground a little bit and then infinite combo twice. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Blue Moon. In the first game, I just have enough gas to get there. Top decked Gavony Township was also huge to breathe a sigh of relief with a Finks in play and to quicken the clock. In the next game, he couldn't get more than 4 mana and I just SWARMED the board. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. Affinity. Punted the first game really badly in multiple ways. I thought I could do enough Collected Company to find Spike Feeder or cast my Archangel of Thune and Chord of Calling for Spike Feeder if I drew a land in 2 turns. I didn't and lost. In the next game a mull of 4 lands, BoP, and Kataki, War's Wage found me more lands and a Tireless Tracker before I died. 0-2.
Round 4 vs. Ad Nauseam. He got me good in the first game after I gained infinite life, but couldn't kill him until next turn because of Phyrexian Unlife (I had found Melira AND Anafenza to buff my creatures). He wins via Laboratory Maniac, which I figured he'd do, but I still have to make him do it. In the next 2 games, I find Sin Collector and a Tidehollow Sculler in the 3rd game. He mulled to 4 in the 2nd game. I drew all the sideboard cards, or enough to get him. 2-1.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Well with Anafenza combo (not Melira) it does also make infinite deathtouch snakes, so is a slow way to deal infinite damage. Probably too cute but doesn't seem awful. Seems insane in certain matchups like the mirror and Infect. I think it has potential but probably isn't good enough as a general creature.
With Anafenza it's infinite two power snakes which is good, but that should already win you the game with infinite life and infinite scries. Plus if you want that effect I would suggest Blood Artist. The effect is only when you place a counter on a creature which is new wording, but presumably means you have to control the effect doing the putting to get the effect. Otherwise it wouldn't work with its own ability to put a counter on the opponents creature. Which means it probably won't work with infect and won't work with opposing kitchen finks. Basically it's a cool card, but you would want either Blood Artist or Pharika, God of Affliction or Ophiomancer or Intrepid Hero
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
I usually treat it very similar to the normal jund/grixis lists without death's shadow, with some minor differences. I don't want mindbender, and I want more removal. Chameleon collossus has been great.
Playing more non-creatures with 4 chord and 4 coco makes my dick shrink.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Yea, it would have to replace a Chord or two. Would probably only work in a less comboy build.
Way too much trouble for what amounts to a goyf with indestructible and evasion. The sac is super expensive(for modern) and the payoff is ultimately just a beatstick and it's not like we can freely sac something every turn to turn this thing on. I'd rather just play goyf.
In other news, just played against blue moon and I think I gained the most life ever in 1 game from finks without any combo. Drew all 4 Finks, cast all 4 finks, got back a finks with e-wit. 2 Persist triggers for a total of 14 life.
Super weird game 3 in general. Game stalled out until we were both in 7-8 lands. They hardcast Platinum Emperion and a turn later had a Clique. I'm barely surviving off the life gain from all the finks and(at that point) 1 Angel swing. They tapped my board with cryptic and hit me with emperion and dropped me for 2. Dunno why they did that considering it wasn't enough to kill me and they were better served to bounce angel so they could get in with their Clique. I draw and play Courser and my Finks, Angel, and over the course of the next 2-3 turns(Opponent can't attack cause at this point my board is large enough to kill Emperion) my board gets absolutely massive from the life triggers from Courser after ripping multiple fetch lands off the top. After that I naturally drew into Spike Feeder and they conceded to infinite life(Oppo figured I would eventually draw into enough e wits and maelstrom pulses to kill emperion)
During almost the entire lategame I had a Distended Mindbender in hand I couldn't cast due to BB cost and fetching for basics early to play around blood moon.
I also killed a Threads of Disloyalty with Rec Sage. That was fun.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
I'm inclined to favor it over flickerwisp. It can't hit non-creature permanents but it has flash by itself and it's easier to cast(not that getting WW is the hardest thing). On the other hand, it's much much worse in combat than Flickerwisp. 3 power in the air is a strong clock. 2/2 not so much. I don't know how much of a restriction the attacking/blocking part is for creatures. Seems like an easy requirement to meet in most cases.
Overall the main advantage it has over flickerwisp is not requiring coco to gain instant speed.(which I think is a fairly strong plus)
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Hmm? What are you talking about? As long as something has attacked or blocked that turn you can flicker it with this. It's not "attacking or blocking".
Edit: full spoiler out
Looks like there's a budget replacement for melira or something
I don't see any reason to play this over Melira though in terms of power reasons.
Interesting effect. Don't see how it's any better than Rallier though.
Unless I missed something, those are the only ones I think could contribute anything to the deck.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.