Hi guys!
I was pretty set on playing a Coco deck next FNM but have been having difficulty settling on one. I like this game plan and the incidental lifegain (my local FNM meta is crazy aggro). My questions are:
1) what does this version have over say, bant company or retreat versions?
2) Eldritch Evolution. Does it have a place in the deck? I really like main paths, does it replace the cords? Thanks!
1) Modern is famously hyperlinear right now, with decks like infect, dredge and affinity running relatively uninteractive plans to kill you by or before turn four. Conventional wisdom is that it's better to attempt to (or at least be able to) kill your opponent with your own linear strategy than to attempt to answer the wide array of linear strategies in the format. To that end, Bant Knightfall and Abzan Company look like the best coco builds currently since they each have an early combo they can deploy. Of the two, Abzan Company has the advantage of its combo being much more consistent. It also gets to run maindeck Melira and Kitchen Finks as combo pieces, which are much stronger against T1 decks than Retreat to Coralhelm. I'll mention that Bant Spirits is the hot new coco deck -- I haven't gotten to test it out yet, but it looks like a cool option (despite the lack of combo potential).
2) Eldritch Evo is still under testing in this deck. General consensus, I think, has been that if you want to jam it in the stock list, you run a 4/3/2 split of coco, chord, evo, then you toss in the ThuneFeeder combo (since evo helps to find Archangel). If you run 4/4 chord evo it turns into a very different deck. But the evos can help to make the combo a bit more consistent / quicker in some situations. I also like main paths, but definitely not as a chord replacement -- chord is a pillar of the deck. If you choose to run paths, just make sure that your coco targets don't fall below 26 and you should be fine.
About dredge: Yixlid Jailer is the tech, but Anafenza, the Foremost is hate that's more synergistic / has broader applications -- both are good. I usually focus on racing to the combo against them, especially game one. Just be respectful of conflagrate and remember that they often have Leyline of the Void in the sideboard. I also like to board in a Fulminator Mage or two since they're so light on lands, but that's a personal thing haha. Ravenous Trap is good, but you want to run as few spells as possible for coco, so it's awkward. Generally try not to oversideboard, as the combo is your primary wincon here and you don't want to water it down.
I will head to GP Rotterdam next week to grind some sideevents. Melira Company will be my alternative deck for the weekend. The list i want to take with me looks like this:
Please let me know your thoughts on this list. I haven't played this deck in the "big" meta for some time now, only in our local FNM meta where you know what to expect.
Edit: I think the addition of Tireless Tracker is really fancy. I am not sure how good that card is but i think it can really get work done on the beatdown plan.
Looks solid! Agree that you should have some form of removal in the main, probs Fiend Hunter, and I'd run skite in the main over Pontiff all day long. In the sideboard, Yixlid Jailer over Loaming Shaman for dredge hate imo, and I always sleeve up Kataki for the affinity match.
Be sure to check out the metagame before you head out and be prepared for at least the top 8 decks. If you end up having to cut something I'd start with the third Voice.
Hi guys!
I was pretty set on playing a Coco deck next FNM but have been having difficulty settling on one. I like this game plan and the incidental lifegain (my local FNM meta is crazy aggro). My questions are:
1) what does this version have over say, bant company or retreat versions?
2) Eldritch Evolution. Does it have a place in the deck? I really like main paths, does it replace the cords? Thanks!
1) Modern is famously hyperlinear right now, with decks like infect, dredge and affinity running relatively uninteractive plans to kill you by or before turn four. Conventional wisdom is that it's better to attempt to (or at least be able to) kill your opponent with your own linear strategy than to attempt to answer the wide array of linear strategies in the format. To that end, Bant Knightfall and Abzan Company look like the best coco builds currently since they each have an early combo they can deploy. Of the two, Abzan Company has the advantage of its combo being much more consistent. It also gets to run maindeck Melira and Kitchen Finks as combo pieces, which are much stronger against T1 decks than Retreat to Coralhelm. I'll mention that Bant Spirits is the hot new coco deck -- I haven't gotten to test it out yet, but it looks like a cool option (despite the lack of combo potential).
2) Eldritch Evo is still under testing in this deck. General consensus, I think, has been that if you want to jam it in the stock list, you run a 4/3/2 split of coco, chord, evo, then you toss in the ThuneFeeder combo (since evo helps to find Archangel). If you run 4/4 chord evo it turns into a very different deck. But the evos can help to make the combo a bit more consistent / quicker in some situations. I also like main paths, but definitely not as a chord replacement -- chord is a pillar of the deck. If you choose to run paths, just make sure that your coco targets don't fall below 26 and you should be fine.
About dredge: Yixlid Jailer is the tech, but Anafenza, the Foremost is hate that's more synergistic / has broader applications -- both are good. I usually focus on racing to the combo against them, especially game one. Just be respectful of conflagrate and remember that they often have Leyline of the Void in the sideboard. I also like to board in a Fulminator Mage or two since they're so light on lands, but that's a personal thing haha. Ravenous Trap is good, but you want to run as few spells as possible for coco, so it's awkward. Generally try not to oversideboard, as the combo is your primary wincon here and you don't want to water it down.
Thank you for the response! (sorry took so late, didn't have great internet). With all the aggro in my meta, I may go with this build, particularly due to the 3-4x finks
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Derevi Stax
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Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
After some weeks of testing, still not sure what to think of Eldritch Evolution. The 4/3/2 split has been great for me in matchups where comboing off/finding silver bullets matter. My winrate against stuff like Storm and AdNaus (which are more prevalent than BGx in my local meta, actually) has been a lot better, and the Angel combo provides some resiliency in the main deck (Archangel has won me quite a few games on it own against grindy matchups).
Still, this build does feel slightly less built for grinding, and ends up relying a lot more on silver bullets. I do think our silver bullet options are strong enough to make up for it though (Sigarda has been great at ending grindy matches quickly to make up for the less grindy maindeck).
In the meantime, the new Tireless Tracker build seems interesting, I might give it a try next.
Abzan Company got two decks into the Top 64 at GP Dallas this past weekend. The meta isn't great for this deck at the moment, but it is totally capable of adapting. Even given enough time we can amass enough good <3cmc creatures to mold to pretty much any meta better than we can do right now.
Also probably of interest to y'all is that there was a similar list that dropped Company and the Melira combo entirely to go all-in on SpikeFeeder -- it ended up placing at 38th.
Also probably of interest to y'all is that there was a similar list that dropped Company and the Melira combo entirely to go all-in on SpikeFeeder -- it ended up placing at 38th.
Nope, it's definitely not Abzan Company, which is why I only said that it might be of interest to the people here. I don't think we should be discussing the list in depth, but I do think it's relevant to have on peoples' radars as an option since it's similar to our deck and everyone here already owns 90% of the cards for it. I'm just looking at it as news -- this is the first time I've seen a list like this pop up at a tournament, so it's an interesting development.
Nope, it's definitely not Abzan Company, which is why I only said that it might be of interest to the people here. I don't think we should be discussing the list in depth, but I do think it's relevant to have on peoples' radars as an option since it's similar to our deck and everyone here already owns 90% of the cards for it. I'm just looking at it as news -- this is the first time I've seen a list like this pop up at a tournament, so it's an interesting development.
Gotcha, I meant no disrespect. This kind of list was very prevalent at Pro Tour Oath of the Gatewatch before Eldrazi Winter. It's solid, if a bit inconsistent.
What are peoples opinions on me adding Tireless Tracker lists to the OP? They aren't really established at all but are starting to come up... Also we haven't had any results in a while, but maybe updating the sample decks is the right call even though the results were for 34th and 56th place.
I don't think Tracker changes the deck in any significant way, and is just an option to run if you want extra grinding power. You run them in your flex slots and it doesn't change the gameplan much, just gives extra points against GBx and other decks.
I think completely dropping the deck just because of the meta is a little absurd. As always, knowing your deck and the other decks in Modern will take you the longest way, and since the deck does have quite a few flex spots it can be tailored to combat the meta.
We already do good vs Infect, and adding in things like Anafenza, the Foremost will go a long way to combat Dredge. We can do good things against Eldrazi and out-grind BG/x even. Is the deck not in the best position right now? Yes. But it can still adapt and put up results if you try and have a good day.
Yeah, looking at the meta, we're actually decently well positioned against a lot of the top decks -- Infect / Burn are good, Dredge / BGx / Eldrazi / "Suicide" decks are fair, Tron / Jeskai are bad. And we're consistent enough / have a flexible enough toolbox that we can handle a lot of the random T2 / T3 decks in the format. Just build a good sideboard, learn the ins and outs of the deck and be prepared for graveyard hate and you should be fine.
Looking at the metagame got me curious though, it looks like lantern control is moving into T1, which is kinda awesome but totally unexpected for me haha. I haven't played the matchup too many times -- how is it for us? Any advice on it?
Looking at the metagame got me curious though, it looks like lantern control is moving into T1, which is kinda awesome but totally unexpected for me haha. I haven't played the matchup too many times -- how is it for us? Any advice on it?
Lantern control is pretty finicky in that a well timed Surgical Extraction can leave us at the mercy of Ensnaring Bridge. Trying to combo off asap will work, but you can also try to outvalue them as there are more good cards in our deck than they can usually mill in a single turn. If you are lucky, or have Scrys via Viscera Seer then you can look to get some game winning card. Things that are good include:
Against lantern control having Chord and Collected Company help prevent them milling away your necessary cards. They don't care about infinite life but the infinite damage combo is something that they can't stop if they don't have the Surgical Extraction. Keeping bridge off of the battle field should be priority number one. Noble Hierarch is good in this match up. The only blocker they have is spellskite so if you can deal with that then you can kind of grind them out before they can mill you out. Don't under estimate the value of Scavenging ooze in this match up. Keeping their grave yard in check will prevent them from bringing back problem cards with Academy Ruins and other artifacts.
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1) Modern is famously hyperlinear right now, with decks like infect, dredge and affinity running relatively uninteractive plans to kill you by or before turn four. Conventional wisdom is that it's better to attempt to (or at least be able to) kill your opponent with your own linear strategy than to attempt to answer the wide array of linear strategies in the format. To that end, Bant Knightfall and Abzan Company look like the best coco builds currently since they each have an early combo they can deploy. Of the two, Abzan Company has the advantage of its combo being much more consistent. It also gets to run maindeck Melira and Kitchen Finks as combo pieces, which are much stronger against T1 decks than Retreat to Coralhelm. I'll mention that Bant Spirits is the hot new coco deck -- I haven't gotten to test it out yet, but it looks like a cool option (despite the lack of combo potential).
2) Eldritch Evo is still under testing in this deck. General consensus, I think, has been that if you want to jam it in the stock list, you run a 4/3/2 split of coco, chord, evo, then you toss in the ThuneFeeder combo (since evo helps to find Archangel). If you run 4/4 chord evo it turns into a very different deck. But the evos can help to make the combo a bit more consistent / quicker in some situations. I also like main paths, but definitely not as a chord replacement -- chord is a pillar of the deck. If you choose to run paths, just make sure that your coco targets don't fall below 26 and you should be fine.
About dredge: Yixlid Jailer is the tech, but Anafenza, the Foremost is hate that's more synergistic / has broader applications -- both are good. I usually focus on racing to the combo against them, especially game one. Just be respectful of conflagrate and remember that they often have Leyline of the Void in the sideboard. I also like to board in a Fulminator Mage or two since they're so light on lands, but that's a personal thing haha. Ravenous Trap is good, but you want to run as few spells as possible for coco, so it's awkward. Generally try not to oversideboard, as the combo is your primary wincon here and you don't want to water it down.
I will head to GP Rotterdam next week to grind some sideevents. Melira Company will be my alternative deck for the weekend. The list i want to take with me looks like this:
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
4 Windswept heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierach
2 Wall of Roots
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
3 Viscera Seer
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Anafenza the Foremost
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Eternal Witness
1 Orzhov Pontiff
4 Chord of Calling
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Pharika, God of Afflictions
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Voice of resurgence
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Spellskite
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Please let me know your thoughts on this list. I haven't played this deck in the "big" meta for some time now, only in our local FNM meta where you know what to expect.
Edit: I think the addition of Tireless Tracker is really fancy. I am not sure how good that card is but i think it can really get work done on the beatdown plan.
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Be sure to check out the metagame before you head out and be prepared for at least the top 8 decks. If you end up having to cut something I'd start with the third Voice.
Good luck!
2 Jailers in the SB for the dredge MU now. Kataki slipped off my radar so thanks for the reminder. I will add him somehow. Third voice is cut aswell
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Thank you for the response! (sorry took so late, didn't have great internet). With all the aggro in my meta, I may go with this build, particularly due to the 3-4x finks
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
1x Archangel of Thune
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Eternal Witness
1x Fiend Hunter
4x Kitchen Finks
2x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Murderous Redcap
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite
1x Spike Feeder
2x Viscera Seer
2x Wall of Roots
3x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Swamp
2x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
3x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
2x Eldritch Evolution
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Distended Mindbender
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Path to Exile
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
After some weeks of testing, still not sure what to think of Eldritch Evolution. The 4/3/2 split has been great for me in matchups where comboing off/finding silver bullets matter. My winrate against stuff like Storm and AdNaus (which are more prevalent than BGx in my local meta, actually) has been a lot better, and the Angel combo provides some resiliency in the main deck (Archangel has won me quite a few games on it own against grindy matchups).
Still, this build does feel slightly less built for grinding, and ends up relying a lot more on silver bullets. I do think our silver bullet options are strong enough to make up for it though (Sigarda has been great at ending grindy matches quickly to make up for the less grindy maindeck).
In the meantime, the new Tireless Tracker build seems interesting, I might give it a try next.
The list that got 34th place
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
3 Eternal Witness
1 Fiend Hunter
2 Forest
3 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Murderous Redcap
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Viscera Seer
2 Wall of Roots
4 Windswept Heath
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Path to Exile
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3 Tidehollow Sculler
The list that got 56th place
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
3 Eternal Witness
1 Fiend Hunter
3 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Marsh Flats
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Murderous Redcap
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Viscera Seer
1 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wall of Roots
4 Windswept Heath
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sin Collector
2 Thoughtseize
2 Tireless Tracker
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Abzan Chord
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
4 Wall of Roots
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Spike Feede
4 Archangel of Thune
3 Path to Exile
4 Chord of Calling
4 Lingering Souls
1 Painful Truths
2 Forest
4 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Thoughtseize
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
1 Painful Truths
2 Worship
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
This isn't really "Abzan Company" at all. There's a thread for that deck, and this isn't it.
Gotcha, I meant no disrespect. This kind of list was very prevalent at Pro Tour Oath of the Gatewatch before Eldrazi Winter. It's solid, if a bit inconsistent.
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
We already do good vs Infect, and adding in things like Anafenza, the Foremost will go a long way to combat Dredge. We can do good things against Eldrazi and out-grind BG/x even. Is the deck not in the best position right now? Yes. But it can still adapt and put up results if you try and have a good day.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Looking at the metagame got me curious though, it looks like lantern control is moving into T1, which is kinda awesome but totally unexpected for me haha. I haven't played the matchup too many times -- how is it for us? Any advice on it?
- Infinite damage combo
- Eternal Witness to get back basically anything
- Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse
- Horizon Canopy can draw if they can't mill in response
- Qasali Pridemage or Reclamation Sage kills important things
- Noble Hierarch can attack under a Bridge
- Kataki, War's Wage or Stony Silence
- Grand Abolisher can cause them to tap out on their turns giving you more room to play
- Phyrexian Revoker is a Pithing Needle
and having Spellskite backup to protect your creatures is always a good idea
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge