Won last night's Thursday Modern with this deck in a weird turn of events. I lost to Burn round 1, beat the mirror round 2, got paired up round 3 and won vs RUG midrange, then paired up again in round 4 vs UWR Control (No Nihiri's) and won to win the night.
I haven't looked through the fullspoiler yet, but I can't WAIT until the new Selfless Soul is legal and we don't have to worry about Anger of the Gods or Supreme Verdict anymore. I had taken the Burrenton Forge-Tenders out of my board and just been plowing through Angers for the last week... it was like playing on hardmode.
Won last night's Thursday Modern with this deck in a weird turn of events. I lost to Burn round 1, beat the mirror round 2, got paired up round 3 and won vs RUG midrange, then paired up again in round 4 vs UWR Control (No Nihiri's) and won to win the night.
I haven't looked through the fullspoiler yet, but I can't WAIT until the new Selfless Soul is legal and we don't have to worry about Anger of the Gods or Supreme Verdict anymore. I had taken the Burrenton Forge-Tenders out of my board and just been plowing through Angers for the last week... it was like playing on hardmode.
I hope selfless soul is good, but I feel like lighting bolt from Anger Decks and Jeskai control is going to kill this at end of turn then allow board wipe, easier than with BFT. It's also slightly harder to chord for. I run into this problem with dauntless escort, but someone was saying earlier that they have been succeeding with dauntless.. my ***** always gets bolted then I get screwed. BFT has always been the old reliable, and have had exactly 4 to chord to save team very often where any more cost I could not have paid.
Won last night's Thursday Modern with this deck in a weird turn of events. I lost to Burn round 1, beat the mirror round 2, got paired up round 3 and won vs RUG midrange, then paired up again in round 4 vs UWR Control (No Nihiri's) and won to win the night.
I haven't looked through the fullspoiler yet, but I can't WAIT until the new Selfless Soul is legal and we don't have to worry about Anger of the Gods or Supreme Verdict anymore. I had taken the Burrenton Forge-Tenders out of my board and just been plowing through Angers for the last week... it was like playing on hardmode.
I hope selfless soul is good, but I feel like lighting bolt from Anger Decks and Jeskai control is going to kill this at end of turn then allow board wipe, easier than with BFT. It's also slightly harder to chord for. I run into this problem with dauntless escort, but someone was saying earlier that they have been succeeding with dauntless.. my ***** always gets bolted then I get screwed. BFT has always been the old reliable, and have had exactly 4 to chord to save team very often where any more cost I could not have paid.
Exactly. Selfless Soul is nice and might very well be playable, but I think people are underestimating Forgetender's pro-red. It can block any red creature forever, including Raging Ravine (and Jund has no way to remove it, except for Slaughter Pact), it is immune to any red spot removal which any deck that plays Anger will be playing as well, etc. Cast a Forgetender early and you're good against (one) Anger for the rest of the game, basically. It's definitely worse against white wraths, but those are way less worse than Anger for us.
Lots of interesting games. Reveillark was a huge bomb each time I played it. Knight did some work stablizing against Burn by fetching out my Vault. Overall liked the build, but sort of missed having mainboard artifact/enchantment removal.
Won last night's Thursday Modern with this deck in a weird turn of events. I lost to Burn round 1, beat the mirror round 2, got paired up round 3 and won vs RUG midrange, then paired up again in round 4 vs UWR Control (No Nihiri's) and won to win the night.
I haven't looked through the fullspoiler yet, but I can't WAIT until the new Selfless Soul is legal and we don't have to worry about Anger of the Gods or Supreme Verdict anymore. I had taken the Burrenton Forge-Tenders out of my board and just been plowing through Angers for the last week... it was like playing on hardmode.
I hope selfless soul is good, but I feel like lighting bolt from Anger Decks and Jeskai control is going to kill this at end of turn then allow board wipe, easier than with BFT. It's also slightly harder to chord for. I run into this problem with dauntless escort, but someone was saying earlier that they have been succeeding with dauntless.. my ***** always gets bolted then I get screwed. BFT has always been the old reliable, and have had exactly 4 to chord to save team very often where any more cost I could not have paid.
Exactly. Selfless Soul is nice and might very well be playable, but I think people are underestimating Forgetender's pro-red. It can block any red creature forever, including Raging Ravine (and Jund has no way to remove it, except for Slaughter Pact), it is immune to any red spot removal which any deck that plays Anger will be playing as well, etc. Cast a Forgetender early and you're good against (one) Anger for the rest of the game, basically. It's definitely worse against white wraths, but those are way less worse than Anger for us.
Really happy to hear that one Abzan Company won WMCQ. Congradulation to you! How many players attend to your WMCQ?
Btw, so far, I have been running only 2 Gavony. What do you think guys, shoud I add 1 more?
Hello all, am a new modern player here and Abzan Company is the first deck that I've picked up. Am thoroughly enjoying learning the deck, although it's obviously not the easiest deck to pick up to learn the format.
I'm playing a pretty stock list and my local meta is pretty diverse, with a mixture of Zoo (regular and Death's Shadow), Infect, Jeskai Nahiri, Jund, Abzan and a few rogue decks. What I'm seeking advice on is advice on sequencing of cardsin some of these matchups, as well as advice on what my priority is in each of them and finally what should I be mulliganing towards?
Any help would be appreciated, though more comprehensive the better!
Sequencing? There are tons of lines to some hands, and it varies based on what your opponent is doing. Best bet is to just practice your deck! Make sure you know all the targets you can chord into by heart.
General rule of thumb for mulliganing: you want to see 2ish land with a mana-dork. T1 Birds/Hierarch is one of the strongest plays for the deck and is about the only sequence that doesn't really change regardless of what you are up against.
Hello all, am a new modern player here and Abzan Company is the first deck that I've picked up. Am thoroughly enjoying learning the deck, although it's obviously not the easiest deck to pick up to learn the format.
I'm playing a pretty stock list and my local meta is pretty diverse, with a mixture of Zoo (regular and Death's Shadow), Infect, Jeskai Nahiri, Jund, Abzan and a few rogue decks. What I'm seeking advice on is advice on sequencing of cardsin some of these matchups, as well as advice on what my priority is in each of them and finally what should I be mulliganing towards?
Any help would be appreciated, though more comprehensive the better!
Sequencing? There are tons of lines to some hands, and it varies based on what your opponent is doing. Best bet is to just practice your deck! Make sure you know all the targets you can chord into by heart.
General rule of thumb for mulliganing: you want to see 2ish land with a mana-dork. T1 Birds/Hierarch is one of the strongest plays for the deck and is about the only sequence that doesn't really change regardless of what you are up against.
beyond 2-3 lands and a birds if you see that snap keep mostly? doesnt matter what else there is?
This provides 19 colored sources of mana, allowing 4 slots for Gavony Township or another colorless utility land. Assuming fetches "produce" any of our colors thanks to shocks, 17 produce G, 14 produce W, and 11 produce B. This should enable the possibility of Chord at 1 without convoke on turn 4, Anafenza 2.0 on turn 2, and Redcap o turn 4 without too much luck needed.
Now, while that configuration may be old news to some, I'd like to bring attention to the option for a 4th colorless utility land. A 4th Gavony seems kinda overkill, but a singleton land is hard to justify. I'm going to test Mouth of Ronom as a singleton, but I'd be open to more suggestions.
I don't really know enough about Hypergeometric Distribution, but I'm assuming you also did it for needing G on turn 1? Might that affect the turn 2 and turn 4 especially?
How about Cathedral of War? Seems fine since it makes our Creatures bigger without costing us anything. Maybe that new land that lets each player draw/discard? Seems fine since we have witness value and it digs us deeper. Obviously not great against some decks, but i think it's playable.
I'd question whether the 1 of marsh flats is right. I used that when I didn't have a 4th verdant, and it always felt wrong to draw for me. We want to get basic forests very often.
Also, the third forest over the third horizon canopy seems questionable--but I can see why people feel iffy about 3 canopies.
I have seen only minor discussion of sideboarding against zoo in this thread. Particularly, how are people handling deaths shadow zoo? I don't think this matchup is very good for us (barring a natural spellskite draw). They are faster on combo kill and their plan b is better than ours. Furthermore, it is making up a sizable chunk of the meta. Does anyone have any insight about successful play patterns against this deck?
I have seen only minor discussion of sideboarding against zoo in this thread. Particularly, how are people handling deaths shadow zoo? I don't think this matchup is very good for us (barring a natural spellskite draw). They are faster on combo kill and their plan b is better than ours. Furthermore, it is making up a sizable chunk of the meta. Does anyone have any insight about successful play patterns against this deck?
They are faster . I haven't had a problem yet because Path to Exile and Spellskite just always stops them, they can't even get a land from path.. maybe you want 4 of them. Abrupt decay. Tidehollows and BFT together. Since you know they are faster than you at your fastest then maybe slow down a little to stop them with necessary spells, they are killing themselves so I think the way I've been winning is by focusing on not dying rather than trying to force my 'slower' combo. Could end up just pinging them to win after you timely removal, things start happening in your favor after you see their hand once with a Tidehollow and you know what game to play a few turns. Keep Ewits though, they will discard your ***** for sure.
Alright so question for everyone. Just moved to a new place and the meta at the local store is pure hell. Lantern, eggs, ad nauseum. These people love this stuff. So I guess my questions is how do I go about building my sideboard for this?
I have seen only minor discussion of sideboarding against zoo in this thread. Particularly, how are people handling deaths shadow zoo? I don't think this matchup is very good for us (barring a natural spellskite draw). They are faster on combo kill and their plan b is better than ours. Furthermore, it is making up a sizable chunk of the meta. Does anyone have any insight about successful play patterns against this deck?
They are faster . I haven't had a problem yet because Path to Exile and Spellskite just always stops them, they can't even get a land from path.. maybe you want 4 of them. Abrupt decay. Tidehollows and BFT together. Since you know they are faster than you at your fastest then maybe slow down a little to stop them with necessary spells, they are killing themselves so I think the way I've been winning is by focusing on not dying rather than trying to force my 'slower' combo. Could end up just pinging them to win after you timely removal, things start happening in your favor after you see their hand once with a Tidehollow and you know what game to play a few turns. Keep Ewits though, they will discard your ***** for sure.
Thanks for the advice. I think I will likely switch my board to 3 path, 3 decay, 3 sculler, 1 forgetender. The meta around my neck of the woods has been either very aggressive or jund. So, decay and path are both very good. I have also been noticing that there is a lot of flex in my current board, so this is good.
In a degenerate combo heavy meta, especially one that has both eggs and ad nauseam, I would main deck an eidolon of rhetoric.
I would also try playing 3-4 artifact destruction effects in your 75 -- 1 rec sage/1 pridemage main, and 2 more rec sages in the board or something. Sometimes overloading on 2-for-1s that present a clock can shut them down.
I'd try 1 sin collector just for ad nauseam, that card wrecks them (said as an ad nauseam player, it can sometimes completely shut us down if you take the ad nauseam and we don't have any cantrips left).
That meta may be bad enough to run a 4 thoughtseize package in the board; I have tried that and it's very good vs. combo decks, often better than the sculler type stuff--sculler is particularly really bad against lantern because they can just abrupt decay it and get their card back, letting you hold it for them for a while
I don't really know enough about Hypergeometric Distribution, but I'm assuming you also did it for needing G on turn 1? Might that affect the turn 2 and turn 4 especially?
G or any other color on T1 only suggests 7 to 8 sources. In general, the more of a particular color you need, the more sources for that color you'll need regardless of what turn it is (with the first notable exception being ? on T1 vs ?? on T8).
@Pokken: As for the Verdant Catacombs/Marsh Flats split, if the basic Swamp was ran in this configuration over the 2nd Overgrown Tomb (which will drop the G count to 16) I would recommend the going 4x Verdant Catacombs to have even access to both basics. However, and I honestly have no clue how significant of an impact this would make (would need to compare 10 and 11 basic G sources for G on T1), if going 3 forests 1 plains, then having 1 additional fetch to grab the basic plains seems like it would have more of an impact over the additional fetch to grab a basic Forest.
I've had trouble with Burn. I often read that we have an intrinsically favorable matchup because of MD life gain, but I haven't experienced consistent success against the deck and looking back though the threads I see a lot of 0-2s listed in tournament reports. I'm mainly interesting in improving my game one approach since the post-board MU is so different.
For those of you who kill Burn (and presuming a standard mainboard build):
1. Any tactical tips? I often find myself just throwing out whatever creatures I've drawn hoping to apply distracting pressure and requiring opponent to use removal/direct damage rather than hitting me. This doesn't seem like a smart approach to a control role but I'm not sure what else to do.
2. Do you mull aggressively into Finks in addition to 2 land/1 dork?
3. Do you open with the standard Noble/Bird (I do, anticipating it will either accelerate me or eat damage that would otherwise burn my face)?
4. For those who don't keep BFT sideboard - how often do you wish you had it?
5. Anything else obvious I've missed?
Thanks for any advice!
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I haven't looked through the fullspoiler yet, but I can't WAIT until the new Selfless Soul is legal and we don't have to worry about Anger of the Gods or Supreme Verdict anymore. I had taken the Burrenton Forge-Tenders out of my board and just been plowing through Angers for the last week... it was like playing on hardmode.
On another topic, I'll leave you guys with this.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I hope selfless soul is good, but I feel like lighting bolt from Anger Decks and Jeskai control is going to kill this at end of turn then allow board wipe, easier than with BFT. It's also slightly harder to chord for. I run into this problem with dauntless escort, but someone was saying earlier that they have been succeeding with dauntless.. my ***** always gets bolted then I get screwed. BFT has always been the old reliable, and have had exactly 4 to chord to save team very often where any more cost I could not have paid.
Exactly. Selfless Soul is nice and might very well be playable, but I think people are underestimating Forgetender's pro-red. It can block any red creature forever, including Raging Ravine (and Jund has no way to remove it, except for Slaughter Pact), it is immune to any red spot removal which any deck that plays Anger will be playing as well, etc. Cast a Forgetender early and you're good against (one) Anger for the rest of the game, basically. It's definitely worse against white wraths, but those are way less worse than Anger for us.
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Viscera Seer
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Spellskite
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wall of Roots
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Spike Feeder
3 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Reveillark
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Lands (23)
1 Godless Shrine
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Gavony Township
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
3 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Path to Exile
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Intrepid Hero
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Sin Collector
2 Fracturing Gust
I played against:
Jund Mindrange (2-0)
Esper Thopter Gifts (2-1)
Orzhov Eldrazi (2-0)
Boros Burn (2-1)
Lots of interesting games. Reveillark was a huge bomb each time I played it. Knight did some work stablizing against Burn by fetching out my Vault. Overall liked the build, but sort of missed having mainboard artifact/enchantment removal.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Selfless soul = Selfless spirit
Btw, so far, I have been running only 2 Gavony. What do you think guys, shoud I add 1 more?
Sequencing? There are tons of lines to some hands, and it varies based on what your opponent is doing. Best bet is to just practice your deck! Make sure you know all the targets you can chord into by heart.
General rule of thumb for mulliganing: you want to see 2ish land with a mana-dork. T1 Birds/Hierarch is one of the strongest plays for the deck and is about the only sequence that doesn't really change regardless of what you are up against.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
beyond 2-3 lands and a birds if you see that snap keep mostly? doesnt matter what else there is?
Assuming WW needed to be available by turn 2, GGG needed to be available by turn 4, and BB needed to be available by turn 4:
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
3 Forest
1 Plain
2 Horizon Canopy
This provides 19 colored sources of mana, allowing 4 slots for Gavony Township or another colorless utility land. Assuming fetches "produce" any of our colors thanks to shocks, 17 produce G, 14 produce W, and 11 produce B. This should enable the possibility of Chord at 1 without convoke on turn 4, Anafenza 2.0 on turn 2, and Redcap o turn 4 without too much luck needed.
Now, while that configuration may be old news to some, I'd like to bring attention to the option for a 4th colorless utility land. A 4th Gavony seems kinda overkill, but a singleton land is hard to justify. I'm going to test Mouth of Ronom as a singleton, but I'd be open to more suggestions.
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
Other land that comes to mind would be Vault of the Archangel
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Also, the third forest over the third horizon canopy seems questionable--but I can see why people feel iffy about 3 canopies.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
They are faster . I haven't had a problem yet because Path to Exile and Spellskite just always stops them, they can't even get a land from path.. maybe you want 4 of them. Abrupt decay. Tidehollows and BFT together. Since you know they are faster than you at your fastest then maybe slow down a little to stop them with necessary spells, they are killing themselves so I think the way I've been winning is by focusing on not dying rather than trying to force my 'slower' combo. Could end up just pinging them to win after you timely removal, things start happening in your favor after you see their hand once with a Tidehollow and you know what game to play a few turns. Keep Ewits though, they will discard your ***** for sure.
Thanks for the advice. I think I will likely switch my board to 3 path, 3 decay, 3 sculler, 1 forgetender. The meta around my neck of the woods has been either very aggressive or jund. So, decay and path are both very good. I have also been noticing that there is a lot of flex in my current board, so this is good.
I would also try playing 3-4 artifact destruction effects in your 75 -- 1 rec sage/1 pridemage main, and 2 more rec sages in the board or something. Sometimes overloading on 2-for-1s that present a clock can shut them down.
I'd try 1 sin collector just for ad nauseam, that card wrecks them (said as an ad nauseam player, it can sometimes completely shut us down if you take the ad nauseam and we don't have any cantrips left).
That meta may be bad enough to run a 4 thoughtseize package in the board; I have tried that and it's very good vs. combo decks, often better than the sculler type stuff--sculler is particularly really bad against lantern because they can just abrupt decay it and get their card back, letting you hold it for them for a while
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
G or any other color on T1 only suggests 7 to 8 sources. In general, the more of a particular color you need, the more sources for that color you'll need regardless of what turn it is (with the first notable exception being ? on T1 vs ?? on T8).
@Pokken: As for the Verdant Catacombs/Marsh Flats split, if the basic Swamp was ran in this configuration over the 2nd Overgrown Tomb (which will drop the G count to 16) I would recommend the going 4x Verdant Catacombs to have even access to both basics. However, and I honestly have no clue how significant of an impact this would make (would need to compare 10 and 11 basic G sources for G on T1), if going 3 forests 1 plains, then having 1 additional fetch to grab the basic plains seems like it would have more of an impact over the additional fetch to grab a basic Forest.
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
For those of you who kill Burn (and presuming a standard mainboard build):
1. Any tactical tips? I often find myself just throwing out whatever creatures I've drawn hoping to apply distracting pressure and requiring opponent to use removal/direct damage rather than hitting me. This doesn't seem like a smart approach to a control role but I'm not sure what else to do.
2. Do you mull aggressively into Finks in addition to 2 land/1 dork?
3. Do you open with the standard Noble/Bird (I do, anticipating it will either accelerate me or eat damage that would otherwise burn my face)?
4. For those who don't keep BFT sideboard - how often do you wish you had it?
5. Anything else obvious I've missed?
Thanks for any advice!