Scooze won him a game vs G/R Eldrazi since he can exile the Returns, it's pretty lackluster against u/w though, you make it a 6/6 just to get it displaced and returned as a 2/2.
Thunefeeder side is a nice tech I honestly don't know if it's worth it though. Something I want to avoid is to dedicate too much thought to the eldrazi matchup and then get wrecked by something like UWR control or Griselbrand for example because i had to make room in the sideboard and decided to remove the sin collector/thoughtseizes.
I played yesterday on cockatrice against a dude playing coco that sustained that he could chord for 3 having three lands, viscera seer and voice in play by sacrificing voice and tapping the token. He was very stubborn and mentioned this phrase in the primer:
You can sacrificed a tapped Voice of Resurgence and use the new token for Convoke mana with Chord of Calling. Opponent's will often miscount this extra mana you have avaliable.
Maybe the sentence is a bit confusing (and still re-reading it not that much confusing). I guess what is meant is that - if voice is somehow tapped (eg combat) you can sac it before chording.
Recently purchased the deck, I'm just having trouble coming up with the SD.
My meta has a lot of favorable match ups, a ton of burn for instance. My troubles are siding VS Blue Moon and KiKi-Chord. And what do people usually put in and take out.
Recently purchased the deck, I'm just having trouble coming up with the SD.
My meta has a lot of favorable match ups, a ton of burn for instance. My troubles are siding VS Blue Moon and KiKi-Chord. And what do people usually put in and take out.
Thanks in advance
A sideboarding cheat sheet would be very helpful if folks had one. Lots of new Abzan Coco players (including myself) picking up the deck could use the tutorial.
I'm pretty bummed out that voice of resurgence are so bad against the u/w eldrazi version, he was great for me against all of the other versions (not counting g/r which should be disastrous) but a 2/2 for 2 which gets the tokens blinked away is basically useless.
I will be dropping the Voice for now and try to include a third spellskite + Fiend Hunter/Scavenging Ooze MD. I'm going to test this list:
My list before used to run
MD
+2 Voice of Resurgence, -1 Spellskite -1 Scavenging Ooze
SB
+1 Path, +1 Sin Collector, +1 Scavenging Ooze , -1 Decay -2 Intrepid Hero
I am considering adding a third Gavony over an Overgrown Tomb since we do run very little black but I've tried the 22 Lands 3 Gavony before and got mana screwed a few times too often so I went back to 2.
The SB has room for improvement, I'd like to include a 4th PTE and a Big Game Hunter/3rd Intrepid Hero but I can't bring myself to take out anything else. As of recently I would have taken out the Eidolon of Rhethoric but he single handedly won me a game vs Scapeshift Bring to Light (BTL doesn't work, he had 2 in hand to combo off) and Ad Nauseam in the last tournament I attended so I'm a bit skeptic.
Burrenton is still needed imo, he gets sideboarded in regularly for me, affinity/griselbrand/burn/jund/tron/anything with bolts, him being 1cc even makes him decent against grishoalbrand, protecting you from pyroclasm/lava axe and helping you chord quickly.
I like our matchup against Affinity but I don't think taking the Kataki out is a good idea with affinity being such a large part of the meta right now. I'll consider it though.
With no Voice the deck is weaker to UWx control imo, the best plan post SB I feel is Thoughtseize into Witness + Thoughtseize hopefully with a dork to t3, and then playing around their disrupted hand if possible, Ooze, Eidolon and Gavony are also good.
I'm been having a lot of success with a sideboard of Ghostly Prison. Depending on the Eldrazi deck, I've had games where it has made their deck right down laughable. With Eye of Ugin not producing mana, I've had games where they can't even attack with only one other land in play. Birds and Hierarch can drop it on turn two. Ghostly prison can be good against a few other match ups like Kiki-Chord and Zoo decks. It at least buys enough time to combo out.
I'm been having a lot of success with a sideboard of Ghostly Prison. Depending on the Eldrazi deck, I've had games where it has made their deck right down laughable. With Eye of Ugin not producing mana, I've had games where they can't even attack with only one other land in play. Birds and Hierarch can drop it on turn two. Ghostly prison can be good against a few other match ups like Kiki-Chord and Zoo decks. It at least buys enough time to combo out.
Anyway, just what I have found in playtesting.
The new UW lists aren't as susceptible to it but yeah, it can slow them down a bit.
Hi everyone, I'm slowly working on building this deck as my introduction to modern. I borrowed a friend's pod deck for several rounds a while ago, and it was a ton of fun. Luckily, this deck seems to be similar to pod in a lot of ways.
One thing that I don't understand, though, is the choice between 2-4 Noble Hierarchs. Is there a major drawback to running 4? Is 2 not enough? I'm curious to hear the reasoning behind the choice.
The same goes for Viscera Seer and running 3 versus 4. I had always assumed that maxing on combo pieces was the correct choice; why is that different here?
Also, has the Archangel + spike feeder combo fallen out of favor as a backup?
Hi everyone, I'm slowly working on building this deck as my introduction to modern. I borrowed a friend's pod deck for several rounds a while ago, and it was a ton of fun. Luckily, this deck seems to be similar to pod in a lot of ways.
One thing that I don't understand, though, is the choice between 2-4 Noble Hierarchs. Is there a major drawback to running 4? Is 2 not enough? I'm curious to hear the reasoning behind the choice.
The same goes for Viscera Seer and running 3 versus 4. I had always assumed that maxing on combo pieces was the correct choice; why is that different here?
Also, has the Archangel + spike feeder combo fallen out of favor as a backup?
I think most of the decisions are:
22-23 lands, 2-3 Noble Hierarchs, 1-2 Wall of Roots (I play 22/3/1) If you cut manadorks you have to add a land. The more 3-drops (finks and ewit) you have, you want more Nobles. The more 2-drops (voice and scooze), you want Wall.
3-4 Kitchen Finks, 3-4 Eternal Witness (I play 4/3) Maintain the powerlevel of Collected Company. You need to consistently hit real cards, manadorks don't count. Situational bullets are also less of a hit, as you can't count them as useful all the times.
2-3 Viscera Seer (I play 3, please never play 4) Viscera Seer is pretty bad outside of the combo.
Always 2/2 Anafenza and Melira.
Is a 1 wall /2 Noble /4 birds dork package enough for this build?
With all the various agro decks in my meta, I chose to main deck Pontiff. Is he the card I want, or is there a better main deck anti agro card I could use.
There are enough grave yard based deck in my meta to warrant sideboard hate for most decks. I main decked the angle / feeder combo to help with this. Would this be better in the side?
What can I add to the side board to help with decks like Living ends?
Is a 1 wall /2 Noble /4 birds dork package enough for this build?
With all the various agro decks in my meta, I chose to main deck Pontiff. Is he the card I want, or is there a better main deck anti agro card I could use.
There are enough grave yard based deck in my meta to warrant sideboard hate for most decks. I main decked the angle / feeder combo to help with this. Would this be better in the side?
What can I add to the side board to help with decks like Living ends?
If you are really worried about Living end, Evolutionary Leap isn't a bad place to start. What I found to be most effective is getting the combo either online or split between GY and in play (with a way to sacrifice it down in response to Living End). Usually they are stuck in the awkward position where getting Living End gives me infinite life/damage and they are essentially screwed. Scooze also helps in this matchup by eating their dudes.
If you are really worried about Living end, Evolutionary Leap isn't a bad place to start. What I found to be most effective is getting the combo either online or split between GY and in play (with a way to sacrifice it down in response to Living End). Usually they are stuck in the awkward position where getting Living End gives me infinite life/damage and they are essentially screwed. Scooze also helps in this matchup by eating their dudes.
Evolutionary Leap never even crossed my mind. That looks like an amazing card for the match up. I will def have to put 1-2 in the side. Are there other match ups that it is good in?
Currently building this deck. Please bare with me regarding these questions:
1. How important is Voice of Resurgence in this deck? Are there budget options? What is the maximum # you would need?
2. Fulminator Mage - Played as 4 of to deal with eldrazi? And tron after bans? Or 2-3 is enough?
3. Reasons for Archangel of Thune?
4. Reasons for Linvala?
Voice are okay. Won't hurt, but emphasizing combo, mana dorks, and a couple tools is the way most are going. That is other things in place of voice to focus the mainboard.
If you have 1-2 Liliana Heretical healer in the 75, you can get away with 1-3 Fulminator. Depends on your meta whether Tron and Eldrazi are a thing. Not in my meta.
Graveyard hate kills our Melira infinite combo. Archangel of Thune and Spike Feeder are an infinte life combo that avoids the graveyard. Good to put in G2.
Linvala is great vs the mirror, Affinity, etc. Anyone who uses activated abilities such as Scavenging ooze Or sac outlets are nixed by her. Plus she's a big flying body.
Not sure of Kiki chord so someone else can answer.
Angel/spike is boarded in vs graveyard hate and lightning bolts.
Linvala has some use vs UW Eldrazi.
Maindeck Pontiff is also fine in a UW Eldrazi meta
Abzan coco is more focused on a combo win than kiki-Chord. That deck is a midrange deck with an 'oops I win' kinda combo; it's more of a value/toolbox deck.
Abzan coco is generally built and played as a creature-based combo deck that has a solid midrange game, and it's creatures tend to be smaller as well - outside of maybe voice tokens, kitchen Fink's is the biggest creature. Gavony township is a big part of the decks midrange plan.
Sword of Light and Shadow in the SB vs Grindy decks? Im having a hard time dealing with removals and Wrath of Gods. I don't want to dedicated more than 1-2 SB space for them
@Stuhl
Yeah two paths do seem good to MD in the meta right now I still prefer to stick with the currrent MD and not make my CoCo’s worse G1.
For the SB I prefer Path over Decay and would include a 4th Path before a 3rd Decay to be honest, Path is the best removal by far at the moment. It kills any Eldrazi for 1, is much superior against Kiki Chord/Mirror and gives us game against Jund where having a path in hand can easily be crucial to take down their Khalitas/Scavenging Ooze/Olivia Voldaren. On the other hand it’s worse against the hate we face, Bogles and other fringe strategies like Storm though I prefer to be more equipped against the former since I do run 3 Skites for Bogles (I honestly hate this matchup though, I don’t know if it’s just bad luck but everytime I play Bogles they have insane hands with Rest in Peace/Suppression Field/Gaddock Teeg + some Paths)
I play against Grishoalbrand fairly regularly since my brother owns the deck and Sin Collector is a bit too slow here, it also doesn’t take Snapcasters/Resto Angels which can easily be the most annoying cards when facing UWx imo. I do like a 1-of Sin Collector as the fourth discard since it does pressure the board and is a decent 2 for 1. The 4 Eternal Witness MD also entice me to use the Thoughtseize over other discard.
Dauntless Escort might actually be better now that bolts are seeing less play, I’m unsure if he is worth it though, 3cc is quite a bit.
By the way, after testing against U/W Eldrazi I found that Intrepid Hero is unfortunately too slow against Eldrazis good hands, I cast him t2 on the draw once just to get my face smashed in on his t3. I also tested Big Game Hunter and liked him the most, 2/3 BGH alongside 4 paths and 1/2 decay help out a lot and make the path your Reality Smasher, Madness in BGH, more likely. The third Spellskite was actually very useful, protecting my combo and blocking the creatures I do not manage to path/decay/FH/BGH – i.e. tokens, eldrazi displacer, untriggered Mimics and 3/3 Endless Ones. I think the efficient removal suite combined with Skites/Value to stall until you manage to combo is our best way to handle this matchup. One of the games I found myself with a decent board (2-3 creatures), 1 Path/1 BGH/1 Decay and a CoCo in hand, I passed the turn with 4 mana and never felt as safe against Eldrazi haha. Unfortunately we can’t do much against their t1 mimics t2 thought-knot t3 smasher hands but they’re far more likely to have a slower hand.
Regarding the Living End matchup, I find that with 3 Viscera Seer main and value creatures we are quite favoured,especially if you have MD Voices. Either get an early seer on the battlefield or even better leave chord for 1 up while you beatdown/develop the board. If he tries to LE then chord for seer with LE on the stack, sac everything and scry for the combo, then get your creatures back. the only blowout is if he has a timely Faerie Macabre in hand. Post-SB Scavenging Ooze is ok, a bit slow, Eidolon of Rhethoric is really good especially behind a Spellskite, and discard can also be rewarding depending on your opponents hand.
Thunefeeder side is a nice tech I honestly don't know if it's worth it though. Something I want to avoid is to dedicate too much thought to the eldrazi matchup and then get wrecked by something like UWR control or Griselbrand for example because i had to make room in the sideboard and decided to remove the sin collector/thoughtseizes.
Just one thing about the primer.
I played yesterday on cockatrice against a dude playing coco that sustained that he could chord for 3 having three lands, viscera seer and voice in play by sacrificing voice and tapping the token. He was very stubborn and mentioned this phrase in the primer:
Maybe the sentence is a bit confusing (and still re-reading it not that much confusing). I guess what is meant is that - if voice is somehow tapped (eg combat) you can sac it before chording.
I double-checked the point on the ruling section. Link: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/673719-ruling-question-regarding-chord-of-calling-and
Nice day to all
Recently purchased the deck, I'm just having trouble coming up with the SD.
My meta has a lot of favorable match ups, a ton of burn for instance. My troubles are siding VS Blue Moon and KiKi-Chord. And what do people usually put in and take out.
Thanks in advance
A sideboarding cheat sheet would be very helpful if folks had one. Lots of new Abzan Coco players (including myself) picking up the deck could use the tutorial.
I will be dropping the Voice for now and try to include a third spellskite + Fiend Hunter/Scavenging Ooze MD. I'm going to test this list:
4x Windswept Heath
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Temple Garden
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Godless Shrine
3x Horizon Canopy
2x Gavony Township
2x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Plains
Creatures (30)
Dorks (9)
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
2x Wall of Roots
4x Kitchen Finks
3x Viscera Seer
2x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Murderous Redcap
Utillity (9)
4x Eternal Witness
3x Spellskite
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Fiend Hunter
Instant (8)
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
1x Burrenton, Forge-Tender
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Orzhov Pontiff
3x Path to Exile
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Thoughtseize
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Intrepid Hero
1x Eidolon of Rhethoric
My list before used to run
MD
+2 Voice of Resurgence, -1 Spellskite -1 Scavenging Ooze
SB
+1 Path, +1 Sin Collector, +1 Scavenging Ooze , -1 Decay -2 Intrepid Hero
I am considering adding a third Gavony over an Overgrown Tomb since we do run very little black but I've tried the 22 Lands 3 Gavony before and got mana screwed a few times too often so I went back to 2.
The SB has room for improvement, I'd like to include a 4th PTE and a Big Game Hunter/3rd Intrepid Hero but I can't bring myself to take out anything else. As of recently I would have taken out the Eidolon of Rhethoric but he single handedly won me a game vs Scapeshift Bring to Light (BTL doesn't work, he had 2 in hand to combo off) and Ad Nauseam in the last tournament I attended so I'm a bit skeptic.
Burrenton is still needed imo, he gets sideboarded in regularly for me, affinity/griselbrand/burn/jund/tron/anything with bolts, him being 1cc even makes him decent against grishoalbrand, protecting you from pyroclasm/lava axe and helping you chord quickly.
I like our matchup against Affinity but I don't think taking the Kataki out is a good idea with affinity being such a large part of the meta right now. I'll consider it though.
With no Voice the deck is weaker to UWx control imo, the best plan post SB I feel is Thoughtseize into Witness + Thoughtseize hopefully with a dork to t3, and then playing around their disrupted hand if possible, Ooze, Eidolon and Gavony are also good.
Anyway, just what I have found in playtesting.
The new UW lists aren't as susceptible to it but yeah, it can slow them down a bit.
One thing that I don't understand, though, is the choice between 2-4 Noble Hierarchs. Is there a major drawback to running 4? Is 2 not enough? I'm curious to hear the reasoning behind the choice.
The same goes for Viscera Seer and running 3 versus 4. I had always assumed that maxing on combo pieces was the correct choice; why is that different here?
Also, has the Archangel + spike feeder combo fallen out of favor as a backup?
I think most of the decisions are:
22-23 lands, 2-3 Noble Hierarchs, 1-2 Wall of Roots (I play 22/3/1) If you cut manadorks you have to add a land. The more 3-drops (finks and ewit) you have, you want more Nobles. The more 2-drops (voice and scooze), you want Wall.
3-4 Kitchen Finks, 3-4 Eternal Witness (I play 4/3) Maintain the powerlevel of Collected Company. You need to consistently hit real cards, manadorks don't count. Situational bullets are also less of a hit, as you can't count them as useful all the times.
2-3 Viscera Seer (I play 3, please never play 4) Viscera Seer is pretty bad outside of the combo.
Always 2/2 Anafenza and Melira.
1 Cartel Aristocrat
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Spike Feeder
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
2 Voice of Resurgence
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Eternal Witness
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Wall of Roots
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
2 Gavony Township
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
2 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Path to exile
2 Stony Silence
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sin collector
8 open spots for now
Concerns I have:
If you are really worried about Living end, Evolutionary Leap isn't a bad place to start. What I found to be most effective is getting the combo either online or split between GY and in play (with a way to sacrifice it down in response to Living End). Usually they are stuck in the awkward position where getting Living End gives me infinite life/damage and they are essentially screwed. Scooze also helps in this matchup by eating their dudes.
Evolutionary Leap never even crossed my mind. That looks like an amazing card for the match up. I will def have to put 1-2 in the side. Are there other match ups that it is good in?
1. How important is Voice of Resurgence in this deck? Are there budget options? What is the maximum # you would need?
2. Fulminator Mage - Played as 4 of to deal with eldrazi? And tron after bans? Or 2-3 is enough?
3. Reasons for Archangel of Thune?
4. Reasons for Linvala?
5. How does this deck differ between Kiki Chord?
Thanks for all your help!
If you have 1-2 Liliana Heretical healer in the 75, you can get away with 1-3 Fulminator. Depends on your meta whether Tron and Eldrazi are a thing. Not in my meta.
Graveyard hate kills our Melira infinite combo. Archangel of Thune and Spike Feeder are an infinte life combo that avoids the graveyard. Good to put in G2.
Linvala is great vs the mirror, Affinity, etc. Anyone who uses activated abilities such as Scavenging ooze Or sac outlets are nixed by her. Plus she's a big flying body.
Not sure of Kiki chord so someone else can answer.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Linvala has some use vs UW Eldrazi.
Maindeck Pontiff is also fine in a UW Eldrazi meta
Abzan coco is generally built and played as a creature-based combo deck that has a solid midrange game, and it's creatures tend to be smaller as well - outside of maybe voice tokens, kitchen Fink's is the biggest creature. Gavony township is a big part of the decks midrange plan.
Yeah two paths do seem good to MD in the meta right now I still prefer to stick with the currrent MD and not make my CoCo’s worse G1.
For the SB I prefer Path over Decay and would include a 4th Path before a 3rd Decay to be honest, Path is the best removal by far at the moment. It kills any Eldrazi for 1, is much superior against Kiki Chord/Mirror and gives us game against Jund where having a path in hand can easily be crucial to take down their Khalitas/Scavenging Ooze/Olivia Voldaren. On the other hand it’s worse against the hate we face, Bogles and other fringe strategies like Storm though I prefer to be more equipped against the former since I do run 3 Skites for Bogles (I honestly hate this matchup though, I don’t know if it’s just bad luck but everytime I play Bogles they have insane hands with Rest in Peace/Suppression Field/Gaddock Teeg + some Paths)
I play against Grishoalbrand fairly regularly since my brother owns the deck and Sin Collector is a bit too slow here, it also doesn’t take Snapcasters/Resto Angels which can easily be the most annoying cards when facing UWx imo. I do like a 1-of Sin Collector as the fourth discard since it does pressure the board and is a decent 2 for 1. The 4 Eternal Witness MD also entice me to use the Thoughtseize over other discard.
Dauntless Escort might actually be better now that bolts are seeing less play, I’m unsure if he is worth it though, 3cc is quite a bit.
By the way, after testing against U/W Eldrazi I found that Intrepid Hero is unfortunately too slow against Eldrazis good hands, I cast him t2 on the draw once just to get my face smashed in on his t3. I also tested Big Game Hunter and liked him the most, 2/3 BGH alongside 4 paths and 1/2 decay help out a lot and make the path your Reality Smasher, Madness in BGH, more likely. The third Spellskite was actually very useful, protecting my combo and blocking the creatures I do not manage to path/decay/FH/BGH – i.e. tokens, eldrazi displacer, untriggered Mimics and 3/3 Endless Ones. I think the efficient removal suite combined with Skites/Value to stall until you manage to combo is our best way to handle this matchup. One of the games I found myself with a decent board (2-3 creatures), 1 Path/1 BGH/1 Decay and a CoCo in hand, I passed the turn with 4 mana and never felt as safe against Eldrazi haha. Unfortunately we can’t do much against their t1 mimics t2 thought-knot t3 smasher hands but they’re far more likely to have a slower hand.
Regarding the Living End matchup, I find that with 3 Viscera Seer main and value creatures we are quite favoured,especially if you have MD Voices. Either get an early seer on the battlefield or even better leave chord for 1 up while you beatdown/develop the board. If he tries to LE then chord for seer with LE on the stack, sac everything and scry for the combo, then get your creatures back. the only blowout is if he has a timely Faerie Macabre in hand. Post-SB Scavenging Ooze is ok, a bit slow, Eidolon of Rhethoric is really good especially behind a Spellskite, and discard can also be rewarding depending on your opponents hand.
In the post-eldrazi world in April, how do you all predict Abzan Company will fair?
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall