what match-ups do you usually board in the thoughtseize's & kozilek's return?..isn't 18 lands a li'l greedy?
Missed that I only had 18 lands, will definitely go back up to 19
K-Return for those match-ups which can race you by going wide. Affinity, H-Scales and similar strategies. You could play Anger or Bontus over it, it was just a gut call based on what I expected.
I just edited my answer because we can't discuss bans or unbans in this part of the forum. I think of the 14 Warnings I've had, 13 of them has been answering these kinds of questions.
Know that feeling mate.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I just edited my answer because we can't discuss bans or unbans in this part of the forum. I think of the 14 Warnings I've had, 13 of them has been answering these kinds of questions.
Know that feeling mate.
Greetings,
Kathal
You're usually better than me at avoiding this. I personally can't avoid the temptation to say something, lol. (no restraint here)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
How is this deck preforming lately? I have a bunch of the cards from playing UR Breach and Dredge, but never tried this deck. I ran into it again last night, one of the top MTGO guys who plays it. I usually end up losing, and it's a scary deck to play against, but it makes for some fun games. I like how the deck doesn't completely rely on the GY. I had a Leyline of the Void, but that only helped for a few turns.
Phoenix was once a good match-up, since they included MD Surgical's it kinda tipped. Since it is the most popular deck atm, it is kinda iffy to say it this way.
Besides this, in general I would advise against playing/learning Griselbanned. The hassle of learning the deck is not really worth it, when there are other decks out there, which are as good or even better than Griselbanned but way easier to learn.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Phoenix was once a good match-up, since they included MD Surgical's it kinda tipped. Since it is the most popular deck atm, it is kinda iffy to say it this way.
Besides this, in general I would advise against playing/learning Griselbanned. The hassle of learning the deck is not really worth it, when there are other decks out there, which are as good or even better than Griselbanned but way easier to learn.
Greetings,
Kathal
i agree with kathal..the deck can be "emotionall taxing"..due to it's "glass cannon" nature it has inconsistency issues sometimes it gives you that turn 2 goldfish but most of the time the deck just beats itself silly or due to distruption it just folds up with you not being able to find the pieces in time to combo off..and with the current meta today GY hate is on the uptick with dredge & phoenix decks all over the place forcing other decks to even mainboard GY hate..let's wait and see if we can benefit from the new london mulligan if it sticks and what modern horizions has to offer us..maybe we can get new tools to make the deck more reliably consistent..one can dream of the day entomb & sneak attack makes it to our main deck.
If the reprint Entomb I'm very sure, that Goryo's will get banned.
Than again, I expect something like Careful Study like card more than anything else for this deck. There won't be a new (playable) cheat spell, there won't be hard tutors like Entomb, we just might get a better Wurm card or cantrip, nothing more and nothing less.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
2 weeks passed and I played 2 FNMS at my LGS. Went pretty well, first place last week (4-0) and third yesterday (4-1). Gonna write a little write up. Its pretty long, so Im leaving it in spoiler not to create a mess here.
15.03.19
Game 1
2-0 vs UR Storm
Game 1 was pretty funny. I played looting, putting Grisel into graveyard. Turn 2 my opponent summoned 10 goblin with Baral. I Goryoed turn 3 not finding enough pieces to make a combo but was able to put Borby into the grave. I passed, let him attack. Next turn I goryoed Borby and swinged with a land discard winning the game.
Game 2 was a classic turn 3 win
Game 2
2-1 vs Merfolks
Game 1 I Breached wurm turn 3 into his 2 merfolks, he just conceded, not being able to block tokens next turn.
Game 2 - I put Grisel into grave, played Goryo turn 2, Grisel got surgicalled. He put 2 lords on the battlefield and that was my end.
Game 3 - I had thoughtseize turn 1, finding that his hand is pretty slow with 1 merfolk which I removed. He played grafdigger's cage but I had a breach in my hand. He played vial, which I removed with the Abrade, bcs I was worried he has smth in his hand. He didn't. Turn 5 breached wurm and won the game.
Game 3
2-0 vs UW control
Game 1 - I had a good opening with Faithless, 2 goryo and Grisel. I put Grisel into grave. Turn 2 I passed. In his end step I cast Goryo, he negated. In my third turn I goryoed again and comboed.
Game 2 - He kept a pretty slow hand. I thoughtseized removing his Geist of Saint Traft. He has baneslayer and Jace in his hand. He put Jace on turn 4, but I already had breach Grisel in my hand so won quickly.
Game 4
2-1 vs Scapeshift/Titan Breach/Unexpected Results mixup
Game 1 - I think I just comboed turn 4 or 5, not quite remember.
Game 2 - I kept a slow hand with thoughtseize and some draw etc. Played thoughtseize turn 1 to see Breach and Emrakul in his hand. I removed breach. We passed some turns, on turn 5 I was able to win easily, but he drew 2nd Breach and ended me.
Game 3 - Faithless, Goryo, Grisel in hand. Turn 2 win bye.
The FNM went quite well, I was happy not meeting and Death's Shadow deck. Playing against combo decks like Storm or Scapeshift seems cool to me, bcs Grisel is just faster and finishes quicker.
22.03.19
I need to mention I improved my sideboard quite significantly, bringing 3 chalices into it and 1 Pact.
Game 1
0-2 vs Death's Shadow zoo
Game 1 - was rather unlucky, he thoughtseized me and put Goyf onto the battlefield turn 3. I finally drew my Breach and was able to put Grisel onto the table. Went down do 1 with the draw, attacked, repeated, I wanted to Shoal and then he shown me Lightning Bolt. That was so greedy, I could have attacked and Shoal at that time to survive and combo off easily. Greedy play from me, I didn't expect Bolt at all. Need to take care of that.
Game 2 - I ****ed up, had Chalice, Simian and Swamp in my hand. Decided to cast it turn 2. He played nacatl. In my 2nd turn I played Chalice for 1. He played Goyf. I played discovery, putting some cards into graveyard and forgetting its gonna pump Goyf. I'm still new in this format and don't remember such important matters.... 4 turns passed and I didn't draw anything, I was dead. ****ed up that game totally by not playing chalice turn 1.
Game 2
2-1 vs Rogue Tribal
Played against some budget tribal with Rogues. I was quite surprised with the Prowl ability. The most annoying guy was 5/3 that when played with Prowl exiles 3 cards from my deck. He removed my Goryo's this game winning game 2, leaving us 1-1. In game 3, he played his 5/3 again exiling my breaches but I was lucky enough to already got breach and wurm in my hand. Turn 4 I breached wurm and he was unable to block tokens.
Game 3
2-0 vs monored Phoenix / Hollow one
Game 1 - went pretty well, I comboed and enemy conceded.
Game 2 - This time I had Chalice, Simian and Swamp in hand. Decided to Chalice on turn 1, it was a good idea, I blocked all of his lootings. However, he turned his deck into burn with Swiftspears and Boros Charms. I was lucky enough to thoughtseize his phoenix on turn 3, while he had 3 lands ready to hardcast it turn 4. I was going down and down, played collective brutality killing swiftspear and removing goblin lore from his hand. On turn 8 I believe, I was able to Goryo Griselbrand to block the Phoenix to survive. Next turn I Breached wurm and won.
Game 4
2-1 vs Grixis Death's Shadow
I think that my enemy was quite bad, or at least unexperienced both in his deck and mine. I think that might have been a winning factor.
Game 1 - He had turn 1 three Street Wraiths, Thoughtseize - classic starter. He played Snapcaster to THoughtseize again, then played Shadow. He swinged for 8 and I shoaled wurm just to gain life. Next turn he thoughtseized seeing a mountain only, leaving himself at 5 hp. I topdecked Goryo to bring back Borby, swinged for 7 discarding mountain, so for 9 in overall. Mistake made by him to attack with Shadow cost him the game.
Game 2 - Really unlucky, I started with a good hand but wasn't able to do anything. I shoaled wurms two times just to avoid thoughtseize. I had 41 hp, he had 2 Gurmags. He attacked me 3 times, then flashed snapcaster. I drew nothing worth and lost.
Game 3 - The game I will remember for a long time ! Turn 2 Chalice with Simian and Swamp. Blocked almost everything in his deck except for Gurmags. He played spells just to get delve. I was unlucky one again. Spent 7 turns drawing lands and other nonsense. Quite amazing. Turn 8, with 1 hp I HARDCASTED Griselbrand into his 2 Gurmags. He passed. I attacked, drew 7. Got amazing draw. Passed. He attacked, I breached next Grisel to block. Next turn I had breach splicing goryo on Grisel and 22 swing finishing the game. WOW
Game 5
2-0 vs 4 colour control
Game 1 I was able to combo normally avoiding his counterspells with the splice.
Game 2 - I had Blood moon, ritual, swamp and mountain. He played Search for Azcanta turn 2, I played ritual and the moon. It was the beginning of the end. I goryoed Griselbrand and drew 2 pacts anyway, I was playing around his 1 open blue mana for no reason I suppose with 2 pacts with my giant hand. I breached Borby, he has no answer, I won.
In overall - Chalice of the Void and the Blood Moon won me games for sure. I think they are both quite amazing in our sideboard and allow us to stale/block the enemy deck for long time enough to draw smth worthy. Im starting to like Grisel VERY MUCH. I am also able to make more sophisticated plays than before, knowing my deck more and more certainly took its tole. Though, there is still much to learn ahead of me.
Tomorrow on Sunday Im playing a MKM trial at my LGS. Its gonna be a 50man tournament, wish me luck.
2 weeks passed and I played 2 FNMS at my LGS. Went pretty well, first place last week (4-0) and third yesterday (4-1). Gonna write a little write up. Its pretty long, so Im leaving it in spoiler not to create a mess here.
I pretty much run the same 60 as you, but I'm running this side:
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Pact of Negation
1 Collective Brutality
1 Shatterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I'm not opposed to buying into chalices, but this is more of a toy deck for me so I haven't pulled the trigger yet. Looks like you've really gotten some work out of them though which is encouraging to see.
I'm also looking at another 5-0 list that keeps coming up on MTGO:
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
3 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
4 Night's Whisper
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Manamorphose
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Through the Breach
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Temple of Malice
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Collective Brutality
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
3 Pact of Negation
2 Shatterstorm
Has anyone run the above? Looks more cantrip'y with less interaction (no Collective Brutality or Lightning Axe).
I've recently had a renewed interest in Fury of the Horde versions. Something about having 8 fatties and 8 enablers is making more sense to me right now than the weird 4/8 and 4/4 split that puts us in between Sneak Attack and Reanimator. With the Shoal version, if you don't have a Griselbrand in your top 10-15 cards, you just lose. Adding Big Spaghetti back into the mix somewhat alleviates this issue. Does anyone have any Fury lists kicking around?
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I've recently had a renewed interest in Fury of the Horde versions. Something about having 8 fatties and 8 enablers is making more sense to me right now than the weird 4/8 and 4/4 split that puts us in between Sneak Attack and Reanimator. With the Shoal version, if you don't have a Griselbrand in your top 10-15 cards, you just lose. Adding Big Spaghetti back into the mix somewhat alleviates this issue. Does anyone have any Fury lists kicking around?
Either version might be very meta dependent, but maybe look up Caleb Durward's Griselbrand "control" list from the Eldrazi winter days? I use control very loosely, but it did run a lot more interaction than the typical lists. I haven't played that version in a long while, so I can't confidently advocate it's positioning at this time. It does run the full set of Gris and Emrakul for more targets and sacrifices some speed to control what the opponent was trying to do. I remember adding bolts to the list for some additional interaction (infect was a big factor then) and reach (cheesed some wins out with bolt + Emrakul after they played a shock land untapped).
I've recently had a renewed interest in Fury of the Horde versions. Something about having 8 fatties and 8 enablers is making more sense to me right now than the weird 4/8 and 4/4 split that puts us in between Sneak Attack and Reanimator. With the Shoal version, if you don't have a Griselbrand in your top 10-15 cards, you just lose. Adding Big Spaghetti back into the mix somewhat alleviates this issue. Does anyone have any Fury lists kicking around?
If you really want to go the Fury route, I suggest to do the following:
Play Narset, Enlightened Master, Serum Powder, Pull from Eternity and different Fury effects (Fury of the Horde, Relentless Assault or Waves of Aggression) + maybe Spoils of the Vault. That is probably the most consistent Fury deck out there, since it is purely graveyard focused (cause of the interaction of Powder, Pull and Goryo's), can still play Breach without any problems and can spell based ramp (Morphose works too) to generate extra mana of Narset to do stuff with cards in your hand.
Sure, if you go more the Narset route, than stuff like Conflux, Brilliant Ultimatum, Enter the Infinite or Omniscience could be played (see here and here for more infos). However, that are details and more important the question, how deep you want to go down that rabbit hole.
Thing is, I would try to avoid playing Emmi atm (but if you want to beat Infinite Life, Warship and co where Lab Man would do the trick too), cause she is kinda clunky and more often than not cannot kill on the spot. Than you need to play Bolt to have a way to kill the opp. Also Grisel is not a sure win, more of an set-up, since you more often than not need another combo turn to actually close out the game. Hence, I would go the more brutal approach with Narset tbh.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Tested a hybrid build of Narset + Griselbrand yesterday evening (build it and played 20+ goldfish games). Thoughts:
It does not really work. Narset adds so many "bad" cards to the deck (to be able to get actually benefits of her) that it is not really worth it. However, what I noticed was, that Pull from Eternity combined with both Serum Powder and Gemstone Caverns led to some very interesting turn 2 kills via Griselbrand. How it works: You are on the draw, use Powder or Gemstone Cavern (ideally) to exile Griselbrand, so you can go for Pull into Vengeance on turn 2. Increased the speed (and also the consisntency) by quite a noticeable margin.
So, next version I will try is a Powder version, something I wanted to do since quite a while.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Tested a hybrid build of Narset + Griselbrand yesterday evening (build it and played 20+ goldfish games). Thoughts:
It does not really work. Narset adds so many "bad" cards to the deck (to be able to get actually benefits of her) that it is not really worth it. However, what I noticed was, that Pull from Eternity combined with both Serum Powder and Gemstone Caverns led to some very interesting turn 2 kills via Griselbrand. How it works: You are on the draw, use Powder or Gemstone Cavern (ideally) to exile Griselbrand, so you can go for Pull into Vengeance on turn 2. Increased the speed (and also the consisntency) by quite a noticeable margin.
So, next version I will try is a Powder version, something I wanted to do since quite a while.
Greetings,
Kathal
can you use pull from eternity to a griselbrand that was exiled via surgical extraction?
Tested a hybrid build of Narset + Griselbrand yesterday evening (build it and played 20+ goldfish games). Thoughts:
It does not really work. Narset adds so many "bad" cards to the deck (to be able to get actually benefits of her) that it is not really worth it. However, what I noticed was, that Pull from Eternity combined with both Serum Powder and Gemstone Caverns led to some very interesting turn 2 kills via Griselbrand. How it works: You are on the draw, use Powder or Gemstone Cavern (ideally) to exile Griselbrand, so you can go for Pull into Vengeance on turn 2. Increased the speed (and also the consisntency) by quite a noticeable margin.
So, next version I will try is a Powder version, something I wanted to do since quite a while.
Greetings,
Kathal
No, Narset is far too janky. The problem I'm looking to address by turning back towards fury of the horde is the extremely awkward 4Grisel/8Enablers and the 4Wurm/4Enablers inconsistency. Borborygmos doesn't count because Breach/Goryos him doesn't actually do anything without Griselbrand already. I want 8 fatties and 8 things that work on both fatties. Emrakul seems to be the best bet. If I'm already going to be putting 4 Emrakul in my deck then the most logical thing to cut is the Wurm and without the Wurm you don't need Shoal and without Shoal you don't need Borborygmos. I was just curious if anyone had a deck or has seen a deck recently that has gone this route as well. I think it's safe to say that Griselbrand and Shoal, while fun, has reached the best deck in can be in modern for the time being (which is, the results say, not a very good one.) So my thought process is to up the consistency by retooling it a little. Having an 8/8 ratio of combo pieces is better than a 4/8 or a 4/4 ratio and would potentially solve the issue of not having exactly Griselbrand in your top 15 or so cards. Fury of the Horde is a one card combo that makes Griselbrand lethal, which makes a lot more sense when you are cutting Wurms and Shoals. Just a thought.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I honestly never thought, that we could get an upgrade on the creature/enabler side, but here we are. Putting the problem with Path aside (which can be handled via different cards), that card is just bonkers. Why?
- It is a recurring cheat engine, since there is no way to remove it permanently (it will return sooner than later)
- It is cheap enough to get hard casted
- It doges most played removal, Lightning Axe, Dismember, Bolt and Push does nothing against Mr. Boar
- It is a three card combo with any other creature with only a single cheat spell, which is insane
The only con is: You want that guy in the classic none Shoal version, which is honestly not that big of an problem, since nobody plays control atm and GDS is either way a piss-poor match-up.
I was already starting to brew with Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion cause of how good his ability is in the Necrotic Ooze version (after brewing around with a Powder + Gemstone Cavern + Pull of Eternity Build), but now I put a stop on it and will go back to the classic version. Dunno if I want to go Powder route or not, has it's pro and cons.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
glad to see it caught your eyes too Kathal I came to the same conclusion and drafted a mid rangey reanimator deck. turn 2 pentad, turn 3 pig/breach is pretty appealing to me.
glad to see it caught your eyes too Kathal I came to the same conclusion and drafted a mid rangey reanimator deck. turn 2 pentad, turn 3 pig/breach is pretty appealing to me.
Missed that I only had 18 lands, will definitely go back up to 19
K-Return for those match-ups which can race you by going wide. Affinity, H-Scales and similar strategies. You could play Anger or Bontus over it, it was just a gut call based on what I expected.
Know that feeling mate.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
You're usually better than me at avoiding this. I personally can't avoid the temptation to say something, lol. (no restraint here)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Besides this, in general I would advise against playing/learning Griselbanned. The hassle of learning the deck is not really worth it, when there are other decks out there, which are as good or even better than Griselbanned but way easier to learn.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
i agree with kathal..the deck can be "emotionall taxing"..due to it's "glass cannon" nature it has inconsistency issues sometimes it gives you that turn 2 goldfish but most of the time the deck just beats itself silly or due to distruption it just folds up with you not being able to find the pieces in time to combo off..and with the current meta today GY hate is on the uptick with dredge & phoenix decks all over the place forcing other decks to even mainboard GY hate..let's wait and see if we can benefit from the new london mulligan if it sticks and what modern horizions has to offer us..maybe we can get new tools to make the deck more reliably consistent..one can dream of the day entomb & sneak attack makes it to our main deck.
Than again, I expect something like Careful Study like card more than anything else for this deck. There won't be a new (playable) cheat spell, there won't be hard tutors like Entomb, we just might get a better Wurm card or cantrip, nothing more and nothing less.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
2 weeks passed and I played 2 FNMS at my LGS. Went pretty well, first place last week (4-0) and third yesterday (4-1). Gonna write a little write up. Its pretty long, so Im leaving it in spoiler not to create a mess here.
15.03.19
Game 1
2-0 vs UR Storm
Game 1 was pretty funny. I played looting, putting Grisel into graveyard. Turn 2 my opponent summoned 10 goblin with Baral. I Goryoed turn 3 not finding enough pieces to make a combo but was able to put Borby into the grave. I passed, let him attack. Next turn I goryoed Borby and swinged with a land discard winning the game.
Game 2 was a classic turn 3 win
Game 2
2-1 vs Merfolks
Game 1 I Breached wurm turn 3 into his 2 merfolks, he just conceded, not being able to block tokens next turn.
Game 2 - I put Grisel into grave, played Goryo turn 2, Grisel got surgicalled. He put 2 lords on the battlefield and that was my end.
Game 3 - I had thoughtseize turn 1, finding that his hand is pretty slow with 1 merfolk which I removed. He played grafdigger's cage but I had a breach in my hand. He played vial, which I removed with the Abrade, bcs I was worried he has smth in his hand. He didn't. Turn 5 breached wurm and won the game.
Game 3
2-0 vs UW control
Game 1 - I had a good opening with Faithless, 2 goryo and Grisel. I put Grisel into grave. Turn 2 I passed. In his end step I cast Goryo, he negated. In my third turn I goryoed again and comboed.
Game 2 - He kept a pretty slow hand. I thoughtseized removing his Geist of Saint Traft. He has baneslayer and Jace in his hand. He put Jace on turn 4, but I already had breach Grisel in my hand so won quickly.
Game 4
2-1 vs Scapeshift/Titan Breach/Unexpected Results mixup
Game 1 - I think I just comboed turn 4 or 5, not quite remember.
Game 2 - I kept a slow hand with thoughtseize and some draw etc. Played thoughtseize turn 1 to see Breach and Emrakul in his hand. I removed breach. We passed some turns, on turn 5 I was able to win easily, but he drew 2nd Breach and ended me.
Game 3 - Faithless, Goryo, Grisel in hand. Turn 2 win bye.
The FNM went quite well, I was happy not meeting and Death's Shadow deck. Playing against combo decks like Storm or Scapeshift seems cool to me, bcs Grisel is just faster and finishes quicker.
22.03.19
I need to mention I improved my sideboard quite significantly, bringing 3 chalices into it and 1 Pact.
Game 1
0-2 vs Death's Shadow zoo
Game 1 - was rather unlucky, he thoughtseized me and put Goyf onto the battlefield turn 3. I finally drew my Breach and was able to put Grisel onto the table. Went down do 1 with the draw, attacked, repeated, I wanted to Shoal and then he shown me Lightning Bolt. That was so greedy, I could have attacked and Shoal at that time to survive and combo off easily. Greedy play from me, I didn't expect Bolt at all. Need to take care of that.
Game 2 - I ****ed up, had Chalice, Simian and Swamp in my hand. Decided to cast it turn 2. He played nacatl. In my 2nd turn I played Chalice for 1. He played Goyf. I played discovery, putting some cards into graveyard and forgetting its gonna pump Goyf. I'm still new in this format and don't remember such important matters.... 4 turns passed and I didn't draw anything, I was dead. ****ed up that game totally by not playing chalice turn 1.
Game 2
2-1 vs Rogue Tribal
Played against some budget tribal with Rogues. I was quite surprised with the Prowl ability. The most annoying guy was 5/3 that when played with Prowl exiles 3 cards from my deck. He removed my Goryo's this game winning game 2, leaving us 1-1. In game 3, he played his 5/3 again exiling my breaches but I was lucky enough to already got breach and wurm in my hand. Turn 4 I breached wurm and he was unable to block tokens.
Game 3
2-0 vs monored Phoenix / Hollow one
Game 1 - went pretty well, I comboed and enemy conceded.
Game 2 - This time I had Chalice, Simian and Swamp in hand. Decided to Chalice on turn 1, it was a good idea, I blocked all of his lootings. However, he turned his deck into burn with Swiftspears and Boros Charms. I was lucky enough to thoughtseize his phoenix on turn 3, while he had 3 lands ready to hardcast it turn 4. I was going down and down, played collective brutality killing swiftspear and removing goblin lore from his hand. On turn 8 I believe, I was able to Goryo Griselbrand to block the Phoenix to survive. Next turn I Breached wurm and won.
Game 4
2-1 vs Grixis Death's Shadow
I think that my enemy was quite bad, or at least unexperienced both in his deck and mine. I think that might have been a winning factor.
Game 1 - He had turn 1 three Street Wraiths, Thoughtseize - classic starter. He played Snapcaster to THoughtseize again, then played Shadow. He swinged for 8 and I shoaled wurm just to gain life. Next turn he thoughtseized seeing a mountain only, leaving himself at 5 hp. I topdecked Goryo to bring back Borby, swinged for 7 discarding mountain, so for 9 in overall. Mistake made by him to attack with Shadow cost him the game.
Game 2 - Really unlucky, I started with a good hand but wasn't able to do anything. I shoaled wurms two times just to avoid thoughtseize. I had 41 hp, he had 2 Gurmags. He attacked me 3 times, then flashed snapcaster. I drew nothing worth and lost.
Game 3 - The game I will remember for a long time ! Turn 2 Chalice with Simian and Swamp. Blocked almost everything in his deck except for Gurmags. He played spells just to get delve. I was unlucky one again. Spent 7 turns drawing lands and other nonsense. Quite amazing. Turn 8, with 1 hp I HARDCASTED Griselbrand into his 2 Gurmags. He passed. I attacked, drew 7. Got amazing draw. Passed. He attacked, I breached next Grisel to block. Next turn I had breach splicing goryo on Grisel and 22 swing finishing the game. WOW
Game 5
2-0 vs 4 colour control
Game 1 I was able to combo normally avoiding his counterspells with the splice.
Game 2 - I had Blood moon, ritual, swamp and mountain. He played Search for Azcanta turn 2, I played ritual and the moon. It was the beginning of the end. I goryoed Griselbrand and drew 2 pacts anyway, I was playing around his 1 open blue mana for no reason I suppose with 2 pacts with my giant hand. I breached Borby, he has no answer, I won.
In overall - Chalice of the Void and the Blood Moon won me games for sure. I think they are both quite amazing in our sideboard and allow us to stale/block the enemy deck for long time enough to draw smth worthy. Im starting to like Grisel VERY MUCH. I am also able to make more sophisticated plays than before, knowing my deck more and more certainly took its tole. Though, there is still much to learn ahead of me.
Tomorrow on Sunday Im playing a MKM trial at my LGS. Its gonna be a 50man tournament, wish me luck.
Posting my deck with the latest changes:
6 Mountain
1 Dragonskull Summit
7 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
1 Sulfurous Springs
Creatures
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
1 Collective Brutality
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Discovery/Dispersal
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Lightning Axe
2 Night's Whisper
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Through the Breach
1 Abrade
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Blood Moon
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Pact of Negation
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Shatterstorm
1 Thoughtseize
I pretty much run the same 60 as you, but I'm running this side:
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Necrotic Ooze
2 Pact of Negation
1 Collective Brutality
1 Shatterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I'm not opposed to buying into chalices, but this is more of a toy deck for me so I haven't pulled the trigger yet. Looks like you've really gotten some work out of them though which is encouraging to see.
I'm also looking at another 5-0 list that keeps coming up on MTGO:
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
3 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
4 Night's Whisper
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
2 Manamorphose
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Through the Breach
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Temple of Malice
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Collective Brutality
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Mastermind's Acquisition
3 Pact of Negation
2 Shatterstorm
Has anyone run the above? Looks more cantrip'y with less interaction (no Collective Brutality or Lightning Axe).
Either version might be very meta dependent, but maybe look up Caleb Durward's Griselbrand "control" list from the Eldrazi winter days? I use control very loosely, but it did run a lot more interaction than the typical lists. I haven't played that version in a long while, so I can't confidently advocate it's positioning at this time. It does run the full set of Gris and Emrakul for more targets and sacrifices some speed to control what the opponent was trying to do. I remember adding bolts to the list for some additional interaction (infect was a big factor then) and reach (cheesed some wins out with bolt + Emrakul after they played a shock land untapped).
4 x Blackcleave Cliffs
4 x Bloodstained Mire
1 x Mountain
4 x Temple of Malice
1 x Blood Crypt
6 x Swamp
2 x Verdant Catacombs
4 x Griselbrand
4 x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 x Simian Spirit Guide
1 x Inquisition of Kozilek
4 x Goryo’s Vengeance
4 x Through the Breach
2 x Damnation
2 x Blood Moon
4 x Faithless Looting
3 x Tormenting Voice
1 x Pentad Prism
1 x Quicksilver Amulet
2 x Darkblast
4 x Leyline of Sanctity
1 x Blood Moon
2 x Engineered Explosives
3 x Inquisition of Kozilek
2 x Liliana of the Veil
1 x Pyroclasm
If you really want to go the Fury route, I suggest to do the following:
Play Narset, Enlightened Master, Serum Powder, Pull from Eternity and different Fury effects (Fury of the Horde, Relentless Assault or Waves of Aggression) + maybe Spoils of the Vault. That is probably the most consistent Fury deck out there, since it is purely graveyard focused (cause of the interaction of Powder, Pull and Goryo's), can still play Breach without any problems and can spell based ramp (Morphose works too) to generate extra mana of Narset to do stuff with cards in your hand.
Sure, if you go more the Narset route, than stuff like Conflux, Brilliant Ultimatum, Enter the Infinite or Omniscience could be played (see here and here for more infos). However, that are details and more important the question, how deep you want to go down that rabbit hole.
Thing is, I would try to avoid playing Emmi atm (but if you want to beat Infinite Life, Warship and co where Lab Man would do the trick too), cause she is kinda clunky and more often than not cannot kill on the spot. Than you need to play Bolt to have a way to kill the opp. Also Grisel is not a sure win, more of an set-up, since you more often than not need another combo turn to actually close out the game. Hence, I would go the more brutal approach with Narset tbh.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
It does not really work. Narset adds so many "bad" cards to the deck (to be able to get actually benefits of her) that it is not really worth it. However, what I noticed was, that Pull from Eternity combined with both Serum Powder and Gemstone Caverns led to some very interesting turn 2 kills via Griselbrand. How it works: You are on the draw, use Powder or Gemstone Cavern (ideally) to exile Griselbrand, so you can go for Pull into Vengeance on turn 2. Increased the speed (and also the consisntency) by quite a noticeable margin.
So, next version I will try is a Powder version, something I wanted to do since quite a while.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
can you use pull from eternity to a griselbrand that was exiled via surgical extraction?
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
No, Narset is far too janky. The problem I'm looking to address by turning back towards fury of the horde is the extremely awkward 4Grisel/8Enablers and the 4Wurm/4Enablers inconsistency. Borborygmos doesn't count because Breach/Goryos him doesn't actually do anything without Griselbrand already. I want 8 fatties and 8 things that work on both fatties. Emrakul seems to be the best bet. If I'm already going to be putting 4 Emrakul in my deck then the most logical thing to cut is the Wurm and without the Wurm you don't need Shoal and without Shoal you don't need Borborygmos. I was just curious if anyone had a deck or has seen a deck recently that has gone this route as well. I think it's safe to say that Griselbrand and Shoal, while fun, has reached the best deck in can be in modern for the time being (which is, the results say, not a very good one.) So my thought process is to up the consistency by retooling it a little. Having an 8/8 ratio of combo pieces is better than a 4/8 or a 4/4 ratio and would potentially solve the issue of not having exactly Griselbrand in your top 15 or so cards. Fury of the Horde is a one card combo that makes Griselbrand lethal, which makes a lot more sense when you are cutting Wurms and Shoals. Just a thought.
Works with Goryo (=21 with wurm), TtB, and its a great answer VS RIP.
What do you think?
I honestly never thought, that we could get an upgrade on the creature/enabler side, but here we are. Putting the problem with Path aside (which can be handled via different cards), that card is just bonkers. Why?
- It is a recurring cheat engine, since there is no way to remove it permanently (it will return sooner than later)
- It is cheap enough to get hard casted
- It doges most played removal, Lightning Axe, Dismember, Bolt and Push does nothing against Mr. Boar
- It is a three card combo with any other creature with only a single cheat spell, which is insane
The only con is: You want that guy in the classic none Shoal version, which is honestly not that big of an problem, since nobody plays control atm and GDS is either way a piss-poor match-up.
I was already starting to brew with Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion cause of how good his ability is in the Necrotic Ooze version (after brewing around with a Powder + Gemstone Cavern + Pull of Eternity Build), but now I put a stop on it and will go back to the classic version. Dunno if I want to go Powder route or not, has it's pro and cons.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
let me know what you think
https://twitter.com/finalnub/status/1116112972386979841
how about an abrade or 2 in the SB?..ensnaring bridge is really goin to be a real problem with this deck..