The deck used to play 3 Shatterstorm and 1 Shattering Spree back in the days, so if you have room you can increase the amount of hate cards for those match-ups.
@GolgariMage, Dispersal is garbage, you would only cast it when you are losing to begin with, where you can also go for Discovery and try to win instead (bin Grisel, draw Goryo's and hope it is enough).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I'm playing with Grishoal since the beggining of the year and doing pretty great. I'm playing 2 tournaments per week since the first week of the year and my Standings are x-5.
I think that the deck is well placed in nowadays meta. I just ignores HS, Phoenix, Dredge and can beat Humans and Spirits. The deck doesn't loose to control decks (really, if you play right, it's impossible to loose. I won againsta a UW with 3 path, a surgical and a celestial purge on hand. And counters... was awsome).
I'm a storm player but trying to make GriShowBrand my season deck.
But i'm having troubles with Grixis DS. The match seems unbeatable. What do you are doing in this MU to we have a chance?
4 goryos
4 breach
4 looting
4 shoal
4 Discovery
2 Whisper
2 Lightning axe
(Was playing with 1 conflagrate as alternative wincon and was really great, but i'm prefering the Emrakul).
Sideboard:
4 leyline sanctity
2 seize
2 brutality
1 EE
2 Abrade
2 Pact of negation
2 Anger.
How are you organizing your side/main against this MU?
Another question: someone tried the green splash for Trphy and/or time of need?
It's worthy? How do you make the manabase?
Grixis Death Shadow (as every Tempo deck) is a nightmare to play against. Only pre ban Infect (aka with Probe) was a worse match-up. The one thing which helped historically against it (besides praying that you dodge them) is Chalice of the Void and slamming it on turn 1 (with SSG). Otherwise it is quite brutal to play against it, as you already said.
Regarding a possible G splash. Way back in the days, when the deck first cropped up I played the G splash with Time of Need and Decay (and for possible Borbo hard cast, which came up a few times). Time of Need was rather clunky and Decay didn't offer much back in the days (not a lot of RIP cause not a lot of dedicated Graveyard decks). Nowadays Time of Need is even worse (cause it is clunky and basically a timewarp on yourself) while Decay/Trophy got better (cause rise in RIP/Leyline). Than again, Surgical is nowadays the premier graveyard hate card, so again, those two do not really work against them. Hence, I honestly do not know, if you really need them, or if the increased damage of your mana base (combined with the cut of Temples to be able to support the splash) doesn't hurt the deck more than the gains you get from running Claim/Trophy.
Would need to dig up an old list of mine for the exact mana base, but finding them after 3+ years is kinda hard
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Yeah, DS is really hard and i'm looking for ways to face it cause i'll play the GP SP and planning to bring Grishow
My only problem is DS
About the green splash, i always thinking about white leyline, not black or RIP(EE can take it out)
After board i always side out a couple of vengeance due to the format focus on GY Hate. It's really works. The problem is leyline cause you can't expect that wurm could win cause it will be path.
It's more for this case.
What do you think about my list/sideboard?
Any consideration?
If your only problem is Death Shadow itself (the card not the deck) than Devour Flesh is a good out. Otherwise Chalice was the main tool to fight GDS (cause it turns off 90% of their deck). Ensnaring Bridge was a tech I also tested back in the days, but it was kinda iffy cause they played K-Command MD and they had so many bad cards they needed to cut before they actually started cutting K-Command, hence they still had outs to it even though they didn't expect it.
Note: It was usually either W-Leyline or Chalice in the board for GDS, cause bringing both resulted into a very week combo plan (7 slots are hard to gobble up).
I never had troubles with Leyline of Sanctity, cause a resolved Griselbrand is still game (cause you just chain draw into cheat spells + creature). Sure, it is not as nice and clean as a simple Borbo kill but not many decks are capable of winning through a draw 14 from this deck. It only ever was a problem if it was combined with things like RIP or Needle on Griselbrand.
If you really want a decent out to it but not invest into a full splash (which I would do), add a Watery Grave to your MD so that you can cast Dispersal (card still sucks, but can deal with a Leyline). Should be a more elegant solution imo.
Regarding your deck, not that big fan of the single Emmi MD, but I can understand it and several players really liked it (I never was one of them ^^ ). Otherwise the MD is quite the stock list to say it this way. It seems to me that you are missing 3 cards, I assume they are 3 Desperate Rituals.
For the SB, since you are already cutting back on the Vengeance (which I also do in several match-ups) you can think about adding a Quicksilver Amulet to your SB, which is a more robust way to cheat in the creatures (although obviously slower). Would be basically a 5th TTB. Otherwise there is the discussion between Chalice of the Void and Leyline (you can hardly afford boarding both of them in the match-ups you want them). If you want to hedge purely against DRS than Chalice is better, Leyline offers Discard protection from turn 1, Chalice needs to get handled or they lose. Of course, you can be greedy and play both (and go -2 Vengeance, -1 Looting, -1 Desperate Ritual, -1 Shoal, -2 Lightning Axe when you board), but it is REALLY cutting deep into the meat of the deck. Keep in mind that usually any kind of TTB creature is game against them. Also, if you bring in Chalice vs them then you usually do not bring in Pact (cause it would be redundant to say it this way).
Regarding Pact, there is always the possibility to run Defense Grid, however I steered away from it since it makes EoT stuff harder, which is something you always want to do vs Control decks (where you would bring in Grid).
Not really a fan from the two Brutalities btw.
Oh, and I would play one Shatterstorm in the SB, 4c Whir is on the uptic and it is a REALLY good deck, hence, having an "oops I win" button is always nice to have (it is also a good card vs Affinity/Hardening Scales).
I'm not really a fan from the Brutalities. I know their value, but I never boarded them in in the match-ups where I would have wanted it, since I had higher impact spells (Chalice e.g.). So that would be a card for me to cut.
That's it I think.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I play with brutlity for the Burn MU, Thalia's MU e and for 4 discards in side. But i don't like it too at all.
If i'll prefer to use Chalice, what should i take out? The leylines?
Because leyline is here husto for discards (i don't use it against burn or direct damage)
I don't like defense grid too. Often i win in opponent's turn. It's the advabtage of a instant speed combo kill.
The missing slots in MD are 2 Desperate and a Manamorphose
Bontu's seems better than anger for the meta or anger is fine?
Hiw do you build tour side and how are you going on the Stands?
I'm really satisfy with the deck performance. He looks great for the meta. Just DS bother us ://
Yeah that is my question as well, choosing between Anger and Bontu is tough, why would we pick the latter?
Also, what about the PENTAD PRISM. I don't have them yet but it seems so nice to store some mana. I found that in the past people used this card in the deck. What happened and why it is not around? Have anyone tested it before?
I play with brutlity for the Burn MU, Thalia's MU e and for 4 discards in side. But i don't like it too at all.
If i'll prefer to use Chalice, what should i take out? The leylines?
Because leyline is here husto for discards (i don't use it against burn or direct damage)
I don't like defense grid too. Often i win in opponent's turn. It's the advabtage of a instant speed combo kill.
The missing slots in MD are 2 Desperate and a Manamorphose
Bontu's seems better than anger for the meta or anger is fine?
Hiw do you build tour side and how are you going on the Stands?
I'm really satisfy with the deck performance. He looks great for the meta. Just DS bother us ://
With the resurgence of BG it is kinda difficult. I would personally just accept that DS is a bad match-up and just run Leyline instead, which are still decent vs them, just not as backbreaking as Chalice. So I would board in 4 Leylines and 2-3 Pact of Negation (depending on how many cards you have to board out). Note: Leyline is better in lists which are playing Tormenting Voice/Reunion, since you can discard excessive ones later in the game.
Bontu vs Anger, it depends on what you want to have. Anger is better vs aggro, Bontu better vs big dumb creature boards (Humans, Eldarzie and Death Shadow). Hence, if you are expecting lots of fast Aggro decks, where you would want an Sweeper, bring Anger, otherwise Bontu. Though, I would personally run a split between them (1-1) with a singe target removal spell in addition. More often than not you just want to kill that one creature instead of the whole board.
Yeah that is my question as well, choosing between Anger and Bontu is tough, why would we pick the latter?
Also, what about the PENTAD PRISM. I don't have them yet but it seems so nice to store some mana. I found that in the past people used this card in the deck. What happened and why it is not around? Have anyone tested it before?
Pentad Prism got cut from the Shoal version quite early. It is clunky (you need to play it on turn 2), it enables different interaction spells (Decay/Trophy) and only makes the TTB kill a turn faster (compared to a SSG/Ritual). In the Fist version you needed it to be able to filter the mana, in the classic all in version you kinda wanted it to have somewhat reliable turn 3 TTB (NOTE: This was way back, when more Maelstrom Pulse saw more play than Decays) and in the more midrangy versions you never wanted it, since it was a dead card.
Hence, if you do not want to go back to the all in version without Shoal (so with either Fury and/or Soul Spike) do not play that card. Ritual is way better, since it also allows splice action (which comes up a lot).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I see. What you say makes sense I think. What about 1 copy of pentad prism run instead of single copy of Manamorphose? I don't own it yet, and it's quite expensive right now so I'd rather cut it my version. Currently I often run into issue of not having 1 black mana to cast Goryo while drawing my whole library with Grisel. Could pentad prism work here as a substitution, just to play it to remove 1 counter and to get black mana?
It is only a suitable replacement, if you are not comboing at instant speed. Otherwise Manamorphose is strictly better. Furthermore, Pentad Prism also makes mana light combo draws more iffy, since you are only getting one mana out of it. Hence, if you would want to replace Morphose with a card, which filters red into B, go for Wild Cantor instead. It filters you the one B mana you need, costs only 1 (so mana efficient when comboing), can be pitched to Shoal (if you need something to splice) and can block in a pinch. However, it doesn't allow for a turn 3 TTB which Prism would allow you to do.
Basically Morphose >>>>>>> Wild Cantor >> Pentad Prism
(and than again, I would only play Morphose if you REALLY want that effect in the deck, since it has such a low base power in this deck compared to Phoenix)
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
just curious..if i cast goryo's vengeance splicing through the breach targeting a griselbrand in my graveyard and my opponent responds by casting a surgical extraction on griselbrand does the through the breach fizzles?
In that case it does. You only have a single legal target (with Goryo's Vengeance targeting Griselbrand), when this one target becomes invalid the spell fizzels. Since the Spell is TTB + Goyro's, both fizzel.
Same thing happens if you splice Goryo's on Shoal and the target gets removed.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
In that case it does. You only have a single legal target (with Goryo's Vengeance targeting Griselbrand), when this one target becomes invalid the spell fizzels. Since the Spell is TTB + Goyro's, both fizzel.
Same thing happens if you splice Goryo's on Shoal and the target gets removed.
Greetings,
Kathal
is it the same when you cast nourishing shoal splicing breach..and an opponent cast skullcrack in response does the breach also fizzles due to not being able to gain life?
is it the same when you cast nourishing shoal splicing breach..and an opponent cast skullcrack in response does the breach also fizzles due to not being able to gain life?
That is something completely different.
Basically, a spell fizzles (if it is already casted and on the stack), if all the available targets got invalid due to different reasons. For example, if you cast a Bolt targeting a creature and the opponent casts Dive Down on it, the Bolt has no legal targets anymore and thus fizzles.
However, as long as the spell has legal targets (if it required one, example would be Opt, no legal target required in this case) than the spell won't fizzle even though it would do nothing.
Example: If you Remand a creature which is un-counterable due to Cavern of Souls, Remand will try to counter the spell, but the spell cannot be counter --> That half of the Spell does nothing. However, Remand has further text which says "Draw a Card".
This means the creature will resolve but you are able to draw a card.
Similar to this is a Shoal with a spliced TTB. You have no targets for the spell so the spell cannot fizzle in this regard. When the opponent now casts Skullcrack or Atarka's Command (or anything like this), you simply won't get any life but you will still get the TTB effect.
Those things are important to know, when you try to win via a splice goryo into a normal cast goyro in response to graveyard hate. If you use any Arcane card, which has no targets (e.g. Shoal and Ritual) it will fizzle if you use Goryo's spliced on it, if the target of Goryo's gets invalid. If you would use Glacial Ray instead (which targets something) and you splice a Goryo's on it, even if the target for Goryo's gets invalid, Glacial Ray still has a target and thus that part of the spell still resolves (the other part fizzles due to not having any legal target).
That is the reason, why a Cryptic with counter + draw gets "countered" if you use a Remand to bounce your own spell. Since it loses it's only target it fizzles and the opp cannot draw a card (and that is also a big reason, why Remand is so good in those control match-ups).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I just played few games with my Griselboy at my LGS. I find it impossible to win with Death's Shadow. What to do against them?
You pray to dodge them, as simple as it is.
Only Chalice tips the match-up somewhat, and even than it is atrocious. It is nearly as bad as the old Infect match-up was.
Played today at a local event with some nice prices:
Round 1 vs Spirits:
Game 1 won by playing around CoCo into Queller but not Wanderer (he had a Lord and I had a SSG to pay, but he would be 2/2). Got rewarded, since he had a Queller in hand.
Game 2 nothing special happened, Griseldaddy ftw.
Round 2 vs UR Control (no Moons)
Game 1 I had the turn three combo based on a DD Reanimate line, but I whiffed completely (drew 10 lands from the draw 14). Died to Bolt + Snap Bolt the following turn.
Game 2 I had a clunky hand and got punished for it. Should have mulled it down. Also made a mistake by playing TTB mainphase, should have been in his upkeep in response to the last Ancestral counter coming off.
Round 3 vs Goblin Prison
Game 1 I mulled to 4...
Game 2 I won quite easy on turn 3 thanks to a DD line through a Chalice on 2 (splice action baby)
Game 3 I won through Bridge + Eidolon by using Abrade in Bridge to get an attack off with Griselbrand which gained me enough life to be able to win afterwards.
Round 4 vs Dredge
Game 1 I had the turn 3 Wurm, was enough to win
Game 2 I had the turn 2 Griselbrand (DD line again), was enough (even though I needed to draw my whole deck)
Round 5 vs Devoted Druid ID
Played it out for the price split
Game 1 I mulled down to 4, no way I this
Game I kept a clunky double removal hand (Axe + K-Return). Got punished by a Postmortem Lunge from them. He didn't play them last week so I didn't expect it.
Result: 3-1-1
Should have won the game vs UR though.
Edit says: This was the first time ever, that Dispersal was useful (in theory). I played some games vs R Prison afterwards, he established a board with: Bridge, double Needle (Griselbrand + Borbor), double Welding Jar. The two Abrades that I had looked pretty old here
Using Dispersal as an instant into a Wurm attack into another Dispersal to overall get rid of Bridge was the only line possible to win here. Hence, I might add a Watery Grave than to the deck.
I just played few games with my Griselboy at my LGS. I find it impossible to win with Death's Shadow. What to do against them?
You pray to dodge them, as simple as it is.
Only Chalice tips the match-up somewhat, and even than it is atrocious. It is nearly as bad as the old Infect match-up was.
Played today at a local event with some nice prices:
Round 1 vs Spirits:
Game 1 won by playing around CoCo into Queller but not Wanderer (he had a Lord and I had a SSG to pay, but he would be 2/2). Got rewarded, since he had a Queller in hand.
Game 2 nothing special happened, Griseldaddy ftw.
Round 2 vs UR Control (no Moons)
Game 1 I had the turn three combo based on a DD Reanimate line, but I whiffed completely (drew 10 lands from the draw 14). Died to Bolt + Snap Bolt the following turn.
Game 2 I had a clunky hand and got punished for it. Should have mulled it down. Also made a mistake by playing TTB mainphase, should have been in his upkeep in response to the last Ancestral counter coming off.
Round 3 vs Goblin Prison
Game 1 I mulled to 4...
Game 2 I won quite easy on turn 3 thanks to a DD line through a Chalice on 2 (splice action baby)
Game 3 I won through Bridge + Eidolon by using Abrade in Bridge to get an attack off with Griselbrand which gained me enough life to be able to win afterwards.
Round 4 vs Dredge
Game 1 I had the turn 3 Wurm, was enough to win
Game 2 I had the turn 2 Griselbrand (DD line again), was enough (even though I needed to draw my whole deck)
Round 5 vs Devoted Druid ID
Played it out for the price split
Game 1 I mulled down to 4, no way I this
Game I kept a clunky double removal hand (Axe + K-Return). Got punished by a Postmortem Lunge from them. He didn't play them last week so I didn't expect it.
Result: 3-1-1
Should have won the game vs UR though.
Edit says: This was the first time ever, that Dispersal was useful (in theory). I played some games vs R Prison afterwards, he established a board with: Bridge, double Needle (Griselbrand + Borbor), double Welding Jar. The two Abrades that I had looked pretty old here
Using Dispersal as an instant into a Wurm attack into another Dispersal to overall get rid of Bridge was the only line possible to win here. Hence, I might add a Watery Grave than to the deck.
hello every one
there is a lot of talk lately for banning Faithless Looting due to the dominance of Izzet Pheonix and Dredge
what do you think , is the card worth banning at this moment ?
and what about our deck, can it survive such a hit is looting get baned ?
hello every one
there is a lot of talk lately for banning Faithless Looting due to the dominance of Izzet Pheonix and Dredge
what do you think , is the card worth banning at this moment ?
and what about our deck, can it survive such a hit is looting get baned ?
I just edited my answer because we can't discuss bans or unbans in this part of the forum. I think of the 14 Warnings I've had, 13 of them has been answering these kinds of questions.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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@GolgariMage, Dispersal is garbage, you would only cast it when you are losing to begin with, where you can also go for Discovery and try to win instead (bin Grisel, draw Goryo's and hope it is enough).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
How are you?
I'm playing with Grishoal since the beggining of the year and doing pretty great. I'm playing 2 tournaments per week since the first week of the year and my Standings are x-5.
I think that the deck is well placed in nowadays meta. I just ignores HS, Phoenix, Dredge and can beat Humans and Spirits. The deck doesn't loose to control decks (really, if you play right, it's impossible to loose. I won againsta a UW with 3 path, a surgical and a celestial purge on hand. And counters... was awsome).
I'm a storm player but trying to make GriShowBrand my season deck.
But i'm having troubles with Grixis DS. The match seems unbeatable. What do you are doing in this MU to we have a chance?
I'm playing with this list:
4 Temple
2 Fastland
1 Blood crypt
4 Bloodstained
5 Swamps
2 Mountain
4 grisel
4 worm
4 SSG
2 Borb
1 Emrakul
4 goryos
4 breach
4 looting
4 shoal
4 Discovery
2 Whisper
2 Lightning axe
(Was playing with 1 conflagrate as alternative wincon and was really great, but i'm prefering the Emrakul).
Sideboard:
4 leyline sanctity
2 seize
2 brutality
1 EE
2 Abrade
2 Pact of negation
2 Anger.
How are you organizing your side/main against this MU?
Another question: someone tried the green splash for Trphy and/or time of need?
It's worthy? How do you make the manabase?
Sorry for my english
Thnx for the attention
Regarding a possible G splash. Way back in the days, when the deck first cropped up I played the G splash with Time of Need and Decay (and for possible Borbo hard cast, which came up a few times). Time of Need was rather clunky and Decay didn't offer much back in the days (not a lot of RIP cause not a lot of dedicated Graveyard decks). Nowadays Time of Need is even worse (cause it is clunky and basically a timewarp on yourself) while Decay/Trophy got better (cause rise in RIP/Leyline). Than again, Surgical is nowadays the premier graveyard hate card, so again, those two do not really work against them. Hence, I honestly do not know, if you really need them, or if the increased damage of your mana base (combined with the cut of Temples to be able to support the splash) doesn't hurt the deck more than the gains you get from running Claim/Trophy.
Would need to dig up an old list of mine for the exact mana base, but finding them after 3+ years is kinda hard
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
My only problem is DS
About the green splash, i always thinking about white leyline, not black or RIP(EE can take it out)
After board i always side out a couple of vengeance due to the format focus on GY Hate. It's really works. The problem is leyline cause you can't expect that wurm could win cause it will be path.
It's more for this case.
What do you think about my list/sideboard?
Any consideration?
Thnx
Note: It was usually either W-Leyline or Chalice in the board for GDS, cause bringing both resulted into a very week combo plan (7 slots are hard to gobble up).
I never had troubles with Leyline of Sanctity, cause a resolved Griselbrand is still game (cause you just chain draw into cheat spells + creature). Sure, it is not as nice and clean as a simple Borbo kill but not many decks are capable of winning through a draw 14 from this deck. It only ever was a problem if it was combined with things like RIP or Needle on Griselbrand.
If you really want a decent out to it but not invest into a full splash (which I would do), add a Watery Grave to your MD so that you can cast Dispersal (card still sucks, but can deal with a Leyline). Should be a more elegant solution imo.
Regarding your deck, not that big fan of the single Emmi MD, but I can understand it and several players really liked it (I never was one of them ^^ ). Otherwise the MD is quite the stock list to say it this way. It seems to me that you are missing 3 cards, I assume they are 3 Desperate Rituals.
For the SB, since you are already cutting back on the Vengeance (which I also do in several match-ups) you can think about adding a Quicksilver Amulet to your SB, which is a more robust way to cheat in the creatures (although obviously slower). Would be basically a 5th TTB. Otherwise there is the discussion between Chalice of the Void and Leyline (you can hardly afford boarding both of them in the match-ups you want them). If you want to hedge purely against DRS than Chalice is better, Leyline offers Discard protection from turn 1, Chalice needs to get handled or they lose. Of course, you can be greedy and play both (and go -2 Vengeance, -1 Looting, -1 Desperate Ritual, -1 Shoal, -2 Lightning Axe when you board), but it is REALLY cutting deep into the meat of the deck. Keep in mind that usually any kind of TTB creature is game against them. Also, if you bring in Chalice vs them then you usually do not bring in Pact (cause it would be redundant to say it this way).
Regarding Pact, there is always the possibility to run Defense Grid, however I steered away from it since it makes EoT stuff harder, which is something you always want to do vs Control decks (where you would bring in Grid).
Not really a fan from the two Brutalities btw.
Oh, and I would play one Shatterstorm in the SB, 4c Whir is on the uptic and it is a REALLY good deck, hence, having an "oops I win" button is always nice to have (it is also a good card vs Affinity/Hardening Scales).
I'm not really a fan from the Brutalities. I know their value, but I never boarded them in in the match-ups where I would have wanted it, since I had higher impact spells (Chalice e.g.). So that would be a card for me to cut.
That's it I think.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
If i'll prefer to use Chalice, what should i take out? The leylines?
Because leyline is here husto for discards (i don't use it against burn or direct damage)
I don't like defense grid too. Often i win in opponent's turn. It's the advabtage of a instant speed combo kill.
The missing slots in MD are 2 Desperate and a Manamorphose
Bontu's seems better than anger for the meta or anger is fine?
Hiw do you build tour side and how are you going on the Stands?
I'm really satisfy with the deck performance. He looks great for the meta. Just DS bother us ://
Yeah that is my question as well, choosing between Anger and Bontu is tough, why would we pick the latter?
Also, what about the PENTAD PRISM. I don't have them yet but it seems so nice to store some mana. I found that in the past people used this card in the deck. What happened and why it is not around? Have anyone tested it before?
Pentad Prism - http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=205331
With the resurgence of BG it is kinda difficult. I would personally just accept that DS is a bad match-up and just run Leyline instead, which are still decent vs them, just not as backbreaking as Chalice. So I would board in 4 Leylines and 2-3 Pact of Negation (depending on how many cards you have to board out). Note: Leyline is better in lists which are playing Tormenting Voice/Reunion, since you can discard excessive ones later in the game.
Bontu vs Anger, it depends on what you want to have. Anger is better vs aggro, Bontu better vs big dumb creature boards (Humans, Eldarzie and Death Shadow). Hence, if you are expecting lots of fast Aggro decks, where you would want an Sweeper, bring Anger, otherwise Bontu. Though, I would personally run a split between them (1-1) with a singe target removal spell in addition. More often than not you just want to kill that one creature instead of the whole board.
Regarding the Sweepers, see above.
Pentad Prism got cut from the Shoal version quite early. It is clunky (you need to play it on turn 2), it enables different interaction spells (Decay/Trophy) and only makes the TTB kill a turn faster (compared to a SSG/Ritual). In the Fist version you needed it to be able to filter the mana, in the classic all in version you kinda wanted it to have somewhat reliable turn 3 TTB (NOTE: This was way back, when more Maelstrom Pulse saw more play than Decays) and in the more midrangy versions you never wanted it, since it was a dead card.
Hence, if you do not want to go back to the all in version without Shoal (so with either Fury and/or Soul Spike) do not play that card. Ritual is way better, since it also allows splice action (which comes up a lot).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Basically Morphose >>>>>>> Wild Cantor >> Pentad Prism
(and than again, I would only play Morphose if you REALLY want that effect in the deck, since it has such a low base power in this deck compared to Phoenix)
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Same thing happens if you splice Goryo's on Shoal and the target gets removed.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
is it the same when you cast nourishing shoal splicing breach..and an opponent cast skullcrack in response does the breach also fizzles due to not being able to gain life?
That is something completely different.
Basically, a spell fizzles (if it is already casted and on the stack), if all the available targets got invalid due to different reasons. For example, if you cast a Bolt targeting a creature and the opponent casts Dive Down on it, the Bolt has no legal targets anymore and thus fizzles.
However, as long as the spell has legal targets (if it required one, example would be Opt, no legal target required in this case) than the spell won't fizzle even though it would do nothing.
Example: If you Remand a creature which is un-counterable due to Cavern of Souls, Remand will try to counter the spell, but the spell cannot be counter --> That half of the Spell does nothing. However, Remand has further text which says "Draw a Card".
This means the creature will resolve but you are able to draw a card.
Similar to this is a Shoal with a spliced TTB. You have no targets for the spell so the spell cannot fizzle in this regard. When the opponent now casts Skullcrack or Atarka's Command (or anything like this), you simply won't get any life but you will still get the TTB effect.
Those things are important to know, when you try to win via a splice goryo into a normal cast goyro in response to graveyard hate. If you use any Arcane card, which has no targets (e.g. Shoal and Ritual) it will fizzle if you use Goryo's spliced on it, if the target of Goryo's gets invalid. If you would use Glacial Ray instead (which targets something) and you splice a Goryo's on it, even if the target for Goryo's gets invalid, Glacial Ray still has a target and thus that part of the spell still resolves (the other part fizzles due to not having any legal target).
That is the reason, why a Cryptic with counter + draw gets "countered" if you use a Remand to bounce your own spell. Since it loses it's only target it fizzles and the opp cannot draw a card (and that is also a big reason, why Remand is so good in those control match-ups).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I just played few games with my Griselboy at my LGS. I find it impossible to win with Death's Shadow. What to do against them?
Only Chalice tips the match-up somewhat, and even than it is atrocious. It is nearly as bad as the old Infect match-up was.
Played today at a local event with some nice prices:
Round 1 vs Spirits:
Game 1 won by playing around CoCo into Queller but not Wanderer (he had a Lord and I had a SSG to pay, but he would be 2/2). Got rewarded, since he had a Queller in hand.
Game 2 nothing special happened, Griseldaddy ftw.
Round 2 vs UR Control (no Moons)
Game 1 I had the turn three combo based on a DD Reanimate line, but I whiffed completely (drew 10 lands from the draw 14). Died to Bolt + Snap Bolt the following turn.
Game 2 I had a clunky hand and got punished for it. Should have mulled it down. Also made a mistake by playing TTB mainphase, should have been in his upkeep in response to the last Ancestral counter coming off.
Round 3 vs Goblin Prison
Game 1 I mulled to 4...
Game 2 I won quite easy on turn 3 thanks to a DD line through a Chalice on 2 (splice action baby)
Game 3 I won through Bridge + Eidolon by using Abrade in Bridge to get an attack off with Griselbrand which gained me enough life to be able to win afterwards.
Round 4 vs Dredge
Game 1 I had the turn 3 Wurm, was enough to win
Game 2 I had the turn 2 Griselbrand (DD line again), was enough (even though I needed to draw my whole deck)
Round 5 vs Devoted Druid ID
Played it out for the price split
Game 1 I mulled down to 4, no way I this
Game I kept a clunky double removal hand (Axe + K-Return). Got punished by a Postmortem Lunge from them. He didn't play them last week so I didn't expect it.
Result: 3-1-1
Should have won the game vs UR though.
Edit says: This was the first time ever, that Dispersal was useful (in theory). I played some games vs R Prison afterwards, he established a board with: Bridge, double Needle (Griselbrand + Borbor), double Welding Jar. The two Abrades that I had looked pretty old here
Using Dispersal as an instant into a Wurm attack into another Dispersal to overall get rid of Bridge was the only line possible to win here. Hence, I might add a Watery Grave than to the deck.
Oh, btw, decklist:
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Temple of Malice
5 Swamp
2 Mountain
//Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Griselbrand
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Faithless Looting
4 Discovery // Dispersal
2 Night's Whisper
1 Tormenting Voice
2 Lightning Axe
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Nourishing Shoal
1 Manamorphose
4 Through the Breach
2 Pact of Negation
2 Thoughtseize
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Collective Brutality
2 Abrade
1 Engineered Explosives
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
what match-ups do you usually board in the thoughtseize's & kozilek's return?..isn't 18 lands a li'l greedy?
there is a lot of talk lately for banning Faithless Looting due to the dominance of Izzet Pheonix and Dredge
what do you think , is the card worth banning at this moment ?
and what about our deck, can it survive such a hit is looting get baned ?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)