Matchup lottery did definitely not favor me this time around.
Round 1 - 4-color Death's Shadow
My teammate. I know what he's playing but don't know his exact current version.
G1: He plays 3 discard spells but no pressure. I loot and hug. Eventually I draw a vengeance and go off.
-Brutality, -Axe, -Wurm, -Breach, -Ritual, -Looting, +Chalices, +Moons, +EE
G2: I realize my mistake of siding in Chalices on the draw when he plays DS and spellbomb on turn two. This time he had no discard but quick pressure (with spellbomb as disruption).
G3: Same sideplan. Mull to a questionable 6 of temples and card draw. Decide to keep as it's kind of ok vs. discard. He gets an early Tarmogoyf and some discard. I'm on the backfoot the whole game, and manage to land a Chalice, which he Decays. Then I get down a Moon, but the Goyf gets me before I find the combo. 1-2 (0-1)
This truly feels like a bad matchup. A quick Moon would be lights out, but it's hard to stick against a discard deck.
Round 2 - 5-color homebrew
G1: He plays Inquisition, Lingering Souls, Bolt and Helix, so I'm thinking some sort of Mardu midrange. He always has a white source open, so I'm afraid to Breach a Wurm in fear of a Path. He suprises me by fetching a green shockland and drops a Bloodbraid Elf! Cascade hits Kolaghan's Command and I'm forced to form a new plan. He attacks, I shoal and survive with one open mana and SSG, Vengeance, Breach in hand and a Borb in the yard. I feel my only way to win is to Vengeance in his end step and either draw a creature or hit enough lands with Borb. I draw a Wurm and Breach for the win. His lone card was all the time a Forest, not a Path.
-Axe, -Brutality, +EE, +Spree
G2: He plays a turn 2 RIP, I counter with an EE. I sculpt a nice hand against no pressure, and finally Breach a Wurm with a Vengeance backup-plan. He Terminates the Wurm but the tokens go all the way.
After the games he shows me how he sided in 3 RIPs and 2 Surgicals. 2-0 (1-1)
Round 3 - Lantern
At this point I've seen most decks in the event. There's some Trons, Goblin deck, UR Breach, at least one more brew and a Zombie Hunt in addition to the 4-c DS and the rainbowbrew I've played. I was hoping to face a nice heavy Tron or a slow midrange deck. My prayers went unanswered.
G1: I look at my hand and a t2 Griseldaddy stares back at me. I play my land and loot away the demon. He lauhgs, plays a Spire of Industry, Bauble and passes. Lantern. Our enemy #1. Well, what's he gonna do against a turn 2 Necropotence-on-a-stick. Game one: a homerun. I count my blessings and move to sideboarding.
-Axe, -Brutality, -Wurm, -Breach, +Sprees, +EE
G2: He plays a turn one Cage and a turn two Lantern + millrock. I loot a Griselbrand and play an EE for one. T4 he draws a Pithing Needle and goes deep into the tank. I have 4 cards in hand. He has an Whir on top. He decides to hold his Needle and plays a second Bridge. I have a chance to go for it, and I take it: Endstep break EE and mainstep Vengeance. I drew 14, shoaled a Borb and drew 7 more (at 7 life). Then I ran out of shoals. Gasp. I have the option to either exile a mana-ape to loot, or exile two apes to spree and attack, or play red land and/or manamorphose before any of these. I decide not to morphose and instead burn the bridges and attack to draw 7. Jackpot. Land>SSG>Loot away a Borb>Manamorphose for B>Vengeance Borbie>throw enough lands in his face to slay the metallic dragon! Wohoo! 2-0 (2-1)
Round 4 - Storm
We know what each other is playing, and agree that the dice roll in crucial in this matchup. I end up losing the roll.
G1: I have almost a perfect hand, only missing one land to t2 combo. I draw, loot and Whisper for a few turns. Nope. When I finally hit the second land, he Remands me twice and goes off.
-Hugs, -Wurm, -Breach, +Chalices, +Pacts. I'm quite sure he sides the Goblin-plan out, and some permission in. I consider bringing in Nahiri's for more removal/enabler.
G2: I start with a good hand of Pact, Brutality, Vengeance and a Looting. He plays a turn 2 Electromancer. I Brutality it and see a hand of Negate, Remand and a Swan Song which I bin. He plays a land, performs a Sleight a Hand and passes. I reanimate the big guy, he remands and I pact. I proceed to an easy win.
-Chalice +EE
G3: I mull to a questionable 6 with chalice and some card draw. He also mulled to 6 and scried to bottom. I spent my first turns sculpting, and then play the Chalice. He plays a Baral. I draw a Brutality, and consider playing it, but opt to play a looting and a scryland instead. The reasoning was that he had mana open for a Remand, and I needed to advance my board if I ever dreamed of winning. Well, got punished. He went for it and got there. 1-2 (2-2)
Maybe should have sided out the last Chalice as well, and bring in Nahiri's as an additional way of removal?
2-2. Well the games went 6-4 against a very hostile field, and I won against the #1 enemy, so I'm definitely content with the result.
Notes on the deck:
-The Hugs are (finally) starting to grow on me. I specifically like them against discard, as they represent a whole 3 new cards for them to worry about.
-I like the lone EE on the side. It's very easy to bring in blind.
-I'm testing a Nahiri's Wrath on the side for midrange matchups. Serves as an extra enabler and a way to buy time against Goyfs and such.
-It would be nice to hear how good Grave Titan has been. I don't own any yet and am considering buying some.
/J
Nahiri's Wrath is kind of interesting, but a lot has to go right for it to be super effective I think. Kind of high ceiling low floor. I'd be curious to test it.
Grave titan so far has been ok, but I haven't had time to focus on Modern much lately unfortunately. It makes sense to me in theory, would like to hear if people have found it good. The two times I've resolved it it won the game for me.
I will be pretty much swapping out bant knightfall for one of these goryo's decks. Of the two, which one is better moving forward; the esper goryo version, or the grishoalbrand version. As I am only able to invest into one of these so the initial decision is rather important for me.
I've tried both. Esper Ghostdaddy's pretty fun and interactive. If you like grinding and making midrange decisions you may like it.
If you like the combo archetype where you can combo kill on turn 2 and is versatile enough to not be dead to a single hate piece, this may be for you. If you are purely competitive and want to maximize your chance of spiking a tournament or two, Grishoalbrand is most certainly the choice.
This could be manaical, but how about playing Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard? Aim is to have a 1 card win condition vs. Humans/Hollow One/Shadows/Bogles/Eldrazi variants whoa re not likely to have answers to a Bridge post-board
I will be pretty much swapping out bant knightfall for one of these goryo's decks. Of the two, which one is better moving forward; the esper goryo version, or the grishoalbrand version. As I am only able to invest into one of these so the initial decision is rather important for me.
Modern is a format with a lot of decks that don't interact that well against each other. My personal strategy for modern is either go way over the top(tron), don't let them cast or do anything(blood moon/chalice/bridge decks), balls out aggro(infect/affinity/human), or un-interactive combo decks(this deck/ad naus/storm). I don't like midrange/control that much because if your answer doesn't match their threat then you lose.
This could be manaical, but how about playing Ensnaring Bridge in the sideboard? Aim is to have a 1 card win condition vs. Humans/Hollow One/Shadows/Bogles/Eldrazi variants whoa re not likely to have answers to a Bridge post-board
That's spicy! The tricky part, I think is managing the number of cards in your own hand. You'll need to keep your hand small enough that they can't attack through the bridge, but at the same time build towards comboing off (which more than likely will be with TTB as opposed to Goryo's, since GY hate is more common in those matchups). Worth testing for sure though.
You were correct to side in Chalice of the Void on the draw as well. Sometimes it won't be enough. GDS is a very resilient and strong deck. But if even only to counter Stubborn Denial, Chalice of the Void is good here.
I had a game recently where I lost after resolving turn 1 Chalice of the Void, turn 3 Blood Moon. He had a basic Swamp, played some countered discard into the Chalice, and then played Gurmag Angler. I lost, while not finding any win-cons after those lock pieces. The worst part was that I drew 3 Night's Whisper and a Cathartic Reunion, so you'd think I would have gotten there. Nope, just an Ape to chump one turn.
Private Mod Note
():
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
read the bone(good against control and midrange)
grave titan-unexpected win condition that can be hard cast and breached(leaves 4 tokens)
extra collective brutality-this card always over perform. Triple mode versus burn feels like cheating.
I generally like 1 abrade but since you already run 2 engineered explosives I don't think it is necessary.
I've been on grishoalbrand for about a year now, and was inspired by Finalnub to start recording match stats. Since I began recording, i'm 31-12, including two FNM 4-0's in paper and a 5-0 league (72% winrate!!). Until now, I have mostly observed and have not weighed in, but I feel it is time to mention a few things i've noticed.
I want to start by thanking Finalnub for the super in-depth primers. It was awesome to see that I had found the vast majority of the lines with the deck at one point or another, but it was also awesome to learn something. Until this primer I was not aware of the advantages of responding to a worldspine shuffle in the cleanup step - and I used this little interaction against a UW control player the very day after I learned it. Thanks!
---
This segues nicely into my first observation - in addition to the splice bug, I found that MTGO does not properly handle Angel's Grace and this shuffle trigger. In one of my MTGO matches, I threw a land at an opponent in response to the shuffle trigger during the cleanup step and they did not take damage, as the Angel's Grace did not properly wear off. Lucky for me he did not have a second one during his upkeep, but just another small % bug to be aware of.
---
For most of my recorded games, I stuck pretty close to Finalnub's board strategy. After a rough 2-3 league where I was hit by 2+ thoughtseize/iok per game for 4 of my 5 rounds, I decided to try out Leyline of Sanctity. Boy is that card great! With the heavy trend towards nihil spellbomb right now, not only do you blank your opponents hand disruption, you blank their graveyard disruption too! I really can't believe how good it has been. If you guys haven't tried it out yet, it feels excellent in this meta.
---
The last thing i'll touch on is Quicksilver Amulet. I was enamored with the idea of boarding out 1 goryo's and boarding in 1-2 quicksilver amulets to hedge against graveyard interaction game 2-3, but overall I would say this card is not worth it. The thing that really kills it is the lack of haste. Worldspine wurm and Quicksilver amulet is a 3-turn endeavor. I will always be on the lookout for a new card that functions like TTB out of the board, but this is not it. Try it or don't, but that's where I stand on it right now. I've seen Necrotic Ooze come up a bit here, but I think that is not the direction you want to go. The problem g2/3 is always graveyard hate. I guess ooze is pretty sweet if grafdigger's cage becomes the #1 graveyard hate card, but overall it just feels like playing into your opponent's disruption.
---
Thats all i've got for now, thanks for the discussion in this thread - it's been super helpful to me over the course of learning this deck!
It's always nice to see players crushing with Grishoalbrand. Good job! Keep it up.
Regarding the discarding the Worldspine Wurm after End Step Goryo's Vengeance on Borborygmos Enraged, I'm not surprised. I have told this interaction to people in person and many of them doubt it works this way. I don't know why so many people doubt me on rulings. Just a few years ago, players would ask ME rather than the Judge at FNM about rulings and I'd have to say, "you should ask the official Judge."
Leyline of Sanctity and I have a love/hate relationship. I played 4 in the SB of Bogles for many years. I was upset that I never had one in my opener or drew one in the game for the first 4-6 months that I played the deck, so I felt that variance. The first time I even had one in my opener was the in the Top 4 of the very first PPTQ season and it won me games 2 and 3 vs. Jund. I went on to win that PPTQ. So, it's kind of odd. On one hand, I'm upset that I didn't get Leyline before, but the timing on those in games 2 and 3 was impeccable. In our deck if we draw one later, it can easily be Cathartic Reunion or Faithless Looting fodder. We can also cast one with Manamorphose if needed. I would be down to try 4 in the SB if I was still playing the deck regularly, but my meta doesn't have too many discard decks. Shadow is waaaaaay down, Mardu Reveler is 1 out of 30 people at most, and I have been dodging the Jund players. There still are 2-3 Burn players, so I could certainly see it, but I feel at least a little bit like it may not be for my meta.
Quicksilver Amulet, that brings back memories. I remember being excited to get the Urza's Legacy copies because it was around that time when I loved playing the game so much. I tried it in the SB and quickly (no pun intended) found out that it felt very subpar. It takes too much mana to use because usually you want to Desperate Ritual it in to play, then use SSG to get out the creature. I don't remember all of why I didn't like it; I just remember when I go through my cards looking for some odd card, I always take a second to look at my 2 copies of that card.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
In short, you can respond to the worldspine shuffle trigger during the cleanup step, after pesky things like Angels Grace have worn off for the turn.
You can also leverage discarding to hand size to get a guy in the yard, and goryos in response to a worldspine shuffle to go off before your opponent can untap. This was relevant in a game against UW control where I night's whispered to 9 cards, pitched worldspine and griselbrand to hand size and went off before my opponent could untap. Without this interaction, you would have to wait until your opponents upkeep.
It's a relatively rare sequence of events where this matters, but it's nice to know.
Or should I just stick to Blood Moons + EE and use the last space for something else?
Jund attacks mainly in the angle of hand discard+graveyard hate. If they can't attack your graveyard, you really don't need ooze. Hazoret dies to liliana. Grave titan has been the best 1 card trump against jund since liliana can't do anything and they board out most other removals. Personally i like boarding in 4x leyline+1 engineered explosives+1 grave titan against jund.
Hello, it is now 5/6 months that I play GriselDaddy.
I am looking to gain experience with the deck, in paper very exclusively. I have to go this weekend to an event, I don't know exactly which side to choose. I'm getting used to this one (Finalnub GP):
1 Collective Brutality
3 Blood Moon
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pact of Negation
2 Shattering Spree
but since the unban sides are more like this:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pact of Negation
1 Lightning Axe
1 Shattering Spree
2 Collective Brutality
3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Grave Titan
Several questions :
Blood Moon and Leyline can't be together because they are for the same MU?
What are the MUs where LL have to be in? And should we force 100% to have it in the starting hand in some games?
Are not we weaker against control.deck now?
In which MU does the titan have to be side? Is it really so impacting? And instead of what?
Thanks so much,
B00NTY.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vizier company GWB- Dredge GBR - TitanShift GR - Grishoalbrand BR - Burn WR - Elves GB - Colorless Eldrazi X - U tron U
I've been on grishoalbrand for about a year now, and was inspired by Finalnub to start recording match stats. Since I began recording, i'm 31-12, including two FNM 4-0's in paper and a 5-0 league (72% winrate!!). Until now, I have mostly observed and have not weighed in, but I feel it is time to mention a few things i've noticed.
I want to start by thanking Finalnub for the super in-depth primers. It was awesome to see that I had found the vast majority of the lines with the deck at one point or another, but it was also awesome to learn something. Until this primer I was not aware of the advantages of responding to a worldspine shuffle in the cleanup step - and I used this little interaction against a UW control player the very day after I learned it. Thanks!
---
This segues nicely into my first observation - in addition to the splice bug, I found that MTGO does not properly handle Angel's Grace and this shuffle trigger. In one of my MTGO matches, I threw a land at an opponent in response to the shuffle trigger during the cleanup step and they did not take damage, as the Angel's Grace did not properly wear off. Lucky for me he did not have a second one during his upkeep, but just another small % bug to be aware of.
---
For most of my recorded games, I stuck pretty close to Finalnub's board strategy. After a rough 2-3 league where I was hit by 2+ thoughtseize/iok per game for 4 of my 5 rounds, I decided to try out Leyline of Sanctity. Boy is that card great! With the heavy trend towards nihil spellbomb right now, not only do you blank your opponents hand disruption, you blank their graveyard disruption too! I really can't believe how good it has been. If you guys haven't tried it out yet, it feels excellent in this meta.
---
The last thing i'll touch on is Quicksilver Amulet. I was enamored with the idea of boarding out 1 goryo's and boarding in 1-2 quicksilver amulets to hedge against graveyard interaction game 2-3, but overall I would say this card is not worth it. The thing that really kills it is the lack of haste. Worldspine wurm and Quicksilver amulet is a 3-turn endeavor. I will always be on the lookout for a new card that functions like TTB out of the board, but this is not it. Try it or don't, but that's where I stand on it right now. I've seen Necrotic Ooze come up a bit here, but I think that is not the direction you want to go. The problem g2/3 is always graveyard hate. I guess ooze is pretty sweet if grafdigger's cage becomes the #1 graveyard hate card, but overall it just feels like playing into your opponent's disruption.
---
Thats all i've got for now, thanks for the discussion in this thread - it's been super helpful to me over the course of learning this deck!
Welcome! Glad you found those helfpul and always good to read tournament reports. Keep it up!
Re: grace, yes I found that to be the case as well. I wouldn't try it on MTGO. Also I think Quicksilver Amulet is a bit too clunky to me. It's slow and it doesn't necessarily make us threat dense. YMMV though and if it works well for you, let us know!
Hello, it is now 5/6 months that I play GriselDaddy.
I am looking to gain experience with the deck, in paper very exclusively. I have to go this weekend to an event, I don't know exactly which side to choose. I'm getting used to this one (Finalnub GP):
1 Collective Brutality
3 Blood Moon
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pact of Negation
2 Shattering Spree
but since the unban sides are more like this:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pact of Negation
1 Lightning Axe
1 Shattering Spree
2 Collective Brutality
3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Grave Titan
Several questions :
Blood Moon and Leyline can't be together because they are for the same MU?
What are the MUs where LL have to be in? And should we force 100% to have it in the starting hand in some games?
Are not we weaker against control.deck now?
In which MU does the titan have to be side? Is it really so impacting? And instead of what?
Thanks so much,
B00NTY.
Agree that Chalice is no longer needed
Leyline is for BGx/shadows/Lantern/Burn/Valakut generally. I would not mulligan for it. If you have a good generic combo hand just keep that. Your plan A is still going to be better than your opponent's on average.
We've always had a good matchup vs control and I don't think anything's changed that. With my latest configuration we lose chalices and blood moon and we still have powerful tools in Pact of Negation and Collective Brutailty.
Grave Titan is for matchups where games tend to go long like BGx and control. Provides threat density and it's not a bad breach target either (6 power deathtouch that leaves 8 power behind) that you can actually just hardcast. BGx will have a very hard time beating a resolved Grave Titan. Side out some fatihless lootings as they are likely to be more GY hate centric post board and it's card disadvantage
Or should I just stick to Blood Moons + EE and use the last space for something else?
Granted, both Hazoret and Grave Titan would be hard to beat on its own for BGx, but the restriction on Hazoret may mean she doesn't always work like you want her to work.
I've been fine with replacing the moons and chalices with Leylines. I've also toyed around with Arguel's Blood Fast. Arguel's just a rough sketch in my mind so far though - haven't had a chance to test.
Very intriguing. I think it’s not going to do enough, but this seems to be a natural fit with Goryo’s Vengeance. Even if it were an instant it might find a way to be playable, but sorcery plus 5cmc is probably too high a bar to clear.
I suppose gifts ungiven plus unburial rites is already just better
Grave titan so far has been ok, but I haven't had time to focus on Modern much lately unfortunately. It makes sense to me in theory, would like to hear if people have found it good. The two times I've resolved it it won the game for me.
If you like the combo archetype where you can combo kill on turn 2 and is versatile enough to not be dead to a single hate piece, this may be for you. If you are purely competitive and want to maximize your chance of spiking a tournament or two, Grishoalbrand is most certainly the choice.
Modern is a format with a lot of decks that don't interact that well against each other. My personal strategy for modern is either go way over the top(tron), don't let them cast or do anything(blood moon/chalice/bridge decks), balls out aggro(infect/affinity/human), or un-interactive combo decks(this deck/ad naus/storm). I don't like midrange/control that much because if your answer doesn't match their threat then you lose.
That's spicy! The tricky part, I think is managing the number of cards in your own hand. You'll need to keep your hand small enough that they can't attack through the bridge, but at the same time build towards comboing off (which more than likely will be with TTB as opposed to Goryo's, since GY hate is more common in those matchups). Worth testing for sure though.
I had a game recently where I lost after resolving turn 1 Chalice of the Void, turn 3 Blood Moon. He had a basic Swamp, played some countered discard into the Chalice, and then played Gurmag Angler. I lost, while not finding any win-cons after those lock pieces. The worst part was that I drew 3 Night's Whisper and a Cathartic Reunion, so you'd think I would have gotten there. Nope, just an Ape to chump one turn.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Am about to buy into this and start grinding this on modo for a team modern event.
Leyline and blood moon are not available, considering that what advice would you have for this list?
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
Instant
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Through the Breach
1 Manamorphose
1 Lightning Axe
2 Cathartic Reunion
1 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
4 Night's Whisper
Land
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Temple of Malice
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Collective Brutality
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Nahiri's Wrath
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pact of Negation
2 Shattering Spree
1 Sudden Shock
read the bone(good against control and midrange)
grave titan-unexpected win condition that can be hard cast and breached(leaves 4 tokens)
extra collective brutality-this card always over perform. Triple mode versus burn feels like cheating.
I generally like 1 abrade but since you already run 2 engineered explosives I don't think it is necessary.
I've been on grishoalbrand for about a year now, and was inspired by Finalnub to start recording match stats. Since I began recording, i'm 31-12, including two FNM 4-0's in paper and a 5-0 league (72% winrate!!). Until now, I have mostly observed and have not weighed in, but I feel it is time to mention a few things i've noticed.
I want to start by thanking Finalnub for the super in-depth primers. It was awesome to see that I had found the vast majority of the lines with the deck at one point or another, but it was also awesome to learn something. Until this primer I was not aware of the advantages of responding to a worldspine shuffle in the cleanup step - and I used this little interaction against a UW control player the very day after I learned it. Thanks!
---
This segues nicely into my first observation - in addition to the splice bug, I found that MTGO does not properly handle Angel's Grace and this shuffle trigger. In one of my MTGO matches, I threw a land at an opponent in response to the shuffle trigger during the cleanup step and they did not take damage, as the Angel's Grace did not properly wear off. Lucky for me he did not have a second one during his upkeep, but just another small % bug to be aware of.
---
For most of my recorded games, I stuck pretty close to Finalnub's board strategy. After a rough 2-3 league where I was hit by 2+ thoughtseize/iok per game for 4 of my 5 rounds, I decided to try out Leyline of Sanctity. Boy is that card great! With the heavy trend towards nihil spellbomb right now, not only do you blank your opponents hand disruption, you blank their graveyard disruption too! I really can't believe how good it has been. If you guys haven't tried it out yet, it feels excellent in this meta.
---
The last thing i'll touch on is Quicksilver Amulet. I was enamored with the idea of boarding out 1 goryo's and boarding in 1-2 quicksilver amulets to hedge against graveyard interaction game 2-3, but overall I would say this card is not worth it. The thing that really kills it is the lack of haste. Worldspine wurm and Quicksilver amulet is a 3-turn endeavor. I will always be on the lookout for a new card that functions like TTB out of the board, but this is not it. Try it or don't, but that's where I stand on it right now. I've seen Necrotic Ooze come up a bit here, but I think that is not the direction you want to go. The problem g2/3 is always graveyard hate. I guess ooze is pretty sweet if grafdigger's cage becomes the #1 graveyard hate card, but overall it just feels like playing into your opponent's disruption.
---
Thats all i've got for now, thanks for the discussion in this thread - it's been super helpful to me over the course of learning this deck!
Regarding the discarding the Worldspine Wurm after End Step Goryo's Vengeance on Borborygmos Enraged, I'm not surprised. I have told this interaction to people in person and many of them doubt it works this way. I don't know why so many people doubt me on rulings. Just a few years ago, players would ask ME rather than the Judge at FNM about rulings and I'd have to say, "you should ask the official Judge."
Leyline of Sanctity and I have a love/hate relationship. I played 4 in the SB of Bogles for many years. I was upset that I never had one in my opener or drew one in the game for the first 4-6 months that I played the deck, so I felt that variance. The first time I even had one in my opener was the in the Top 4 of the very first PPTQ season and it won me games 2 and 3 vs. Jund. I went on to win that PPTQ. So, it's kind of odd. On one hand, I'm upset that I didn't get Leyline before, but the timing on those in games 2 and 3 was impeccable. In our deck if we draw one later, it can easily be Cathartic Reunion or Faithless Looting fodder. We can also cast one with Manamorphose if needed. I would be down to try 4 in the SB if I was still playing the deck regularly, but my meta doesn't have too many discard decks. Shadow is waaaaaay down, Mardu Reveler is 1 out of 30 people at most, and I have been dodging the Jund players. There still are 2-3 Burn players, so I could certainly see it, but I feel at least a little bit like it may not be for my meta.
Quicksilver Amulet, that brings back memories. I remember being excited to get the Urza's Legacy copies because it was around that time when I loved playing the game so much. I tried it in the SB and quickly (no pun intended) found out that it felt very subpar. It takes too much mana to use because usually you want to Desperate Ritual it in to play, then use SSG to get out the creature. I don't remember all of why I didn't like it; I just remember when I go through my cards looking for some odd card, I always take a second to look at my 2 copies of that card.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)You can also leverage discarding to hand size to get a guy in the yard, and goryos in response to a worldspine shuffle to go off before your opponent can untap. This was relevant in a game against UW control where I night's whispered to 9 cards, pitched worldspine and griselbrand to hand size and went off before my opponent could untap. Without this interaction, you would have to wait until your opponents upkeep.
It's a relatively rare sequence of events where this matters, but it's nice to know.
Jund attacks mainly in the angle of hand discard+graveyard hate. If they can't attack your graveyard, you really don't need ooze. Hazoret dies to liliana. Grave titan has been the best 1 card trump against jund since liliana can't do anything and they board out most other removals. Personally i like boarding in 4x leyline+1 engineered explosives+1 grave titan against jund.
I am looking to gain experience with the deck, in paper very exclusively. I have to go this weekend to an event, I don't know exactly which side to choose. I'm getting used to this one (Finalnub GP):
1 Collective Brutality
3 Blood Moon
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pact of Negation
2 Shattering Spree
but since the unban sides are more like this:
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pact of Negation
1 Lightning Axe
1 Shattering Spree
2 Collective Brutality
3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Grave Titan
Several questions :
Blood Moon and Leyline can't be together because they are for the same MU?
What are the MUs where LL have to be in? And should we force 100% to have it in the starting hand in some games?
Are not we weaker against control.deck now?
In which MU does the titan have to be side? Is it really so impacting? And instead of what?
Thanks so much,
B00NTY.
Welcome! Glad you found those helfpul and always good to read tournament reports. Keep it up!
Re: grace, yes I found that to be the case as well. I wouldn't try it on MTGO. Also I think Quicksilver Amulet is a bit too clunky to me. It's slow and it doesn't necessarily make us threat dense. YMMV though and if it works well for you, let us know!
Agree that Chalice is no longer needed
Leyline is for BGx/shadows/Lantern/Burn/Valakut generally. I would not mulligan for it. If you have a good generic combo hand just keep that. Your plan A is still going to be better than your opponent's on average.
We've always had a good matchup vs control and I don't think anything's changed that. With my latest configuration we lose chalices and blood moon and we still have powerful tools in Pact of Negation and Collective Brutailty.
Grave Titan is for matchups where games tend to go long like BGx and control. Provides threat density and it's not a bad breach target either (6 power deathtouch that leaves 8 power behind) that you can actually just hardcast. BGx will have a very hard time beating a resolved Grave Titan. Side out some fatihless lootings as they are likely to be more GY hate centric post board and it's card disadvantage
I've been fine with replacing the moons and chalices with Leylines. I've also toyed around with Arguel's Blood Fast. Arguel's just a rough sketch in my mind so far though - haven't had a chance to test.
Are the current numbers of EE/Shattering Spree enough to fight it?
Very intriguing. I think it’s not going to do enough, but this seems to be a natural fit with Goryo’s Vengeance. Even if it were an instant it might find a way to be playable, but sorcery plus 5cmc is probably too high a bar to clear.
I suppose gifts ungiven plus unburial rites is already just better