depending on the texture of the game. you'll need some reps to recognise when you should fire off the t1/t2 shoal vs a particular opponent and when to hold it and wait for a window. also, if your opponent is good you will need to breach or vengeance in a griselbrand on their end step so a skullcrack in response to your spell doesn't end you
What you said are mostly right. If you griselbrand on their end step, you should proceed to the attack first. That way, they need to respond or you are going to lifelink for 7 damages. If/when they path/palm/skullcrack in response to your attack, then you can make your move.
Also, you are overlooking the fact that you are bringing in brutalities and pact of negations. Brutality helps you optimize your line, and pact goes over the top of what they are doing. Pact and brutality makes the matchup significantly easier postboard, and has a wide range of application.
As I said though, it depends on the texture of the match and how well your opponent knows the matchup. VS novice burn players who waits to skullcrack until after the reanimation/breach (most of them), the matchup is quite favorable. If you think your opponent is highly skilled, feel free to fire off the turn 1/2 shoal and give yourself enough time to sculpt a winning hand with brutalities/pacts.
BR version still cannot beat a deflecting palm. They are slightly better vs paths and skullcrack. Emrakul not being a 1HKO can be a real liability given you may find it diffult to deal the last 5 damage (note that since the introduction of inspiring vantage, it's become unrealible to expect them to do 5 damages to themselves via lands).
I would play a Stomping Ground over the fourth Temple tbh.
Otherwise, the list looks solid (even though I'm not a fan of Time of Need). In the SB I wouldn't play Qicksilver but instead 2 Pacts, which will help against Control, which sees a lot of play currently.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I'm playing a bit of 4x Ghalta shoal version over the 4 wurms for *****s and giggles. Spoilers: don't bother. Legendary is great and all, but no follow up threat is as bad as it sounds in theory.
I was always reluctant to cast Hugs (didn't know what to throw away) so the biggest difference has been that I actually did cast Signs. Didn't really feel a great difference though. One game I would've needed a way to discard (down to hand size was too slow) and in one game against Jund we were in top deck mode and Signs was way better draw (ended up losing that game though). I sided the Signs out just as often as Hugs.
Ive been testing tormenting voice over hugs and it seems fine. Im sure there will come times when i wish i had an extra card, but sometimes I just dont want to discard 2.
I'm playing with 3 tormentig voice. I really think that it's better than Cathartic on this deck because we don't want to discard 2 cards to draw 3. We rarelly will have 2 cards that we want to discard. Our combo needs a lot of pieces and even a land that we discard can make all the difference in the end. Tormenting voice gives us what we need for card advantage.
I'm playing a list with 18 lands, 3 Tormenting Voice, 1 Brutality and 1 Axe. i'm not sure about brutality and axe on main deck.
Someone here thought about a list with some disruptions? or with noxious revival.
I think that seize could enter on the list like on the legacy reanimator. We could seixe ourselves to discard griselbrand or seize opponent for protect our combo. It's a card that works for both. My only thing is about loss life. We need life, particularly when we are playing against control decks and want to combo off in instant speed. But i'm really thinking on testing 2 or 3 seize (maybe 4 hahaha)
and noxious helps us against discards. Maybe 1 off
I would much sooner run 4 Brutalities before running Thoughtseizes. 2 life is a big deal in especially in a deck with Griselbrands as the primary engine. Brutality has so much more utility.
I would encourage you to keep jamming the BR emrakul breach deck and see what you think yourself. I can say with certainty that I would not go back to a non-shoal shell unless something changes drastically. There are many instances that aren't readily apparent in theory where Emrakul is inferior to Worldspine Wurm. The control matchup goes from very good to tough.
Morimacil, if you are going to jam that shell I would definitely devote some sideboard cards for the control matchup. If you are playing Grixis, I would say a mix of Dispels and Defense Grids. Boseiju has been made obsolete by Field of Ruin.
On brutality vs thoughtseize:
Brutality has some added utility in some matchups, but is completely dead in some others. So it should probably stick to being a SB card. Thoughtseize is great to decent vs pretty much every deck.
It is about as good as a discard outlet: sometimes it is bad because costing more slows you down, sometimes getting extra cards out of the discard will be worth it.
But mostly, it doesnt deal with things like karn, thought knot seer, baral, rest in peace, relic, chalice, bridge, cranial plating, ..... Thoughtseize is just way more versatile in that sense, it deals with almost anything.
Brutality is great against burn, good against coco-chord decks, decent vs things where the instant or sorcery duress can matter like control decks, or combo, and ok where you need to kill things with 2 toughness. And terrible in a lot of other matchups, of which modern is full of. You cant try to plug every hole in the maindeck, because you end up with too many cards that are useless sometimes, and still cant cover everything, because modern decks can attack from so many different angles. Some fights just have to be dealt with by being proactive in the main, and bringing thing in the SB.
2 life is painful, but not more than if you play night's whisper. Totally worth it to manageable.
For control being bad, I disagree. Thoughtseize + inquisition + breach + griselbrand is a very good plan, much better than wurm + shoal + breach + griselbrand, because if you just have a shoal, and nothing to exile to it, it cant be used to splice anything, where as if you have just one discard effect and not 2, they are still effective. And you can get through something like dispel + negate more easily. And you get to actually know if the coast is clear, see what type of interaction the opponent is working with, and play around it, not have to care about path as much, etc.
But yeah the SB is rough, and the numbers can be tweaked. I want to work brutality back in the SB, and go back up to 18 lands.
Mostly, the deck is there to illustrate the general idea of all the decks I am testing:
16 combo pieces + ~17 lands, ~4 SSG, ~12 cantrips, ~10 interaction, no fancy win-more cards, no other cards appart from breach-goryos-emrakul-griselbrand that arent actually good on their own. And ive been having much more success with it than with shoal version.
For the mana base and the cantrip suite, there is likely a best configuration available.
And then for the interaction and SB, youd want to mostly very broad stuff in the main, like inquisitions and thoughtseizes, and then more precise hate in the board, but the setup would vary based on the metagame.
As I said, control is already a great matchup for the shoals variant because of redundancy. You can choke them on mana by splicing. Keep in mind you have more than just shoals. It's a very common line to ritual splice x, or even Breach splice Goryo and vice versa. You'll have at least 7 sources of arcane spells that you can splice off of. Plus Pact of Negation in the sideboard makes the matchup even better. There's a reason why combo decks like Grishoalbrand and Ad Nauseam are banes of control's existence - having to respect an instant speed win is way tougher than play through discard and dealing with threats that doesn't win on the spot and can be dealt with cleanly through cryptic command.
In the current meta, the archetype you are losing to the most is the faster linear decks/tempo decks. in those cases, the 2 life loss is going to make a big difference. Also, you have to remember that you as the combo deck should be making them interact with you, and not vice versa. Brutality covers all basis, be it stripping counterspells from their hand or killing hatebears thalia/meddling mage/scavenging ooze etc. Brutality is a better discard outlet and directly addresses one of the deck's weaknesses (dying too quick), while Thoughtseize is not likely to do that.
Thinking about Seize vs. Brutality, we need to talk about the utilities of the cards. I'll talk about the BR Grishoalbrand, not the Emrakul version.
I really like the idea of Seize on ourselves or to protect ourselves. But there's something that we need to care about: the life loss. night's whisper deals damage to us too much. If we consider to use Seize, i think we should replace some Whisper for more Tormenting Voice or Cathartic. Like 2-4 or 3-3. I'm testing a version with 4 Shisper, 2 Tormenting Voice, 1 Noxious revival and 2 Brutality.
I like brutality cause the card gives us information about the hand of our opponent, gives us life and make us discard. it's a 4 in one for the deck. I'm considering playing more than just 2 MD. Seize works fine too, and can take ANYTHING from our hand or from an opponent hand. But it need to be used carefully. I think that Seize on a 3 colors version, that deals a lot of damage naturally, didn't work so well (even substituting Whisper for Serum Visions).
What do you think?
And what about Noxious Revival maindeck for take back anything that would be discarded. This helps us to get back something that we discard with looting/ voice/ cathartic or somethign that an opponent take from us.
Round 1 vs. Zoo. I lose the die roll. I try to go off on turn 3, but I get cocky and think that 2 activations will get there after doing Nourishing Shoal. He does Path to Exile with the first activation on the stack and I don't find Wurm/Bobo OR Nourishing Shoal. I decide not to take a chance because I will die to Nacatl and Goyf next turn. I don't even consider at the time him having another Path to Exile, which I can't play around easily. If I had gone to 5 life, I would have found the other Nourishing Shoal and Worldspine Wurm after my Griselbrand is Path to Exiled - possibly since I shuffled after Path. So I go for Through the Breach/Wurm next turn and he plays his 2nd Path to Exile. GGs. In the next one, I Bontu's Last Reckoning after a CoCo, Scavenging Ooze, and Eidolon of Rhetoric. He then does Coco into double Nacatl and adds a third to the board after swings. I draw nothing and scoop. 0-2.
Round 2 vs. UR Kiki. In the first game, I try to go off in response to an Electrolyze on end step. I don't find what I need to win. I missed on Nourishing Shoal and found 3 Simian Spirit Guide and Desperate Ritual, which is not enough to Through the Breach Borborymos Enraged. I end up discarding Borborygmos Enraged and my next draw step IS Nourishing Shoal, which is odd because I considered using Manamorphose to try and find Shoal, but I had no faith. I am low on life, so I go for Goryo's Vengeance on his end turn and I don't want to be bolted out of the game since I only have Nourishing Shoal and Manamorphose. Remand. I play another one. Spell Snare. I untap and go for another one. Second Spell Snare. Didn't expect that and he adds ScM to kill me. In the next game, he misses his 4th land drop after casting 4 Serum Visions and 2 Opt. I hope that he won't find 3 straight lands, but he does. Deceiver Exarch, Spell Snare on Chalice of the Void on 1. Untap, 6th land, Kiki and Dispel for my Goryo's Vengeance. Didn't expect him to peel 3 lands straight after missing the land drop on turn 4, but yep. 0-2.
Round 3 vs. Blood Moon Jund. I do too many Night's Whisper and he has a slow hand with discard, removal, and Dark Confidants and I Breach Wurm and win. In the next game, I get Goryo's Vengeance on turn 4 after he makes me discard 2 of them and then runs out double Tarmogoyf. Lucky draw I guess. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Hoomans. In the first game, it is looking bad for him, but he gets Meddling Mage, naming Goryo's Vengeance, then goes Phantasmal Image Mage, naming Collective Brutality, which I had. I end up Breaching Wurm the next turn and he does Reflector Mage twice and blocks to kill another one. I do Night's Whisper, miss, but then another Night's Whisper gets Goryo's Vengeance and it finds Griselbrand in the GY. I keep a hand of Swamp, Mountain, Night's Whisper, Anger of the Gods X 2, Griselbrand, and Bontu's Last Reckoning and this game ends up being a game of his creatures dying and then me doing triple Night's Whisper to find what I needed to win. A Nourishing Shoal with Worldspine Wurm kept me alive too. 2-0.
I finish 2-2, which is pretty bad. I need to start playing more tightly.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
it's pretty disingenuous to cherry pick one or two games to fit your narrative. for every one game of those, there will be a game where thoughtseize doesn't win you the game because their has 3 cryptics and they are bottlenecked by mana, not cards, or when you have thoughtseize vs burn or turbo hollow and you feel bad, and games when you get to kill their devoted druid and take away their chord while binning griselbrand with brutality, which is a fantastic tempo play.
it's hard to outline how much good or bad the shoal or the breach version is on paper. would highly suggest you jam some games with it and let us know how it goes. I did so for a bit and am no longer motivated to because emrakul is an awkward win con and there is surprisingly a lot of games where she doesn't win. and the BR interaction cards were fine but they werent powerful enough without pressure and the combo was significantly diluted as a result.
Thoughtseize can definitely be strong in my opinion, but I don't think it's good enough. We need our cards to be high impact and Collective Brutality definitely fits the bill. It's part of the reason I rarely have ever considered running cards like Lightning Bolt or Fatal Push in my SB.
Honestly in each of those game 1s in Rounds 1 and 2 that I lost after "going off," I would have won if I had gone balls to the wall. I usually play like that, but I doubted myself and the deck in Round 1 and literally didn't think that it was worth using Manamorphose after exile double SSG against Kiki to try to find Nourishing Shoal. Also with him at 4 mana and Deceiver Exarch in play, I had an out of exile double SSG, Manamorphose, Goryo's Vengeance Borborygmos Enraged, toss a land at Kiki. I was super sure that it was going to be his play, especially after he started with Mountain to have the necessary RRR. Didn't happen though, so having the double SSG and Manamorphose in hand ended up being weak.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I played in a 30 person Staples tournament. I didn't expect to go, as I was busy today. A last minute change found me driving 1 and a half hours with a match loss to try my luck!
Round 1 vs. ?. I came late, so started with a game loss. 0-2.
Round 2 vs. GW Company, splash Blue. 0-2.
Round 3 vs. UW Control. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. UB Heartless Summoning. 2-1.
Round 5 vs. Blue Turns. 2-1.
I finish 3-2, or 3-1 in matches played. I was really disappointed in my 2nd round (or 1st round played) match, where I basically punted it away. He drew super good in the next game, but the first game belonged to me.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
a little bit more analysis on less crazy versions:
You could be dead before you get a turn 3, you could be getting karned, or whatever, brutal things happen early on
Some of the time, we can kill on turn 1, 2 or 3, and that is good enough.
But essentially, our deck is made up of 2 parts (goryos or breach), and only one part is fast enough
Throught the breach costing 5 mana just makes it too awkward to cast on turn 3 reliably, you need through the breach, + a fatty, + 5 mana sources (2 of which are SSG/rituals). On turn 3, you saw 9-10 cards, so fnding all the pieces by then is just too unlikely, and you dont really have time to assemble it all, and/or cast tutors.
And the worse part is, even if you manage to reliably cast TTB with a fatty by turn 3, it might still be too slow! In the shoal version, you might have to breach in a worm, and win on the next turn, and in the emrakul version, you might have to breach in a griselbrand and win the next turn.
Post SB, things usually slow down, and thats the case for us too: Goryos is relatively easy to shut down, so we have to rely on through the breach more, and get a little slower.
Speeding up isnt really an option. If we want to speed up the deck, the shoal version with its ability to win at instant speed is probably the fastest. Lots of people have been working on it for quite some time now, so it is probably already close to the best version it can be already, and unlikely that we can speed it up much more without any new cards.
And still we cant really compete with storm or infect on speed.
So the other option is to slow the opponents down a little bit. If we can slow the opponents down by about a turn, then our turn 3-5 kills are now fast enough.
To add in interaction, we need to remove some of the elements that are ony there for speeed: so the shoal package.
The bad part is that it makes our combo less powerful: Instead of getting access to instant kills, we get to deal 7-draw 7 and/or make the opponent sacrifice 6 permanents.
The good part is that interaction works really well with those effects: If for example the opponent is able to put 8-9 permanents into play on their first turns, emrakul might be too weak, but if you can interact a bit and trade a couple of cards, then emrakul is way more effective.
At some point, it is similar to something like a cruel ultimatum control deck.
Cruel ultimatum provides a very powerful effect, so those decks want to slow down the game a bit until they can get to that effect, and then use that giant card advantage and tempo swing to win.
Well we can do pretty much the same thing, slow the game down a bit, and then use a giant effct to swing it back in our favor.
We need 2 cards for our effects, but they are even more impactful than a cruel ultimatum, and can come down much faster.
So we kind of get inevitability, to be able to play control, but also the ability to race, which puts you in an amazing situation. Think splinter twin decks, and so on, many good decks were built like that, it is a strategic advantage to be playing a deck that not only has inevitability, but also the ability to punish opponents who try to put down early pressure by just killing them.
This may be of interest to you. I was curious while working on this deck so I donated to Jeff Hoogland he played the list for a league.
I've given up on the archetype after jamming games and tinkering. It's the same problem with all control decks in modern. There are so many proactive decks and sometimes your answers just don't line up with what those proactive decks are doing, and your combo finish doesn't finish the game sometime. It sounded great in theory, which is why I jammed a bunch online to try and make it work. It's just not consistently powerful enough. Hell, my 5-0 list that got published was a super lucky league where I turn 2 griselbranded people a bunch or blood moon was super good. For every one of those games there were too many games were I felt super powerless.
So again, I encourage you to give the deck a spin and let the thread know how it fares. I'd love for the deck to be competitively viable. I've tried and don't think it is and have put it down. I'd love to be proven otherwise. GL
Hoogland just put up a video on it.... This deck looks fun AF but didnt perform well for him
I can only imagine playing a living end mirror LOL
I'd imagine that the deck is prone to getting blitzed by linear decks and fares horribly against graveyard hate. But it's a griselbrand deck so I gotta try with some changes.. Definitely jamming some number of charts are going in.
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Also, you are overlooking the fact that you are bringing in brutalities and pact of negations. Brutality helps you optimize your line, and pact goes over the top of what they are doing. Pact and brutality makes the matchup significantly easier postboard, and has a wide range of application.
As I said though, it depends on the texture of the match and how well your opponent knows the matchup. VS novice burn players who waits to skullcrack until after the reanimation/breach (most of them), the matchup is quite favorable. If you think your opponent is highly skilled, feel free to fire off the turn 1/2 shoal and give yourself enough time to sculpt a winning hand with brutalities/pacts.
BR version still cannot beat a deflecting palm. They are slightly better vs paths and skullcrack. Emrakul not being a 1HKO can be a real liability given you may find it diffult to deal the last 5 damage (note that since the introduction of inspiring vantage, it's become unrealible to expect them to do 5 damages to themselves via lands).
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/7spo9i/tournament_report_13th_at_the_facetofacegames/
Otherwise, the list looks solid (even though I'm not a fan of Time of Need). In the SB I wouldn't play Qicksilver but instead 2 Pacts, which will help against Control, which sees a lot of play currently.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Great article as always homie
Ive been testing tormenting voice over hugs and it seems fine. Im sure there will come times when i wish i had an extra card, but sometimes I just dont want to discard 2.
I'm playing a list with 18 lands, 3 Tormenting Voice, 1 Brutality and 1 Axe. i'm not sure about brutality and axe on main deck.
Someone here thought about a list with some disruptions? or with noxious revival.
I think that seize could enter on the list like on the legacy reanimator. We could seixe ourselves to discard griselbrand or seize opponent for protect our combo. It's a card that works for both. My only thing is about loss life. We need life, particularly when we are playing against control decks and want to combo off in instant speed. But i'm really thinking on testing 2 or 3 seize (maybe 4 hahaha)
and noxious helps us against discards. Maybe 1 off
What do you think about those cards on the list?
I would encourage you to keep jamming the BR emrakul breach deck and see what you think yourself. I can say with certainty that I would not go back to a non-shoal shell unless something changes drastically. There are many instances that aren't readily apparent in theory where Emrakul is inferior to Worldspine Wurm. The control matchup goes from very good to tough.
Morimacil, if you are going to jam that shell I would definitely devote some sideboard cards for the control matchup. If you are playing Grixis, I would say a mix of Dispels and Defense Grids. Boseiju has been made obsolete by Field of Ruin.
In the current meta, the archetype you are losing to the most is the faster linear decks/tempo decks. in those cases, the 2 life loss is going to make a big difference. Also, you have to remember that you as the combo deck should be making them interact with you, and not vice versa. Brutality covers all basis, be it stripping counterspells from their hand or killing hatebears thalia/meddling mage/scavenging ooze etc. Brutality is a better discard outlet and directly addresses one of the deck's weaknesses (dying too quick), while Thoughtseize is not likely to do that.
I really like the idea of Seize on ourselves or to protect ourselves. But there's something that we need to care about: the life loss. night's whisper deals damage to us too much. If we consider to use Seize, i think we should replace some Whisper for more Tormenting Voice or Cathartic. Like 2-4 or 3-3. I'm testing a version with 4 Shisper, 2 Tormenting Voice, 1 Noxious revival and 2 Brutality.
I like brutality cause the card gives us information about the hand of our opponent, gives us life and make us discard. it's a 4 in one for the deck. I'm considering playing more than just 2 MD. Seize works fine too, and can take ANYTHING from our hand or from an opponent hand. But it need to be used carefully. I think that Seize on a 3 colors version, that deals a lot of damage naturally, didn't work so well (even substituting Whisper for Serum Visions).
What do you think?
And what about Noxious Revival maindeck for take back anything that would be discarded. This helps us to get back something that we discard with looting/ voice/ cathartic or somethign that an opponent take from us.
Round 1 vs. Zoo. I lose the die roll. I try to go off on turn 3, but I get cocky and think that 2 activations will get there after doing Nourishing Shoal. He does Path to Exile with the first activation on the stack and I don't find Wurm/Bobo OR Nourishing Shoal. I decide not to take a chance because I will die to Nacatl and Goyf next turn. I don't even consider at the time him having another Path to Exile, which I can't play around easily. If I had gone to 5 life, I would have found the other Nourishing Shoal and Worldspine Wurm after my Griselbrand is Path to Exiled - possibly since I shuffled after Path. So I go for Through the Breach/Wurm next turn and he plays his 2nd Path to Exile. GGs. In the next one, I Bontu's Last Reckoning after a CoCo, Scavenging Ooze, and Eidolon of Rhetoric. He then does Coco into double Nacatl and adds a third to the board after swings. I draw nothing and scoop. 0-2.
Round 2 vs. UR Kiki. In the first game, I try to go off in response to an Electrolyze on end step. I don't find what I need to win. I missed on Nourishing Shoal and found 3 Simian Spirit Guide and Desperate Ritual, which is not enough to Through the Breach Borborymos Enraged. I end up discarding Borborygmos Enraged and my next draw step IS Nourishing Shoal, which is odd because I considered using Manamorphose to try and find Shoal, but I had no faith.
Round 3 vs. Blood Moon Jund. I do too many Night's Whisper and he has a slow hand with discard, removal, and Dark Confidants and I Breach Wurm and win. In the next game, I get Goryo's Vengeance on turn 4 after he makes me discard 2 of them and then runs out double Tarmogoyf. Lucky draw I guess. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Hoomans. In the first game, it is looking bad for him, but he gets Meddling Mage, naming Goryo's Vengeance, then goes Phantasmal Image Mage, naming Collective Brutality, which I had. I end up Breaching Wurm the next turn and he does Reflector Mage twice and blocks to kill another one. I do Night's Whisper, miss, but then another Night's Whisper gets Goryo's Vengeance and it finds Griselbrand in the GY. I keep a hand of Swamp, Mountain, Night's Whisper, Anger of the Gods X 2, Griselbrand, and Bontu's Last Reckoning and this game ends up being a game of his creatures dying and then me doing triple Night's Whisper to find what I needed to win. A Nourishing Shoal with Worldspine Wurm kept me alive too.
I finish 2-2, which is pretty bad. I need to start playing more tightly.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)it's hard to outline how much good or bad the shoal or the breach version is on paper. would highly suggest you jam some games with it and let us know how it goes. I did so for a bit and am no longer motivated to because emrakul is an awkward win con and there is surprisingly a lot of games where she doesn't win. and the BR interaction cards were fine but they werent powerful enough without pressure and the combo was significantly diluted as a result.
Honestly in each of those game 1s in Rounds 1 and 2 that I lost after "going off," I would have won if I had gone balls to the wall. I usually play like that, but I doubted myself and the deck in Round 1 and literally didn't think that it was worth using Manamorphose after exile double SSG against Kiki to try to find Nourishing Shoal. Also with him at 4 mana and Deceiver Exarch in play, I had an out of exile double SSG, Manamorphose, Goryo's Vengeance Borborygmos Enraged, toss a land at Kiki. I was super sure that it was going to be his play, especially after he started with Mountain to have the necessary RRR. Didn't happen though, so having the double SSG and Manamorphose in hand ended up being weak.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Round 1 vs. ?. I came late, so started with a game loss. 0-2.
Round 2 vs. GW Company, splash Blue. 0-2.
Round 3 vs. UW Control. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. UB Heartless Summoning. 2-1.
Round 5 vs. Blue Turns. 2-1.
I finish 3-2, or 3-1 in matches played. I was really disappointed in my 2nd round (or 1st round played) match, where I basically punted it away. He drew super good in the next game, but the first game belonged to me.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=118599
Hoogland just put up a video on it.... This deck looks fun AF but didnt perform well for him
I can only imagine playing a living end mirror LOL
This may be of interest to you. I was curious while working on this deck so I donated to Jeff Hoogland he played the list for a league.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JrDLpiJpPE&
I've given up on the archetype after jamming games and tinkering. It's the same problem with all control decks in modern. There are so many proactive decks and sometimes your answers just don't line up with what those proactive decks are doing, and your combo finish doesn't finish the game sometime. It sounded great in theory, which is why I jammed a bunch online to try and make it work. It's just not consistently powerful enough. Hell, my 5-0 list that got published was a super lucky league where I turn 2 griselbranded people a bunch or blood moon was super good. For every one of those games there were too many games were I felt super powerless.
So again, I encourage you to give the deck a spin and let the thread know how it fares. I'd love for the deck to be competitively viable. I've tried and don't think it is and have put it down. I'd love to be proven otherwise. GL
I'd imagine that the deck is prone to getting blitzed by linear decks and fares horribly against graveyard hate. But it's a griselbrand deck so I gotta try with some changes.. Definitely jamming some number of charts are going in.