Keepable hand question. GBrand Goryos WSW simian Temple of malice 2 lands on play. VS unknown. thoughts?
Bogles and turn 0 leyline mainboard
easy keep in the dark even OTP. You have both combo pieces and discarding to hand size is a real discard outlet and it'll be much harder if you mulligan on the play. I would play temple of malice t2 and hope to draw a looting/night's whisper/Cathartic Reunion/Breach/Brutality. If you don't, I would pass turns 2 and 3 to discard Griselbrand so you can Vengeance at instant speed.
doesn't change my decision. Hope that their turn 3 bogles is smaller than 7/7 so you can SSG+Vengeance and block the bogle and set yourself up.
It's always an interesting question when to play lands or when to hold them to discard sooner. In theory discarding before playing lands allows for a faster combo, but isn't always correct.
it may be better if your land produces black, you can draw into a SSG and speed is of importance. Otherwise, playing a land so you have the option to play a hug/looting/whispers/laxe/brutality that you draw into is superior
has anyone been maniacal enough to run 1-2 gurmag anglers or tomb stalkers on the side?
feel like with the format slowing down a bit I was thinking we need to be more threat sense, but that doesn't necessarily have to be business spells and reanimation targets only. realize that it still gets hosed by hard GY hate, but a curious idea nonetheless
Round 1 vs. Dredge. Game 1, I go off with a Wurm on turn 3. The tokens get there. In the next game, his hand is more explosive. Despite a turn 3 Anger of the Gods top decked by me to kill triple Prized Amalgam, double Bloodghast, and 1 Narcomoeba, he reloads with Prize Amalgam and Bloodghast with Conflagrate to kill me. I Shoal to gain life and survive a turn, but couldn't find Griselbrand. In the final game, I get there with a turn 3 Breached Griselbrand. I had planned to do Wurm, but drew Griselbrand on turn 3. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Grishoalbrand mirror. In game 1, he Loots, discarding double Griselbrand. He passes the turn to me, but EoT Goryo's Vengeance Griselbrand and goes for the Wurm kill, but I Shoal to stay alive. He kills me a few turns later. In the next one, I get the hand to go off quickly and win with Borborygmos Enraged. The last game is interesting. My opponent has Noxious Revival for my Griselbrand on turn 2 to stop my Goryo's Vengeance. I keep doing draw spells, but can't find Goryo's Vengeance. He goes for Borborygmos Enraged twice on some of these turns, but I have Shoul and Wurm each time to stay alive. He eventually goes off, but can't kill me because Bobo is gone and all SSGs are gone too. I keep trying to find Goryo's Vengeance and finally find one to get Griselbrand out. I use a bunch of draw spells, going all-in to try to get Goryo's Vengeance for Bobo to try to kill him through all Nourishing Shoals. It is not enough and because I used the draw spells, I have 0 cards in library when he has 1. If I had looked at the lands, I could come to the conclusion that his last land was Blackcleave Cliffs and his last card in library, so he can't get the 5th mana source to Breach a Wurm that I knew he had (also there were 3 Breaches left, so he obviously had 2-3 of them). I mill myself out on accident. I probably should have taken the time to look in all zones, as the damage that was done to him by Bobo still had him at least at 10 life, so not close to dead. Big mistake... 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Grixis Shadow. In the first game, he discards me and does Serum Visions and Thought Scour. He does a turn 3 Shadow at 2/2 leaving up Blue. I go for the Through the Breach Worldspine Wurm, using Desperate Ritual and SSG because I don't see things getting better from here on out. He doesn't have Stubborn Denial and I win. In the next game, he makes me discard Goryo's Vengeance. He gets double Shadow down, but they're not too big. On the final turn, I need a mana source to Breach a Worldspine Wurm for lethal (he's at 7), but I draw ... Temple of Malice. Ouch! In the final game, he makes me discard Through the Breach, I do turn 2 Sign in Blood. I do turn 3 Sign in Blood after Manamorphose and exile SSG another Sign in Blood, finding another Through the Breach. He taps out on the final turn to put 2 lethal attackers on the field (we're both at 4 and he put Gurmag Angler to join a Shadow). I need to draw an untapped source to Breach Griselbrand, but I draw Temple of Malice. OUUUUCH! The other Griselbrand player says that he would have kept Manamorphose in hand since I originally had Nourishing Shoal. My thought at the time was that it gave me 2 draws to draw Chalice of the Void or Blood Moon on turn 2 to slow him down. From there, my Sign in Bloods could get me there. Huge punt and mistake, but well, you learn. In the past, I had trouble saving Manamorphose in my hand, but then saved it quite a bit. I decided to take a chance that I get Chalice of the Void, which makes it much more safe, although he did do Disdainful Stroke on my first Breach in game 2. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. GW Devoted Elves. In the first game, it is close. I have to Breach a Wurm on turn 3. She has enough blockers to kill 2 of them and survive at 1 life, but she can only put 2 more power the next turn to add to the 2 previously tapped 1/1s, so she scoops. In the next game, she gets some pressure and I go off late with Breach Griselbrand, but it barely gets there. I only Shoal once, but I find the SSGs to Breach Borborgymos Enraged after combat to discard 5 lands. 2-0.
I finish 2-2 and out of money, but I learned a few things tonight. After playing a lot of tournaments recently where play skill didn't seem to matter, I actually punted both losses in super interesting ways.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Round 1 vs. Dredge. Game 1, I go off with a Wurm on turn 3. The tokens get there. In the next game, his hand is more explosive. Despite a turn 3 Anger of the Gods top decked by me to kill triple Prized Amalgam, double Bloodghast, and 1 Narcomoeba, he reloads with Prize Amalgam and Bloodghast with Conflagrate to kill me. I Shoal to gain life and survive a turn, but couldn't find Griselbrand. In the final game, I get there with a turn 3 Breached Griselbrand. I had planned to do Wurm, but drew Griselbrand on turn 3. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Grishoalbrand mirror. In game 1, he Loots, discarding double Griselbrand. He passes the turn to me, but EoT Goryo's Vengeance Griselbrand and goes for the Wurm kill, but I Shoal to stay alive. He kills me a few turns later. In the next one, I get the hand to go off quickly and win with Borborygmos Enraged. The last game is interesting. My opponent has Noxious Revival for my Griselbrand on turn 2 to stop my Goryo's Vengeance. I keep doing draw spells, but can't find Goryo's Vengeance. He goes for Borborygmos Enraged twice on some of these turns, but I have Shoul and Wurm each time to stay alive. He eventually goes off, but can't kill me because Bobo is gone and all SSGs are gone too. I keep trying to find Goryo's Vengeance and finally find one to get Griselbrand out. I use a bunch of draw spells, going all-in to try to get Goryo's Vengeance for Bobo to try to kill him through all Nourishing Shoals. It is not enough and because I used the draw spells, I have 0 cards in library when he has 1. If I had looked at the lands, I could come to the conclusion that his last land was Blackcleave Cliffs and his last card in library, so he can't get the 5th mana source to Breach a Wurm that I knew he had (also there were 3 Breaches left, so he obviously had 2-3 of them). I mill myself out on accident. I probably should have taken the time to look in all zones, as the damage that was done to him by Bobo still had him at least at 10 life, so not close to dead. Big mistake... 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Grixis Shadow. In the first game, he discards me and does Serum Visions and Thought Scour. He does a turn 3 Shadow at 2/2 leaving up Blue. I go for the Through the Breach Worldspine Wurm, using Desperate Ritual and SSG because I don't see things getting better from here on out. He doesn't have Stubborn Denial and I win. In the next game, he makes me discard Goryo's Vengeance. He gets double Shadow down, but they're not too big. On the final turn, I need a mana source to Breach a Worldspine Wurm for lethal (he's at 7), but I draw ... Temple of Malice. Ouch! In the final game, he makes me discard Through the Breach, I do turn 2 Sign in Blood. I do turn 3 Sign in Blood after Manamorphose and exile SSG another Sign in Blood, finding another Through the Breach. He taps out on the final turn to put 2 lethal attackers on the field (we're both at 4 and he put Gurmag Angler to join a Shadow). I need to draw an untapped source to Breach Griselbrand, but I draw Temple of Malice. OUUUUCH! The other Griselbrand player says that he would have kept Manamorphose in hand since I originally had Nourishing Shoal. My thought at the time was that it gave me 2 draws to draw Chalice of the Void or Blood Moon on turn 2 to slow him down. From there, my Sign in Bloods could get me there. Huge punt and mistake, but well, you learn. In the past, I had trouble saving Manamorphose in my hand, but then saved it quite a bit. I decided to take a chance that I get Chalice of the Void, which makes it much more safe, although he did do Disdainful Stroke on my first Breach in game 2. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. GW Devoted Elves. In the first game, it is close. I have to Breach a Wurm on turn 3. She has enough blockers to kill 2 of them and survive at 1 life, but she can only put 2 more power the next turn to add to the 2 previously tapped 1/1s, so she scoops. In the next game, she gets some pressure and I go off late with Breach Griselbrand, but it barely gets there. I only Shoal once, but I find the SSGs to Breach Borborgymos Enraged after combat to discard 5 lands. 2-0.
I finish 2-2 and out of money, but I learned a few things tonight. After playing a lot of tournaments recently where play skill didn't seem to matter, I actually punted both losses in super interesting ways.
Thanks for the match history. It takes a ton of time to figure out the perfect plays but its always nice to feel like youre one step closer!
is Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth any good in this deck replacing one swamp?
Pro: Enables fetches to tap for B without losing one life
Con: "Fixes" enemy mana bases, if they need B
I think, the upside is rather low and the downside rather big that it would warrant a slot instead of an Swamp. Furthermore, it might makes some Wurm kills more awkward :/
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Hello ! I have been very interested in the deck for quite some time. I finally want to build it! But only one thing repels me: is not it a bit risky to do it now knowing that the SSG has a chance to be banned in February?
Thank you for your feedback
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Vizier company GWB- Dredge GBR - TitanShift GR - Grishoalbrand BR - Burn WR - Elves GB - Colorless Eldrazi X - U tron U
The deck in general has always a risk of getting banned, due to the nature of it. However, currently it doesn't violate any terms which would lead to a ban, so there is basically "no" risk there.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
The deck in general has always a risk of getting banned, due to the nature of it. However, currently it doesn't violate any terms which would lead to a ban, so there is basically "no" risk there.
Greetings,
Kathal
I agree with this statement as well. The deck can be blazingly fast, but I think that Wizards has deemed it too inconsistent and not having a big metashare to have something banned. Outside of Bob Huang and maybe 2 handfuls of others in GPs, the deck hasn't had super results. It also isn't played much.
I would never say that there is no risk, but I think the risk is probably less than 1% in my honest opinion.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
The deck in general has always a risk of getting banned, due to the nature of it. However, currently it doesn't violate any terms which would lead to a ban, so there is basically "no" risk there.
Greetings,
Kathal
I'd agree. It's probably at its lowest chance of being banned in awhile. No other decks are oppressively abusing ssg and Grishoalbrand hasn't done anything high profile in awhile.
I'm a bit worried about the wording of the b&r announcement referencing modern today, but Grishoalbrand is low on my list of worries. Unless they make a huge change to the format and ban all fast mana or something, I think Gris is relatively safe for now. I think gds, storm, Tron or mox opal are a lot more likely to get a ban. Or also decently likely that something gets unbanned.
Honestly, I would rather have looting than chalice currently. I suppose gds is seeing a rise in popularity but still, I don't really like dropping looting for chalice. I also don't really like going 3 color for a version that doesn't guarantee a win when you get a fatty in play. If you have good success, or want to tell me why I'm wrong, I'd be happy to listen.
I'd agree. It's probably at its lowest chance of being banned in awhile. No other decks are oppressively abusing ssg and Grishoalbrand hasn't done anything high profile in awhile.
I'm a bit worried about the wording of the b&r announcement referencing modern today, but Grishoalbrand is low on my list of worries. Unless they make a huge change to the format and ban all fast mana or something, I think Gris is relatively safe for now. I think gds, storm, Tron or mox opal are a lot more likely to get a ban. Or also decently likely that something gets unbanned.
To be honest, they can only increase the power level of Modern by big changes, cause otherwise they will lose the playbase (they would need to ban so many cards, from Mox Opal to SSG, from Death's Shadow to Valakut, from Urza Tron to Lantern of Insight, from Cranial Plating to Grapeshot,...). Hence, I'm not worried at all regarding this ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I'd agree. It's probably at its lowest chance of being banned in awhile. No other decks are oppressively abusing ssg and Grishoalbrand hasn't done anything high profile in awhile.
I'm a bit worried about the wording of the b&r announcement referencing modern today, but Grishoalbrand is low on my list of worries. Unless they make a huge change to the format and ban all fast mana or something, I think Gris is relatively safe for now. I think gds, storm, Tron or mox opal are a lot more likely to get a ban. Or also decently likely that something gets unbanned.
To be honest, they can only increase the power level of Modern by big changes, cause otherwise they will lose the playbase (they would need to ban so many cards, from Mox Opal to SSG, from Death's Shadow to Valakut, from Urza Tron to Lantern of Insight, from Cranial Plating to Grapeshot,...). Hence, I'm not worried at all regarding this ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
I hope you're right. But if any of those are too dominant at the pt, im afraid they might overreact.
Overreact and destroy one of the best metagames they ever had? No. If something shows as "to dominant" at the PT they either will do nothing at the BR update or make an unban, which could harm that "dominant" deck.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
How do you board vs GDS? I know chalice is a must but do you add in the blood moons since they are greedy? I feel like I struggle with sidboarding in general
So if you had to make the mana base without fetches how would you do it?
Rly? The 4 Bloodstain Mires are not that expensive to skip them...
However, due to how the deck work, there are no really good replacements, cause fast lands are garbage for TTB, Checklands don't go well with the Temples and more basics are not helpful either.
How do you board vs GDS? I know chalice is a must but do you add in the blood moons since they are greedy? I feel like I struggle with sidboarding in general
OTP: Chalice + Moon
OTD: Chalice + Axe
This is at least how I board against this deck. Moon is to slow otd that it can really matter, so it only comes in otp.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
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easy keep in the dark even OTP. You have both combo pieces and discarding to hand size is a real discard outlet and it'll be much harder if you mulligan on the play. I would play temple of malice t2 and hope to draw a looting/night's whisper/Cathartic Reunion/Breach/Brutality. If you don't, I would pass turns 2 and 3 to discard Griselbrand so you can Vengeance at instant speed.
feel like with the format slowing down a bit I was thinking we need to be more threat sense, but that doesn't necessarily have to be business spells and reanimation targets only. realize that it still gets hosed by hard GY hate, but a curious idea nonetheless
Round 1 vs. Dredge. Game 1, I go off with a Wurm on turn 3. The tokens get there. In the next game, his hand is more explosive. Despite a turn 3 Anger of the Gods top decked by me to kill triple Prized Amalgam, double Bloodghast, and 1 Narcomoeba, he reloads with Prize Amalgam and Bloodghast with Conflagrate to kill me. I Shoal to gain life and survive a turn, but couldn't find Griselbrand. In the final game, I get there with a turn 3 Breached Griselbrand. I had planned to do Wurm, but drew Griselbrand on turn 3. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Grishoalbrand mirror. In game 1, he Loots, discarding double Griselbrand. He passes the turn to me, but EoT Goryo's Vengeance Griselbrand and goes for the Wurm kill, but I Shoal to stay alive. He kills me a few turns later. In the next one, I get the hand to go off quickly and win with Borborygmos Enraged. The last game is interesting. My opponent has Noxious Revival for my Griselbrand on turn 2 to stop my Goryo's Vengeance. I keep doing draw spells, but can't find Goryo's Vengeance. He goes for Borborygmos Enraged twice on some of these turns, but I have Shoul and Wurm each time to stay alive. He eventually goes off, but can't kill me because Bobo is gone and all SSGs are gone too. I keep trying to find Goryo's Vengeance and finally find one to get Griselbrand out. I use a bunch of draw spells, going all-in to try to get Goryo's Vengeance for Bobo to try to kill him through all Nourishing Shoals. It is not enough and because I used the draw spells, I have 0 cards in library when he has 1. If I had looked at the lands, I could come to the conclusion that his last land was Blackcleave Cliffs and his last card in library, so he can't get the 5th mana source to Breach a Wurm that I knew he had (also there were 3 Breaches left, so he obviously had 2-3 of them). I mill myself out on accident. I probably should have taken the time to look in all zones, as the damage that was done to him by Bobo still had him at least at 10 life, so not close to dead. Big mistake... 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Grixis Shadow. In the first game, he discards me and does Serum Visions and Thought Scour. He does a turn 3 Shadow at 2/2 leaving up Blue. I go for the Through the Breach Worldspine Wurm, using Desperate Ritual and SSG because I don't see things getting better from here on out. He doesn't have Stubborn Denial and I win. In the next game, he makes me discard Goryo's Vengeance. He gets double Shadow down, but they're not too big. On the final turn, I need a mana source to Breach a Worldspine Wurm for lethal (he's at 7), but I draw ... Temple of Malice. Ouch! In the final game, he makes me discard Through the Breach, I do turn 2 Sign in Blood. I do turn 3 Sign in Blood after Manamorphose and exile SSG another Sign in Blood, finding another Through the Breach. He taps out on the final turn to put 2 lethal attackers on the field (we're both at 4 and he put Gurmag Angler to join a Shadow). I need to draw an untapped source to Breach Griselbrand, but I draw Temple of Malice. OUUUUCH! The other Griselbrand player says that he would have kept Manamorphose in hand since I originally had Nourishing Shoal. My thought at the time was that it gave me 2 draws to draw Chalice of the Void or Blood Moon on turn 2 to slow him down. From there, my Sign in Bloods could get me there. Huge punt and mistake, but well, you learn. In the past, I had trouble saving Manamorphose in my hand, but then saved it quite a bit. I decided to take a chance that I get Chalice of the Void, which makes it much more safe, although he did do Disdainful Stroke on my first Breach in game 2. 1-2.
Round 4 vs. GW Devoted Elves. In the first game, it is close. I have to Breach a Wurm on turn 3. She has enough blockers to kill 2 of them and survive at 1 life, but she can only put 2 more power the next turn to add to the 2 previously tapped 1/1s, so she scoops. In the next game, she gets some pressure and I go off late with Breach Griselbrand, but it barely gets there. I only Shoal once, but I find the SSGs to Breach Borborgymos Enraged after combat to discard 5 lands. 2-0.
I finish 2-2 and out of money, but I learned a few things tonight. After playing a lot of tournaments recently where play skill didn't seem to matter, I actually punted both losses in super interesting ways.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Thanks for the match history. It takes a ton of time to figure out the perfect plays but its always nice to feel like youre one step closer!
Pro: Enables fetches to tap for B without losing one life
Con: "Fixes" enemy mana bases, if they need B
I think, the upside is rather low and the downside rather big that it would warrant a slot instead of an Swamp. Furthermore, it might makes some Wurm kills more awkward :/
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Thank you for your feedback
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I agree with this statement as well. The deck can be blazingly fast, but I think that Wizards has deemed it too inconsistent and not having a big metashare to have something banned. Outside of Bob Huang and maybe 2 handfuls of others in GPs, the deck hasn't had super results. It also isn't played much.
I would never say that there is no risk, but I think the risk is probably less than 1% in my honest opinion.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I'd agree. It's probably at its lowest chance of being banned in awhile. No other decks are oppressively abusing ssg and Grishoalbrand hasn't done anything high profile in awhile.
I'm a bit worried about the wording of the b&r announcement referencing modern today, but Grishoalbrand is low on my list of worries. Unless they make a huge change to the format and ban all fast mana or something, I think Gris is relatively safe for now. I think gds, storm, Tron or mox opal are a lot more likely to get a ban. Or also decently likely that something gets unbanned.
To be honest, they can only increase the power level of Modern by big changes, cause otherwise they will lose the playbase (they would need to ban so many cards, from Mox Opal to SSG, from Death's Shadow to Valakut, from Urza Tron to Lantern of Insight, from Cranial Plating to Grapeshot,...). Hence, I'm not worried at all regarding this ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I hope you're right. But if any of those are too dominant at the pt, im afraid they might overreact.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Ähm, you are aware, that there were a couple of Jund bans in the past?
Rly? The 4 Bloodstain Mires are not that expensive to skip them...
However, due to how the deck work, there are no really good replacements, cause fast lands are garbage for TTB, Checklands don't go well with the Temples and more basics are not helpful either.
OTP: Chalice + Moon
OTD: Chalice + Axe
This is at least how I board against this deck. Moon is to slow otd that it can really matter, so it only comes in otp.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)