I think Worship slows the opponent down much more. Also it is tougher for the opponent to figure out how to interact with it, so it leaves some room for potential misplays (like not casting a Siege Rhino for lethal). People also don't know exactly how Scapeshift interacts with Worship, although I would presume this one wouldn't come up as often.
With Ghostly Prison, the opponent can swing with 1 huge creature (incredibly rough if it has Trample) each turn. I do think that both of them are good, but overall Worship can be tough to win through turn after turn when the opponent is not finding an answer. Even if the opponent never finds the answer to Ghostly Prison, they can slowly put a group of creatures that can do lethal, pay mana each turn, and keep swinging. I do find 4 mana tough against Affinity and Burn, but in most other situations, especially on the play, 4 mana will come up turn 3 nearly every time.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
On another note, is anyone going to GP Pittsburgh? It's about 2-2.5 hours by car for me, and I'm tempted to make the trek with some people from my LGS. Hoping for a strong showing from Kiki Chord!
I'm hoping to be there (about 2 hours away for me as well), though I'll probably be on Tron instead of Kiki-Chord, since I have way more experience with Tron. I'd be stoked to see a high finish from a Kiki-Chord player though.
I should be there, more than likely going to be playing Kiki-Chord as well, but undecided right now.
I think Worship slows the opponent down much more. Also it is tougher for the opponent to figure out how to interact with it, so it leaves some room for potential misplays (like not casting a Siege Rhino for lethal). People also don't know exactly how Scapeshift interacts with Worship, although I would presume this one wouldn't come up as often.
With Ghostly Prison, the opponent can swing with 1 huge creature (incredibly rough if it has Trample) each turn. I do think that both of them are good, but overall Worship can be tough to win through turn after turn when the opponent is not finding an answer. Even if the opponent never finds the answer to Ghostly Prison, they can slowly put a group of creatures that can do lethal, pay mana each turn, and keep swinging. I do find 4 mana tough against Affinity and Burn, but in most other situations, especially on the play, 4 mana will come up turn 3 nearly every time.
siege rhino kills through worship? how does scapeshift interact?
Siege Rhino is loss of life so it kills through worship, but not many people know that. Scapeshift doesnt kill us when worship is on the field .
Actually it can. The Scapeshift player goes for the "8 lands plan," aka 36 damage through multiples of 3. They put the first triggers on the player and the rest on the creatures. When the creatures die, the triggers on the player will resolve and kill the player with Worship and no more creatures in play. It is very easy for them to do a LOT of damage. When I played Scapeshift, I killed a Soul Sisters player 2-1, doing something close to an average of 60 damage per game. Of course that wasn't one turn. You can prevent this from happening if you have all of the triggers on the stack and flash in Restoration Angel to stay alive, but Scapeshift also has Cryptic Command so it's not guaranteed.
The situation came up for me, so I asked a few Judges to make sure that this ruling is correct.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I agree with Davius on what he said regarding Knightfall. I've only played 1 match, but won it 2-1, although it didn't feel all that close. I lost G2 because of a T1 Hierarch into T2 Geist of Saint Traft into T3 Qasali Pridemage was too much to handle on the draw - but that's basically the only aggro draw that can get through us. G1 and G3 were both rather easy wins. We've got plenty of disruption for their combo, and we can out value them very easily. Solid matchup.
It was a very fun tournament, but also disheartening. I felt like my deck was prepared for everything but I was constantly paired against the fringe decks. I ended up 8th (only x-2 in top) but my draws against Bloom were extremely poor besides game 3 of the top*. I thought Magus of the Moon was an extremely narrow card that locked us out of the game, but it might be worth one sideboard slot because that matchup is horrendous even with Aven Mindcensors, Path to Exile, Reclamation Sage, etc.
* i played a turn 2 Bird and a Path to Exile on his Titan. Turn 3 i played Reclamation Sage on his Amulet of Vigor. Turn 4 Eternal Witness my Path to exile his 2nd titan. Then turn 5 a Restoration Angel of my Witness for the same Path again on his 3rd Titan. I still died to his 4th Titan two turns later... what an awful matchup.
It's been a little while since I've posted a list (been practicing with other decks for GP Pittsburgh). Here's my updated list, made some big changes, but it's been solid in the few matches I've played.
I finally removed Courser of Kruphix. I like the card, and it really helps with flood, but I think the card is just a bit mediocre for modern. On top of that, this deck's grindy game is based around etb abilities, which courser lacks. I also cut the black splash, which is more of a meta call; I haven't been getting much use out of Sin Collector lately. I've been considering further reconfiguration into a Collected Company build, but I want to spend more time with this list first.
Felonious, nice updates ! I think the black splash is needed to stand a chance against combo decks. Im considering cutting courser as well. How often are you mana flooding now? My only problem with cutting the coursers is it helps against flooding and such. Theres enough against burn thats available so thats not a problem. Its also helping you grind through decks as well as they will topdeck land as opposed to our filters. I have won too many games from courser flipping land when I needed it to to comfortably automatically drop it, though I am willing to be wrong .
Been playtesting the deck A LOT the past week and im still liking my current list personally.
Side note, Bloom becoming tier 1 isnt good news. The only bad matchups in my experience have been bloom, tron, and scapeshift everything else is favorable.
I don't really have a great sample size to make any judgements on the list right now (less than 10 matches with this new one) but I haven't had any mana issues so far and I don't really miss Courser. I have regretted removing Sin Collector a few times, so perhaps it's still a good call. When he's good he's really good. My plan is to take Tron to the GP simply because I have a list I'm extremely practiced with. I definitely agree on the bad matchups, I've had a hell of a time against Bloom decks. Not only do they have a fast combo kill, but they also beat our lategame. We need a good mix of disruption and a fairly fast combo to bring them down. If it sees a big spike in popularity at/after the GP, I'll need to pick up a few Aven Mindcensors.
The only argument for it not being banned was its popularity, and it now is tier 1 with pros clammoring for a ban. I think its getting banned out personally which is nice as the deck has one bad prevalent matchup at that point lol!
As someone who has played over 300 matches with the deck, tron and amulet and scapeshift are the only bad matchups (worst). Everything else is favorable honestly.
In my testing, GR Tron was extremely tough. I had 3 Fulminator Mage in the SB with 2 Stony Silence. Some combination of these and the Tron opponent stumbling was pretty much my only hope. I personally decided not to dedicate any more cards to a matchup that I can't help that much without taking out cards that solidify other matchups.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I run 2 Aven Mindcensors SB and mull aggresive for an opening hand which includes path + white source versus Amulet Bloom..
I'm not sure if those decks ever will be banned, Grishoal and/or Ammy Bloom. But I found I pretty much NEED to have a path to not die t2/3.
Last weekend I went 3-0 in a 5 round tournament before running into bloom twice and dying pretty much while I had a forest and BoP in play..
Felt great ;D
Path to Exile is good against those decks, but it definitely doesn't guarantee the win. If you are playing against Bloom, a Titan coming into play will mean that there is another one coming soon (next turn if there is an Amulet of Vigor in play). A Bloom player will go for the safer route if they see Path to Exile mana open.
Against Grishoalbrand, it's usually worse. It does shut off the Through the Breach/Worldspine Wurm line, but it does hardly anything to the Griselbrand line. I played Griselbrand for 2 months and had some high finishes with the deck. I had a game at a PPTQ where my opponent used not one, but two Path to Exile, each in response to an activation on turn 3 when I Vengeance'd Griselbrand. I won the game with a "draw 14 cards" still on the stack. While this is not the norm, allowing your opponent to draw even 7 cards is usually too much for you to fight through. (especially fair decks)
EDIT> I realized that you were just saying that you need the Path to not die on turn 2 or 3, so I digress. Still I think my experience playing Bloom and Grishoalbrand is valuable as a view from the other side.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Still making final tweaks for Pittsburgh.. I'm really worried about BTL Scapeshift, Tron and an abundance of Burn as the deck is pretty much 50/50 Pre and Post board. I've debated cutting something in the MD for Finks #4 to help against Burn but I'm not sure what.. Mindcensor, Negate and Fulminator all seem like viable sideboard options to help in the other two matchups but I'm not sure if I just pray to dodge the two or board better for them.
With Ghostly Prison, the opponent can swing with 1 huge creature (incredibly rough if it has Trample) each turn. I do think that both of them are good, but overall Worship can be tough to win through turn after turn when the opponent is not finding an answer. Even if the opponent never finds the answer to Ghostly Prison, they can slowly put a group of creatures that can do lethal, pay mana each turn, and keep swinging. I do find 4 mana tough against Affinity and Burn, but in most other situations, especially on the play, 4 mana will come up turn 3 nearly every time.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I should be there, more than likely going to be playing Kiki-Chord as well, but undecided right now.
never used worship before
Actually it can. The Scapeshift player goes for the "8 lands plan," aka 36 damage through multiples of 3. They put the first triggers on the player and the rest on the creatures. When the creatures die, the triggers on the player will resolve and kill the player with Worship and no more creatures in play. It is very easy for them to do a LOT of damage. When I played Scapeshift, I killed a Soul Sisters player 2-1, doing something close to an average of 60 damage per game. Of course that wasn't one turn. You can prevent this from happening if you have all of the triggers on the stack and flash in Restoration Angel to stay alive, but Scapeshift also has Cryptic Command so it's not guaranteed.
The situation came up for me, so I asked a few Judges to make sure that this ruling is correct.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)4 windswept heath
4 wooded foothills
3 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Canopy Vista
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 ghost quarter
1 gavony township
Non creature spells (11)
4 chord of calling
3 path to exile
3 utopia sprawl
1 dromoka's command
3 arbor elf
3 voice of resurgence
2 Qasali pridemage
2 scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
3 eternal witness
3 kitchen finks
1 aven mindcensor
4 restoration angel
1 linvala, keeper of silence
1 Pia and kiran nalaar
1 kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1 Reveillark
1 Path to exile
1 dromoka's command
2 stony silence
2 worship
2 crumble to dust
1 burrenton forgetender
1 kataki, war's wage
1 thalia, guardian of thraben
1 eidolon of rhetoric
1 obstinate baloth
1 sigarda, host of herons
I removed the fauna's and doubled the 2 drop hatebear package (scooze, skite and qasali).
Any thoughts to share on these ?
2-0 Naya Zoo
2-1 UR(g) Delver
0-1 Amulet Bloom
1-2 8-Rack
2-1 Storm
Top
1-2 Amulet Bloom
It was a very fun tournament, but also disheartening. I felt like my deck was prepared for everything but I was constantly paired against the fringe decks. I ended up 8th (only x-2 in top) but my draws against Bloom were extremely poor besides game 3 of the top*. I thought Magus of the Moon was an extremely narrow card that locked us out of the game, but it might be worth one sideboard slot because that matchup is horrendous even with Aven Mindcensors, Path to Exile, Reclamation Sage, etc.
* i played a turn 2 Bird and a Path to Exile on his Titan. Turn 3 i played Reclamation Sage on his Amulet of Vigor. Turn 4 Eternal Witness my Path to exile his 2nd titan. Then turn 5 a Restoration Angel of my Witness for the same Path again on his 3rd Titan. I still died to his 4th Titan two turns later... what an awful matchup.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wall of Omens
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Wall of Roots
1x Spellskite
3x Eternal Witness
2x Kitchen Finks
4x Restoration Angel
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Reveillark
4x Chord of Calling
4x Path to Exile
Lands
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
2x Temple Garden
2x Stomping Ground
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Razorverge Thicket
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Gavony Township
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Thragtusk
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Spellskite
1x Crumble to Dust
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Stony Silence
2x Rending Volley
1x Engineered Explosives
I finally removed Courser of Kruphix. I like the card, and it really helps with flood, but I think the card is just a bit mediocre for modern. On top of that, this deck's grindy game is based around etb abilities, which courser lacks. I also cut the black splash, which is more of a meta call; I haven't been getting much use out of Sin Collector lately. I've been considering further reconfiguration into a Collected Company build, but I want to spend more time with this list first.
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
Been playtesting the deck A LOT the past week and im still liking my current list personally.
Side note, Bloom becoming tier 1 isnt good news. The only bad matchups in my experience have been bloom, tron, and scapeshift everything else is favorable.
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Path to Exile is good against those decks, but it definitely doesn't guarantee the win. If you are playing against Bloom, a Titan coming into play will mean that there is another one coming soon (next turn if there is an Amulet of Vigor in play). A Bloom player will go for the safer route if they see Path to Exile mana open.
Against Grishoalbrand, it's usually worse. It does shut off the Through the Breach/Worldspine Wurm line, but it does hardly anything to the Griselbrand line. I played Griselbrand for 2 months and had some high finishes with the deck. I had a game at a PPTQ where my opponent used not one, but two Path to Exile, each in response to an activation on turn 3 when I Vengeance'd Griselbrand. I won the game with a "draw 14 cards" still on the stack. While this is not the norm, allowing your opponent to draw even 7 cards is usually too much for you to fight through. (especially fair decks)
EDIT> I realized that you were just saying that you need the Path to not die on turn 2 or 3, so I digress. Still I think my experience playing Bloom and Grishoalbrand is valuable as a view from the other side.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)4x Birds of Paradise
1x Deceiver Exarch
3x Eternal Witness
3x Fauna Shaman
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3x Kitchen Finks
1x Magus of the Moon
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Restoration Angel
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite
3x Voice of Resurgence
1x Breeding Pool
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Misty Rainforest
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Instant (10)
3x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
3x Path to Exile
1x Burrenton Forge-Tender
2x Choke
1x Stony Silence
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Magus of the Moon
1x Path to Exile
1x Rending Volley
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spellskite
1x Thrun, the Last Troll