I'm not sure that Shadow of the Grave would be better than Ideas Unbound in most situations. But it's a weird card and worth testing. I might try 1-2 next time I play.
I just made an account so I could get in on rebuilding this deck. I ordered what I need to finish iwr09a's list. Did some testing on cockatrice and I felt like I didn't have cards to discard with Cathartic Reunion often enough to justify 4x. Tormenting Voice might be better just because it's cheaper. I'm not sure if draw 2 will cut it over draw 3 but I'm going to test it out more once I get everything in the mail. I'm probably going to stick to 4x Sleight of Hand. Most of the discards are off of Ascendancy triggers and I think that's enough. Ideas Unbound might be better for that slot but I've never played with it. Bought a set just to test and I'll report back eventually. Honestly, it doesn't feel too much worse than my old 3-color Probe list when you're comboing out but I miss Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, and Pyromancer nonsense. I don't care for the Glittering Wish style but maybe it will grow on me as I get better with it.
Mystic Speculation is like a pseudo-Ponder with a Jeskai on the board. I think it's worth messing around with if you're trying to dig for Shadow of the Grave. Not sure that makes it better than Sleight of Hand. If you draw it early, it might just set up a win the next turn or two. You would get hosed drawing it if you're top-decking and only have one turn before you lose but I don't know how often that happens or if you wouldn't just lose anyways. Since it's not a Pyromancer list, a 1 or 2-of could be useful. Some of the other cards mentioned in the list posted by sf45 look spicy.
Just a tiny bit. What this deck really needs is a "reset" card that refills your hand, sort of like Past in Flames in Storm. Before the ban Treasure Cruise served this function; after the ban we saw things like Visions of Beyond and Life from the Loam step up but fall short. Opt is not a reset card, it's just a cantrip.
View from Above seems interesting, I can see playing Grapeshot, I dont understand single copy of Iok or Surgical but if it works for you not gonna push you away from it!
So my view on Shadow of the Grave - In previous iterations when I was going off I actually fizzled sometimes because of drawing poorly and not having enough cards to loot away with Ascendancy like lands/dead dorks. I would have to pitch draw spells and wouldnt be able to keep going. I just have always found with Shadow in my hand, I know I can loot very aggressively, faithless looting becomes essentially R - Draw 2. Now I play 4 copies and I can see going down to three, and maybe trying View from Above.
My list above i cut the island because i i've accepted that fact I'll lose to a quick Blood Moon, and went back to 4 Shadow of the Grave, but I still test everyday with really solid success :).
Yeah since im playing looting, it makes grave that much better, also I dont think you should worry about dredge to much, no1 really plays it and were a lot faster than it. Unless its in your meta than ignore my comment
So I finally got the rest of the cards in the mail for this deck today after a lot of practicing online, and having confidence in playing the deck I was ready to rumble tonight.
Match 1 vs Ponza
G1: Im on the draw and get a turn 1 bird down, he goes land go, i end up resolving a Caryatid on turn 2, He lands a blood Moon and I feel pretty confident then Im gonna win next turn. I resolve Ascendancy, and go off and after my bird was a 15/16 he had seen enough.
G2: I keep a slow but solid hand, he lands a Turn 3 Trinisphere (what) I get 2 Caryatid's and a bird down, cast Ascendancy, Wish for a Wear // Tear then go nuts again.
Match 2 vs UW Control
I knew what this fine gentlemen was playing and didn't think this matchup would be in my favor.
G1: I play 2 dorks, leave some in hand to have incase he verdicts discard a fatestitcher, he taps out for baby Gideon and I go off the next turn.
G2: I kept a sketch hand with no wish/Ascendancy and no dork. He gets a RIP and even though idc about early grave hate I drew a lot of fatestitcher's early. He beat me with snapcaster's.
G3: On the play again I go turn 1 bird, turn 3 Ascendancy with Swan Song back up, went off the next turn with an unearthed fate stitcher followed up by another stitchmaster.
Match 3 vs Storm
G1: Im on the play, I go turn 1 dork, turn 2 Ascendancy, I start to go off on turn 3, I cast about 5-6 spells and drew 6-7 lands/dorks in a row... I fizzled for the first time it was funny. He couldn't kill me the following turn and I went off again the following turn and killed him.
G2: Leyline of Sanctity is good. Slowed him down, ended up winning around turn 5, not a lot happened.
Overall the deck was a blast to play, glittering wish is awesome as usual and I'm still tweaking the deck, updates going forward...
Adding - View from Above - which allows me to go infinite with 2 dorks and Ascendancy.
Cutting down 1 Shadow of the grave, card is nuts but you don't wanna see to many of them to early, could see going down to 2, but I love the card. Also want to mess around with my wish board a lot, could have some better cards in there, but still a work in progress.
Thanks for reading:D
I had really great fun on the last FNM with this deck.
Match History:
1 Win (+3)
2 Win (+3)
3 Loss (+0)
4 Loss (+0)
5 Loss (+0)
I lost to Jeskai Control and Kiki Jiki Control. Very hard to beat when they don't allow my Jeskai Ascendancy in play.
I lost to Dredge too (1-2), he was faster than me. What's funny there was almost no interaction between our decks until the kill round. Each of us playing with himself until comboing off
Glad you had fun playing the deck, but there are a lot of changes I would make as my list has changed a lot and i've went 3-1 4-0 in the past couple times playing..
Looking at your list I do not like Opt or Visions at all, the reason I ran Wisps is because it generates a mana which can be HUGE sometimes when going off with just 1 dork out. I added a mainboard path/bolt to my list so I like that, not sure you need grape shot at all, your not running any faithless looting which seems off because sometimes you need to filter and ditch the fatestitchers when you don't have an Ascendancy in your hand.
Looking at your sideboard, I see what your trying to do but to have ANY game vs UW or Jeskai you need some counter magic out of the board, I have 3 swan song's and I cant tell you how amazing they are, they win me game after game, I haven't lost to UW control yet and its because of Swan Song. Sphinx's rev seems really slow to wish for. Fiery justice should be your sweeper in the board as we don't care about life gain and is usually at worst a 2-1 in our favor. I would cut a lot of your wish Targets for Swan Song's and Leyline of Sanctity as GBx is rough because of all their discard and I cant tell your having this in your deck also makes burn a winnable matchup. Also you NEED Scarescale Ritual in your wishboard, no if and our but's about it.
Heres my Current list that recently beat UW Control 2x, and 4C Burn/Aggro (lost 1-2 to Esper gifts due to me drawing 5 lands in a row)
The thing about Wisps is that it can generate a Mana with just one dork out which has won me games by itself tbh being able to go off with 1 bird and cast an Ideas Unbound because of Wisp.
Regarding Faithless looting, we have so many redundant cards we don't care about -1 card really since 75% of the deck is draw spells, I've kept a 1 lander with Faithless Looting and a Caraytid because I can see +2 more cards and possibly bin a fatestitcher which we want in the GY anyway. Opt only see's 1 card and blind draws you another sometimes. Tested with opt, felt lackluster. Also the flashback on looting CANT BE OVERLOOKED ITS HUGE.
I don't see a need for surgical in the main, idk what your using it on that helps the combo.
Swan Songs are a must trust me if you want any game vs UWx control you will need them.
Sphinx's rev seems win more, if you have 3 dorks and you need to cast a Rev your probably winning anyway.
Abundant Growth is great, can go on a Mana confluence/gemstone mine and not damage/remove counters. It gets around a Possible Blood moon, and Can trips.
Manamorphose I didn't originally have in but it's been huge, It adds +2 mana when going off (can be the difference in fizziling or going off) and can be a mainboard card against Blood moon to filter your mana.
Fiery Justice is a better removal spell then all the cards you mentioned, we dont care about 5 life, everytime I've cast it ive gotten at least a 2-1 killing a thalia/scooze or something else.
Picking this deck up after a long hiatus - I really liked the gifts-ascendancy version of the deck where you could do a t3 tutor norn/iona, or tutor up the life from the loam / flame jab engine if you had ascendancy out. The few times I tried "pure" ascendancy combo (no gifts alternate plan) I would get smoked by people answering ascendancy with counters or discard or decay/weartear/dsphere. Unless I'm mistaken this version of the deck cannot do anything if it does not resolve ascendancy.
That being said leyline and swan song look like solid efforts to shore up those problems out of the board.
The one card I see in sideboards that is a headscratcher to me is failure // comply. This card is really really bad so I'm not sure what its shoring up here? I assume its there because its a tutorable counterspell, but the scenarios are not obvious to me where I want to tutor this.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
You are right about failure // comply I cut it from my list, you can read my reports under the Modern Reddit section with the deck Im usually 4-0 or 3-1 with it every week recently went 4-0 (8-0 in games) here's my current list.
This may have been asked before but is there any advantage to playing this deck over regular old storm?
We're slightly less vulnerable to grave hate but losing fatestitcher is still pretty rough, we're equally vulnerable to rule of law effects. To the extent we have an advantage id guess its being able to wish for answers - esp game 1. This insulates us from extraction on ascendancy - although again I dont think storm autoloses to a single extraction either (they play a few empty the warrens - and can win without past in flames in a pinch). We seem equally vulnerable to chalice.
So yeah when chips are down is this really a strictly worse storm deck? Or is there something we can do that a storm deck cannot? All I can think of is cracking someone for 20 with a jacked up bird through a leyline of sanctity
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
This may have been asked before but is there any advantage to playing this deck over regular old storm?
We're slightly less vulnerable to grave hate but losing fatestitcher is still pretty rough, we're equally vulnerable to rule of law effects. To the extent we have an advantage id guess its being able to wish for answers - esp game 1. This insulates us from extraction on ascendancy - although again I dont think storm autoloses to a single extraction either (they play a few empty the warrens - and can win without past in flames in a pinch). We seem equally vulnerable to chalice.
So yeah when chips are down is this really a strictly worse storm deck? Or is there something we can do that a storm deck cannot? All I can think of is cracking someone for 20 with a jacked up bird through a leyline of sanctity
We are not a worse storm deck, we are a different combo deck with similar ways of winning if that makes any sense. We are less vulnerable to hate, We actually dont care about chalice sometimes,chalice on 1 slows us down but wish for decay and your good. IMO we are more turn 3 consistent then storm, and our sideboard plan is actually better... but thats just me, read my reports on reddit, im like 27-3-3 or something now in paper with the deck.
The sideboard plan looks really clean - just flat out 4 leylines 3 swan songs and a dispel. Do they have discard? Leyline. Do they have ways to counter or destroy ascendancy? Counters.
What do you take out generally though? Im often cutting the path and bolt and then just a mix of looting, abundant growth and other cantrips. Not sure if theres a better approach.
The biggest stumbling blocks I can see would be things like ethersworn canonist or thalia as we need to take the time to find a wish, wish for an answer, and cast it. If we're lucky we stick an ascendancy and dork first and away we go, but if we dont stick an ascendancy that is a long crawl uphill. I would guess that you also dont want to answer these cards until you're ready to go off to avoid them casting another copy right afterwards. That further slows you down if you need to find and resolve ascendancy before wishing for an answer to thalia/canonist/meddling mage.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
The sideboard plan looks really clean - just flat out 4 leylines 3 swan songs and a dispel. Do they have discard? Leyline. Do they have ways to counter or destroy ascendancy? Counters.
What do you take out generally though? Im often cutting the path and bolt and then just a mix of looting, abundant growth and other cantrips. Not sure if theres a better approach.
The biggest stumbling blocks I can see would be things like ethersworn canonist or thalia as we need to take the time to find a wish, wish for an answer, and cast it. If we're lucky we stick an ascendancy and dork first and away we go, but if we dont stick an ascendancy that is a long crawl uphill. I would guess that you also dont want to answer these cards until you're ready to go off to avoid them casting another copy right afterwards. That further slows you down if you need to find and resolve ascendancy before wishing for an answer to thalia/canonist/meddling mage.
Not many decks run Canonist, I've gone off through a thalia before, meddling mage is odd because game 1 a lot of people may not know whats happening, if we already have ascendancy in play, what do they name? If they name ascendancy we have wish to kill mage etc. Im messing around with my current list, going -1 dispel in the side and -1 fiery justice for +2 young pyromancer to make our BGx matchup closer to 50/50
Does that work? Its not like they're boarding out removal since killing our dorks is a valid play (ive had to stop comboing when a fatestitcher got pathd and wait to try again next turn). If anything caryatid will incentivize them to bring in sweepers that easily clear yp.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Does that work? Its not like they're boarding out removal since killing our dorks is a valid play (ive had to stop comboing when a fatestitcher got pathd and wait to try again next turn). If anything caryatid will incentivize them to bring in sweepers that easily clear yp.
So The decks we bring in Peeze vs are decks that are really interactive with our combo, Shadow/Jund/Abzan/any thoughtseize.deck and most of these decks maybe run 1 sweeper if any tbh, were not bringing it in vs control because we already have 3 swan songs for control. In my testing so far, if you can untap with peeze in play, its really hard to lose because you can still go for the combo with ascendancy and can trips while making a huge army of elementals.
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4 sylvan caryatid
4 fatestitcher
4 glittering wish
3 jeskai ascendancy
4 serum visions
4 sleight of hand
4 ideas unbound
4 shadow of the grave
4 faithless looting
3 cerulean wisps
2 grapeshot
4 mana confluence
4 gemstone mine
4 botanical sanctum
4 wear // tear
4 leyline of sanctity
4 swan song
1 jeskai ascendancy
1 mind grind
1 flesh // blood
Currently playing in Modern:
BBB8Rack
Currently Playing in Legacy:
Foil BELCHER
"Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake"
Mystic Speculation is like a pseudo-Ponder with a Jeskai on the board. I think it's worth messing around with if you're trying to dig for Shadow of the Grave. Not sure that makes it better than Sleight of Hand. If you draw it early, it might just set up a win the next turn or two. You would get hosed drawing it if you're top-decking and only have one turn before you lose but I don't know how often that happens or if you wouldn't just lose anyways. Since it's not a Pyromancer list, a 1 or 2-of could be useful. Some of the other cards mentioned in the list posted by sf45 look spicy.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
id say it "helps" but not enough. IMO.
//Creature (12)
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Fatestitcher
4 Sylvan Caryatid
//Enchantment (3)
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
//Instant (9)
3 Cerulean Wisps
1 Noxious Revival
3 Shadow of the Grave
1 Visions of Beyond
//Sorcery (20)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Glittering Wish
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
//Land (17)
1 Island
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Failure // Comply
SB: 1 Flesh // Blood
SB: 1 Jeskai Ascendancy
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Scarscale Ritual
SB: 1 Sultai Charm
SB: 2 Swan Song
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
So my view on Shadow of the Grave - In previous iterations when I was going off I actually fizzled sometimes because of drawing poorly and not having enough cards to loot away with Ascendancy like lands/dead dorks. I would have to pitch draw spells and wouldnt be able to keep going. I just have always found with Shadow in my hand, I know I can loot very aggressively, faithless looting becomes essentially R - Draw 2. Now I play 4 copies and I can see going down to three, and maybe trying View from Above.
My list above i cut the island because i i've accepted that fact I'll lose to a quick Blood Moon, and went back to 4 Shadow of the Grave, but I still test everyday with really solid success :).
Hope I answered your question best i could
Match 1 vs Ponza
G1: Im on the draw and get a turn 1 bird down, he goes land go, i end up resolving a Caryatid on turn 2, He lands a blood Moon and I feel pretty confident then Im gonna win next turn. I resolve Ascendancy, and go off and after my bird was a 15/16 he had seen enough.
G2: I keep a slow but solid hand, he lands a Turn 3 Trinisphere (what) I get 2 Caryatid's and a bird down, cast Ascendancy, Wish for a Wear // Tear then go nuts again.
Match 2 vs UW Control
I knew what this fine gentlemen was playing and didn't think this matchup would be in my favor.
G1: I play 2 dorks, leave some in hand to have incase he verdicts discard a fatestitcher, he taps out for baby Gideon and I go off the next turn.
G2: I kept a sketch hand with no wish/Ascendancy and no dork. He gets a RIP and even though idc about early grave hate I drew a lot of fatestitcher's early. He beat me with snapcaster's.
G3: On the play again I go turn 1 bird, turn 3 Ascendancy with Swan Song back up, went off the next turn with an unearthed fate stitcher followed up by another stitchmaster.
Match 3 vs Storm
G1: Im on the play, I go turn 1 dork, turn 2 Ascendancy, I start to go off on turn 3, I cast about 5-6 spells and drew 6-7 lands/dorks in a row... I fizzled for the first time it was funny. He couldn't kill me the following turn and I went off again the following turn and killed him.
G2: Leyline of Sanctity is good. Slowed him down, ended up winning around turn 5, not a lot happened.
Overall the deck was a blast to play, glittering wish is awesome as usual and I'm still tweaking the deck, updates going forward...
Adding - View from Above - which allows me to go infinite with 2 dorks and Ascendancy.
Cutting down 1 Shadow of the grave, card is nuts but you don't wanna see to many of them to early, could see going down to 2, but I love the card. Also want to mess around with my wish board a lot, could have some better cards in there, but still a work in progress.
Thanks for reading:D
Glad you had fun playing the deck, but there are a lot of changes I would make as my list has changed a lot and i've went 3-1 4-0 in the past couple times playing..
Looking at your list I do not like Opt or Visions at all, the reason I ran Wisps is because it generates a mana which can be HUGE sometimes when going off with just 1 dork out. I added a mainboard path/bolt to my list so I like that, not sure you need grape shot at all, your not running any faithless looting which seems off because sometimes you need to filter and ditch the fatestitchers when you don't have an Ascendancy in your hand.
Looking at your sideboard, I see what your trying to do but to have ANY game vs UW or Jeskai you need some counter magic out of the board, I have 3 swan song's and I cant tell you how amazing they are, they win me game after game, I haven't lost to UW control yet and its because of Swan Song. Sphinx's rev seems really slow to wish for. Fiery justice should be your sweeper in the board as we don't care about life gain and is usually at worst a 2-1 in our favor. I would cut a lot of your wish Targets for Swan Song's and Leyline of Sanctity as GBx is rough because of all their discard and I cant tell your having this in your deck also makes burn a winnable matchup. Also you NEED Scarescale Ritual in your wishboard, no if and our but's about it.
Heres my Current list that recently beat UW Control 2x, and 4C Burn/Aggro (lost 1-2 to Esper gifts due to me drawing 5 lands in a row)
//Creature (12)
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Fatestitcher
4 Sylvan Caryatid
//Enchantment (4)
1 Abundant Growth
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
//Instant (7)
2 Cerulean Wisps
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Manamorphose
1 Path to Exile
1 View from Above
//Sorcery (21)
1 Claim // Fame
4 Faithless Looting
4 Glittering Wish
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
//Land (16)
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Failure // Comply
SB: 1 Fiery Justice
SB: 1 Flesh // Blood
SB: 1 Guttural Response
SB: 1 Jeskai Ascendancy
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Scarscale Ritual
SB: 3 Swan Song
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
Regarding Faithless looting, we have so many redundant cards we don't care about -1 card really since 75% of the deck is draw spells, I've kept a 1 lander with Faithless Looting and a Caraytid because I can see +2 more cards and possibly bin a fatestitcher which we want in the GY anyway. Opt only see's 1 card and blind draws you another sometimes. Tested with opt, felt lackluster. Also the flashback on looting CANT BE OVERLOOKED ITS HUGE.
I don't see a need for surgical in the main, idk what your using it on that helps the combo.
Swan Songs are a must trust me if you want any game vs UWx control you will need them.
Sphinx's rev seems win more, if you have 3 dorks and you need to cast a Rev your probably winning anyway.
Abundant Growth is great, can go on a Mana confluence/gemstone mine and not damage/remove counters. It gets around a Possible Blood moon, and Can trips.
Manamorphose I didn't originally have in but it's been huge, It adds +2 mana when going off (can be the difference in fizziling or going off) and can be a mainboard card against Blood moon to filter your mana.
Fiery Justice is a better removal spell then all the cards you mentioned, we dont care about 5 life, everytime I've cast it ive gotten at least a 2-1 killing a thalia/scooze or something else.
That being said leyline and swan song look like solid efforts to shore up those problems out of the board.
The one card I see in sideboards that is a headscratcher to me is failure // comply. This card is really really bad so I'm not sure what its shoring up here? I assume its there because its a tutorable counterspell, but the scenarios are not obvious to me where I want to tutor this.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
//Creature (12)
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Fatestitcher
4 Sylvan Caryatid
//Enchantment (4)
1 Abundant Growth
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
//Instant (7)
2 Cerulean Wisps
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Manamorphose
1 Path to Exile
1 View from Above
//Sorcery (21)
1 Claim // Fame
4 Faithless Looting
4 Glittering Wish
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
//Land (16)
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mana Confluence
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Dispel
SB: 1 Fiery Justice
SB: 1 Flesh // Blood
SB: 1 Guttural Response
SB: 1 Jeskai Ascendancy
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Scarscale Ritual
SB: 3 Swan Song
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
We're slightly less vulnerable to grave hate but losing fatestitcher is still pretty rough, we're equally vulnerable to rule of law effects. To the extent we have an advantage id guess its being able to wish for answers - esp game 1. This insulates us from extraction on ascendancy - although again I dont think storm autoloses to a single extraction either (they play a few empty the warrens - and can win without past in flames in a pinch). We seem equally vulnerable to chalice.
So yeah when chips are down is this really a strictly worse storm deck? Or is there something we can do that a storm deck cannot? All I can think of is cracking someone for 20 with a jacked up bird through a leyline of sanctity
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
We are not a worse storm deck, we are a different combo deck with similar ways of winning if that makes any sense. We are less vulnerable to hate, We actually dont care about chalice sometimes,chalice on 1 slows us down but wish for decay and your good. IMO we are more turn 3 consistent then storm, and our sideboard plan is actually better... but thats just me, read my reports on reddit, im like 27-3-3 or something now in paper with the deck.
What do you take out generally though? Im often cutting the path and bolt and then just a mix of looting, abundant growth and other cantrips. Not sure if theres a better approach.
The biggest stumbling blocks I can see would be things like ethersworn canonist or thalia as we need to take the time to find a wish, wish for an answer, and cast it. If we're lucky we stick an ascendancy and dork first and away we go, but if we dont stick an ascendancy that is a long crawl uphill. I would guess that you also dont want to answer these cards until you're ready to go off to avoid them casting another copy right afterwards. That further slows you down if you need to find and resolve ascendancy before wishing for an answer to thalia/canonist/meddling mage.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Not many decks run Canonist, I've gone off through a thalia before, meddling mage is odd because game 1 a lot of people may not know whats happening, if we already have ascendancy in play, what do they name? If they name ascendancy we have wish to kill mage etc. Im messing around with my current list, going -1 dispel in the side and -1 fiery justice for +2 young pyromancer to make our BGx matchup closer to 50/50
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
So The decks we bring in Peeze vs are decks that are really interactive with our combo, Shadow/Jund/Abzan/any thoughtseize.deck and most of these decks maybe run 1 sweeper if any tbh, were not bringing it in vs control because we already have 3 swan songs for control. In my testing so far, if you can untap with peeze in play, its really hard to lose because you can still go for the combo with ascendancy and can trips while making a huge army of elementals.