I have been trying so many ways to get this combo to work consistently past all of the common discard and maindeck removal stuff that can prevent the combo. I like that this list can beat skred and the others that maindeck blood moon.
Have you got any FNM results you can share to show some of the matchups? I am wondering if supply/demand tutoring is fast enough or ends up getting you killed by aggro decks?
Really? RG tron is 'even' and U tron even unfavorable? Living end even? How do you lose these matchups? It also seems almost impossible to lose against Lantern control. They need both their surgicals on wish and JAC to even stand a chance..
Blue moon also never felt that hard to me. They have no clock and blood moon is only impressive if they also kill all your dorks, which is pretty hard with caryatid. If you also happen to run manamorphose it's not a problem at all.
I think Infect is less favorable than even because they can be as fast and have disruption even though we have little to no disruption for them. This is why I like running a slaughter pact because it doubles as free spell and interaction that they can't ignore (unless they probe you, of course). Also, I think most aggro decks should be not so favorable because you easily deal tons of damage to yourself which can seriously speed up their clock, putting you under a lot of pressure to find your combo quickly or die.
Jund, Abzan and Burn should be in another category: agony :P.
Really? RG tron is 'even' and U tron even unfavorable? Living end even? How do you lose these matchups? It also seems almost impossible to lose against Lantern control. They need both their surgicals on wish and JAC to even stand a chance..
Blue moon also never felt that hard to me. They have no clock and blood moon is only impressive if they also kill all your dorks, which is pretty hard with caryatid. If you also happen to run manamorphose it's not a problem at all.
I think Infect is less favorable than even because they can be as fast and have disruption even though we have little to no disruption for them. This is why I like running a slaughter pact because it doubles as free spell and interaction that they can't ignore (unless they probe you, of course). Also, I think most aggro decks should be not so favorable because you easily deal tons of damage to yourself which can seriously speed up their clock, putting you under a lot of pressure to find your combo quickly or die.
Jund, Abzan and Burn should be in another category: agony :P.
The reason U tron is unfavorable is because they run Chalice of the Void, bounce spells, and counter magic. The reason RG Tron is even instead of favorable is because you have to have the kill before they get tron online. Living End is even because they have a consistent turn 3 board wipe. Lantern Control has hand attack to disrupt the combo long enough to get the lock online.
The reason U tron is unfavorable is because they run Chalice of the Void, bounce spells, and counter magic. The reason RG Tron is even instead of favorable is because you have to have the kill before they get tron online. Living End is even because they have a consistent turn 3 board wipe. Lantern Control has hand attack to disrupt the combo long enough to get the lock online.
Ok, well, I haven't seen chalice from U tron yet but that is certainly a bit annoying. On the other hand, they need it all to even come close to have a chance because they're slow as hell. Maybe with the nutdraw they have a chance but it's still very hard to believe it's merely even. Chalice is at most a 4-off that they need to have in the top 8-9 cards and even if they do, they need to actually do something or you wish for decay and kill them.
With RG tron, I disagree completely. In the treasure cruise era, I tested a lot against a friend of mine. Even after sideboarding and with him on the play, I had like an 80% win rate. T3 karn on the play is not good enough. It only became interesting if I couldn't combo off through it immediately and he had a follow-up O-stone ready to blow (or I just bricked completely). Even though we don't have cruise anymore, that doesn't change much in this case. Before their T4, they can do practically nothing of importance and our goldfish is definitely faster than that.
I've only played against Living End when I ran multiple Silence, so perhaps that's why I thought it was a cakewalk. Still, a boardwipe is not really all that impressive considering we have fatestitchers to go off right after anyway. Not to mention what they might be returning to our battlefield with living end.
Lantern doesn't play that much hand disruption that it can stop you from playing any mana dorks/wishes/cantrips. A deck that is half cantrip is pretty hard to lock out and without a hard lock they're not winning because we don't care about bridge. Sure, it's possible to lose if they happen to take your wish/JAC and surgical it + have a soft lock to mill us out before we can find an out, but it seems pretty unlikely. Also, all this is basically assuming that your opponent knows the matchup. If any of these decks keep a reasonable hand in the dark, chances are they get completely steamrolled and then it's easy to win 1 out of 2 SB games.
RIP this deck for now :(. I wouldn't fault someone for trying with Peek, or maxing out on Visions from Beyond and Thought Scours, and I could see this deck being a good choice to attack certain metas (where BGx has been pushed out by tron, for example). But losing probe will hurt its advantage of having a quick goldfish against fast combo and aggro, the information against disruptive decks, among many other things. The card was very strong, and they were right to ban it imo.
It sucks that probe was banned, but I've been still testing. I like using Open the Armory as a tool kit for fetching Abundant Growth, one-of Wind Zendikon and one-of the somewhat win-more aura Shimmering Wings that lets you net infinite +1s and loots at 2 dorks and infinite mana with 3 dorks. The next set also has a powered down Abundant Growth in Unbridled Growth
Also Blessed Alliance doesnt look bad so I'm testing a couple. It doesnt draw a card but it has 3 relevant modes - gain life against burn, sac a threat, and untap creatures which nets mana with ascendancy out never mind its kinda meh mid-combo
If the probe ban wasn't bad enough for this deck already, the fact that Fatal Push will most likely cause BGx decks to get more popular (and possibly as a consequence, burn) puts the final nail in the coffin. I recently played this deck again in an FNM because I felt like it and I hadn't seen all that many bad matchups in the local meta in a while. Sadly, I of course had to face the only 2 BGx decks in the room (of 30 players or so) who normally don't even play BGx and despite having pyromancers in the board and having a fairly close g3 against Jund, it was as miserable as ever to play against. Against Abzan, I had no chance whatsoever. Granted, my draws were below average and theirs perhaps above, but considering JAC got (way) worse and they gained, you must be pretty masochistic to still try to play this deck.
The best we can hope for is that they unban Eye of Ugin (and probe) in some lapse of judgement ;).
I just found a list that top 4d a Face to face Sunday Showdown on Feb. 5.
The manabase seems dicey when you're using only fatestitcher to combo, but maybe it's good enough otherwise to make it worth it. I like the nagging thoughts idea, it's funny but it might work.
Here's another good looking deck that did well in a MODO league recently. h/t user 122pablo.
I like the look of this list a lot. Manamorphose makes a lot of sense as the card to replace probe, as its a free cantrip when you're digging or mid-combo. Going up on noxious revivals for explosiveness makes sense, and the 1 and 2-ofs seem like fine choices (I'd go -1 bolt, 1-swan song, +2 path though). Izzet Boilerworks is cute, I haven't seen it before. If I pick up this deck again, I'll probably start with a list like this.
Here are the matchups in my opinion.
Favorable-
Abzan Company
Titan Shift
Merfolk
Elves
Dredge
Zoo
Kiki Chord
Bogles
Even-
Bant Eldrazi
Infect
Affinity
RG Tron
Jeskai Control
Lantern Control
Ad Nauseam
Living End
Unfavorable-
Jund
Abzan
Blue Moon
Burn
Death and Taxes
Mono U Tron
RWGNaya BurnRWG
WURGJeskai AscendancyWURG
EDH Decks
GRRosheen MeandererGR
Legacy Decks
RBurnR
Pauper Decks
RBurnR
Blue moon also never felt that hard to me. They have no clock and blood moon is only impressive if they also kill all your dorks, which is pretty hard with caryatid. If you also happen to run manamorphose it's not a problem at all.
I think Infect is less favorable than even because they can be as fast and have disruption even though we have little to no disruption for them. This is why I like running a slaughter pact because it doubles as free spell and interaction that they can't ignore (unless they probe you, of course). Also, I think most aggro decks should be not so favorable because you easily deal tons of damage to yourself which can seriously speed up their clock, putting you under a lot of pressure to find your combo quickly or die.
Jund, Abzan and Burn should be in another category: agony :P.
The reason U tron is unfavorable is because they run Chalice of the Void, bounce spells, and counter magic. The reason RG Tron is even instead of favorable is because you have to have the kill before they get tron online. Living End is even because they have a consistent turn 3 board wipe. Lantern Control has hand attack to disrupt the combo long enough to get the lock online.
RWGNaya BurnRWG
WURGJeskai AscendancyWURG
EDH Decks
GRRosheen MeandererGR
Legacy Decks
RBurnR
Pauper Decks
RBurnR
Ok, well, I haven't seen chalice from U tron yet but that is certainly a bit annoying. On the other hand, they need it all to even come close to have a chance because they're slow as hell. Maybe with the nutdraw they have a chance but it's still very hard to believe it's merely even. Chalice is at most a 4-off that they need to have in the top 8-9 cards and even if they do, they need to actually do something or you wish for decay and kill them.
With RG tron, I disagree completely. In the treasure cruise era, I tested a lot against a friend of mine. Even after sideboarding and with him on the play, I had like an 80% win rate. T3 karn on the play is not good enough. It only became interesting if I couldn't combo off through it immediately and he had a follow-up O-stone ready to blow (or I just bricked completely). Even though we don't have cruise anymore, that doesn't change much in this case. Before their T4, they can do practically nothing of importance and our goldfish is definitely faster than that.
I've only played against Living End when I ran multiple Silence, so perhaps that's why I thought it was a cakewalk. Still, a boardwipe is not really all that impressive considering we have fatestitchers to go off right after anyway. Not to mention what they might be returning to our battlefield with living end.
Lantern doesn't play that much hand disruption that it can stop you from playing any mana dorks/wishes/cantrips. A deck that is half cantrip is pretty hard to lock out and without a hard lock they're not winning because we don't care about bridge. Sure, it's possible to lose if they happen to take your wish/JAC and surgical it + have a soft lock to mill us out before we can find an out, but it seems pretty unlikely. Also, all this is basically assuming that your opponent knows the matchup. If any of these decks keep a reasonable hand in the dark, chances are they get completely steamrolled and then it's easy to win 1 out of 2 SB games.
RWGNaya BurnRWG
WURGJeskai AscendancyWURG
EDH Decks
GRRosheen MeandererGR
Legacy Decks
RBurnR
Pauper Decks
RBurnR
Also Blessed Alliance doesnt look bad so I'm testing a couple. It doesnt draw a card but it has 3 relevant modes - gain life against burn, sac a threat, and untap creatures which nets mana with ascendancy outnever mind its kinda meh mid-comboThe best we can hope for is that they unban Eye of Ugin (and probe) in some lapse of judgement ;).
can surgical extraction or mutagenic growth take it's place?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
4 Birds Of Paradise
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Fatestitcher
Spells (31)
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight Of Hand
4 Thought Scour
4 Faithless Looting
2 Nagging Thoughts
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Glittering Wish
1 Postmortem Lunge
1 Noxious Revival
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 City Of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
4 Botanical Sanctum
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Monastery Mentor
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
2 Reborn Hope
1 Flesh // Blood
1 Sigarda, Host Of Herons
1 Villainous Wealth
1 Slaughter Games
1 Maelstrom Pulse
Maybe the deck is still viable. I will do some testing and see what I can figure out.
RWGNaya BurnRWG
WURGJeskai AscendancyWURG
EDH Decks
GRRosheen MeandererGR
Legacy Decks
RBurnR
Pauper Decks
RBurnR
The manabase seems dicey when you're using only fatestitcher to combo, but maybe it's good enough otherwise to make it worth it. I like the nagging thoughts idea, it's funny but it might work.
Here's another good looking deck that did well in a MODO league recently. h/t user 122pablo.
- 1 Breeding Pool
- 1 Hallowed Fountain
- 1 Island
- 1 Izzet Boilerworks
- 1 Steam Vents
- 1 Stomping Ground
- 1 Temple Garden
- 2 Flooded Strand
- 4 Gemstone Mine
- 4 Misty Rainforest
- 3 Fatestitcher
- 4 Birds of Paradise
- 4 Sylvan Caryatid
- 3 Jeskai Ascendancy
- 1 Lightning Bolt
- 1 Path to Exile
- 1 Silence
- 1 Swan Song
- 2 Noxious Revival
- 3 Cerulean Wisps
- 4 Manamorphose
- 1 Mystic Speculation
- 1 Nagging Thoughts
- 2 Faithless Looting
- 4 Glittering Wish
- 4 Serum Visions
- 4 Sleight of Hand
sbI like the look of this list a lot. Manamorphose makes a lot of sense as the card to replace probe, as its a free cantrip when you're digging or mid-combo. Going up on noxious revivals for explosiveness makes sense, and the 1 and 2-ofs seem like fine choices (I'd go -1 bolt, 1-swan song, +2 path though). Izzet Boilerworks is cute, I haven't seen it before. If I pick up this deck again, I'll probably start with a list like this.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/shadow-ascendancy/
Sideboard was copied from somewhere else, if there is something you find odd I would not know why its there other than being a wish board.
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Breeding Pool
4x Cathartic Reunion
3x Cerulean Wisps
4x City of Brass
4x Faithless Looting
4x Fatestitcher
4x Flooded Strand
4x Glittering Wish
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
4x Izzet Charm
3x Jeskai Ascendancy
4x Mana Confluence
4x Serum Visions
4x Shadow of the Grave
1x Steam Vents
4x Sylvan Caryatid
Sideboard
1x Aurelia's Fury
1x Bound/Determined
1x Detention Sphere
1x Flesh / Blood
1x Hydroform
1x Jeskai Ascendancy
1x Meddling Mage
1x Mind Grind
1x Reborn Hope
1x Research/Development
1x Scarscale Ritual
1x Supply/Demand
3x Swan Song
Testing Result will come in