I really like one or two twisted image since spellskite can block a win plus it accelerates your "storm" count by making sylvan a 4 1 with an ascendancy in play plus it cn make blocks more favorable. Maybe its just a personal preference.
It seems to me that the situation in which they have a Spellskite in play AND you can't win via the combat step by tapping down blockers with Fatestitcher would be so rare that it's not worth playing a hyperspecific card for. It's true that Spellskite shuts of Fatestitcher, but wishing for a removal spell seems better than 1-2 Twisted Image.
EDIT: As for flex spots, I have been enjoying 2 Izzet Charms--but I'd like to test Mentor in that spot as well. Spellskite is an interesting suggestion, to move from side to main. It's likely that Silence/Swan Song/Mentor/Izzet Charm/Spellskite/cantrips in that spot comes down to personal preference and your individual meta. Izzet Charm has been working well as a catch-all for me. Counters spells, kills hatebears, loots cards.
I'm really on board with the main deck Spellskites. I'm gonna do some testing with these changes and see how it feels.
----
@Arkaedrian
Manamorphose is useless, Anticipate is great in all stages of the game. Pre combo it digs for Ascendancy, Wish, or Dorks, post combo it digs for gas to keep things rolling.
Visions of Beyond is useless. Even with Thought Scour getting 20 cards in your grave isn't as easy as it would seem, Pre combo it's just a vanilla cantrip, post combo it's still not guaranteed to be anything but a vanilla cantrip.
You want Fatestitcher in the deck. He makes comboing off much more consistent. He also lets you combo off from a board state of no creatures, or 1 creature a lot easier.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
I'm still not sure if I should play 4/3 Ideas Unbound/Anticipate or 3/4 would be better. It's really hard to say, I have to test more.
I play 1 Faithless Looting main. Maybe you think that card disadvantage makes that card unplayable, but it has many upsides other 1 cmc cantrips don't have:
1. It can be easily discarded and later in case of fizzling it gives us to look at another 3 cards (Trigger + 2 from spell). Flashback is nice
2. It can draw 2 new cards, not just 1 like any other cantrip does. Useful against hand flooded with useless lands and mana dorks.
3. It can speed up Fatestitcher kill by discarding it before casting Ascendancy.
Despite many advantages I play only 1. This deck just can't card disadvantage itself. Drawing 1 is nearly always fine (at least it's great discard target, usefull when we have to combo from only 2 cards in hand)but multiples can be problematic.
Manabase is built around reducing damage taking from lands. 2 basic lands, 2 Grove of the Burnwillows and Gemstone Mine help a lot.
Building good Sidebaord (especially Wishboard) in my opinion it's very hard. We have to reduce sideboard slots dedicated to Wishboard to minimum. After a lot of testing I reduced from 11 to 6 slots:
Jeskai Ascendancy - obvious
Scarscale Riual - the cheapest option to draw more then 1 card from Glittering Wish
Guttural Repsonse - for countermagic, sometimes Vapor Snag
Slaughter Games - sometimes it's easier to stop opponents' combo than to kill with big Fatestitcher (great against Ad Nauseam, Goryo and other crazy combos). Sometimes can be used as expensive discard spell.
Wear/Tear - catch all answer. Good against Eidolons, Chalice of the Void, Blood Moon, Leylines, Pyromancer Ascension and so on. So good and universal that I play additional copy to side in.
Abrupt Decay - cheapest way to kill problematic creatures. Public enemies - Qasali Pridemage and Meddling Mage. Also it's good enough as catch all card, becomes better when I side in 2 Wear//Tears.
The rest slots have to be spent on the best cards avaible. They had to be good against more than 1 match up. Since we have good responses to permanent hate these 8 slots should be used to fight other ways to disrupt - countermagic and discard. The best options avaiable are Swan Songs (good against both countermagic and other combo decks) and Leyline of Sanctity (good against discard, Burn and random decks like UB Mill). In last slot I usually use another Spellskite - great sideboard card, good response to Abrupt Decay, Disenchant effects, burn spells and strategies like Infect or Bogles.
I don't play Flesh//Blood. 97,4% of time we can kill using Fatestitchers, in my opinion it's better to have additional slot in sideboard than have response for that 2,6% of situations.
Yes, it can ba a problem. After tournament I played today (went 3-1) I can say that Spellskites are awesome, won me 2 matches. Also Anticipate and 4 Ideas Unbound are good, but sometimes it's hard to start combo from so little number of 1 cmc spells. I started value Gitaxian Probe more, it's our only 1 spell which can upgrade us from having 1 mana to 2 mana to cast for example Ideas Unbound.
As long as BGx is not deck to beat Jeskai combo will be good choice for tournaments.
Here's the list I've been playing. I haven't had a chance to test out Fatestitcher yet but so far this list has been insanely consistent, definitely my best version especially with all the help I got here!
6 "free" spells helps to go off on turn 2 or 3 very often. Anticipate is definitely better than Manamorphose. Also, Noxious Revival is amazing as someone had mentioned previously. It's a "free" spell that can let us go off T2, or get back a discarded/destroyed/countered Jeskai Ascendancy, or put a fetchland on top on our opponents library.
In a metagame consisting almost exclusively of infect, affinity, and tron, which jeskai ascendency build would be better, this one or the combo-control version?
@Arkaedrian: Personally, I would cut the Wisps for 3 Fatestitcher and another land. Wisps are a cantrip that really only work if you're going off or at least have a creature out. 11 creatures is a touch low for my preferences. Glad 2 Noxious Revival are working for you--as I said, they've been great for me in both comboing off and giving my resiliency.
i would keep the wisps because they do help you combo off if you need to draw int an acendancy and donthave enoughf mana to tap a dork down and play an acendancy. Its also instant speed and helps you win with mentor or pyromancer. Its a good card
Yeah I'm definitely going to be keeping at least 3 Wisps. Il cut 1 Ideas unbound and 1 Wisp for 2 Fatestitcher.
Also, Everyone in my area keeps telling me that Manamorphose is much better than Anticipate. I'm going to replace my 4x Anticipate and give it another shot, the more I think about it though the more it makes sense.
You're welcome to try it, but I tend to trust my results over the opinions of people who aren't playing the deck that I'm playing. I had Manamorphose in my initial builds, but it didn't speed me up and it didn't give me the consistency that Anticipate does. But certainly let us know if your results and opinion reverses on the card.
EFro's article is a solid intro for people new to the deck--it was actually a driving force for me to start testing it. I think it's important to stress that there is no "optimal" list that has been set in stone. Card choices and their numbers can be tweaked to preference and meta.
I love anticipate but it is 2 mana and you don't want to play to many 2 mana cards in the deck. It does a lot for you however but manamorphose alows you to play it and add the mana you need for other plays that turn to continue going off. I like anticipate in budget builds however.
I just think that Wisps and Manamorphose are cards that are great when you're goldfishing--but are less good when your opponent is interacting with you. In any case, Manamorphose is also requires two mana, which is your same knock against Anticipate. It's not free. It's cool that it generates mana when going off--but card quality is more often your bottleneck when going off, not mana. Anticipate is also much better when setting up or rebuilding.
I don't want a card that is at its best when I'm already winning. That's why I'm uninterested in both Wisps and Manamorphose.
Here are my thoughts on Anticipate vs Manamorphose (I haven't actually tested yet though so bear that in mind).
Assuming you have Jeskai Ascendancy in play, Anticipate is better when you have 2 dorks out because you will be able to dig deeper than Manamorphose and still be able to cast anything you draw. Manamorphose is better if you only have 1 dork out because it's a "free" spell that will let you start building mana faster then you can spend it, but you can also fizzle more easily since it only draws 1 card.
Does this assessment make sense or am I way off base?
Here are my thoughts on Anticipate vs Manamorphose (I haven't actually tested yet though so bear that in mind).
Assuming you have Jeskai Ascendancy in play, Anticipate is better when you have 2 dorks out because you will be able to dig deeper than Manamorphose and still be able to cast anything you draw. Manamorphose is better if you only have 1 dork out because it's a "free" spell that will let you start building mana faster then you can spend it, but you can also fizzle more easily since it only draws 1 card.
Does this assessment make sense or am I way off base?
I guess it really depends, sometimes generating more than 2 mana is pretty nice because then you can have some excess mana for some interaction with your opponent even if they try to kill a creature during combat or something.
Anyways, this is the list I run. Some extra ways to win with a Grapeshot and some View From Above. Faith's Shield is a great silver bullet to have, since we draw so many cards it's not too hard to find. Helps keep Ascendancy alive, or our creatures all for one mana! So good.
im not a big fan of your list because it looks clunky and inconsistent. you shouldn't run faithless looting, grape shot is ok but I haven't done enough testing with it to form a good opinion. I don't like faith's shield or view from above and I especially think view from above isn't needed whats so ever. I could see using faithless looting and maybe flame jab together but then might as well play the gifts ungiven version of the deck. I like that you are having fun with your sideboard and I personally like your inclusion of vexing shusher in it it looks fun, but You only need about half of those targets for glittering wish. You should run swan song or pact of negation in the board and some other cards like dreadbore to deal with Liliana and leyline of sanctity maybe.
U know what makes more than one mana per card? It's Fatestitcher. It can attack the same turn It enters battlefield, can clear blockers and even help fighting with countermagic and some hate! It also helps against Blood Moon since with Ascendancy in play u can Combo using basic island. When u start play it u won't use a card that looks 1 card deep and gives only +1 mana.
About the rest of your list it looks like u don't have to fight disruption and always draw 1 of 7 Ascendancies. In this ideal world your version will be better, but in real life u will need some ways to dig deeper to find missing combo piece after counter or discard,u will need something to fuel hand size during combo (no, Visions of Beyond is not good becouse it will draw 3 cards when u should already win) and finally u should need something to protect creatures (Spellskite, Swan Song or Silence). Please, just try to play magic not goldfish.
Well, here's the thing. With Ascendancy out, And a creature, you just go until you mill a fatestitcher and then the game is over if you have view from above, as you're just going to "Draw" your whole deck as need be and play all your glittering wishes to get cards in your board that are going to stop them from killing your creatures. It never runs clunky, and turn 2 wins aren't all that uncommon in the tournaments I've played
Grapeshot is also nice as you can sweep up any blockers they may have on the board, or cut your ascendancy triggers needed to win in half essentially.
I like grapeshot i tun 1 in the main. Its good if u run manamorphose and wisp since u can sometimes use it as a board wipe to relieve early pressure from decks like zoo or for wiping out eldrazi scions. Its also descent if something happens and u can only get 10 or 11 pumps since u can deal damage with the shot then combat.
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Modern:
UR Delver
Jeskai Glittering Storm
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It seems to me that the situation in which they have a Spellskite in play AND you can't win via the combat step by tapping down blockers with Fatestitcher would be so rare that it's not worth playing a hyperspecific card for. It's true that Spellskite shuts of Fatestitcher, but wishing for a removal spell seems better than 1-2 Twisted Image.
EDIT: As for flex spots, I have been enjoying 2 Izzet Charms--but I'd like to test Mentor in that spot as well. Spellskite is an interesting suggestion, to move from side to main. It's likely that Silence/Swan Song/Mentor/Izzet Charm/Spellskite/cantrips in that spot comes down to personal preference and your individual meta. Izzet Charm has been working well as a catch-all for me. Counters spells, kills hatebears, loots cards.
My cube thread!
With that in mind, I think i'm going to make some immediate changes, switching my list to this-
3 Fatestitcher
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Anticipate
4 Glittering Wish
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Mana Confluence
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Swan Song
2 Wear // Tear
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Scarscale Ritual
1 Guttural Response
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Flesh // Blood
1 Fiery Justice
I'm really on board with the main deck Spellskites. I'm gonna do some testing with these changes and see how it feels.
----
@Arkaedrian
Manamorphose is useless, Anticipate is great in all stages of the game. Pre combo it digs for Ascendancy, Wish, or Dorks, post combo it digs for gas to keep things rolling.
Visions of Beyond is useless. Even with Thought Scour getting 20 cards in your grave isn't as easy as it would seem, Pre combo it's just a vanilla cantrip, post combo it's still not guaranteed to be anything but a vanilla cantrip.
You want Fatestitcher in the deck. He makes comboing off much more consistent. He also lets you combo off from a board state of no creatures, or 1 creature a lot easier.
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Fatestitcher
2 Spellskite
4 Glittering Wish
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
1 Faithless Looting
4 Ideas Unbound
3 Anticipate
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Mana Confluence
1 Gemstone Mine
SB: 1 Jeskai Ascendancy
SB: 1 Scarscale Ritual
SB: 1 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Guttural Response
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 3 Swan Song
SB: 1 Spellskite
I'm still not sure if I should play 4/3 Ideas Unbound/Anticipate or 3/4 would be better. It's really hard to say, I have to test more.
I play 1 Faithless Looting main. Maybe you think that card disadvantage makes that card unplayable, but it has many upsides other 1 cmc cantrips don't have:
1. It can be easily discarded and later in case of fizzling it gives us to look at another 3 cards (Trigger + 2 from spell). Flashback is nice
2. It can draw 2 new cards, not just 1 like any other cantrip does. Useful against hand flooded with useless lands and mana dorks.
3. It can speed up Fatestitcher kill by discarding it before casting Ascendancy.
Despite many advantages I play only 1. This deck just can't card disadvantage itself. Drawing 1 is nearly always fine (at least it's great discard target, usefull when we have to combo from only 2 cards in hand)but multiples can be problematic.
Manabase is built around reducing damage taking from lands. 2 basic lands, 2 Grove of the Burnwillows and Gemstone Mine help a lot.
Building good Sidebaord (especially Wishboard) in my opinion it's very hard. We have to reduce sideboard slots dedicated to Wishboard to minimum. After a lot of testing I reduced from 11 to 6 slots:
Jeskai Ascendancy - obvious
Scarscale Riual - the cheapest option to draw more then 1 card from Glittering Wish
Guttural Repsonse - for countermagic, sometimes Vapor Snag
Slaughter Games - sometimes it's easier to stop opponents' combo than to kill with big Fatestitcher (great against Ad Nauseam, Goryo and other crazy combos). Sometimes can be used as expensive discard spell.
Wear/Tear - catch all answer. Good against Eidolons, Chalice of the Void, Blood Moon, Leylines, Pyromancer Ascension and so on. So good and universal that I play additional copy to side in.
Abrupt Decay - cheapest way to kill problematic creatures. Public enemies - Qasali Pridemage and Meddling Mage. Also it's good enough as catch all card, becomes better when I side in 2 Wear//Tears.
The rest slots have to be spent on the best cards avaible. They had to be good against more than 1 match up. Since we have good responses to permanent hate these 8 slots should be used to fight other ways to disrupt - countermagic and discard. The best options avaiable are Swan Songs (good against both countermagic and other combo decks) and Leyline of Sanctity (good against discard, Burn and random decks like UB Mill). In last slot I usually use another Spellskite - great sideboard card, good response to Abrupt Decay, Disenchant effects, burn spells and strategies like Infect or Bogles.
I don't play Flesh//Blood. 97,4% of time we can kill using Fatestitchers, in my opinion it's better to have additional slot in sideboard than have response for that 2,6% of situations.
As long as BGx is not deck to beat Jeskai combo will be good choice for tournaments.
6 "free" spells helps to go off on turn 2 or 3 very often. Anticipate is definitely better than Manamorphose. Also, Noxious Revival is amazing as someone had mentioned previously. It's a "free" spell that can let us go off T2, or get back a discarded/destroyed/countered Jeskai Ascendancy, or put a fetchland on top on our opponents library.
If I were to play Fatestitcher, I was thinking of cutting 1 Cerulean Wisps and 1 Anticipate/Ideas Unbound for two Fatestitcher
Thoughts?
3x City of Brass
3x Gemstone Mine
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Temple Garden
Creature (11)
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Glittering Wish
4x Ideas Unbound
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
Instant (10)
4x Anticipate
4x Cerulean Wisps
2x Noxious Revival
Enchantment (3)
3x Jeskai Ascendancy
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Flesh / Blood
1x Guttural Response
1x Jeskai Ascendancy
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Scarscale Ritual
2x Spellskite
3x Swan Song
1x Wear / Tear
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
My cube thread!
Also, Everyone in my area keeps telling me that Manamorphose is much better than Anticipate. I'm going to replace my 4x Anticipate and give it another shot, the more I think about it though the more it makes sense.
Also, have you guys seen this article from 2 weeks ago: Channel Fireball - Jeskai Ascendancy Storm
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
EFro's article is a solid intro for people new to the deck--it was actually a driving force for me to start testing it. I think it's important to stress that there is no "optimal" list that has been set in stone. Card choices and their numbers can be tweaked to preference and meta.
My cube thread!
I don't want a card that is at its best when I'm already winning. That's why I'm uninterested in both Wisps and Manamorphose.
My cube thread!
Assuming you have Jeskai Ascendancy in play, Anticipate is better when you have 2 dorks out because you will be able to dig deeper than Manamorphose and still be able to cast anything you draw. Manamorphose is better if you only have 1 dork out because it's a "free" spell that will let you start building mana faster then you can spend it, but you can also fizzle more easily since it only draws 1 card.
Does this assessment make sense or am I way off base?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
I guess it really depends, sometimes generating more than 2 mana is pretty nice because then you can have some excess mana for some interaction with your opponent even if they try to kill a creature during combat or something.
Anyways, this is the list I run. Some extra ways to win with a Grapeshot and some View From Above. Faith's Shield is a great silver bullet to have, since we draw so many cards it's not too hard to find. Helps keep Ascendancy alive, or our creatures all for one mana! So good.
1x Breeding Pool
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
3x Mana Confluence
4x Misty Rainforest
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
Creature (12)
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Fatestitcher
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Faithless Looting
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Glittering Wish
1x Grapeshot
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
Instant (10)
1x Anticipate
1x Faith's Shield
4x Manamorphose
2x Thought Scour
2x View from Above
Enchantment (3)
3x Jeskai Ascendancy
1x Guttural Response
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Deflecting Palm
1x Terminate
1x Vexing Shusher
1x Scarscale Ritual
3x Spellskite
1x Fiery Justice
1x Jeskai Ascendancy
1x Void Grafter
2x Wear // Tear
1x Flesh // Blood
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
About the rest of your list it looks like u don't have to fight disruption and always draw 1 of 7 Ascendancies. In this ideal world your version will be better, but in real life u will need some ways to dig deeper to find missing combo piece after counter or discard,u will need something to fuel hand size during combo (no, Visions of Beyond is not good becouse it will draw 3 cards when u should already win) and finally u should need something to protect creatures (Spellskite, Swan Song or Silence). Please, just try to play magic not goldfish.
Grapeshot is also nice as you can sweep up any blockers they may have on the board, or cut your ascendancy triggers needed to win in half essentially.
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
UR Delver
Jeskai Glittering Storm