I feel that with the amount of consistency in which we find our SB cards by churning through our deck, having the SB Madcap plan without a way to reshuffle is pretty risky, I'm of the opinion that this does not justify playing a slightly inferior card MD in See Beyond let alone as a 3-of. The invitational didn't have that many rounds of modern and it's possible he focused on winning against specific decks.
also that Hugo list is from August so I'm hesitant to play it against a slightly changed meta, but maybe he still is on the same 75 idk...
I've been talking to him on mtgo lately and for what he told me he has been on the same 75 since the league started, which means 16 trophies with the same list lol. But oddly enough he only got 1 5-0 posted on mtggoldfish...
I think the single 5-0 being posted is due to wizards seriously clamping down on the information that MTGO is allowed to disseminate to the public - each day you get five random X-0 lists from dailies, and none ofthem can be from the same archetype. So it's easily possible that he has all those 5-0's and only once was both A) storm picked as an archetype to submit a decklist on, and B) He gets picked as the storm player to be featured. Their logic is that the reason modern was so stale is because players "had too much information" and solved the format too quickly.
Re:See Beyond, it's an interesting card. Shuffling 1 card back can be relevant, sure, but being able to throw back a 6th land or a card you would rather gifts for than draw has its uses, and shufflinf the card back in makes it marginally more live than sticking it on bottom, if it's a card you might need later but for sure don't need now. I might play around with it.
The sideboard OTOH seems like a mess. I blame inbred meta syndrome but it's not anything I'd adovcate for a standard.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
What about pyromancer ascension? Seems like at the least a crapy exit to chalice. I thinkdesperate ravings is very good, even though its random, we are redundant, being instant with flashback is just so good, I dont mind one extra card in my hand and one in the yard...Its part of the plan actually.
I would say that whereas attrition makes it their mission to reveal your game and lines and actively dismantle them, control depends on blindly having the right answer at the right time. With that being said, games play out longer with a slower clock, and we have time to form a game plan and bait permission before we go off. Worst case scenario they answer it just as they would a Pieces, in an ok case you resolve in light of graveyard hate, but it is still card advantage, and best case they crack their gy hate or you bounce it and go off.
Hi all! New to the deck.
Can anyone give me an idea of how the deck manages to beat the top tiers.. or point me in a direction of a tutorial?
I believe the match up vs abzan type decks or burn is really dificult..
Really appreciate any help.
Thanks
Burn is possibly the hardest matchup, but burn isnt common. If it is common at your local game store, then you need to adjust accordingly and bring in some cards that most lists dont use.
Abzan is one of the harder MUs but not too bad. You have draw spells to help agains the discard, and if they dont have the graveyard hate, then its an insta win. Post board, its not too bad unless they start the game with 3 discard spells in hand and then resolve a Liliana turn 3. You can get a turn 2 or 3 Empty the Warrens with rituals, or a turn 2 Blood Moon if that is in your sideboard (They usually have greedy mana bases).
Against everything else, the deck is just fast and resilient unless people are specifically gunning for you, but we always have answers. Game 1, end of turn a resolved turn 3 ritual into Gifts Ungiven, or turn 4 Gifts usually just wins the game on the spot.
Google some channle fireball videos of people playing the deck to get the hang of it. Also, just practice all the time. Get MTGO or Cockatrice and practice, practice, practice. The deck is amazing
Toughts on Pithing Needle in the SB? I feel that it can come in handy especially since half of Tron's SB is to beat us. It also can be used in Affinity and Lantern. Typically these MUs have been good for us, but they are heavily sidboarding in stuff vs storm.
Another question is, what is our plan vs Scapeshift decks? I dont get what to do vs them besides pray you get the better draw
Pithing Needle doesn't seem like a good card, there's very few activated abilities that we care too much about. The biggest thing you could do is shut off a Liliana of the Veil in most cases.
Our plan against scapeshift is just play. This should be a matchup that is massively in our favor, their god draw is a half-turn faster than our normal draw, they have next to no interaction, and they have few if any ways to attack our gameplan. Good mulligan decisions is about the only thing you need to consider, but might as well bring in blood moons if they're in your board already.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Pithing Needle doesn't seem like a good card, there's very few activated abilities that we care too much about. The biggest thing you could do is shut off a Liliana of the Veil in most cases.
Our plan against scapeshift is just play. This should be a matchup that is massively in our favor, their god draw is a half-turn faster than our normal draw, they have next to no interaction, and they have few if any ways to attack our gameplan. Good mulligan decisions is about the only thing you need to consider, but might as well bring in blood moons if they're in your board already.
Pithing Needle gets rid of Relic of Progenitus, our main graveyard hate card. Yeah, we bring in Empty post board, but there still is so much hate against that strategy. Against Tron needle also turns off Ratchet Bomb
CHIH-CHENG YEH'S STORM, 17TH, GRAND PRIX OKLAHOMA CITY
DECKLIST STATS SAMPLE HAND
SORT BY:
Creature (8)
4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
4 Goblin Electromancer
Sorcery (12)
2 Grapeshot
2 Past in Flames
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
Instant (22)
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
1 Noxious Revival
4 Pyretic Ritual
2 Remand
Land (18)
1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Shivan Reef
4 Spirebluff Canal
3 Steam Vents
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
1 Lightning Bolt 1 Blood Moon 2 Dismember 2 Dispel 2 Empty the Warrens 4 Pieces of the Puzzle 2 Shattering Spree 1 Wipe Away
How about this 17th place storm list from GP Oklahoma City with mainboard Lightning Bolts? Looks like he went down a Grapeshot, a Remand, and opted for 0 copies of Opt in order to fit them in
Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer. I'm already on Caleb list and watching his videos.
Actually my community has a few burn and abzan players.. I'll see how it goes.
There is a tournament this weekend and I intend to assist, I'll report the results.
Thanks a bunch
You might want to main deck a lightning bolt or two. A resolved Eidolon of the Great Revel is game over a lot of the time
Tournament report and my sideboards: gp madrid 2017
My team mates plays uw control and infect.
List:
4x baral
4x goblin electromancer
4x serum visions
4x sleight of hand
1x noxious revival
4x pyretic ritual
4x desperate ritual
4x manamorphose
1x echoing truth
2x grapeshot
3x remand
1x pieces of the puzzle
4x gifts ungiven
2x past in flames
1x empty the warrens
4x scalding tarn
3x polluted delta
2x steam vents
4x spirebluff canal
2x island
1x snow covered island
1x mountain
Sideboard:
2x blood moon
1x wipe away
1x anger of the gods
2x swan song
3x lightning bolt
2x empty the warrens
2x pieces of the puzzle
2x shattering spree
Day 1 record (8-1)
R1 counters company: 2-0
G1 turn2 baral/goblin t3 standard win.
G2 with an eidolon of the rethoric on battlelfield do an gifts to echoing wipe away and noxious and win the next turn.
Side:
+3 lightning
+1 anger
+2 pieces
+2 swan song
+1 wipe
-2 gifts
-1 goblin electromancer
-2 pyretic ritual
-3 sleight of hand
-1 empty
Round 6: titanshif 2-0
Easy g1 remanding his sacapeshift and wining next turn, and g2 win with a t2 blood moonand my oponent without forest.
Sideboard:
+2 blood moon
+2 swan song
+1 pieces
+2 shattering
-1 gifts
-2 sleight
-2 pyretic
-1 empty
-1 echoing (i think they dont use leyline of sanctity)
Round 7: uw control 1-0
My teammates win so faster so i only play one game. I won this game because of land andvantage of oponents path to exiles.
Sideboard:
+2 swan song
+2 pieces
+2 blood moon
+1 wipe away
-1 gifts
-2 pyretic
-1 empty
-3 sleight
Round 8: eldrazi tron 2-0
I dont remember what happens but i think it was easy on g1 and more conplicated in g2 because of hate cards like chalices and cages:
Round 9: gx tron: 2-1
G1 my oponents do mulligan to 4 and i only see a forest and a chromatic sphere
G2 lose against t3 karn t4 worldbreaker
G3 win throw karn t3 bouncing my own electromancer to prevent karn effect. And wining next turn top decking a pieces.
Sideboard:
+2 blood moon
+2 pieces
+2 shattering
+1 wipe
-1 pyretic
-1 electromancer
-2 gifts
-2 sleight
-1 empty
I think that i sideboarded wrong, i have never played a mirror and i dont spect a long match, i sideboarded to win as faster as posible, and the game takes a lot of turns.
Round 11: humans 2-0.
G1 i win with a mulligan to 5 with t2 baral and t3 killing two 1/2 pirates (with a manamorphose and a gifts) with a grapeshot, and wining next turn.
And g2 lightning his noble on his t2, blood moon my t2 and anger on my t3.
Round 12 bant devoted 1-1
G1 lose against t2 devoted t3 vizier + ooze, and next turn he topdeck a chord
G2 win with t1 lightning to bird (to prevent eidolon t2) t2 baral, t3 win.
Here's a question: How can I beat you as UW control player? I have a *ton* of trouble with the match up and could use some pointers!
Thanks
Difficult one. depends on the sideboard plan your storm opponent brings. Usually going for the gy is a good call, but sometimes storm can cut that part of the deck entirely, cutting gifts for pieces of the puzzle, and removing noxious and Pif, and you will find yourself with few dead draws. Another option is to attack on the stack, with cheap counter magic aka dispel, or counterflux (the best answer) if youre on jeskai. The issue here is that gigadrowse can make counter magic really bad. Third option would be to bring in something like supreme veredict against EtW.
Best way to defeat storm would be early pressure (V clique) plus a mix of counter magic/ wrath effects/ gy hate (?). Then, some more specific hate cards can be game on the spot, like runned halo, meddling mage or rule of law/ eidolon of rethoric.
Thanks for the reply! I'll link my current list http://i65.tinypic.com/2na08c0.jpg
This isn't the finished list of course, just what I'm currently testing.
I'm on UW splashing green for Glittering Wish. I play mostly like a stock UW list with some extra silver bullets.
It's still a pretty miserable match for me. G1 my plan has been to try and counter as much as I can with my low cmc counters. An early wish can grab with Wheel of Sum and Moon or a Geist as an early threat.
G2 I bring out higher cmc spells (wrath, etc) for my various counters, RiP, and several of the wish threats. Usually leaving Geist and Wheel to be wished for. Celestial Purge comes in too, especially if I suspect a bloodmoon.
To the UW glittering wish control player, while I haven't played against your deck, I imagine that simply putting the card glittering wish in your deck, without a specific silver bullet to wish for in this matchup (wheel of sun and moon is ok but really overall weak graveyard hate vs. this deck) you're just going to be playing this clunky card in your hand every game that puts you down on tempo to play. Turn 2 wish into T3 geist might provide pressure but it also might just leave you dead since you lose a lot of tempo.
Simply put I don't think you're going to have a good matchup with this kind of glittering wish deck, perhaps if you could find a card that really hoses storm the glittering wishes really go up in value, otherwise I think you're just going to end up too far behind on tempo if your deck relies for the most part on glittering wish.
I am still looking for the list from Eli Kassis played at the last GP to top 16 finish. I dont like lists from special mixed events like the SCG Invitational.
In addition, I see lists with fecthes, and the one from Caleb does not have fetches. What is the reason behind this? Save life?
Fetchless makes your deck more consistent because when you are putting cards on the bottom of your library with Serum Visions and other cantrips, they dont get shuffled when you fetch. Your life total is better, Shattering Spree is better and you rather play that over By Force because you will have much more red sources. The drawback is you can't play Blood Moon, and opponent's Blood Moon can screw you. Those are just off the top of my head.
I personally started with the fetchless and changed back to fetch version. While there are a lot of pros for fetchless, I think that Blood Moon is just too important in certain matchup, though, is that its not good on the draw, I don't even bring it on on the draw against most decks. However, against Eldrazi and Taxes its our only way to change the matchup %.
While the life total will be less, its is only slightly less because we usually are fetching for Islands almost every time. Matchups where life really matters, like Burn and Affinity, I'd rather give up the small %. We are pretty good vs Affinity, and against burn its one of the worst matchups but the matchup is so bad anyways I dont really care . Plus the fact that Burn is actually not that common anymore, I'd rather have more game vs the other decks where Blood Moon can help; Against Eldrasi Taxes, its our saving grace, and sometimes a turn 2 or 3 Blood Moon can just win the game vs a ton of decks for us outright.
As for the more consistency, the main part that fetchless helps is getting to Pieces of the Puzzle or Empty the Warrens post board, and that's by far the biggest reason to run it. By turn 3 you have close to 100% chance to draw it if you used 1 or 2 cantrips the turns before. However, Fetches do slim the deck of lands, so you still are gaining small consistency there at least.
I think the single 5-0 being posted is due to wizards seriously clamping down on the information that MTGO is allowed to disseminate to the public - each day you get five random X-0 lists from dailies, and none ofthem can be from the same archetype. So it's easily possible that he has all those 5-0's and only once was both A) storm picked as an archetype to submit a decklist on, and B) He gets picked as the storm player to be featured. Their logic is that the reason modern was so stale is because players "had too much information" and solved the format too quickly.
Re:See Beyond, it's an interesting card. Shuffling 1 card back can be relevant, sure, but being able to throw back a 6th land or a card you would rather gifts for than draw has its uses, and shufflinf the card back in makes it marginally more live than sticking it on bottom, if it's a card you might need later but for sure don't need now. I might play around with it.
The sideboard OTOH seems like a mess. I blame inbred meta syndrome but it's not anything I'd adovcate for a standard.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Thanks
Lazy ^^
Burn is possibly the hardest matchup, but burn isnt common. If it is common at your local game store, then you need to adjust accordingly and bring in some cards that most lists dont use.
Abzan is one of the harder MUs but not too bad. You have draw spells to help agains the discard, and if they dont have the graveyard hate, then its an insta win. Post board, its not too bad unless they start the game with 3 discard spells in hand and then resolve a Liliana turn 3. You can get a turn 2 or 3 Empty the Warrens with rituals, or a turn 2 Blood Moon if that is in your sideboard (They usually have greedy mana bases).
Against everything else, the deck is just fast and resilient unless people are specifically gunning for you, but we always have answers. Game 1, end of turn a resolved turn 3 ritual into Gifts Ungiven, or turn 4 Gifts usually just wins the game on the spot.
Google some channle fireball videos of people playing the deck to get the hang of it. Also, just practice all the time. Get MTGO or Cockatrice and practice, practice, practice. The deck is amazing
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Another question is, what is our plan vs Scapeshift decks? I dont get what to do vs them besides pray you get the better draw
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Our plan against scapeshift is just play. This should be a matchup that is massively in our favor, their god draw is a half-turn faster than our normal draw, they have next to no interaction, and they have few if any ways to attack our gameplan. Good mulligan decisions is about the only thing you need to consider, but might as well bring in blood moons if they're in your board already.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Pithing Needle gets rid of Relic of Progenitus, our main graveyard hate card. Yeah, we bring in Empty post board, but there still is so much hate against that strategy. Against Tron needle also turns off Ratchet Bomb
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
How about this 17th place storm list from GP Oklahoma City with mainboard Lightning Bolts? Looks like he went down a Grapeshot, a Remand, and opted for 0 copies of Opt in order to fit them in
You might want to main deck a lightning bolt or two. A resolved Eidolon of the Great Revel is game over a lot of the time
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
My team mates plays uw control and infect.
List:
4x baral
4x goblin electromancer
4x serum visions
4x sleight of hand
1x noxious revival
4x pyretic ritual
4x desperate ritual
4x manamorphose
1x echoing truth
2x grapeshot
3x remand
1x pieces of the puzzle
4x gifts ungiven
2x past in flames
1x empty the warrens
4x scalding tarn
3x polluted delta
2x steam vents
4x spirebluff canal
2x island
1x snow covered island
1x mountain
Sideboard:
2x blood moon
1x wipe away
1x anger of the gods
2x swan song
3x lightning bolt
2x empty the warrens
2x pieces of the puzzle
2x shattering spree
Day 1 record (8-1)
R1 counters company: 2-0
G1 turn2 baral/goblin t3 standard win.
G2 with an eidolon of the rethoric on battlelfield do an gifts to echoing wipe away and noxious and win the next turn.
Side:
+3 lightning
+1 anger
+2 pieces
+2 swan song
+1 wipe
-2 gifts
-1 goblin electromancer
-2 pyretic ritual
-3 sleight of hand
-1 empty
Round 2 elves 2-0
No problem in this matchup.
Sideboard:
+3 lightning
+1 anger
+1 wipe away
+2 pieces
-1 electromancer
-1 pyretic
-2 gifts
-2 sleight
-1 empty
Round 3: ponza 2-1
G2 an g3 were problematic, my oponent plays a triniesphere on t2.
Sideboard:
+1 wipe away
+2 shattering spree
+2 pieces
-2 gifts
-2 sleight
-1 electromancer (no lightnings)
Round 4 merfolks 2-0 no problem g1 he mulligans to 5 and g2 y win with empty with storm 5 in t2
Sideboard:
+2 empty
+1 anger
+2 pieces
-2 gifts
-1 electro
-2 sleight
Round 5: affinity
G1 lose because i did a mulligan to 5, g2 easy win and g3 lose by a galbanic top deck.
Sideboard
+3 lightning
+1 anger
+1 wipe
+2 shattering spree
-1 pyretic
-2 gifts
-1 sleight
-3 remand
Round 6: titanshif 2-0
Easy g1 remanding his sacapeshift and wining next turn, and g2 win with a t2 blood moonand my oponent without forest.
Sideboard:
+2 blood moon
+2 swan song
+1 pieces
+2 shattering
-1 gifts
-2 sleight
-2 pyretic
-1 empty
-1 echoing (i think they dont use leyline of sanctity)
Round 7: uw control 1-0
My teammates win so faster so i only play one game. I won this game because of land andvantage of oponents path to exiles.
Sideboard:
+2 swan song
+2 pieces
+2 blood moon
+1 wipe away
-1 gifts
-2 pyretic
-1 empty
-3 sleight
Round 8: eldrazi tron 2-0
I dont remember what happens but i think it was easy on g1 and more conplicated in g2 because of hate cards like chalices and cages:
Sideboard:
+2 blood moon
+2 shattering
+1 wipe away
-1 electromancer
-2 sleight
-2 pyretic
Round 9: gx tron: 2-1
G1 my oponents do mulligan to 4 and i only see a forest and a chromatic sphere
G2 lose against t3 karn t4 worldbreaker
G3 win throw karn t3 bouncing my own electromancer to prevent karn effect. And wining next turn top decking a pieces.
Sideboard:
+2 blood moon
+2 pieces
+2 shattering
+1 wipe
-1 pyretic
-1 electromancer
-2 gifts
-2 sleight
-1 empty
Day 2: record 1-1-1 drop
Round 10: mirror 0-2
Sideboard:
+3 lightning
+2 pieces
+2 swan song
-1 echoing
-1 empty
-4 sleight
-1 pyretic
I think that i sideboarded wrong, i have never played a mirror and i dont spect a long match, i sideboarded to win as faster as posible, and the game takes a lot of turns.
Round 11: humans 2-0.
G1 i win with a mulligan to 5 with t2 baral and t3 killing two 1/2 pirates (with a manamorphose and a gifts) with a grapeshot, and wining next turn.
And g2 lightning his noble on his t2, blood moon my t2 and anger on my t3.
Sideboard:
+3 lightning
+1 anger
+2 blood moon
+2 pieces
-3 remand
-1 sleight
-2 gifts
-1 pyretic
Round 12 bant devoted 1-1
G1 lose against t2 devoted t3 vizier + ooze, and next turn he topdeck a chord
G2 win with t1 lightning to bird (to prevent eidolon t2) t2 baral, t3 win.
Sideboard:
The same as round 1.
Thanks for the reply! I'll link my current list http://i65.tinypic.com/2na08c0.jpg
This isn't the finished list of course, just what I'm currently testing.
I'm on UW splashing green for Glittering Wish. I play mostly like a stock UW list with some extra silver bullets.
It's still a pretty miserable match for me. G1 my plan has been to try and counter as much as I can with my low cmc counters. An early wish can grab with Wheel of Sum and Moon or a Geist as an early threat.
G2 I bring out higher cmc spells (wrath, etc) for my various counters, RiP, and several of the wish threats. Usually leaving Geist and Wheel to be wished for. Celestial Purge comes in too, especially if I suspect a bloodmoon.
There usually isn't a game 3 for me though..
Simply put I don't think you're going to have a good matchup with this kind of glittering wish deck, perhaps if you could find a card that really hoses storm the glittering wishes really go up in value, otherwise I think you're just going to end up too far behind on tempo if your deck relies for the most part on glittering wish.
Fetchless makes your deck more consistent because when you are putting cards on the bottom of your library with Serum Visions and other cantrips, they dont get shuffled when you fetch. Your life total is better, Shattering Spree is better and you rather play that over By Force because you will have much more red sources. The drawback is you can't play Blood Moon, and opponent's Blood Moon can screw you. Those are just off the top of my head.
I personally started with the fetchless and changed back to fetch version. While there are a lot of pros for fetchless, I think that Blood Moon is just too important in certain matchup, though, is that its not good on the draw, I don't even bring it on on the draw against most decks. However, against Eldrazi and Taxes its our only way to change the matchup %.
While the life total will be less, its is only slightly less because we usually are fetching for Islands almost every time. Matchups where life really matters, like Burn and Affinity, I'd rather give up the small %. We are pretty good vs Affinity, and against burn its one of the worst matchups but the matchup is so bad anyways I dont really care . Plus the fact that Burn is actually not that common anymore, I'd rather have more game vs the other decks where Blood Moon can help; Against Eldrasi Taxes, its our saving grace, and sometimes a turn 2 or 3 Blood Moon can just win the game vs a ton of decks for us outright.
As for the more consistency, the main part that fetchless helps is getting to Pieces of the Puzzle or Empty the Warrens post board, and that's by far the biggest reason to run it. By turn 3 you have close to 100% chance to draw it if you used 1 or 2 cantrips the turns before. However, Fetches do slim the deck of lands, so you still are gaining small consistency there at least.
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]